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Range Report Could my 260 need a new barrel before 1300rds?

L

LR338nut

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jan 13, 2009
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51
Umitilla County, Or
Took out my competition rifle yeasterday to check my zero for a upcomming match. Its a Sako 75 260rem in a McMillan A5 and NXS 5.5-22X56. Im shooting 140SMK's at 2750, and have just under 1300rds through it.
This set up has always given me 5rd groups that are a ragged hole at 100yds, untill yesterday. I shot 6, 5 round, groups and not one measured under 1in at 100yds. Some were closer to 2in than 1in.
I cant figure it out. I checked the action bolts and all the mount and ring bolts, which were all fine. Cleaned it again. Shot a different lot of my loads. Nothing made any difference.
So, could my barrel (with less than 1300rds) be burned out already?
 
Re: Could my 260 need a new barrel before 1300rds?

The throat may have moved out of range of where that bullet jumps well. Try measuring the BTO again and seating the bullet out further.
 
Re: Could my 260 need a new barrel before 1300rds?

The rounds are already loaded at max oal for the mag. Cant go any longer without it becoming a single shot.
 
Re: Could my 260 need a new barrel before 1300rds?

Might just be a case of "Damn it's cold out here and I can't quit shaking and the gun wants to go back inside where it's warm" thing?

I'd try again and see if it's still doing it later.

Topstrap
 
Re: Could my 260 need a new barrel before 1300rds?

It went from good to bad in how many rounds? Barrels usually don´t go bad from one rond to another.

There are some good advice here already, mabye a carbon ring or just a bad day at the range from the cold? But the same thing happend to me recently with a Sako L691 in 6.5x55 swede, like 2 inches at 100m. Turned out that my barrel had come loose!! Not so loose you could spinn if of the action with your hands, but it took almost no effort at all with a wrench over the action. Tightened it back upp and the rifle went back to all shots touching at 100m.
 
Re: Could my 260 need a new barrel before 1300rds?

Just returned from the range and still having problems. Same weather today, 40deg and sunny, and no wind.
I just noticed this problem 2 days ago, seems like accuracy was lost overnight with this one.
Cleaned the hell out of the rifle, chamber and barrel, no improvement.
Put another scope on the rife,checked parallax, no improvement.
Started to think it was me, but my 308 and 300 I brought with me both shot sub 1/2 MOA at 200yds. The 260 on the other hand is holding 1 1/2-2 MOA at 100yds.
Im about ready to make it a expensive tomato stake!
 
Re: Could my 260 need a new barrel before 1300rds?

Couple more questions just in case.

Does your rifle always shoot just as well clean vs. fouled ?
I've had one that took about 25 rounds to get back to where it would shoot tight groups after a "good" cleaning.

Did anything change in the reloading process ? Different lot of powder or bullets ?
Different lot number of either one can change how your results are.

Scope base and action torqued correctly ?

Not saying that any of this is the case but could be things to confirm just to be sure.
 
Re: Could my 260 need a new barrel before 1300rds?

+1 on making sure everything is torqued up, including that barrel as Blank from SWE suggested.

Try putting the scope that is on your 308 or 300 and see what the 260 does with a different optic. Maybe the scope is KO'ed?
 
Re: Could my 260 need a new barrel before 1300rds?

After the cleaning it will take some settling to come back in.

Check the crown for damage.

Was it the same lot of powder?

As Graham said, check the throat. It may have moved. Though with 142s, a rifle tends to be quite jump tolerant.
 
Re: Could my 260 need a new barrel before 1300rds?

I am not sure if this information helps much; however, I got over 8000 rounds out of my 260 barrel. I was shooting 139 grain Lapua being propelled by 43 grains of IMR4350.

What limited experience I have had with shot out barrels, I would have to agree with Blank... That they just don't go bad from one round to another.

I like the idea of swapping scope and making sure everything is torqued down correctly. I also like the idea of you going to the range with another person you know is a good shooter. (No offense) however, maybe your shooting technique has become sloppy and that is the reason why your groups have opened up.

I can tell you on my way of getting 8000+ rounds out of my 260 barrel, there was more than one occassion that I thought the barrel was shot out....only to have a fellow Hide member cluster 5 shot groups at 100+ yards. Each time it was the shooter (me) that was causing the group to open up and not the barrel.
 
Re: Could my 260 need a new barrel before 1300rds?

Any chance you're using some very work hardened brass ?

I had similar issues with my 6.5CM @ about 1800 rounds. It just shot like crap. I ended up sending my brass to a hide member here to anneal it. The next loading it printed 1/4 - 1/3 MOA groups.

