Anybody else waiting on this to get to the states?
- Thread starter abn31c
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Nah, I have a TSO. The TS2 is essentially an aesthetic change of the TS/TSO without the 40SW option. All parts and accessories are interchangeable except holsters.
Which is unbelievably retarded because the biggest single market for that pistol requires 40 S&W.
Honost question...
You believe there are more competitive shooters than recreational?
I'm looking at range toys, I don't compete with pistola's.....
There are for sure more competitive shooters interested in that particular pistol than there are recreational shooters.
You prefer the dot milled rather than frame mount? I ask because I have an s2 milled with sro and shot my buddies ts2 with frame mount, was night and day for me.
From a shooting standpoint I'd prefer frame mount, but other factors considered, no. Frame mount won't be allowed in my division. Also, plenty of Open division 3 gunners prefer slide mount just because the holsters available for frame mounted guns aren't any good for 3 gun stuff.
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IPSC Standard Division and USPSA Limited Division to be exact.
Both of which allow major and minor power factor scoring and no one who gives a shit about winning uses minor power factor loads.
You cannot use 9 mm to make major power factor in both of those divisions. 40 S&W is optimal for major.
CZ's marketing is retarded:
- Create a line of optic ready pistols (P-10, Shadow 2) and not only not include any optic plates with the gun, the plates are never in stock anywhere
- Create an optics ready version of the Shadow 2 for the most popular USPSA division and the pistol is never in stock
- Create a "competition" version of the P-10 with all these "features"
- An extended slide release (irrelevant for USPSA) that your hand rides on and keeps the slide from locking back anyway
- A longer barrel and slide that gives the pistol a longer sight radius that is irrelevant when the most popular USPSA division is carry optics which requires an optical sight
- Expensive aluminum base plates that don't extend the magazine and add capacity when the most popular USPSA division (carry optics) allows extended magazines to 141 mm in length
- Not include any optic mounting plates even though the pistol is cut to accept them
I don't think anyone is shooting 40SW outside of the US. I agree with you though.
You'd be wrong
Standard Division
- No optic/electronic sights are permitted
- No ports/compensators permitted
- Minimum calibre for major 10mm/.40
- No minimum trigger pull
- Restrictions on holster positions
- Must fit wholly within the confines of the IPSC box
I know what the rules say. The CZ factory team shoots 9mm and is considered the top shooters. If I'm not mistaken the Euros primarily use 9mm minor because 40SW is largely unavailable.
Especially since the manufacturer is IN Europe in the IPSC regulated area.
It's more like USPSA's rules are retarded.
Why are we STILL requiring .40 SW as the minimum caliber to qualify for major power factor in Limited when all of the most popular OTHER divisions, Open, Production and Carry Optics allow for major scoring with 9mm (either 9mm Major or 9mm Minor scored as Major). 9mm anything is less expensive, makes the crossover pistols make that much more sense (Czechmate, PT Honcho etc.) and for those that also shoot 3 gun it reduces the barrier to having yet another pistol.
Yeah, yeah everyone already has .40 SW Limited guns blah blah. Get with the fucking times crusty boomers and make a rules change already for fucks sake.
The highlighted is wrong
Open is the only division in which 9 mm bore can make major, here or in IPSC
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Beat me to it.
That said, USPSA allows major scoring for revolver division with 9mm/38...but anyone shooting revolver in local matches is shooting against themselves pretty much anymore.
Lol, need a 7 year degree to follow the damn rules. No thanks....
It's really not that bad. And in other shooting sports with thinner rule books, they often default to the USPSA rules whenever someone finds a blind spot in the middle of a match. So make fun of a thorough rule book all you want, but somebody's gotta have one.
Lol, need a 7 year degree to follow the damn rules. No thanks....
USPSA rules are pretty easy to learn and follow. If you're not interested in ever becoming an RO, there are only a few chapters that you should know for your own benefit.
Because of the thoroughness of the rules and the training we Range Officers get, noobs to USPSA enjoy a playing field that has very little subjective judgment and consequently a much more level playing field and FAR less match drama than what you see in the bush leagues (IDPA, outlaw shit, PRS, NRL, etc)
The amount of ignorance and ASSumptions here about the sport is stunning.
So yes, CZ is being a dumbass for not chambering the TS2 in the most popular cartridge for that platform in the most active region of IPSC (the US).
And I don't believe for a second that European shooters (those who are serious anyway) would compete in Standard division with minor ammo. All it takes is one of them to say fuck it and make a shitload of 40 on a 1050 and wreck everyone by shooting As and Cs as fast as possible.
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Honestly, not making fun of anything, but to anyone thinking about trying the game, this thread alone would be off-putting. I'm personally not afraid of rules, and don't mean to come off that way, but you have to admit from the outside looking in it seems overly complicated.
.02
If you're in the US you can ignore half the things posted, since it's about rules differences between IPSC, which is the governing body for the rest of the world, and USPSA which is about all you'll ever see here. With that understood, there isn't much in here worth arguing about and not as much complication as there appears to be.
Complexity of the rules or "intimidated by guys wearing jerseys and race guns" are bullshit excuses for those who don't want to put themselves to the test because they're afraid of how they'll fare.
