Night Vision COTI

[Geeb]

Looking for a real world assessment of detection range on the COTI system. Will be used for coyote hunting in Georgia, so it will mostly be utilized in small fields and thick'ish timber, but occasionally on power line right of ways and larger fields that have line of sight of at least 1k yards.
From what I've been able to dig up I think the useful range of detecting coyotes would be 300 - 400 yards, but real world knowledge is more useful than a magazine article. Thanks.

 

[TheGerman]

By detection, are you asking at what range you can PID that its a person/deer/coyote, or at what range will it still show that there is something there that you would have othewise never picked up?

For recognizing what you are looking at and being able to make a PID of human versus animal or deer vs coyote, its around 300 or so. Then again the COTI is 1x just like your PVS14 so really think about just how things being 300-400 yards from you even in the day can easily lose a bit of 'focus'.

For general detection that there is something there that you would have missed with NV alone due to shadow, being behind a bush or it not having enough of an outline versus its surroundings, the COTI will get a hit at out past 600 yards.

 

[wigwamitus]

In for a penny in for a pound ... here is my setup for "roaming overwatch" ... moving from position to position ... and using the tripod for overwatch. I need to add an aiming laser to this mk11-ish ... as the primary power of the coti is enabling snap shots out to about 150yds ... standing unsupported.

PVS-14 + COTI on dominant eye for navigation and snap shot support

IR-Patrol on non-dominant eye for long distance detection/PID

I usually use that helmet setup with a carbine and all my carbines have aiming lasers.

 

[Geeb]

By detection, are you asking at what range you can PID that its a person/deer/coyote, or at what range will it still show that there is something there that you would have othewise never picked up?

For recognizing what you are looking at and being able to make a PID of human versus animal or deer vs coyote, its around 300 or so. Then again the COTI is 1x just like your PVS14 so really think about just how things being 300-400 yards from you even in the day can easily lose a bit of 'focus'.

For general detection that there is something there that you would have missed with NV alone due to shadow, being behind a bush or it not having enough of an outline versus its surroundings, the COTI will get a hit at out past 600 yards.

I use a reap on my rifle, so I am more concerned about detection while moving from one calling position to another.
So I suppose like you stated 'something there that you would have missed with NV alone'. With 600 yards being the case, it's much more capable than I had anticipated.
I have been debating on buying an armasight q14, flir breach, or a COTI (to go on my PVS-14) on one eye and a buying another PVS-14 for the other eye. Or getting rid of the PVS-14 and going to an anvis type setup (but I'm not even sure if a Coti will mount on an anvis setup).
I must have misread something on another website, as I thought the COTI actually had an 2x internal zoom, is that not the case?

 

[Geeb]

In for a penny in for a pound ... here is my setup for "roaming overwatch" ... moving from position to position ... and using the tripod for overwatch. I need to add an aiming laser to this mk11-ish ... as the primary power of the coti is enabling snap shots out to about 150yds ... standing unsupported.

PVS-14 + COTI on dominant eye for navigation and snap shot support

IR-Patrol on non-dominant eye for long distance detection/PID

I usually use that helmet setup with a carbine and all my carbines have aiming lasers.

Would it be a safe assumption that you wouldn't use the PVS-14/COTI as your primary detection method? I would like to do an IR-patrol / PVS/14 but the patrol is a little more than I'm looking to spend right now.

 

[TheGerman]

I use a reap on my rifle, so I am more concerned about detection while moving from one calling position to another.
So I suppose like you stated 'something there that you would have missed with NV alone'. With 600 yards being the case, it's much more capable than I had anticipated.
I have been debating on buying an armasight q14, flir breach, or a COTI (to go on my PVS-14) on one eye and a buying another PVS-14 for the other eye. Or getting rid of the PVS-14 and going to an anvis type setup (but I'm not even sure if a Coti will mount on an anvis setup).
I must have misread something on another website, as I thought the COTI actually had an 2x internal zoom, is that not the case?

For what you're wanting to do the COTI is exactly what you are looking for.

Either a single PVS14 with the COTI on it will do it, or duals plus the COTI, either way.

The COTI is 1x as its an overlay on a 1x sight (PVS14, ANVIS, etc).

If you are looking to buy a new COTI IM me.

 

[wigwamitus]

... so it will mostly be utilized in small fields and thick'ish timber, but occasionally on power line right of ways and larger fields that have line of sight of at least 1k yards ...

Small fields with thick'ish timber ... no problem ... 1k+ fields ... hold up the REAP.

... Would it be a safe assumption that you wouldn't use the PVS-14/COTI as your primary detection method? ...

You use the word DETECTION ... and I would say the PVS-14/COTI is primary detection WHEN MOVING. But not when stationary. Then I use Mk3 60mm on carbine or other weapons mounted thermal.

... I use a reap on my rifle, so I am more concerned about detection while moving from one calling position to another ...

14/COTI great for detection while moving. REAP is primary when stationary. In your 1k+ fields, you might need to stop now and then and check with the REAP. But anything close enough to shoot will be picked up by the 14/COTI.

For general detection that there is something there that you would have missed with NV alone due to shadow, being behind a bush or it not having enough of an outline versus its surroundings, the COTI will get a hit at out past 600 yards.

