I have been looking to purchase a custom action. Most of them ballpark in roughly the same price range. Does it pretty much boil down to a name? Is it like prefering a Ford, Chevy, Dodge, or Toyota? Thanks.
Gunsmithing Custom Actions
Re: Custom Actions
what are you gonna use it for?
If I were building a dedicated bench of F-class gun I'd use a 3 lug Bat action but for a tactical style rifle that may get alot more dirt on it the Bat may not be a great choice as they are pretty tight. For the same money I'd use s Surgen
what are you gonna use it for?
If I were building a dedicated bench of F-class gun I'd use a 3 lug Bat action but for a tactical style rifle that may get alot more dirt on it the Bat may not be a great choice as they are pretty tight. For the same money I'd use s Surgen
Re: Custom Actions
Would there be an action that would work for both or is it better to focus on just one style?
Would there be an action that would work for both or is it better to focus on just one style?
Re: Custom Actions
Every Bat I've felt was very very pleasing to work , they are so smooth its amazing. But they are tight so I supposes that theirs a chance that some dirt may foul it , I could be wrong as I've never talked to anybody that runs one outside of dedicated targets or live varmints.
The couple Surgens I've felt were very very nice also not like a Bat. If I were to pick one action to use all the way around I'd likely use the Surgen.
I also like the Tactical style look of that action with its fixed rail and big bolt handel so I'm partial that way also
Every Bat I've felt was very very pleasing to work , they are so smooth its amazing. But they are tight so I supposes that theirs a chance that some dirt may foul it , I could be wrong as I've never talked to anybody that runs one outside of dedicated targets or live varmints.
The couple Surgens I've felt were very very nice also not like a Bat. If I were to pick one action to use all the way around I'd likely use the Surgen.
I also like the Tactical style look of that action with its fixed rail and big bolt handel so I'm partial that way also
Re: Custom Actions
Here are my thoughts.
I love BAT actions. Especially if you're going to be shooting a "clean" rifle, i.e. BR or Tactical bench. For field use I wouldn't consider one.
For real world situations, you would be hard pressed to beat a Surgeon although I am seriously thinking the new Badger actions will do just that. I love the Surgeon but they are a little too high for my taste. Also, a good ol' Remington properly tuned will serve you very well for a long time. But it is not "custom" so that may not be a consideration.
The Phoenix actions, from either Phoenix or GAP is a great compromise. It's a little tighter than a tuned Remington but by far not as expensive as a Surgeon.
Really it comes down to personal preference much like barrels. You may not have a "bad" decision, but some are better than others.
Here are my thoughts.
I love BAT actions. Especially if you're going to be shooting a "clean" rifle, i.e. BR or Tactical bench. For field use I wouldn't consider one.
For real world situations, you would be hard pressed to beat a Surgeon although I am seriously thinking the new Badger actions will do just that. I love the Surgeon but they are a little too high for my taste. Also, a good ol' Remington properly tuned will serve you very well for a long time. But it is not "custom" so that may not be a consideration.
The Phoenix actions, from either Phoenix or GAP is a great compromise. It's a little tighter than a tuned Remington but by far not as expensive as a Surgeon.
Really it comes down to personal preference much like barrels. You may not have a "bad" decision, but some are better than others.
Re: Custom Actions
Very much a Ford vs Chevy when looking at the best choices for the build you desire. I think the Borden, surgeon round, stiller tac, lawton, pierce and others are a matter of personal preference. The gun plumber you pick to build it may have a peference and its more likely his ability will determine the outlook more than the basis of the build.
Very much a Ford vs Chevy when looking at the best choices for the build you desire. I think the Borden, surgeon round, stiller tac, lawton, pierce and others are a matter of personal preference. The gun plumber you pick to build it may have a peference and its more likely his ability will determine the outlook more than the basis of the build.
Re: Custom Actions
Pierce Tac repeater. I am counting the days for the phone call. My AICS looks pretty disgusting just sitting there, like a body without a head, it gives me chills.
http://www.pierceengineeringltd.com/products.php?item=2
Pierce Tac repeater. I am counting the days for the phone call. My AICS looks pretty disgusting just sitting there, like a body without a head, it gives me chills.
http://www.pierceengineeringltd.com/products.php?item=2
Re: Custom Actions
Take a look at the Surgeon round if you don't want to fork over the cash for the standard Surgeon. Rounds are stainless and come with the same one piece Surgeon bolt. Raceways are EDM cut. Dual pinned lug. Examples I have seen are very slick and well machined. They are currently shipping.
But as above, it is a matter of personal preference.
Take a look at the Surgeon round if you don't want to fork over the cash for the standard Surgeon. Rounds are stainless and come with the same one piece Surgeon bolt. Raceways are EDM cut. Dual pinned lug. Examples I have seen are very slick and well machined. They are currently shipping.
But as above, it is a matter of personal preference.
Re: Custom Actions
IM having George and the boys at GAP build me a rifle with a Templar action in 223AI and i was told it is on the bench now.If i was going for a 308 or bigger i would go with the Surgeon.The Templar seems like the way to go for a serious tactical rifle in 223AI.
IM having George and the boys at GAP build me a rifle with a Templar action in 223AI and i was told it is on the bench now.If i was going for a 308 or bigger i would go with the Surgeon.The Templar seems like the way to go for a serious tactical rifle in 223AI.
Re: Custom Actions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sigster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">IM having George and the boys at GAP build me a rifle with a Templar action in 223AI and i was told it ia on the bench now.If i was going for a 308 or bigger i would go with the Surgeon.The Templar seems like the way to go for a serious tactical rifle in 223AI. </div></div>
Why do you say this? Are you saying that the Templar isn't as good / strong / whatever for a .30 cal?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sigster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">IM having George and the boys at GAP build me a rifle with a Templar action in 223AI and i was told it ia on the bench now.If i was going for a 308 or bigger i would go with the Surgeon.The Templar seems like the way to go for a serious tactical rifle in 223AI. </div></div>
Why do you say this? Are you saying that the Templar isn't as good / strong / whatever for a .30 cal?
