Gunsmithing Curios and Relics FFL?

[Surgeon308]

Am I missing something or could I apply for a C&R FFL for my personal collection for $30? I don't plan on buying and selling for profit, but it's dang aggravating finding someone with an FFL to order a rifle when it has to be shipped. Would this suffice for ordering actions/recievers directly from Brownells, Midway, other fine builders? I went to the NRA website and it looks simple.

Just got all my paperwork for LLC (future suppressor purchase), would it be advantagous to have the FFL associated with the existing LLC, or have the FFL in my name?

Any links or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I know this is in the gunsmithing category, but I didn't really know where to put it.

Louis

 

[Boomholzer]

Re: Curios and Relics FFL?

C&R FFL is only for obtaining eligible "C&R" firearms.

Curios or Relics: Firearms which are of special interest to collectors by reason of some quality other than is associated with firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons. To be recognized as curios or relics, firearms must fall within one of
the following categories:
(a) Firearms that were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof;
(b) Firearms which are certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest; and
(c) Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event. Proof of qualification of a particular firearm under this category may be established by evidence of present value and evidence that like firearms are not available except as collector's items, or that the value of like firearms available in ordinary commercial channels is substantially less.

 

[Surgeon308]

Re: Curios and Relics FFL?

So you have to be a working gunsmith or every day dealer? Or can you get a dealer FFL for $200 for personal use?

 

[oldgrayone]

Re: Curios and Relics FFL?

BATF frowns on personal use (hobby) ffl's. I think now you need a store front and posted hours of operation.

 

[Boomholzer]

Re: Curios and Relics FFL?

The interpretation on this has seemed to change over the years. I don't hold a FFL and am unqualified to answer.

When I was a kid, there were three kind folk in my tiny town that were FFL holders solely for strong personal and non-profit club interests. Currently, I don't know anyone who holds proper type without some limited business relating to it.

I'm sure they are others with better feedback to offer. I've read allot on it over the years and internet type input has varied greatly. I am also curious on the current "situation". I can only offer speculation.

 

[AWGunS]

Re: Curios and Relics FFL?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Louis Phillips</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So you have to be a working gunsmith or every day dealer? Or can you get a dealer FFL for $200 for personal use? </div></div>

There is no such thing as a personal use FFL. When you apply, you are seeinkg a license to engage in the business of buying and selling firearms. What is the definition of engaging in business? Selling ONE firearm per year. That was straight from a ATF compliance agent.

You can use a FFL for personal use. If you file as a sole proprietor, any firearms that you receive can become part of your personal collection. No paperwork is needed. If you Incorporate, LLC, etc, you actually have to fill out a 4473, do the NICS check (depending on your state) on yourself. SOunds stupid, but its true.

 

[DustyJacket]

Re: Curios and Relics FFL?

Actually, the definition on the books at the ATF is different.

(21) The term "engaged in the business"
means—

<snip out manufacturers>

(C) as applied to a dealer in firearms,
as defined in section
921(a)(11)(A), a person who devotes
time, attention, and labor to dealing
in firearms as a regular course of
trade or business <span style="font-weight: bold">with the principal
objective of livelihood and profit
through the repetitive purchase and
resale of firearms</span>, but such term
shall not include a person who
makes occasional sales, exchanges,
or purchases of firearms for the enhancement
of a personal collection or
for a hobby, or who sells all or part of
his personal collection of firearms;

 

[DustyJacket]

Re: Curios and Relics FFL?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Louis Phillips</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Am I missing something or could I apply for a C&R FFL for my personal collection for $30? <snip>

Just got all my paperwork for LLC (future suppressor purchase), would it be advantagous to have the FFL associated with the existing LLC, or have the FFL in my name?

<snip> </div></div>
In places like Missouri, a C&R is required, to own atitle II item (NFA stuff like duppressors).

 

[hrt4me]

Re: Curios and Relics FFL?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oldgrayone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BATF frowns on personal use (hobby) ffl's. I think now you need a store front and posted hours of operation. </div></div>

I believe the Type 03 FFL is specifically for collecting weapons, but only those which qualify as curios and/or relics, so there is not necessarily the same 'requirement' to be engaged in business as with a Type 01 FFL.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DustyJacket</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In places like Missouri, a C&R is required to own a title II item (NFA stuff like suppressors).</div></div>

That is not true; Missouri state law does require a federal firearms license to own Title II/NFA items, but it does not specifically require a Type 03 FFL; most people in Missouri simply choose to get the C&R license because it is simpler than applying for the Type 01 FFL.

 

[DustyJacket]

Re: Curios and Relics FFL?

I was paraphrasing. He was asking about getting a C&R.

BTW - someone who is not going to be dealing as a business cannot get an FFL (type 01), plus a class III/SOT. It may not be law, but that is the way it is these days.

2. A person does not commit a crime pursuant to this section if his conduct:

<snip>

(5) Was incident to dealing with the weapon solely as a curio, ornament, or keepsake, or to using it in a manner reasonably related to a lawful dramatic performance; but if the weapon is a type described in subdivision (1) or (4) of subsection 1 of this section it must be in such a nonfunctioning condition that it cannot readily be made operable. No short barreled rifle, short barreled shotgun, machine gun, or firearm silencer may be possessed, manufactured, transported, repaired or sold as a curio, ornament, or keepsake, unless such person is an importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector licensed by the Secretary of the Treasury pursuant to the Gun Control Act of 1968, U.S.C., Title 18, or unless such firearm is an antique firearm as defined in subsection 3 of section 571.080, or unless such firearm has been designated a collectors item by the Secretary of the Treasury pursuant to the U.S.C., Title 26, Section 5845(a).

 

[pepperbelly]

Re: Curios and Relics FFL?

I have a C&RFFL. It is for the purpose of collecting C&R eligible firearms. Those are firearms 50 years old and older or have been designated curios- like the Yugo SKS carbines made in the '70s for example.
It is not a dealer license. In other words you can't buy with the intention of selling the weapon.

One big side benefit is that Graf's, Midway, Brownell's and others will give a C&RFFL holder dealer pricing. I know several people who have a C&RFFL and never buy a weapon. They use it for the discounts. There is no restriction on buying and selling parts.

The reason for the BATFE creating the C&RFFL is so a person can buy a weapon in another state and have it shipped to his home. It really has no benefit in FTF sales, and limited benefit in-state.

Jim