I agree with this ... though "it depends" ... is still there ... I've been able to see cattle out to 800yds ... but I can also see "rocks" at 400yds and if I don't already know "rocks are there" then I might notbe be sure whether it is a critter or a rock (boulder). So I have to stop moving and watch to see if the hot shape moves.

 

[Geeb]

Small fields with thick'ish timber ... no problem ... 1k+ fields ... hold up the REAP.



You use the word DETECTION ... and I would say the PVS-14/COTI is primary detection WHEN MOVING. But not when stationary. Then I use Mk3 60mm on carbine or other weapons mounted thermal.



14/COTI great for detection while moving. REAP is primary when stationary. In your 1k+ fields, you might need to stop now and then and check with the REAP. But anything close enough to shoot will be picked up by the 14/COTI.

Having to scan with the rifle mounted thermal (rather stationary or moving) is exactly what I am trying to avoid...it drives me nuts to come off the PVS-14 hold the rifle up to scan and then continue on while walking.

I also despise using my rifle as a scanner not only for safety reasons; but also the fact that is just flat not comfortable to scan with the rifle for an extended period of time. I do put the rifle on a tripod, but just scanning with something helmet mounted would be much preferred for me. Thank you guys for your time

 

[CBDR]

Last nights venture into the swamp. Same story different location, (shut-out). Max range of open shooting area 50 yards. Coyotes running circles around me. New area is ripe with insects, reptiles & swine. Shooting off the roof of the jeep still a work in progress. Temperatures under the canopy feels 20 degrees cooler. Humidly level so high the thermal was useless. Adapting to this new close in engagement is a whole new ball game.

 

[wigwamitus]

...
Having to scan with the rifle mounted thermal (rather stationary or moving) is exactly what I am trying to avoid...it drives me nuts to come off the PVS-14 hold the rifle up to scan and then continue on while walking.

Haha ... I've been holding up the rifle to scan for years ... though I was probably already NUTS !!!

Being NUTS is not so bad ... I bet you could get used to it ..

==

Well .. if you want long distance scanning (and PID) on your head ... then IR Patrol (or Skeet IR when we can get them) ... or PAS-23 ... the 23 and Patrol have 3x Germanium magnifiers available ...

If you really want long distance scanning while moving ... hands free .. then you need one of the more powerful units on your head. Of course, everyone tells me I'm NUTS for wanting that and doing that !!!

The COTI will give you detection out to 600yds ... and depending on the situation, further out ... and will give you snap shot capability with an aiming laser out to however far you can hit the size target you are going after from standing unsupported.

I use all combinations depending on what I am doing. The 14/COTI on one eye and the Patrol (or Skeet or ODIN) on the other, gives me hands free long distance spotter hands free on my head, while rolling on 4-wheeler ... or walking ... the coti gives me snap shot capability with laser on carbines. For minimalist setup ... just 14/coti and carbine ...

But you said Patrol was too much $$ ... so consider pas-23 + coti ... you can probably get both for the price of one patrol.

... I also despise using my rifle as a scanner not only for safety reasons; but also the fact that is just flat not comfortable to scan with the rifle for an extended period of time ...

I've heard a lot of people despising ... maybe I used to ... but I got over it ... as to comfort, I worked out a way to make it comfortable .. I can hold up for most of an hour ... without issue .. here's how.

Use a 10 inch carbine ... i.e. a mk18-ish ... mine has had a mk2/3 35mm/60mm on it since Feb 2016 ... I stole this idea from the olympic kids ... I put my elbows on my chest ... My support hand is on the rear most portion underside of the fore arm. palm up ... the carbine forearm is resting on the face up palm. On the other side, I use a 30rd mag and my hand is around the 30rd mag with the trigger guard on top of my hand. This distributes a lot of weight from my arms to my chest. If one arm gets tired, I can shift more weight to the other. I can move like this as well. I can do 360s while moving like this. I wasn't always able to ... but I wanted it to work real bad ... so I kept at it ... I flushed the despise and the discomfort ideas down the water closet ... and made it work for me.

I'm not saying that works in all situations .. but it works for patrolling around in those small fields and wooded areas you were talking about ... I do a lot of that on my land. For larger pastures ... I've got a real rifle and a real tripod ... and I'm heading to a likely spot to overwatch. And unless I take two guns (which I do now and then) ... I cannot do snap shots while moving. I have a carry pack ... and I can take a carbine ... or a pistol (all my carbines and pistols have aiming lasers) while moving ... and then setup out of the pack when arriving. Or if I have a buddy, one of us is carbine/snap shot man ... and the other is rifle/tripod man with no snap shot. So for longer distances ... more helmet mounted thermals ... for shorter distances, holding up works for me.

If you want long distance thermal hands free while moving ... and snapshot ... then you need two widgets for that. The PAs23 are half the cost of the patrol, but can't do snap shots (requires fusion to do snap shots). If you want snap shots while moving .. only COTI (or equivalent) can do that. COTI can do detection out to 600 ... but as German says, PID more like 300 ... so if you want to beat that, then 23 or patrol. Or 23 and COTI. That's the cheapest way into both right now if you want hands free while moving.

==
Pics

mk3 60mm in "hold up scanner" configuration

Rifle in Carry pack

Rifle on Tripod ... with cattle blocking LOF !!!

Rifle setup for night work (off tripod)

 

[wigwamitus]

... Humidly level so high the thermal was useless ...

Did you crank up the contrast ???