Re: Custom Actions
I think he is saying he would like a Surgeon but they don't make anything with a 0.378 bolt face yet.
I think he is saying he would like a Surgeon but they don't make anything with a 0.378 bolt face yet.
Re: Custom Actions
I have two tactical rifles built on Lawton actions and they are great. Very reliable and accurate. Clean or dirty.
I have two tactical rifles built on Lawton actions and they are great. Very reliable and accurate. Clean or dirty.
Re: Custom Actions
No i think the Templar is plenty strong,I wanted a Surgeon but could not get it with a 223 bolt face.I was happy to find a action like the Templar in 223.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sigster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">IM having George and the boys at GAP build me a rifle with a Templar action in 223AI and i was told it ia on the bench now.If i was going for a 308 or bigger i would go with the Surgeon.The Templar seems like the way to go for a serious tactical rifle in 223AI. </div></div>
Why do you say this? Are you saying that the Templar isn't as good / strong / whatever for a .30 cal? </div></div>
No i think the Templar is plenty strong,I wanted a Surgeon but could not get it with a 223 bolt face.I was happy to find a action like the Templar in 223.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sigster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">IM having George and the boys at GAP build me a rifle with a Templar action in 223AI and i was told it ia on the bench now.If i was going for a 308 or bigger i would go with the Surgeon.The Templar seems like the way to go for a serious tactical rifle in 223AI. </div></div>
Why do you say this? Are you saying that the Templar isn't as good / strong / whatever for a .30 cal? </div></div>
Re: Custom Actions
I am sure what i am about to say isn't the norm, but i have heard what i am going to say, from 5 different accomplished bench rest shooters. The 5 different shooter all said that the very most accurate rifle they have ever shot or owned were rem 700 action with what ever barrel they were shooting. I would love to have a custom action, but for now i am sticking with the rem 700 and a quality barrel, and a quality chamber. Again this is hear say, so do not attack what i repeated that i have heard from those five different accomplished bench shooters. They had no reason to lie, as every one of them shoot custom actions.
I am sure what i am about to say isn't the norm, but i have heard what i am going to say, from 5 different accomplished bench rest shooters. The 5 different shooter all said that the very most accurate rifle they have ever shot or owned were rem 700 action with what ever barrel they were shooting. I would love to have a custom action, but for now i am sticking with the rem 700 and a quality barrel, and a quality chamber. Again this is hear say, so do not attack what i repeated that i have heard from those five different accomplished bench shooters. They had no reason to lie, as every one of them shoot custom actions.
Re: Custom Actions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skeetlee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am sure what i am about to say isn't the norm, but i have heard what i am going to say, from 5 different accomplished bench rest shooters. The 5 different shooter all said that the very most accurate rifle they have ever shot or owned were rem 700 action with what ever barrel they were shooting. I would love to have a custom action, but for now i am sticking with the rem 700 and a quality barrel, and a quality chamber. Again this is hear say, so do not attack what i repeated that i have heard from those five different accomplished bench shooters. They had no reason to lie, as every one of them shoot custom actions. </div></div>
I'm not attacking you are the BR shooters, I just need clarification to what you "heard".
The most accurate rifle(action) the ever shot or owned were Rem 700's, yet they all shoot custom actions? The most accurate rifles they had were built on Rem 700s but they are not shooting Rem 700s. Am I the only one that doesn't think that makes sense?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skeetlee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am sure what i am about to say isn't the norm, but i have heard what i am going to say, from 5 different accomplished bench rest shooters. The 5 different shooter all said that the very most accurate rifle they have ever shot or owned were rem 700 action with what ever barrel they were shooting. I would love to have a custom action, but for now i am sticking with the rem 700 and a quality barrel, and a quality chamber. Again this is hear say, so do not attack what i repeated that i have heard from those five different accomplished bench shooters. They had no reason to lie, as every one of them shoot custom actions. </div></div>
I'm not attacking you are the BR shooters, I just need clarification to what you "heard".
The most accurate rifle(action) the ever shot or owned were Rem 700's, yet they all shoot custom actions? The most accurate rifles they had were built on Rem 700s but they are not shooting Rem 700s. Am I the only one that doesn't think that makes sense?
Re: Custom Actions
You go to a BR comp and you will find about 98% of them do not use rem 700 for many reasons. The other 2% are just getting into the sport.
You go to a BR comp and you will find about 98% of them do not use rem 700 for many reasons. The other 2% are just getting into the sport.
Re: Custom Actions
If you have nothing to start with then A custom action cant be compared to a factory. If you do use a factory you will and I repeat will have more money in it than its worth for it to even be compared to a custom action. go sell that worked factory and you get nothing for all the money spent...The custom action will retain or increase in price...All those Bench shooters didnt use the factory action out of the box....ask them that?
dont mean to sound ticked but man these guys that build custom actions dont get the credit. Close tolerance machining on a semi production scale.. Why not just use a factory barrel then...Pick up a rifle at Wally World and let em have it/
Ok i feel alot better-- im off my soap box!
If you have nothing to start with then A custom action cant be compared to a factory. If you do use a factory you will and I repeat will have more money in it than its worth for it to even be compared to a custom action. go sell that worked factory and you get nothing for all the money spent...The custom action will retain or increase in price...All those Bench shooters didnt use the factory action out of the box....ask them that?
dont mean to sound ticked but man these guys that build custom actions dont get the credit. Close tolerance machining on a semi production scale.. Why not just use a factory barrel then...Pick up a rifle at Wally World and let em have it/
Ok i feel alot better-- im off my soap box!
