Craddock v. JP

[Smitty192]

I am in the market for a new AR barrel chambered in 308. I am finally going to make an investment in a high end barrel.

Bartlein by Craddock 10T or JP Super Match 11.25T

600 yard maximum range
Target and some local club PRS matches

And...go

 

[black max]

Bartlein by Craddock, hands down. No way in hell would I pay JP prices for one of their barrels.

 

[MPDS13]

I do not have any first hand experience with JP barrels. But, I have had several Craddock Bartlein barrels that were amazing and accurate as hell.

 

[502Chevelle]

Yes, JP prices are high, but I’ve never seen quality come cheap. Argue this all you want, I have several JP barrels, and they all shoot great. Won’t knock anything by Craddock, especially a Bartlein, but don’t count JP out. This is 4 shots out of a plain old 223 barrel from JP, fired at 500 yards. I’ll take it. Pics are on my phone, posting in just a moment.

 

[502Chevelle]

 

[Smitty192]

I found a JP barrel / bolt combo for a little over $400 - 20" heavy contour 11.25T. I have read a quite a few good review and some so-so reviews and a few bad ones. On the other hand...everything written about Craddock Precision is stellar. The price point on the JP is very appealing.

 

[lennyo3034]

I’ve had two of each. Neither JP barrels were anything special. Craddock Bartliens shoot amazingly:

 

[TRG65]

My AR has a JP barrel lightweight profile. My GAP10 has a Bartlein heavy. I will replace the JP with a Kreiger or Bartlein. I had lots of problems finding accurate loads from my rifle that has the JP, that rifle is a .9 MOA 5 shot gun. The GAP is .6.

 

[Smitty192]

My AR has a JP barrel lightweight profile. My GAP10 has a Bartlein heavy. I will replace the JP with a Kreiger or Bartlein. I had lots of problems finding accurate loads from my rifle that has the JP, that rifle is a .9 MOA 5 shot gun. The GAP is .6.

That was the trouble I read about. Most people that had issues with JP noted they were picky finding the right load. Was your barrel 308?

 

[TRG65]

The JP barrel is 223. I tried 70 VLDs, 73ELDs, and finally 77SMK. I did work up like I would for a precision gun. Satterlee method to find nodes and then work around nodes, with the gas turned as far off as I could get it, all the powder charges were weighed out. I used 4895 and Varget. Even the proven loads with varget and the 77SMK (ie around 24grs) gave me problems. I replaced almost everything including putting a heavier upper receiver on. That got it to shoot better, but it is still picky. I managed to get one load that would shoot under 1MOA for 5 shots consistently. That was 23grs of varget with a 77SMK. I only get 2540 from an 18" barrel, but it shoots consistently and I've run it out to 500. It will get the job done for the occasional 2 gun match that I shoot, but if I was a serious 223 shooter, I'd absolutely have a new barrel.

The GAP 10 is 6.5 Creedmoor. It shot .6 moa for 3 shot groups from the first rounds I put through it. I ended up with an average over like 30-3 shot groups of like .62" when I was making brass and using up old ammo from another 6.5. I was ecstatic. When I worked up the load for it, the 3-shot groups average was .3 and the 5 shot group was just under .6. This was Hornady brass with only cleaning and annealing, RL 16, and a 147 ELD at 2670 from a 22" barrel. GAP knows how to build a rifle that lets even a bolt gun guy shoot a gas gun well.

 

[MPrimo]

I found a JP barrel / bolt combo for a little over $400 - 20" heavy contour 11.25T. I have read a quite a few good review and some so-so reviews and a few bad ones. On the other hand...everything written about Craddock Precision is stellar. The price point on the JP is very appealing.

That is the combo I am running and it has been exceptional. I have no experience with the Bartlein offering but I have had the JP together for 3 plus years now and am thrilled with the accuracy.

 

[FCS]

308, I'd go with Craddock. Bartlein / Rock with cut rifled is my preference but the Krieger Criterion barrels I've gotten from Craddock do really well for fewer $.

