Suppressors Dead Air Sandman K vs Nomad vs ???

[lawofsavage]

I know these comparison threads get old but I feel like I'm an idiot when it comes to suppressor knowledge so I wanted to see what you guys would do in my situation.

This is mostly going to be used to stick on the end of my home defense ar, to stick on an ar if I wanted to have one while out on the timber land/ deer land walking and riding around in a utv, and just to have fun with.

I don't know why I think weight and length is a big deal because I cant really think of a scenario where I will be carrying it around for long periods of time


I'm getting sort of long winded already but my thinking is that 99.9% of the time I'll be wearing ear pro anyway because I'm almost always going to be around other people without suppressors so I might as well go with something light and short so I'll use it more and the sandman k seems to have decent performance for its size and weight

I was almost set on the nomad but it's already over 14 ounces then you add the over 4 ounce Key-mo adaptor then a couple ounces for a brake and it gets pretty heavy

the guns it will be used on are 5.56 ar's anywhere from 10.5" to 18" all with adjustable gas, 6.5 Creed ar with adjustable gas, and bolt hunting and match rifles.

I feel like on the ar's that the at the ear sound can come down a little from the numbers you see if I add the e-brake and tune the adjustable gas really well for it

Anyway, I've got analysis paralysis like i do on most purchases so I wanted to see what you guys would recommend given the above

 

[Longbow06]

I have the Sandman K, Sandman S, SiCo Hybrid, and half a dozen TBAC cans. Haven't tried the Nomad yet, but I like what I've heard. The Dead Air cans live on my AR-15 SBRs (10.3, 11.5, and 14.5). I found the Sandman K to be a better fit on the 14.5 where there is less unburned powder and muzzle blast than on the 10.3 and 11.5, where the Sandman S works best. I recently put the E Brake on the K, which lowered the dB and reduced recoil, and I think I like that configuration the best.
The Sandman S weighs in at 17.7 oz plus brake/flash hider, and I don't feel that weight is excessive. For a can that can take more abuse than either of us can dish out in a lifetime, I heartily endorse the Sandman series.

 

[Srikaleak]

For an all purpose can, Sandman S all the way. If you've already got a few cans you can go niche with a shorty K can. Personally, I was paranoid running my titanium TBAC on my SBR because of the heat "rating" on Titanium suppressors, so I got a Sandman S. I don't know what the stipulations are on Dead Air titanium suppressors like the Nomad. But reflecting on the cost and, especially, time investment, I don't want to take any chances.
I wouldn't put an emphasis on suppressor length, especially if you're only hitting 18". I run a TBAC 9 on a 22" AR10 just fine.

Don't get me wrong, TBAC would work for me as the limit is well up there at 800 deg F. But I still don't want to risk it.

 

[Huskydriver]

For an all purpose can, Sandman S all the way. If you've already got a few cans you can go niche with a shorty K can. Personally, I was paranoid running my titanium TBAC on my SBR because of the heat "rating" on Titanium suppressors, so I got a Sandman S. I don't know what the stipulations are on Dead Air titanium suppressors like the Nomad. But reflecting on the cost and, especially, time investment, I don't want to take any chances.
I wouldn't put an emphasis on suppressor length, especially if you're only hitting 18". I run a TBAC 9 on a 22" AR10 just fine.

Don't get me wrong, TBAC would work for me as the limit is well up there at 800 deg F. But I still don't want to risk it.

The normad is 17-4 ss not TI. The endcap and mount are TI....I shoot both regularly and unless full auto is your game on an sbr...I would get the nomad everytime...

 

[Srikaleak]

Oh, my apologies. I thought the Nomad line were their Titanium offerings. Decisions, decisions...

 

[lawofsavage]

The reason I’m sort of thinking I might as well go sandman k is the at the ear numbers on an ar I’m seeing are very similar for sandman k and nomad but the nomad does beat the sandman k by a lot for at the muzzle numbers based on this test:



For the extra size and weight, what’s the pros to the muzzle db’s being lower compared to the at the ear numbers If its mostly being shot on an ar with occasional bolt usage where I could see the muzzle numbers mattering a lot more

Basically, both the sandman k and nomad are going to be in the 146 dB range on ar’s according to those guys

 

[TxWelder35]

If this is always going to live on a gas gun I'd go OSS Helix

 

[lawofsavage]

Definitely looking at those and I like them a lot

Obviously, I think it’s a benefit to not have much of a change in back-pressure so you can run the can with minimal changes especially in some types of semis where adjusting the gas system is impractical

I do think that is a big benefit but I also think imo the dead air nomad outperforms it in every other way so I’m not sure if that one benefit is worth giving performance in several other areas

Don’t know much about this and that’s why I’m asking but that’s my opinion based on a tiny amount of research but I 100% know I’d be happy with either

 

[Huskydriver]

Definitely looking at those and I like them a lot

Obviously, I think it’s a benefit to not have much of a change in back-pressure so you can run the can with minimal changes especially in some types of semis where adjusting the gas system is impractical