Re: Custom Actions
Man, I am just telling you what i was told!! I am not a bench rest shooter! They simply stated that, some of there very best shooting bench guns were rem 700. Why do they shoot customs? I dont know i am not them. I would have to guess it has something to do with, because they can!! Every one in every sport, eventually spends the big bucks for the perceived best equipment. If you serious about your sport anyway. Or maybe they thought that the custom would shoot even better, so they had to sell there rem 700 to pay for the custom? Like i said, I am not them, and i didnt ask!!! I have been doing a lot of research on this subject and i have been on the phone with a lot of the top smith around. I am staying with my good old rem 700 ,with a custom chamber and barrel. For now anyway.
Man, I am just telling you what i was told!! I am not a bench rest shooter! They simply stated that, some of there very best shooting bench guns were rem 700. Why do they shoot customs? I dont know i am not them. I would have to guess it has something to do with, because they can!! Every one in every sport, eventually spends the big bucks for the perceived best equipment. If you serious about your sport anyway. Or maybe they thought that the custom would shoot even better, so they had to sell there rem 700 to pay for the custom? Like i said, I am not them, and i didnt ask!!! I have been doing a lot of research on this subject and i have been on the phone with a lot of the top smith around. I am staying with my good old rem 700 ,with a custom chamber and barrel. For now anyway.
Re: Custom Actions
Skeetlee--Did you think that the smiths will get more money for more work done having to work that action over?
Im not jumping on you at all but just think about what was told to you...it doesnt make any sense....in Bench Rest shooting they are concerned with the tightest tolerances they can possibly attain...whether it be handloads (in every aspect and component), barrels, chambers, bedding, rests, scopes, or recoil....it only makes sense they would want the same out of their actions...doesnt it?
Skeetlee--Did you think that the smiths will get more money for more work done having to work that action over?
Im not jumping on you at all but just think about what was told to you...it doesnt make any sense....in Bench Rest shooting they are concerned with the tightest tolerances they can possibly attain...whether it be handloads (in every aspect and component), barrels, chambers, bedding, rests, scopes, or recoil....it only makes sense they would want the same out of their actions...doesnt it?
Re: Custom Actions
that may be but not every one can afford top components. And explain this to me. I have a stock rem 700 varmint in 243 that will shoot a one hole slightly ragged, 5 shot group at 100 yards. This rifle will do this most any day! I have witnesses and a couple targets to prove it. Why does this rifle shoot so well? Hell it just a factory production rifle. This hole thing makes no difference to me, and i have nothing to prove. Some of the guys i have heard these kind of claims from have no reason to lie. Why would they! So personally it doesnt seem strange or even uncommon! Lee
that may be but not every one can afford top components. And explain this to me. I have a stock rem 700 varmint in 243 that will shoot a one hole slightly ragged, 5 shot group at 100 yards. This rifle will do this most any day! I have witnesses and a couple targets to prove it. Why does this rifle shoot so well? Hell it just a factory production rifle. This hole thing makes no difference to me, and i have nothing to prove. Some of the guys i have heard these kind of claims from have no reason to lie. Why would they! So personally it doesnt seem strange or even uncommon! Lee
Re: Custom Actions
5 shots at 100yds does not constitute a match.
Some custom actions have features that make it out the manufacturers doors that OEM Remington 700 actions don't have.
5 shots at 100yds does not constitute a match.
Some custom actions have features that make it out the manufacturers doors that OEM Remington 700 actions don't have.
Re: Custom Actions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skeetlee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">that may be but not every one can afford top components. And explain this to me. I have a stock rem 700 varmint in 243 that will shoot a one hole slightly ragged, 5 shot group at 100 yards. This rifle will do this most any day! I have witnesses and a couple targets to prove it. Why does this rifle shoot so well? Hell it just a factory production rifle. This hole thing makes no difference to me, and i have nothing to prove. Some of the guys i have heard these kind of claims from have no reason to lie. Why would they! So personally it doesnt seem strange or even uncommon! Lee </div></div>
Skeet don't take this wrong but 100yds tells you nothing.Take it out to 800yds and shoot ten 5 shot groups and things will be clear.That said every once in ahwile a factory gun just drills but it is the exception not the norm.These guys dont spend 4-5k on rifles for no reason consistency is accuracy.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skeetlee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">that may be but not every one can afford top components. And explain this to me. I have a stock rem 700 varmint in 243 that will shoot a one hole slightly ragged, 5 shot group at 100 yards. This rifle will do this most any day! I have witnesses and a couple targets to prove it. Why does this rifle shoot so well? Hell it just a factory production rifle. This hole thing makes no difference to me, and i have nothing to prove. Some of the guys i have heard these kind of claims from have no reason to lie. Why would they! So personally it doesnt seem strange or even uncommon! Lee </div></div>
Skeet don't take this wrong but 100yds tells you nothing.Take it out to 800yds and shoot ten 5 shot groups and things will be clear.That said every once in ahwile a factory gun just drills but it is the exception not the norm.These guys dont spend 4-5k on rifles for no reason consistency is accuracy.
Re: Custom Actions
"some of there very best shooting bench guns were rem 700." Well, I am a BR shooter and that pattern has not been true at the events I have attended. Yes, 700s are common at shoots but not by the folks that are serious, have been in the game for more than a short while, and have the means. Just go look at the results of the big matches - part of that is marketing as we know marketing and name recognition sells products.
There is NOTHING wrong with the 700, but the tolerances and refinements of the customs do have value/use. That having been said, typically by the time you pay a smith to clean up a 700 properly you could have bought a Predator.
A worked 700 will not get your money back if you sell; the chances for ROI are MUCH higher on a custom.
If $$$ are tight, spend it on a quality barrel and an experienced smith to install it rather than on the action.
Bottom line IMHO is you get what you pay for; pay once and enjoy it forever.
FYI - I have both 700s and customs and both will typically out perform me on many days.