JP makes really solid gear, been around more of their 223 barrels than 308 barrels. Wouldn't count them out but when I can get desired twist rate, port location, port size, gas block journal diameter, etc from Craddock.....for me it is an easy choice.

 

[MontanaMan]

Bartlein by Craddock, hands down. No way in hell would I pay JP prices for one of their barrels.

You're gonna pay just as much or more for a Bartlein barrel from Craddock. And the JP barrel comes with a fitted bolt.

But given all the issues with many JP barrels being finicky, the Craddock is still a surer bet.............I don't have any 308 barrels from him, but my 223W barrel from him is easily the best barrel I own.

And he's really easy to work with to get exactly what you want if you want something different from a stock contour.

MM

 

[Smitty192]

308, I'd go with Craddock. Bartlein / Rock with cut rifled is my preference but the Krieger Criterion barrels I've gotten from Craddock do really well for fewer $.

JP makes really solid gear, been around more of their 223 barrels than 308 barrels. Wouldn't count them out but when I can get desired twist rate, port location, port size, gas block journal diameter, etc from Craddock.....for me it is an easy choice.

Craddock seems to have the exact same reviews from their customers. Now to decide on the length and profile.

 

[FCS]

Craddock seems to have the exact same reviews from their customers. Now to decide on the length and profile.

What bullet are you planning on running?

 

[Smitty192]

What bullet are you planning on running?

175 SMK
I am really intrigued with the Berger 185.

Leaning heavily towards a 20" barrel. I had a RRA LAR8 Varmint with a 20" barrel and it shot well and I had good success with 175 FGMM. What are your thoughts? What are you loading for your customers?

 

[Adam B]

JP barrels are button rifled and he sources them from Wilson arms if that helps in your decision making

 

[Smitty192]

JP barrels are button rifled and he sources them from Wilson arms if that helps in your decision making

Thanks for the info. Looks like I'll be moving towards Craddock. Feedback seems to be consistent. Probably can't go wrong with either, but I'm leaning Craddock at this point.

 

[FCS]

175 SMK
I am really intrigued with the Berger 185.

Leaning heavily towards a 20" barrel. I had a RRA LAR8 Varmint with a 20" barrel and it shot well and I had good success with 175 FGMM. What are your thoughts? What are you loading for your customers?

I’d suggest 20”, +2”’gas system.
I’d go rifle buffer over CAR buffer also but that’s a lower part not barrel part.
175 SMK, 175 Berger OTM & 185 Juggernaut.

 

[Merle]

While not a Bartlein I think this video shows a pretty fair comparison between a JP barrel and a premium cut rifle barrel. The music is kinda silly so might want to turn the volume down.

 

[Billiam1211]

While not a Bartlein I think this video shows a pretty fair comparison between a JP barrel and a premium cut rifle barrel. The music is kinda silly so might want to turn the volume down.

Yesss! This video partially why I chose not to go with a barrel from JP Enterprises. JP no doubt makes fantastic parts, but I think JP rifles shoot best when you have them build a complete rifle for you that is hand fit and perfectly tuned. I ordered a 20-inch 308 Bartlein from Paul Craddock. Don't think you can go wrong with a premium cut rifled barrel from one of the top makers. Can't wait until the local range opens up so I can go break it in

 

[Smitty192]

While not a Bartlein I think this video shows a pretty fair comparison between a JP barrel and a premium cut rifle barrel. The music is kinda silly so might want to turn the volume down.

I watched this and that was is what lead me to post the question here. I like his stuff. The video series on cloning the MK262 ammo was really interesting.

 

[Smitty192]

I’d suggest 20”, +2”’gas system.
I’d go rifle buffer over CAR buffer also but that’s a lower part not barrel part.
175 SMK, 175 Berger OTM & 185 Juggernaut.

Alright...you have me very curious now. Why is the benefit of the +2 gas system and rifle length buffer on a 308? Thanks for the information.

