Criterion Remage & 75 Eldm

whatsupdoc

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    Im running a 700 with a 223 Criterion Remage 7 twist. Shoots everything well so I bought some
    75 Eldm's and it just fell apart. Tried Varget, 8208 and H4895. Various jumps made little difference.


    So anyone have a Criterion Remage and shoot 75 ELDM's?
    What are you using?
     

    FisherT&C

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    Hmm... sometimes their is just a bullet and barrel that doesn't agree with each other. Some of those ESs are solid, this could be a situation for a barrel tuner.
     

    Ledzep

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    Might try a different lot # of 75s, too. I agree though that some barrels don't jive with some bullets.

    eta: Try different powder, too.
     
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    Evintos

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    What's your jam measurement? I see you're doing 0.009" increment then a 0.011" for the ELD-M but you only have 3 values in that set. Lots of people have good results at 0.02" off jam. Some even go as much as 0.05" off.
     
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    bunsen27

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    I have a 26" Criterion 1 in 8" twist with a Wylde chamber. It LOVES both 73gr & 75gr ELDMs. I use the same powder charge for both bullets and am getting 3025fps & 2985fps respectively. It's been awhile since I measured the jump but I think it was 0.010in or 0.005in. I am using MDT polymer magazines and seating the bullets VERY long 2.545in.

    LC or Lapua case
    CCI 41
    Ramshot TAC = 25.12gr
     

    MakeSawdust

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    I have shot a ton of Hornady and Sierra bullets. I have had shit lots from both companies and lots that shot so small you thought they were custom bullets. I would try a different lot.

    I have not had a "bad" lot of Bergers, but I have just recently started shooting them in high volumes. I did notice over the years that Bergers tended to shoot better in small tests, but I never wanted to cough up the cash for thousands of them.

    It CAN be pretty substantial when switching between lots of bullets. I have had 105 AMAX that went from sub .3 groups to .6-.8 groups with a lot # change in the same barrel/load. I have had the same thing happen with 75 bthp in 223. My original lot was shooting .6-.8 moa. I ran out and bought a new lot of the same bullets. Now with the same load the gun is shooting .25-.4 moa.
     

    Lionsbreath

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    I have the same barrel/twist.. First bullet I tried was 75 ELDM’s and Varget and my groups looked like yours.. I switched to 77 SMK’s and it shoots tight now. I have the .223 match chamber
     

    spife7980

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    So because it doesn’t shoot what appears to be a single arbitrary charge weight of a single powder it’s fallen apart? Did you expect differently without a load work up?
     

    Evintos

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    So because it doesn’t shoot what appears to be a single arbitrary charge weight of a single powder it’s fallen apart? Did you expect differently without a load work up?
    It makes sense if OP is doing a seating depth test before a powder charge work up. Although there's not enough sets of data on the seating depths and the increment may be too large. Although I'm leaning towards not enough jump. His Bergers are jumped much further based on the CBTO's listed.
     

    supercorndogs

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    If a bullet is shooting 2 moa with an arbitrary charge weight, I am not doing to do a full work up with it. Its not going to tighten up top shoot like the other load. IMO.
     
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    whatsupdoc

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    So because it doesn’t shoot what appears to be a single arbitrary charge weight of a single powder it’s fallen apart? Did you expect differently without a load work up?
    Tried different powder charges with three powders almost no difference so I tried jumping .010 to .030.




    I have the same barrel/twist.. First bullet I tried was 75 ELDM’s and Varget and my groups looked like yours.. I switched to 77 SMK’s and it shoots tight now. I have the .223 match chamber
    That is my barrel and chamber and it shoots 77SMK excellent, I wanted to use the 75 ELDs to shoot out to 800 because they are inexpensive
    and have a much better BC than the 77SMK but looks like I will need to find another bullet.
     

    Ledzep

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    If a bullet is shooting 2 moa with an arbitrary charge weight, I am not doing to do a full work up with it. Its not going to tighten up top shoot like the other load. IMO.

    I'm fairly quick to write stuff off that doesn't work and not waste time with it. And I'm not telling you what to do, just sharing some experiences I've had. I have made the same bullets, primers, and cases at the same seating depth shoot 20 shot groups that were 0.45-0.6 MOA all the way up to 2-3 MOA by adjusting powder type and charge weight. No bullshit, all within the expected burn rate for the cartridge, all within published load data. FWIW I've never experienced a "high node". Good powders have a flatter slope, but all of them that I've tested dispersion increases with increased powder charge. So often if something is not shooting great, I'll drop a grain and see if it helps dramatically. Sometimes it does.

    After having seen the aforementioned 0.5-3 MOA from the same components, I will try 2-3 different powders before I nix a bullet for a particular barrel. And it's not always bad bullets. Sometimes they just aren't happy with something that happens in that barrel and will shoot fine in another. Throat geometry, twist rate variation, bore/groove ratios or dimensions, etc...
     
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    supercorndogs

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    I have had bullets that wouldn't shoot in a barrel, but I have never had them start shooting with a powder change. Not saying it doesn't happen, just that I haven't seen it. After a couple times running through a bunch of different powders i stopped trying. ITs probably why i have never seen it. It was too easy to buy a bullet that shot with what i wanted to use. LOL.
     
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    Ledzep

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    No doubt. That was over the course of ~600 rounds worth of pure experimentation, not really looking for anything other than "what happens if". Personally for load development I try 10 shot groups with various powders until something shows promise. I've found powder type to be more influential than powder charge variation. If none of the 'popular' powders show promise I swap bullets. Where the OP already knows the Bergers are trying, roll with it.