Gunsmithing Cutting your own quality barrel and saving money?

[Elxx]

I need some straight answers.

I was thinking of buying a barrel blank (no contour) and giving my friend whatever measurements he needs to contour, thread and crown it. He is not a gunsmith, he is a mechanical engineer who regularly works with similar requirements on a lathe. I trust him to not f*ck up.

The real question is, will the end result be anything near what the big names can produce(krieger, shilen) or will it be Remington quality? I'm still questioning whether the money i save on it will be worth it, but for now i'm just questioning the quality.

 

[BigBlue&Goldie]

Re: Cutting your own quality barrel and saving money?

The blank will have to come from Shilen, Krieger, Bartlein, etc., so I don't understand your question?

If you think he has the tools and machining abilities of a veteran gunsmith, then it should turn out fine. Is it really worth risking a $300+ blank in order to save $200......we can't make that call.

 

[jbmillard]

Re: Cutting your own quality barrel and saving money?

I think you would be much better off paying a barrel maker to give you the contour you want. Then you would have the best of both worlds -- it would be right and the way you want it.

Of course, you're paying more money eliminate your risk (e.g. your friend makes a mistake and messes up an expensive barrel).

I just checked -- Pac-Nor will do a custom contour for $35. That seems hard to beat.

Brad

 

[Bill Larson]

Re: Cutting your own quality barrel and saving money?

if you`re buying anything but straight 1-1/4" contour let the barrel maker do it..... if problems develop.... and they do...the b.maker is more apt to stand behind his work.

 

[2156SMK]

Re: Cutting your own quality barrel and saving money?

The cost difference between a straight blank and a contoured blank is minimal.
I don't think you really save any money when you consider that your buddy will have to do all the work.
Does he actually work for free?
If so, I got some jobs I'll send him to see how his quality is...

Does he already have a way to put the final finish on the outside of the barrel after contouring?

 

[colchester]

Re: Cutting your own quality barrel and saving money?

I will also advise the same as others have. I would only contour a blank if I had no other option. I have done a couple and it can be a little difficult to get around the chatter. I had an opportunity to visit with a barrel maker a few years ago and he was nice enough to give me some tips on tool form and speeds and feeds for turning. I find it much easier to turn profiles on a barrel now but I would still recommend against it all things being equal.

 

[raythemanroe]

Re: Cutting your own quality barrel and saving money?

I would like to add something.. I believe you may want to check but your not supposed to contour a barrel after it is rifled unless it is a cut barrel..Hart, Lija are button and need to be contoured first or you cans screw up the inside dimensions..So I have heard..

 

[raythemanroe]

Re: Cutting your own quality barrel and saving money?

I would like to add something.. I believe you may want to check but your not supposed to contour a barrel after it is rifled unless it is a cut barrel..Hart, Lija are button and need to be contoured first or you cans screw up the inside dimensions..So I have heard..

 

[stangfish]

Re: Cutting your own quality barrel and saving money?

Yep, that long small diameter stainless likes to chater. Does he have a follow rest on his lathe?

 

[wtopace]

Re: Cutting your own quality barrel and saving money?

I don't want to derail this thread too much, but has anyone tried contouring with a vertical shear bit for the finishing passes?

http://www.gadgetbuilder.com/VerticalShearBit.html

I claim ignorance because I have never contoured a barrel before, but it would be interesting to try.

 

[Elxx]

Re: Cutting your own quality barrel and saving money?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stangfish</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yep, that long small diameter stainless likes to chater. Does he have a follow rest on his lathe? </div></div>

Not sure, I'd have to head to the machine shop tomorrow before work and see.

I think I have received a number of PMs to let me know that this probably isn't a great idea. The money I could save isn't enough for me to consider the risk.

If I do end up going through with it, I'll make sure to update this thread with info and pictures for the next guy that wants to make the same mistake =)

EDIT: If anyone else has input, keep it coming. I will still keep this option on the table for the next few days before I commit to anything.

 

[rkgsmith]

Re: Cutting your own quality barrel and saving money?

Personally wouldn't take a chance putting that much heat into the blank. I sent a blank to Compass lake and they profiled it for about 100 bucks, but it was in a enclosed CNC lathe that flooded it with coolant. I wouldn't take the chance for the money your going save. Rifles are expensive, if you don't have the money to do it right you surely don't have it to do it again. Just my .02

 

[Rhys]

Re: Cutting your own quality barrel and saving money?