I do think that is a big benefit but I also think imo the dead air nomad outperforms it in every other way so I’m not sure if that one benefit is worth giving performance in several other areas

Don’t know much about this and that’s why I’m asking but that’s my opinion based on a tiny amount of research but I 100% know I’d be happy with either

I'm telling you I have shot both side by side... The nomad sounds better ? but it's your money

 

[lawofsavage]

I guess my main question is if most suppressors are going to be around the 145 dB range at the ear on a 5.56 DI AR 16" +- a few dB's, what is the point of going bigger and heavier if at the ear numbers are what is important to you after reliability, size, weight, etc ... even if by going bigger and longer you get significantly quieter at the muzzle but the at the ear numbers are still in the 145 dB range?

 

[TxWelder35]

Definitely looking at those and I like them a lot

Obviously, I think it’s a benefit to not have much of a change in back-pressure so you can run the can with minimal changes especially in some types of semis where adjusting the gas system is impractical

I do think that is a big benefit but I also think imo the dead air nomad outperforms it in every other way so I’m not sure if that one benefit is worth giving performance in several other areas

Don’t know much about this and that’s why I’m asking but that’s my opinion based on a tiny amount of research but I 100% know I’d be happy with either

Really the biggest benefit is that you aren't going to be eating gas every time you shoot.

I don't know why everyone gets so picky about a few decibel + or - either way it's gonna be a world of difference compared to shooting unsupressed. I go with whichever can works best for your application size/weight/function wise and not worry so much about couple dB of difference that you most likely will never notice.

 

[Huskydriver]

I guess my main question is if most suppressors are going to be around the 145 dB range at the ear on a 5.56 DI AR 16" +- a few dB's, what is the point of going bigger and heavier if at the ear numbers are what is important to you after reliability, size, weight, etc ... even if by going bigger and longer you get significantly quieter at the muzzle but the at the ear numbers are still in the 145 dB range?

The biggest factor is durability. Grade 5 TI and even 17-4 can't hold up to the temp range that stellite and inconel can which are both much heavier metals.

 

[LeadZeke]

The problem is you didn't pay attention to the host in the test OP. They are testing worst case, big commercial gas port with no adjustable gas block. Watch what happens when you add an adjustable gas block to even an SBR and suppress:



Now you are down around 140db at the ear. And the suppressor choice starts to make a lot more difference. So no, the "K" cans won't sound the same to the shooter as the S or Nomad on a properly set up AR. Suppressed Nation will do a roundup with an adjustable gas block in the future supposedly, so stay tuned for that.

Also, keep in mind that anything over ~146db at the muzzle is going to splash back to the ear. In other words, if you are over 146db at the muzzle it will be louder than the ejection port and invalidate the at the ear numbers you get from there. And the Sandman K (and an OSS, which is a terrible choice for your situation) is certainly over 146db on some of the hosts you are describing in your OP (like the 6.5CM).

So TL;DR- make sure all ARs have adjustable gas blocks (which it sounds like you've done already) and get the Dead Air Nomad. Best combo for your situation.

 

[lawofsavage]

I'm glad I asked this question now, I knew the adjustable gas block would make a difference but not that big of a difference.

Going with the nomad even though it will damn near be heavier and almost as long as a sandman l once you add key mo, muzzle brake, and e brake haha but sounds like it will be worth it for me if I can possibly get under 140 db at the ear with any of my ar set ups which would make me a very happy guy haha

 

[LeadZeke]

Glad to help, and it was good you clarified your sources .

You will be below the 140db at the ear mark with that setup. I'll let you know though you don't need the E-brake to achieve that! The added weight/length isn't really justified for your goals, so I wouldn't bother with the E-brake. The flash hider end caps are very nice.

 

[Gtscotty]

I'm glad I asked this question now, I knew the adjustable gas block would make a difference but not that big of a difference.

Going with the nomad even though it will damn near be heavier and almost as long as a sandman l once you add key mo, muzzle brake, and e brake haha but sounds like it will be worth it for me if I can possibly get under 140 db at the ear with any of my ar set ups which would make me a very happy guy haha

That's the nice thing about the Nomad being modular on the back end, it can be as long and as heavy as a Sandman L if that's how you want to set it up, or it can be lighter and shorter than the S. I don't plan on ever putting a Key-Mo on my Nomad, too heavy and too long. My plan is to run my Nomad with the free Griffin Plan-A mount I got through their Nomad promotion, if I don't like that for some reason, I may try the Plan-B or Area 419 mounts. All three of those are pretty light and short, I also like DT cans, so that's an option as well.

The only K can that caught my eye in the Silencer Showdown videos was the Turbo K. The other K cans were only an inch or two shorter and marginally lighter than the much, much quieter midsize options.

 

[Longbow06]

I'm glad I asked this question now, I knew the adjustable gas block would make a difference but not that big of a difference.