Just a thought. If you have some new brass that might help?
 
Re: Could my 260 need a new barrel before 1300rds?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AtOne</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does your rifle always shoot just as well clean vs. fouled ?
Did anything change in the reloading process ? Different lot of powder or bullets ?
Scope base and action torqued correctly ?
</div></div>
The rife has always shot its best clean, accuracy still under 1/2MOA after 100rds with out cleaning.
The components are all from the same lot, I buy in bulk.
Checked all the bolts with my torque wrench, everything is fine.
I dont have any way to check if the barrel is still tight. Would my headspace be off if it were loose? If so would I be able to measure it on fired brass?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JamesBailey
Try putting the scope that is on your 308 or 300 and see what the 260 does with a different optic. Maybe the scope is KO'ed?
[/quote</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I tried this too yeasterday, no change in groups with other scopes.

tylerw02 said:
Check the crown for damage. </div></div>
It has a muzzle break, so I doubt the crown could have been damaged. I clean with Dewy rods, brass jags, and bore guide.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TBass</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I also like the idea of you going to the range with another person you know is a good shooter. (No offense) however, maybe your shooting technique has become sloppy and that is the reason why your groups have opened up. </div></div>
I shot great groups from my other rifles, sub 1/2moa at 200yds, so I cant believe that Im screwing up my technique when I shoot the 260.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dvdt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any chance you're using some very work hardened brass ?</div></div>
The brass that I was shooting the past few days is Lapua and its only on its 3rd load. I also anneal all my brass every other time I load it.

I really appriciate all the feed back. But I still dont see what could be the problem. I guess I will take it to a gunsmith and see if the throat is gone, or the barrel is loose. Maybe have it rechambered? I kind of like the 260AI anyhow.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Could my 260 need a new barrel before 1300rds?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TBass</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
What limited experience I have had with shot out barrels, I would have to agree with Blank... That they just don't go bad from one round to another.
</div></div>
Unless you're really horsing the piss out of it, the throat should still be in goood shape.
I qouted TBass, just to say my experience was the total opposite. One afternoon my gun, a 7mm saum, went from hitting a full size IPSC at 1450 yards to shooting a 30 foot group in just a matter of a couple rounds. I had 850 rds through it, just thought it needed cleaning, wrong, I pumped another 100rds through it before I woke up switched bullets.
Throat was totaly gone, with a Berger hybrid, I managed to get 1K rds through before I set the barrel back. Another 1k after before rebarrling.
 
Re: Could my 260 need a new barrel before 1300rds?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: milo-2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TBass</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
What limited experience I have had with shot out barrels, I would have to agree with Blank... That they just don't go bad from one round to another.
</div></div>
Unless you're really horsing the piss out of it, the throat should still be in goood shape.
I qouted TBass, just to say my experience was the total opposite. One afternoon my gun, a 7mm saum, went from hitting a full size IPSC at 1450 yards to shooting a 30 foot group in just a matter of a couple rounds. I had 850 rds through it, just thought it needed cleaning, wrong, I pumped another 100rds through it before I woke up switched bullets.
Throat was totaly gone, with a Berger hybrid, I managed to get 1K rds through before I set the barrel back. Another 1k after before rebarrling. </div></div>

I dont think my loads are that hot. 140Gr SMK, 43.8gr H4350, Lapua brass neck sized, Fed 210M. This chrony's at 2750fps from a 24" barrel. I know a lot of guys shooting 6.5X284 start to shop for new barrels arround 1000rds, but I dont think Im pushing mine fast enough to have burrned out my throat all ready.
 
Re: Could my 260 need a new barrel before 1300rds?

You shouldn't be hurting anything at 2750, kinda mild in my opinion.
Unless your firing 20-30 rd strings in succesion, this can warm a throat up in no time. I sat and watched a smith waste a throat in 10 minutes, 50 rds, 6.5x47 Lapua. Built it for a comp, the guy that shot it never stood a chance, foolish shit!
My advice would be to find someone with a borescope, check it out. Thurough cleaning might help. Gotta hate this don't ya?
Your comment about the crown being bad, have a brake on it.
If your using a .22 cal rod, your jag very well could be pinging the rifleing coming back into the barrel. Something to look at. I have brakes on my 6.5'S also, but pull the jag before re-entry.
 
Re: Could my 260 need a new barrel before 1300rds?

Didnt read through all of the thread so this may be a double tap...

You said you have a muzzle brake, I have seen many false crowns cause a horrible drop in accuracy. Check for build up on the crown.
 