"some of there very best shooting bench guns were rem 700." Well, I am a BR shooter and that pattern has not been true at the events I have attended. Yes, 700s are common at shoots but not by the folks that are serious, have been in the game for more than a short while, and have the means. Just go look at the results of the big matches - part of that is marketing as we know marketing and name recognition sells products.
There is NOTHING wrong with the 700, but the tolerances and refinements of the customs do have value/use. That having been said, typically by the time you pay a smith to clean up a 700 properly you could have bought a Predator.
A worked 700 will not get your money back if you sell; the chances for ROI are MUCH higher on a custom.
If $$$ are tight, spend it on a quality barrel and an experienced smith to install it rather than on the action.
Bottom line IMHO is you get what you pay for; pay once and enjoy it forever.
FYI - I have both 700s and customs and both will typically out perform me on many days.
Re: Custom Actions
Explorer, there are quite a few 700 Rems still competing in the IBS Hunter and Varmint Hunter classes. In fact my wife, Sara, won the IBS VH 200-300 Nationals with hers in 2008 and I took 2nd with my 722. A properly trued Rem. will perform as well as a custom. The value upon re-sale is the only valid argument.
Explorer, there are quite a few 700 Rems still competing in the IBS Hunter and Varmint Hunter classes. In fact my wife, Sara, won the IBS VH 200-300 Nationals with hers in 2008 and I took 2nd with my 722. A properly trued Rem. will perform as well as a custom. The value upon re-sale is the only valid argument.
Re: Custom Actions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DocEd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Explorer, there are quite a few 700 Rems still competing in the IBS Hunter and Varmint Hunter classes. In fact my wife, Sara, won the IBS VH 200-300 Nationals with hers in 2008 and I took 2nd with my 722. A properly trued Rem. will perform as well as a custom. The value upon re-sale is the only valid argument. </div></div>
Sorry doc your wrong. How many barrels you gonna be able to put on one of those special remys? How are the lugs gonna hold up? You gonna build a RUM or a Lapua on a remy and expect it to hold up for a long time? A custom action is built to print with more lug area more barrel tenon area and way better steel then has ever been through one of those factorys. Why you think they thread lock them all? They were built for one barrel and to be tossed and buy a new one to keep the company going.
You want quality that will last you buy a custom.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DocEd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Explorer, there are quite a few 700 Rems still competing in the IBS Hunter and Varmint Hunter classes. In fact my wife, Sara, won the IBS VH 200-300 Nationals with hers in 2008 and I took 2nd with my 722. A properly trued Rem. will perform as well as a custom. The value upon re-sale is the only valid argument. </div></div>
Sorry doc your wrong. How many barrels you gonna be able to put on one of those special remys? How are the lugs gonna hold up? You gonna build a RUM or a Lapua on a remy and expect it to hold up for a long time? A custom action is built to print with more lug area more barrel tenon area and way better steel then has ever been through one of those factorys. Why you think they thread lock them all? They were built for one barrel and to be tossed and buy a new one to keep the company going.
You want quality that will last you buy a custom.
Re: Custom Actions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NotAGuru</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DocEd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Explorer, there are quite a few 700 Rems still competing in the IBS Hunter and Varmint Hunter classes. In fact my wife, Sara, won the IBS VH 200-300 Nationals with hers in 2008 and I took 2nd with my 722. A properly trued Rem. will perform as well as a custom. The value upon re-sale is the only valid argument. </div></div>
Sorry doc your way wrong. How many barrels you gonna be able to put on one of those special remys? How are the lugs gonna hold up? You gonna build a RUM or a Lapua on a remy and expect it to hold up for a long time? A custom action is built to print with more lug area more barrel tenon area and way better steel then has ever been through one of those factorys. Why you think they thread lock them all? They were built for one barrel and to be tossed and buy a new one to keep the company going.
You want quality that will last you buy a custom. </div></div>
The truth may be in the middle the Marines have certainly put the Remington actions to the test they seem to have faired well.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NotAGuru</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DocEd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Explorer, there are quite a few 700 Rems still competing in the IBS Hunter and Varmint Hunter classes. In fact my wife, Sara, won the IBS VH 200-300 Nationals with hers in 2008 and I took 2nd with my 722. A properly trued Rem. will perform as well as a custom. The value upon re-sale is the only valid argument. </div></div>
Sorry doc your way wrong. How many barrels you gonna be able to put on one of those special remys? How are the lugs gonna hold up? You gonna build a RUM or a Lapua on a remy and expect it to hold up for a long time? A custom action is built to print with more lug area more barrel tenon area and way better steel then has ever been through one of those factorys. Why you think they thread lock them all? They were built for one barrel and to be tossed and buy a new one to keep the company going.
You want quality that will last you buy a custom. </div></div>
The truth may be in the middle the Marines have certainly put the Remington actions to the test they seem to have faired well.
Re: Custom Actions
Guys all i am trying to establish is that a properly tuned rem 700 action can compete against custom actions. I read and shoot a bunch. I am wanting to do a bench rifle for 1-300 yard shooting. I will be going with a 6BR and a rem 700 action done by Robert Snyder here on the hide. I dont know what barrel yet, but t will be a top brand. I figure this set up in a goog McMillan stock should shoot pretty well. At least well enough for me to know weather i even enjoy this discipline. This has been an interesting topic though and i enjoyed it!! Lee
Guys all i am trying to establish is that a properly tuned rem 700 action can compete against custom actions. I read and shoot a bunch. I am wanting to do a bench rifle for 1-300 yard shooting. I will be going with a 6BR and a rem 700 action done by Robert Snyder here on the hide. I dont know what barrel yet, but t will be a top brand. I figure this set up in a goog McMillan stock should shoot pretty well. At least well enough for me to know weather i even enjoy this discipline. This has been an interesting topic though and i enjoyed it!! Lee
Re: Custom Actions
Here is a note from a customer that came in last night. We get these from time to time. The frequency of them involving a Rem is less than from custom action owners:
'Quote'
Dan,
I thought you might enjoy hearing it appears the Palma rifle you trued, barreled, and chambered for me 4-5 years ago set a national record today. During the Memphis midrange regional at 500 shooting any/any it delivered a 150-14X, with 155 SMKs no less. I'll take the blame for the 10 on the second shot. It also shot a 150-9x at 300 and 150-10x at 600 with irons. You sure turned that old Remington 700 deer rifle into a tack driver. Thanks!!!!