 

[black max]

I don't think you need the +2 on a 308. I have an 18" Proof carbon barrel with rifle length gas system. It shoots 185 jugs over varget like laser beams at 2550 with a suppressor.

 

[flyright]

That kind of video is about as useful as a cock flavored lollipop - "Patches O'houlihan". I've seen opposite results with a high end barrel vs a catalog ordered barrel but chances of getting an accurate barrel do go up with quality barrels. I have a JP LRP-07 and it was the first SA a bench rest shooting friend of mine ever shot that made him say "okay, I guess a semi can shoot as well as a bolt gun." He bought an LRP in .308 about a month later and it is another 1/2 moa JP.

Button or cut rifled, both can be super accurate shooters and it's always a bit of a crap shoot. I'd not hesitate to go with any of those barrels chambered by Craddock, Compass lake, JP or a host of others. Any of the barrels mentioned above have great potential and any of them have the potential to be finicky or outright terds. Just MHO.

Oh, did we talk about proper assembly of an upper being a player?

 

[MPrimo]

My thoughts exactly. My JP has never shot groups like the one in the video. There are a ton of variables in a gasser ... side by sides like that are not really proof of anything except the accuracy potential of the Craddock.

 

[FCS]

Alright...you have me very curious now. Why is the benefit of the +2 gas system and rifle length buffer on a 308? Thanks for the information.

Keeps bolt locked up longer, easier on brass.
You don’t “need” longer gas system with a heavier buffer but if shooting heavier bullets it aids the effort.
Correct port size (rifle or +2”) makes an appreciable difference. Longer gas system delays unlocking that you can not do equivalent of by any other combination of port size, adjustable gas block, buffer weight, etc.
Nice to have, not need to have.

 

[FCS]

I don't think you need the +2 on a 308. I have an 18" Proof carbon barrel with rifle length gas system. It shoots 185 jugs over varget like laser beams at 2550 with a suppressor.View attachment 7307117

You don’t think a +2” is needed on a 308, 20” yet you are running a rifle gas on an 18”?
+2 on 20” gives the same dwell time as the rifle on your 18”.
I’ll agree the +2” isn’t “needed” but the downside is what?

 

[lennyo3034]

You don’t think a +2” is needed on a 308, 20” yet you are running a rifle gas on an 18”?
+2 on 20” gives the same dwell time as the rifle on your 18”.
I’ll agree the +2” isn’t “needed” but the downside is what?

Same dwell time, but lower pressure. So even though they are being pressurized for the same amount of time, the pressure is lower at the rifle +2. The way to make up for that is a larger gas port diameter. Sometimes when a gas port is too large, material failure can occur on the muzzle side of the gas port, resulting in a chunk breaking away and affecting accuracy. I had this happen on an 18" rifle gas criterion barrel and accuracy went to crap.

 

[FCS]

Same dwell time, but lower pressure. So even though they are being pressurized for the same amount of time, the pressure is lower at the rifle +2. The way to make up for that is a larger gas port diameter. Sometimes when a gas port is too large, material failure can occur on the muzzle side of the gas port, resulting in a chunk breaking away and affecting accuracy. I had this happen on an 18" rifle gas criterion barrel and accuracy went to crap.

Vast majority of 308 gas guns (-10s) have a port that is grossly oversized.
20”, +2” with properly sized port will still be smaller than your common 20” bbl with rifle port if you are setting up to run 175-185 gr bullets.
I’m not a fan of setting up a gas gun to try running every bullet weight possible, too many variables.

 

[memilanuk]

So... I've got a couple Aero M5 lowers that eventually need built into something Kinda figured one of those would be an 18-20" .308, so I'm following this thread with some interest.

Speaking specifically of the Craddock barrels... it looks like the +2 option isn't listed until you get into the 24+" range? I'm assuming they would do a custom order for a 20" with a rifle +2 gas system?

 

[black max]

Its not offered because you don't need it on a 20" barrel...