Re: Could my 260 need a new barrel before 1300rds?

The crown is still the crown, whether or not a muzzle brake is present. It still needs to be checked for wear, damage, and the brake for concentricity issues. Uneven carbon buildup on the barrel face inside the brake can degrade accuracy.

One of the drawbacks with the .260 is the tendency for throat wear to require bullet seating beyond the point where magazine feeding is feasible. The 6.5CM has an edge in this department. The 140SMK, as opposed to the 142SMK, has a shorter overall length, and is one of my own stratagems toward building a .260 load that will feed from magazines. But I also think the SMK's are more tolerant of jump.

43.8gr of H-4350 is my own load with the 140, 142gr SMK and A-Max; generating 2800fps or so from my 28" barrel. I consider it to be about as heavy a load as I'd like to use with those bullets. I don't think your throat should be getting fried by it, but I won't rule that out.

When accuracy suddenyly jumps one way ot the other, I look for something coming loose.

If this were a Savage, I'd be suggesting you check the barrel nut for backoff, the recoil lug for solidity, and the bedding for degradation.

Greg
 
Re: Could my 260 need a new barrel before 1300rds?

Before you send it to a gunsmith, I suggest you try some factory match grade ammo, such as that sold by Southwest Ammo. This will confirm that you have a rifle vice a reloading problem, and it could save you a bit of money. Perhaps you might want to shoot some groups without the muzzle brake on as well.
 
Re: Could my 260 need a new barrel before 1300rds?

Try a different known good optic. Try a different known good shooter. If still no better results, do a multi-day cleaning with TM solution or Wipe-out Patch out. Let it sit at least 6 hours between applications. Agitate with a plastic brush 10 strokes, let sit, patch out, repeat, for several days. Finish with a patch wrapped worn brush, short stroking with JB Bore Paste over the first 8 inches past the chamber.

If the accuracy comes back, but then goes away shortly, then you have a soft barrel.

Finding someone with a bore scope nearby is a good idea too.

It is not uncommon for bad barrels to be gone that quickly.
 
Re: Could my 260 need a new barrel before 1300rds?

All of the above input is good, but you'll need to do one at a time to eliminate variables; just like working up a good load changing only one variable at a time.

If I were you:

1. Clean the barrel reeaally well.

Shooter's Choice on patches till no powder fouling, Bronze brush for 10 strokes wetting after every 5, patch out with Shooter's Choice until you see copper. Use Wipe Out or Gunslick foam at this point till copper is gone.

Then at this point you need to JB the bore really well to remove the carbon. Have you ever done the JB treatment? Every couple of hundred rounds. If you have never JB'd your bore, you have a carbon build up problem.

2. Go shoot some groups with your existing ammo and see if accuracy has returned. If so, you're done. If not, proceed to step 3

3. You may need to re-develop the load. If it is already at magazine length, keep the same OAL and run a little development ladder around your existing charge. If you have had some throat wear, you will probably find accuracy at a little higher charge weight.

4. Scopes do take Schitts. Try a proven scope from one of your other rifles if all of this fails.

5. Re-barrel if all of the above fails


I'm betting on the JB to solve your problem...
 
Re: Could my 260 need a new barrel before 1300rds?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KNIGHT11B4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You said you have a muzzle brake, I have seen many false crowns cause a horrible drop in accuracy. Check for build up on the crown.</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The crown is still the crown, whether or not a muzzle brake is present. It still needs to be checked for wear, damage, and the brake for concentricity issues. Uneven carbon buildup on the barrel face inside the brake can degrade accuracy.</div></div>

I think this might be the problem. I took off the break and discovered carbon on the crown that was 1/16" thick and it looked like the bullets were touching it on exit. I cant believe how much carbon there was, there was quite a bit inside the break too. I also cleaned the the barrel again, this time using wipe-out.

Now that I have cleaned all the carbon off the crown and break I plan to take it back to the range tomorrow.

Thanks again for all the help so far. Hope to have a good range report tomorrow.
 
Re: Could my 260 need a new barrel before 1300rds?

Regarding the scope - unless something inside of it came loose, how can it suddenly <span style="font-weight: bold">increase</span> the group size, rather than just offset the POI?
 
Re: Could my 260 need a new barrel before 1300rds?

Problem solved.
Just returned from the range and she is shooting bugholes again.
Thanks for all the help.
 
Re: Could my 260 need a new barrel before 1300rds?

Gotta love these forums. I would have taken it to a smith and been out, who knows how much cash?....
 
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