Mark
'End'
Take it how you will.
Alan
Here is a note from a customer that came in last night. We get these from time to time. The frequency of them involving a Rem is less than from custom action owners:
'Quote'
Dan,
I thought you might enjoy hearing it appears the Palma rifle you trued, barreled, and chambered for me 4-5 years ago set a national record today. During the Memphis midrange regional at 500 shooting any/any it delivered a 150-14X, with 155 SMKs no less. I'll take the blame for the 10 on the second shot. It also shot a 150-9x at 300 and 150-10x at 600 with irons. You sure turned that old Remington 700 deer rifle into a tack driver. Thanks!!!!
Mark
'End'
Take it how you will.
Alan
Re: Custom Actions
Food for thought---the biggest proponent of the "customs are way better" school happens to have the same last name as a popular custom action...coincidence?????
(Isn't there a comment about "marketing" somewhere in this thread??)
BTW- I'd always pick a custom over a factory when I can afford it! If nothing else, it makes me happy when I gaze at her longingly during the cold winter months! So far that's only been once.
Food for thought---the biggest proponent of the "customs are way better" school happens to have the same last name as a popular custom action...coincidence?????
BTW- I'd always pick a custom over a factory when I can afford it! If nothing else, it makes me happy when I gaze at her longingly during the cold winter months! So far that's only been once.
Re: Custom Actions
Not a M40 expert but don't the M40A3's come back into the armory for rebarrels? If that is true then wouldn't the Rem action be more than "1" barrel worthy? Like I said I am not sure but why does KMW get return stocks?
Not a M40 expert but don't the M40A3's come back into the armory for rebarrels? If that is true then wouldn't the Rem action be more than "1" barrel worthy? Like I said I am not sure but why does KMW get return stocks?
Re: Custom Actions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SDWhirlwind</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NotAGuru</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DocEd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Explorer, there are quite a few 700 Rems still competing in the IBS Hunter and Varmint Hunter classes. In fact my wife, Sara, won the IBS VH 200-300 Nationals with hers in 2008 and I took 2nd with my 722. A properly trued Rem. will perform as well as a custom. The value upon re-sale is the only valid argument. </div></div>
Sorry doc your way wrong. How many barrels you gonna be able to put on one of those special remys? How are the lugs gonna hold up? You gonna build a RUM or a Lapua on a remy and expect it to hold up for a long time? A custom action is built to print with more lug area more barrel tenon area and way better steel then has ever been through one of those factorys. Why you think they thread lock them all? They were built for one barrel and to be tossed and buy a new one to keep the company going.
You want quality that will last you buy a custom. </div></div>
Be carefull Grasshoppa who you tell are "way wrong" unless you have a real good idea of their background and what they do/have done!!!! Gonna have to disagree a bit with you here. As was pointed out there has probably never been a better test bed for the Remington 700 than our Armed Forces and what they have accomplished with them. The 'thread lock' surely cannot be a valid point for the 700 being a 'disposable' rifle by any means. Granted most semi production customs have tolerances, features and materials a cut or way above a production item but the cost difference should give you nothing less than more bang for your buck so to speak.
Also to become a member here not even a yr ago and then post nearly 1000 posts with questions and comments from admittedly being rifle illiterate to than making a broad statement argueing that a custom receiver has NO benefits over a production receiver is amusing to say the least. As pointed out you can sure get a factory assembled 700 to shoot "a super group" but not many will do it consistently or the line I love so well "all day long if I do my part"!!!!! Had a stainless factory 300Wea sporter that I shot a .180 3 shot group from and numerous 3 shot groups under .4". Have a pitted 222 sporter tube I punched to 22/250AI that has shot a .190 for 3 shots along with other .3ish groups. Would I bet that I or the rifle would do it for money with a witness, not a snowballs chance!!
I have owned and shot probably close to 100 factory or custom barreled 700's over 30+ yrs of gun tradeing, tinkering and hunting. Cannot remember ONE of the factory barreled actions that shot really bad. Had owned a handfull that shot as good as or better than most any custom action/barrel combo that could be bought so a super accurate factory 700 barreled action has definetely been built. However most average 3/4-1" for a 3 shot group, go to 5 and shoot several groups on the same target and you will see fliers etc from factory barreled actions. Not bad but damn sure rarely not a combo for winning a match like DocEd mentions. His point should surely be considered that an excellent smith can build a very accurate rifle from a properly prepared factory Remington 700. It is done every day. A lot more will depend on the quality of the barrel and how it was fit/machined than the brand name on the receiver. I can guarantee you that 95% of us here shooting a custom actioned rifle will get our asses handed to us by the other 5% using a Rem 700 actioned rifle, providing of course that accuracy, barrel quality and smithing is comparable between the 2 prior. Most of us will NEVER be able to drive either to their full potential.
I have only built so far on 1 Stiller Tac30. It is a well thought out piece of art I think and am sure most customs are well worth their asking price. Out of affordability and necessity however the rest of my rifles are 700's. For what I do with them and my skills they serve me perfectly. If I had the money or shot competitively I would more than likely use an aftermarket. The resale is a moot point I am sure to most. If your smith is good he will have measured your 700 and knew upfront whether or not he can stake his reputation on it before he puts any time into it.