Fight me
I forgot about revo, just like 99% of the rest of USPSA........................LOL
It’s not that complicated. Each division has its own set of rules, depending on your platform. Start out with a platform that you already have, to learn about the game. Figure out which division really appeals to you and delve into it. It’s not that hard. Got a Glock, Sig, or MP, try production or limited. 1911, single stack. Red dot on a carry gun, carry optics. Don’t even worry about open till you find the goose that laid the golden egg. Just go shoot and have fun. All of the people that I see, that bitch about uspsa, are not uspsa shooters. Most of them, if they would just shut up and go shoot, would have a great time, and improve their pistol skills as well. I’ve been down with foot surgery for 9 weeks and I’m about to loose my freaking mind because I haven’t been to a match. Two weeks baby, two weeks, and I’m back.
Scored via minor power factor sure, so what was the point of that again? Because it's a challenge? or really just an arbitrary classification.
Yeah, that 121 page rulebook is real easy on the eyes
. Fight you?
Rest assured bruh, I've never been of failing at anything, let alone a gun game.
"Fight me".....SMDH.....
Have a nice day Fud....
The rule book is only complicated if you let it be. The rule book keeps everything level, and usually, the rules are in there, because people were doing things to gain a competitive advantage (which, I know, is part of competition), but they need to be in there. You don’t need to know the whole rule book to shoot a match. Just be familiar with the safety stuff so you don’t get DQ’d and go shoot. The people on your squad will help you and explain stuff to you. Pic is added to stay with the CZ theme.
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nice unicorn
Yeah I'd be losing my fucking mind if I couldn't even dry fire for 9 weeks
When you put it that way, I guess?Scored via minor power factor sure, so what was the point of that again? Because it's a challenge? or really just an arbitrary classification.
Yeah, that 121 page rulebook is real easy on the eyes
...or just determine what class you want to shoot and check out the appendices that lay out 90% of what you need to know in a few pages FAQ-style?
What does the green offer over the blue? I see the thumb rest and a different magazine release. Does the green have the barrel bushing up front?
Adjustable mag release, adjustable sights and thumb rest were the only differences I remember noticing last time I looked into it.
I really like that they went to a flat thumb rest. Not big on the 1 on my TSO.
Is this going to be a custom shop pistol order?
What the fuck are YOU talking about?
Har har CZ Is sTuPiD.
That's really it? Honestly they already have the TSO in .40 SW which they haven't discontinued. They want you to spend the extra dollars on that orange anodizing. That's pretty straight forward.
Cite every rule by memory or welcome to Open Class
. Nope. Atleast that is what I was told.
It was released as a standard model in Europe when the TS2 first came out. They more or less choose to hold on releasing to the US to drive a little more interest/sales.
When I shoot it's production, so:Cite every rule by memory or welcome to Open Class
-Holster and mag pouches at or behind the hips (can't be magnetic/stick-on type mag holders either if I'm not mistaken)
-No race-style holsters
-Gun has to be stock by appearance (you're allowed internal mods, connectors, aftermarket barrels to some degree, etc.)
-Forget what the mag length restriction is, but run a factory length mag and you'll be fine
-Forget what the exact weight limit is, but don't add aftermarket weights to it and you'll be fine
-No lights, lasers, or other tacticool gadgets hung off the end
-Notch and post style sights
-10 rounds in the mag at the start signal
That's just off the top of my head, but is more or less the essence of "production" - anything beyond that is just fine print I don't concern myself with because I'm not a national-level competitor with $$$ on the line or whatever. I just shoot local matches because it's fun and is halfway useful compared to static ranges.
I know your comment was more than likely rhetorical, but my point is it's only difficult if you make it difficult.
Back in the late '70's and the early '80's... the CZ75 was one of the few high-capacity, well-built, reliable DA/SA guns out there.
Berlin Special Forces guys loved them. They were head and shoulders above everything except maybe the Hi Power. But Hi Power was NATO... so... Nein! That left P-38's... odd shit like Radom's... And Astra's. Which were made by people using their toes instead of a bench vice. So all of those were POS's...
Here was the East-Bloc Wonder-9 with DA and big mag? Well DUH!!!
CZ has an amazing history. Not just in Cz.
I still want an early shortrail. But finding one is a bitch. Noone wants to give them up.
Sirhr
Berlin Special Forces guys loved them. They were head and shoulders above everything except maybe the Hi Power. But Hi Power was NATO... so... Nein! That left P-38's... odd shit like Radom's... And Astra's. Which were made by people using their toes instead of a bench vice. So all of those were POS's...
Here was the East-Bloc Wonder-9 with DA and big mag? Well DUH!!!
CZ has an amazing history. Not just in Cz.
I still want an early shortrail. But finding one is a bitch. Noone wants to give them up.
Sirhr
All the changes to production from last year in red. It's still a dying division. Production will likely be down nationally to where single stack is in about 3 - 4 years.
In my local area, production is effectively dead
Ok let me explain it. You don't know what you're talking about when it comes to power factor.
No, you keep switching what you are bitching about.
My point was: USPSA's caliber restriction for Limited major power factor is arbitrary. Standardize to 9mm minor across most divisions (except 1911 single stack or revolver) and be done with it.
Wait, why exclude single stack and revo?
Let's stop being arbitrary except where I think it's OK to be arbitrary.................LOLGTFO
I mean, your entire asinine thread derail was based on your lack of knowledge of CZ's model line up ISN'T also?
Did you also bitch when STI/Stacato came out with the STI DVC 3-Gun model too.
We all know damn well the Single Stack 1911 crowd will never want to change from .45 AARP.
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Yer arguing with a rock...I mean, your entire asinine thread derail was based on your lack of knowledge of CZ's model line up ISN'T also?
Did you also bitch when STI/Stacato came out with the STI DVC 3-Gun model too.
We all know damn well the Single Stack 1911 crowd will never want to change from .45 AARP.
Jusayin....
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