 

[FCS]

I am in the market for a new AR barrel chambered in 308. I am finally going to make an investment in a high end barrel.

Bartlein by Craddock 10T or JP Super Match 11.25T

600 yard maximum range
Target and some local club PRS matches

And...go

Lotta ways to skin a cat.
Talk to Paul at Craddock, he can guide you on port size / location.
I have preferences, for a 600 yd, -10 in 308 launching 175-185 gr bullets using Varget or similar burn rate powder I’d run +2” gas, PRS stock, rifle buffer tube and rifle buffer that is slightly heavier than stock weight.
Small firing pin diameter bolt also, no down side and plenty of upside.

 

[FCS]

Its not offered because you don't need it on a 20" barrel...

 

[FCS]

So... I've got a couple Aero M5 lowers that eventually need built into something Kinda figured one of those would be an 18-20" .308, so I'm following this thread with some interest.

Speaking specifically of the Craddock barrels... it looks like the +2 option isn't listed until you get into the 24+" range? I'm assuming they would do a custom order for a 20" with a rifle +2 gas system?

Phone call or email and done.
I have lots of not offered on website configuration barrels from Craddock.
Why go with “it works” when you can easily get “works better”?

 

[MontanaMan]

Phone call or email and done.
I have lots of not offered on website configuration barrels from Craddock.
Why go with “it works” when you can easily get “works better”?

+1

Paul is an absolute pleasure to work with & is a 100% straight shooter on his advice or recommendations.

My last 2 barrels were configured by talking to him about what I wanted to do, not just buying what offered as stock on the website.

MM

 

[shooter545]

100% Paul is a great guy, gives great advice and makes awesome barrels. My onay worry is that he is so good his backlog will be so bad I can’t or won’t be able to get barrels from him.

 

[kingzero]

I was building a new coyote rifle in 6.5 Grendel and was going to order a JP barrel. However, I started poking around on Craddocks website where I saw he offered Criterion barrels. I had built a 260 bolt gun years ago with a Criterion and it shot just as good as my Bartlein barreled 6 Creedmoor. I decided to save some cash and ordered from Craddock and the barrel shoots like I expected it to.

 

[RyanScott]

The larger the port is the faster it erodes, all things being equal. I don’t know why more of them aren’t angled.

 

[Billiam1211]

I know this is an older thread, but in April I got a 20-inch 1:10 Bartlein barrel from Craddock spun up. I worked up a hand load with 175 grain SMKs and H4895 and today finally had the chance to shoot out to 605 yards. The rifle was absolutely hammering and targets were pretty small too. I was certainly impressed with my first Craddock barrel.

 

[SupressYourself]

I'm also very impressed with my first Craddock Bartlein. These are the first two groups I shot out of it the other day. 6mm Creed AR10, factory ammo:

 

[Fig]

That was the trouble I read about. Most people that had issues with JP noted they were picky finding the right load. Was your barrel 308?

When I pay for a tier 1 barrel I do not expect to spend weeks and hundreds of rounds trying to find a load. I can make a shitty barrel shoot passably most of the time, but if I’m dropping serious coin I would rate it solely on how easy it is to get it to shoot under a minute.

 

[kl7883]

craddock is working his magic on my 308 bartlien blank. i fully expect it to be the most accurate semi that i own. i cant learn to truly correct my operator error mistakes when there is any question of mechanical perfection.....or as close as possible. bartlein sends people craddock............that is a big deal imho

 

[Billiam1211]

craddock is working his magic on my 308 bartlien blank. i fully expect it to be the most accurate semi that i own. i cant learn to truly correct my operator error mistakes when there is any question of mechanical perfection.....or as close as possible. bartlein sends people craddock............that is a big deal imho

It will be. Mine is by far the most accurate 308 barrel I’ve owned (out of 4) and it shines at longer range. At 100 yards I was printing good groups. Mostly 3/4 minute. However at 500-600 yards I was able to smack some really small steel targets on command which really surprised me.