Just my uninformed, uneducated, 2 cents worth of info. Besided I hadn't made a post yet today </div></div>
Yes SD you make some valid points. I just cant stand it when people try to tell me that a trued factory action is going to peform just as well as a custom action. A very few of them will and your experience is exceptional but how doe they shoot at distance? How do they hold up when you make a mistake reloading and have overcharged the load? I guess its my turn to ask all the questions because I dont know enough about Bolt actions. The actions and r700 used by the military cannot possibly be nothing but the best that rolls off their line and has a good custom barrel on it? I have always like the 700 but its not my action of choice even if I couldnt use a custom action. So why are all you guys saying a trued remington is just as good as a custom?
Somewhere around here there is a answer. Just dont tell me that all the hard work i put into a custom reciever and isnt better then that dam factory action that you have.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SDWhirlwind</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NotAGuru</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DocEd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Explorer, there are quite a few 700 Rems still competing in the IBS Hunter and Varmint Hunter classes. In fact my wife, Sara, won the IBS VH 200-300 Nationals with hers in 2008 and I took 2nd with my 722. A properly trued Rem. will perform as well as a custom. The value upon re-sale is the only valid argument. </div></div>
Sorry doc your way wrong. How many barrels you gonna be able to put on one of those special remys? How are the lugs gonna hold up? You gonna build a RUM or a Lapua on a remy and expect it to hold up for a long time? A custom action is built to print with more lug area more barrel tenon area and way better steel then has ever been through one of those factorys. Why you think they thread lock them all? They were built for one barrel and to be tossed and buy a new one to keep the company going.
You want quality that will last you buy a custom. </div></div>
Be carefull Grasshoppa who you tell are "way wrong" unless you have a real good idea of their background and what they do/have done!!!! Gonna have to disagree a bit with you here. As was pointed out there has probably never been a better test bed for the Remington 700 than our Armed Forces and what they have accomplished with them. The 'thread lock' surely cannot be a valid point for the 700 being a 'disposable' rifle by any means. Granted most semi production customs have tolerances, features and materials a cut or way above a production item but the cost difference should give you nothing less than more bang for your buck so to speak.
Also to become a member here not even a yr ago and then post nearly 1000 posts with questions and comments from admittedly being rifle illiterate to than making a broad statement argueing that a custom receiver has NO benefits over a production receiver is amusing to say the least. As pointed out you can sure get a factory assembled 700 to shoot "a super group" but not many will do it consistently or the line I love so well "all day long if I do my part"!!!!! Had a stainless factory 300Wea sporter that I shot a .180 3 shot group from and numerous 3 shot groups under .4". Have a pitted 222 sporter tube I punched to 22/250AI that has shot a .190 for 3 shots along with other .3ish groups. Would I bet that I or the rifle would do it for money with a witness, not a snowballs chance!!
I have owned and shot probably close to 100 factory or custom barreled 700's over 30+ yrs of gun tradeing, tinkering and hunting. Cannot remember ONE of the factory barreled actions that shot really bad. Had owned a handfull that shot as good as or better than most any custom action/barrel combo that could be bought so a super accurate factory 700 barreled action has definetely been built. However most average 3/4-1" for a 3 shot group, go to 5 and shoot several groups on the same target and you will see fliers etc from factory barreled actions. Not bad but damn sure rarely not a combo for winning a match like DocEd mentions. His point should surely be considered that an excellent smith can build a very accurate rifle from a properly prepared factory Remington 700. It is done every day. A lot more will depend on the quality of the barrel and how it was fit/machined than the brand name on the receiver. I can guarantee you that 95% of us here shooting a custom actioned rifle will get our asses handed to us by the other 5% using a Rem 700 actioned rifle, providing of course that accuracy, barrel quality and smithing is comparable between the 2 prior. Most of us will NEVER be able to drive either to their full potential.
I have only built so far on 1 Stiller Tac30. It is a well thought out piece of art I think and am sure most customs are well worth their asking price. Out of affordability and necessity however the rest of my rifles are 700's. For what I do with them and my skills they serve me perfectly. If I had the money or shot competitively I would more than likely use an aftermarket. The resale is a moot point I am sure to most. If your smith is good he will have measured your 700 and knew upfront whether or not he can stake his reputation on it before he puts any time into it.
Just my uninformed, uneducated, 2 cents worth of info. Besided I hadn't made a post yet today
Yes SD you make some valid points. I just cant stand it when people try to tell me that a trued factory action is going to peform just as well as a custom action. A very few of them will and your experience is exceptional but how doe they shoot at distance? How do they hold up when you make a mistake reloading and have overcharged the load? I guess its my turn to ask all the questions because I dont know enough about Bolt actions. The actions and r700 used by the military cannot possibly be nothing but the best that rolls off their line and has a good custom barrel on it? I have always like the 700 but its not my action of choice even if I couldnt use a custom action. So why are all you guys saying a trued remington is just as good as a custom?
Somewhere around here there is a answer. Just dont tell me that all the hard work i put into a custom reciever and isnt better then that dam factory action that you have.
Re: Custom Actions
You obviously have your mind made up. That can be a good thing. When your actions have been around as long, and proven themselves, as have Rem. and Win. actions, your opinion will be worth that much more. Meanwhile I'll keep my eye peeled for your name in the match results.
Good Shootin'.
You obviously have your mind made up. That can be a good thing. When your actions have been around as long, and proven themselves, as have Rem. and Win. actions, your opinion will be worth that much more. Meanwhile I'll keep my eye peeled for your name in the match results.
Good Shootin'.
Re: Custom Actions
And nor did I mean to spark any rants or raves over this. Sorry for not being able to word myself better but what im trying to say is that you get out of the gun what you put into it. Yes a r700 should be very accurate when done by the proper smith. You can come visit our place and watch what we do if you want proof we can hang with or out do even the best of them. If my 12 years experience machining does not qualify as enough experience working with factory actions vs custom actions then i will let this one go for now...
Cheers and good shooting to you as well.