I have the capability to profile my own blanks, and very very rarely do so. The cost difference between an unturned blank and a contoured blank is so little it isn't worth it. The last one I contoured was because I was looking to duplicate a specific contour from an older safari rifle, and I got a deal I couldn't turn down on the unturned blank.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Cutting your own quality barrel and saving money?

It's doable. I've done seveal and I'm not a gunsmith. Mostly I buy the blanks with a coutour to close to what I want. They arn't that much more expensive.

But I have used unturned blanks and make some pretty good target rifles.

When turning just make sure you set the taper right and don't let the barrel get hot.

This one started out as an unturned blank, turned out to be one fine shooting 1000 Yard Match rifle.

 

[Frank]

Re: Cutting your own quality barrel and saving money?

Do your buddy a favor and get a contoured barrel. Save him a lot of the work. Let him thread, chamber, and crown.

 

[LRI]

Re: Cutting your own quality barrel and saving money?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Elxx</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I need some straight answers.

I was thinking of buying a barrel blank (no contour) and giving my friend whatever measurements he needs to contour, thread and crown it. He is not a gunsmith, he is a mechanical engineer who regularly works with similar requirements on a lathe. I trust him to not f*ck up.

The real question is, will the end result be anything near what the big names can produce(krieger, shilen) or will it be Remington quality? I'm still questioning whether the money i save on it will be worth it, but for now i'm just questioning the quality.

</div></div>


If you start with a quality blank (meaning made by a marquee company like the ones you mentioned) then there's no reason to think your buddy can't make it work.

It largely depends on his skill set in a machine shop. A barrel is a piece of steel. A quality piece of steel because it's had a lot of detail work applied to it in terms of normalizing the material.

It's a great piece of "canvas" to start from.

Being an engineer is no substitute for being comfortable in a machine shop though. Being a fighter pilot doesn't make you a crew chief. . .

No offense meant, just saying.

Check your setups, know your process, and get to work!

Good luck.

C.

 

[Frank Green]

Re: Cutting your own quality barrel and saving money?

Our cost for a straight 1.250" blank vs. a contoured blank is the same. Our barrels start from a slightly larger diameter. So no matter what we will take at least a clean up cut on it. So from us your not saving any money but having your bud do the work.

Also depends on what he has for equipment. Tracer lathe? Steady/follow rest etc....

Also to my knowledge all button barrel makers cannot contour the blank before button rifling. Why? If the barrel has a contour/shape to it as they pull/push the button thru the blank the different wall thickness will have a huge impact on them trying to maintain any where near a uniform bore and groove size. The steel will expand and relax differently with a contoured barrel.

After button rifling they have to re stress relieve the barrel blank. Any secondary machine work contouring/fluting even crowning the blank if you hit a residual stress point the machining operation can relieve the stress and effect the bore size.

Because we do cut rifling we don't induce any stress into the blank. We contour all of our barrels before reaming and rifling.

The only reason I would consider having your buddy contour the blank for you is if the gun is say a custom hunting rifle and the stock was fitted years ago and is worth several thousand dollars and you need the barrel contour to fit the stock perfectly is the only reason I could see having it done this way.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

 

[raythemanroe]

Re: Cutting your own quality barrel and saving money?

Hart sends there blanks out to your preference of contour with Jo extra charge $0.

 

[Elxx]

Re: Cutting your own quality barrel and saving money?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Frank Green</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Our cost for a straight 1.250" blank vs. a contoured blank is the same. Our barrels start from a slightly larger diameter. So no matter what we will take at least a clean up cut on it. So from us your not saving any money but having your bud do the work.

Also depends on what he has for equipment. Tracer lathe? Steady/follow rest etc....

Also to my knowledge all button barrel makers cannot contour the blank before button rifling. Why? If the barrel has a contour/shape to it as they pull/push the button thru the blank the different wall thickness will have a huge impact on them trying to maintain any where near a uniform bore and groove size. The steel will expand and relax differently with a contoured barrel.

After button rifling they have to re stress relieve the barrel blank. Any secondary machine work contouring/fluting even crowning the blank if you hit a residual stress point the machining operation can relieve the stress and effect the bore size.

Because we do cut rifling we don't induce any stress into the blank. We contour all of our barrels before reaming and rifling.

The only reason I would consider having your buddy contour the blank for you is if the gun is say a custom hunting rifle and the stock was fitted years ago and is worth several thousand dollars and you need the barrel contour to fit the stock perfectly is the only reason I could see having it done this way.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels </div></div>

Well...can't argue with that.