And nor did I mean to spark any rants or raves over this. Sorry for not being able to word myself better but what im trying to say is that you get out of the gun what you put into it. Yes a r700 should be very accurate when done by the proper smith. You can come visit our place and watch what we do if you want proof we can hang with or out do even the best of them. If my 12 years experience machining does not qualify as enough experience working with factory actions vs custom actions then i will let this one go for now...
Cheers and good shooting to you as well.
Re: Custom Actions
There are always trade offs.
I would recommend reading this web page:
http://www.6mmbr.com/actions.html
And I would recommend reading this book about ~ 100 different bolt action designs:
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=120294&t=11082005
That book may be hard to find.
There are always trade offs.
I would recommend reading this web page:
http://www.6mmbr.com/actions.html
And I would recommend reading this book about ~ 100 different bolt action designs:
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=120294&t=11082005
That book may be hard to find.
Re: Custom Actions
A trued up Remington will compete with anything, it's just by the time you spend the money to get it there you coulda had a custom. Not to mention trigger carriers are slicker then cat poo and who doesnt like a side bolt release with a custom?
One not mentioned so far is Stiller's Predator action and also his TAC series. I have BATs on my bench rifles and a Predator on my field rifle and the Predator doesnt shoot that bad in comparison. If you are planning a 338 LM, or any other case with a Rigby boltface, I would strongly recommend a custom action with a larger diameter bolt. Just about all the manufactures offer a beefed up action for just this purpose.
Later
Rob
A trued up Remington will compete with anything, it's just by the time you spend the money to get it there you coulda had a custom. Not to mention trigger carriers are slicker then cat poo and who doesnt like a side bolt release with a custom?
One not mentioned so far is Stiller's Predator action and also his TAC series. I have BATs on my bench rifles and a Predator on my field rifle and the Predator doesnt shoot that bad in comparison. If you are planning a 338 LM, or any other case with a Rigby boltface, I would strongly recommend a custom action with a larger diameter bolt. Just about all the manufactures offer a beefed up action for just this purpose.
Later
Rob
Re: Custom Actions
Ive got both,
Remington trued by Jered & a Lawton action
Im very happy with both of them!
My first build was off a Remington only because the custom actions I was looking at the time was very expensive. I found out their is a cost alternative and companies like Lawton, Stiller and recently Surgeon (when they came out with their round action). I would have gone with one of them first but my Remington shoots far better than I will be able to.
My Lawton is a single shot thats a little tight but thats ok because im not using it for field use. Im very happy with it. Ive havent had a chance to "group it" at 100yds but my intital sight in at 50yds had 3 shots into a .003 group the 1 ragged hole measured .287. Im very happy with my Lawton custom action.
Ive got both,
Remington trued by Jered & a Lawton action
Im very happy with both of them!
My first build was off a Remington only because the custom actions I was looking at the time was very expensive. I found out their is a cost alternative and companies like Lawton, Stiller and recently Surgeon (when they came out with their round action). I would have gone with one of them first but my Remington shoots far better than I will be able to.
My Lawton is a single shot thats a little tight but thats ok because im not using it for field use. Im very happy with it. Ive havent had a chance to "group it" at 100yds but my intital sight in at 50yds had 3 shots into a .003 group the 1 ragged hole measured .287. Im very happy with my Lawton custom action.
Re: Custom Actions
Have you seen this? http://www.6mmbr.com/actions.html Good place to start.
BAT seems to be the creme de la creme in the benchrest world. I chose the new Surgeon remington clone and a Phoenix Machine action for the two hunting/tactical rifles I'm building.
Have you seen this? http://www.6mmbr.com/actions.html Good place to start.
BAT seems to be the creme de la creme in the benchrest world. I chose the new Surgeon remington clone and a Phoenix Machine action for the two hunting/tactical rifles I'm building.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: Custom Actions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scooter-PIE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have you seen this? http://www.6mmbr.com/actions.html Good place to start.
BAT seems to be the creme de la creme in the benchrest world. I chose the new Surgeon remington clone and a Phoenix Machine action for the two hunting/tactical rifles I'm building. </div></div>
Nice source
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scooter-PIE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have you seen this? http://www.6mmbr.com/actions.html Good place to start.
BAT seems to be the creme de la creme in the benchrest world. I chose the new Surgeon remington clone and a Phoenix Machine action for the two hunting/tactical rifles I'm building. </div></div>
Nice source
Re: Custom Actions
I dont understand why every one says that by the time you have the work done to a rem 700 action you will have just as much money into it as a custom. I buy new rem 700 actions for 400 bucks. My smith charges 250 to true up my action, and chamber a new barrel, and install the barrel. So if i split that in half I will say my smith charges 125 bucks to true up my action. Thats only 525. I guess i need to add the recoil lug, thats another 35 bucks. so i have 565 bucks in my action. Were can i buy a custom for 600 bucks? Lee
I dont understand why every one says that by the time you have the work done to a rem 700 action you will have just as much money into it as a custom. I buy new rem 700 actions for 400 bucks. My smith charges 250 to true up my action, and chamber a new barrel, and install the barrel. So if i split that in half I will say my smith charges 125 bucks to true up my action. Thats only 525. I guess i need to add the recoil lug, thats another 35 bucks. so i have 565 bucks in my action. Were can i buy a custom for 600 bucks? Lee
Re: Custom Actions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skeetlee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I dont understand why ..... My smith charges 250 to true up my action, and chamber a new barrel, and install the barrel.</div></div>
Look around and you'll find that your smith is exceptionally cheap on pricing.
And if you want to compare prices with custom actions, you should include all of the parts/services to make it on par with a custom action.
Side Bolt Release
Sleeve Bolt
Bush Firing Pin
etc.
If you don't want/care about those features, fine, but a simple trued 700 is not on par with most custom actions.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skeetlee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I dont understand why ..... My smith charges 250 to true up my action, and chamber a new barrel, and install the barrel.</div></div>
Look around and you'll find that your smith is exceptionally cheap on pricing.
And if you want to compare prices with custom actions, you should include all of the parts/services to make it on par with a custom action.
Side Bolt Release
Sleeve Bolt
Bush Firing Pin
etc.
If you don't want/care about those features, fine, but a simple trued 700 is not on par with most custom actions.
Re: Custom Actions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skeetlee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I dont understand why every one says that by the time you have the work done to a rem 700 action you will have just as much money into it as a custom. I buy new rem 700 actions for 400 bucks. My smith charges 250 to true up my action, and chamber a new barrel, and install the barrel. So if i split that in half I will say my smith charges 125 bucks to true up my action. Thats only 525. I guess i need to add the recoil lug, thats another 35 bucks. so i have 565 bucks in my action. Were can i buy a custom for 600 bucks? Lee </div></div>
What level of trueing is being done for $125? If he is facing the reciever recutting the threads squaring the lugs etc for $125 you are getting an amazing deal typically it is $250-$300.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skeetlee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I dont understand why every one says that by the time you have the work done to a rem 700 action you will have just as much money into it as a custom. I buy new rem 700 actions for 400 bucks. My smith charges 250 to true up my action, and chamber a new barrel, and install the barrel. So if i split that in half I will say my smith charges 125 bucks to true up my action. Thats only 525. I guess i need to add the recoil lug, thats another 35 bucks. so i have 565 bucks in my action. Were can i buy a custom for 600 bucks? Lee </div></div>
What level of trueing is being done for $125? If he is facing the reciever recutting the threads squaring the lugs etc for $125 you are getting an amazing deal typically it is $250-$300.
Re: Custom Actions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rijndael</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rijndael</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
skeetlee said:
Re: Custom Actions
Lee, that's about what i pay, too. nevertheless, i will have a Lawton one day, but not because it is cheaper to build, but because i want one. but for now, i'll happily run the cleaned up 700s.
i've seen a Ruger bolt stop installed on a R700 and it looked nice.
Lee, that's about what i pay, too. nevertheless, i will have a Lawton one day, but not because it is cheaper to build, but because i want one. but for now, i'll happily run the cleaned up 700s.
i've seen a Ruger bolt stop installed on a R700 and it looked nice.
Re: Custom Actions
Here a guy has built a 7x57mm on a $3k Mauser action from Satterlee:
link to build thread with pics
http://www.satterleearms.com/
Here a guy has built a 7x57mm on a $3k Mauser action from Satterlee:
link to build thread with pics
http://www.satterleearms.com/
Re: Custom Actions
I here that! I would love to have one myself. My smith is a well known smith here on the hide. He does exceptional work!!! Lee
I here that! I would love to have one myself. My smith is a well known smith here on the hide. He does exceptional work!!! Lee
Re: Custom Actions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
He was willing to build on whatever action, but do I want the one he has built thousands with or the one he has built 100 or so with...
</div></div>
What does that matter? Its all the same thing when it comes down to it no matter what your working on. A custom does not need truing done to it before its chambered. Thats why you pay more money for them...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
He was willing to build on whatever action, but do I want the one he has built thousands with or the one he has built 100 or so with...
</div></div>
What does that matter? Its all the same thing when it comes down to it no matter what your working on. A custom does not need truing done to it before its chambered. Thats why you pay more money for them...
Re: Custom Actions
That's not always the truth.
There are a lot of 'customs" that need a little tweeking prior to barreling.
Alan
That's not always the truth.
There are a lot of 'customs" that need a little tweeking prior to barreling.
Alan
Re: Custom Actions
Yes maybe a small ammount. My point was it shouldn't matter which one he decides to use the processes are all the same. Sorry should have clarified that more. Some people have ideas about what works and what doesnt. Alot of opinion is in their. But yes you are very right.
Yes maybe a small ammount. My point was it shouldn't matter which one he decides to use the processes are all the same. Sorry should have clarified that more. Some people have ideas about what works and what doesnt. Alot of opinion is in their. But yes you are very right.
Re: Custom Actions
If you get a $600 action from Montana Rifle company http://www.montanarifleman.com/shortaction.htmhttp://www.montanarifleman.com/shortaction.htm
That will take some truing.
A factory Rem798 will require truing.
If you get a $600 action from Montana Rifle company http://www.montanarifleman.com/shortaction.htmhttp://www.montanarifleman.com/shortaction.htm
That will take some truing.
A factory Rem798 will require truing.
Re: Custom Actions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you get a $600 action from Montana Rifle company http://www.montanarifleman.com/shortaction.htmhttp://www.montanarifleman.com/shortaction.htm
That will take some truing.</div></div>
Your right. However that action is marketed toward hunting rifles and very pretty safe queens. I was a little worried when I ordered my action because I spent a fair amount of money on it and didnt want to have it trued. When Dave from PAI called to tell me it was going into coating, I aked him if it needed any furter truing. All they had to do was Lapp the lugs on it and it was good to go. You all know Jered is very picky on what leaves his shop. If it needed trued it would have been done, but in this case it didnt need it. American Precision Guarntee is .0002 tolerances and David said it was within that area.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you get a $600 action from Montana Rifle company http://www.montanarifleman.com/shortaction.htmhttp://www.montanarifleman.com/shortaction.htm
That will take some truing.</div></div>
Your right. However that action is marketed toward hunting rifles and very pretty safe queens. I was a little worried when I ordered my action because I spent a fair amount of money on it and didnt want to have it trued. When Dave from PAI called to tell me it was going into coating, I aked him if it needed any furter truing. All they had to do was Lapp the lugs on it and it was good to go. You all know Jered is very picky on what leaves his shop. If it needed trued it would have been done, but in this case it didnt need it. American Precision Guarntee is .0002 tolerances and David said it was within that area.