Going with the nomad even though it will damn near be heavier and almost as long as a sandman l once you add key mo, muzzle brake, and e brake haha but sounds like it will be worth it for me if I can possibly get under 140 db at the ear with any of my ar set ups which would make me a very happy guy haha

Good call going with the Nomad. Even on my fixed gas block ARs, the Sandman S is noticeably quieter at the ear than the K. The Nomad would be a great multi-purpose solution, and I would pick one up if I wasn't already good for .30 cal cans.

 

[JB.IC]

How much OAL does the Sandman S add?
I’m not familiar with key-mo but the Sandman K claims it only adds 2.9”

 

[LeadZeke]

That is 2.9" past the end of the muzzle device, not the muzzle. Generally take the suppressor length and subtrack about 1/2in and that is the length added past the muzzle. Varies by .1-.2in depending on the exact brand, like my K is almost dead on -.6in from its length is the "added length" past the muzzle.

 

[5RWill]

I've been back and forth on the Sandman K and Micro 30 for the last month and keep coming back to the micro 30 personally. My intended use will be on my 11.5" 5.56, 8.3" 300blk, and 14.5" mid length. Db reduction according to what test i could find seems to better than the Sandman K and i can't help but notice most sandman K owners talk about how loud it is on shorter ARs, which is understandable for a K config 30 cal can on a short 5.56 I just like the added suppression of the Micro 30. I do like that i could get a NOX for the keymo and do a 13.7 instead of chopping my 16" to 14.5". But yeah i'm personally gonna go rugged just for the ADAPT module. That way if K config is unbearable i can put on the extra baffle and it be somewhat tolerable.

 

[NWnewguy]

If you're just looking for a can primarily for an AR, I think your overspending getting anything other than the YHM Turbo. I wish I had bought one (or more) 6 months ago when I first checked one out at the range. They are awesome and completely capable, and the cost is amazing.

If you're looking for something you can put on a 30cal periodically, then obviously there are better choices. Although I would imagine the YHM Resonator would still have you sorted quite well for a very competitive price.

 

[5RWill]

If you're just looking for a can primarily for an AR, I think your overspending getting anything other than the YHM Turbo. I wish I had bought one (or more) 6 months ago when I first checked one out at the range. They are awesome and completely capable, and the cost is amazing.

If you're looking for something you can put on a 30cal periodically, then obviously there are better choices. Although I would imagine the YHM Resonator would still have you sorted quite well for a very competitive price.

Funny i'm just now seeing this. I started looking at the Turbo K and was pretty astounded. 4.6" can delivering 139/140db on an 11.5" SBR. $355 at that and compatible with my favorite mounts. It came back in stock as SilencerShop and i ordered it Tuesday lol. I just kept thinking hell i've got two 30 cal cans that are great cans (omega/CB9) and a .46 cal can (hybrid). Having a 223 k can makes so much sense for the ARs. With the exception of the 300blk but the omega in the config i have it, is just a little over 6" and weighs 12/13oz.

What i'm having trouble with is deciding on mount. I wanted and still like the idea of KeyMo but it's likely to increase length to nearly 6", granted not sure how much of that will be added to the gun. Weight is another concern. Plan A retains the shortest config at 4.81" followed by plan B at 5.0" If the KeyMo will fit the Nox flash hider on the turbo k and doesn't extend the overall length of the firearm too much despite increasing the length of the can that's hte route i'll go.

 

[Huskydriver]

Keymo is my fav qd mount by far that I have used

 

[lawofsavage]

Are yhm qd mounts serviceable? Those turbo k cans are a heck of a value compared to the other current options imo

 

[5RWill]

Are yhm qd mounts serviceable? Those turbo k cans are a heck of a value compared to the other current options imo

As in detachable to clean like hellfire? Or just serviceable? I'll be selling mine the moment it comes in.

 

[NWnewguy]

As far as what mount to go with; what are you already using? If it's just going on an AR then the YHM mount is fully capable of handling the job. The one I used had the YHM mount and I thought it was pretty good. If you're already set up with Griffin, then I would go with Plan "A". KeyMo is good, but it's also heavy and expensive. It really comes down to what you're already set up for and whether or not you're just going to keep it on ARs.

 

[spearknives]

I own the Sandman S and K, and very happy with them. From what I have read and seen, the nomad is a lightweight can that can hold up to some abuse, but is not the tank (referencing ruggedness, not weight) that the Sandman is. Anything Dead Air puts out is going to be quality, and I really like the mounts. I guess it really boils down to what other suppressors you are considering, and what weapon(s) you plan to use with it. I would, but am an admitted fanboy.

 

[5RWill]

As far as what mount to go with; what are you already using? If it's just going on an AR then the YHM mount is fully capable of handling the job. The one I used had the YHM mount and I thought it was pretty good. If you're already set up with Griffin, then I would go with Plan "A". KeyMo is good, but it's also heavy and expensive. It really comes down to what you're already set up for and whether or not you're just going to keep it on ARs.

My issue is sort of stemming from wanting to pin my 16" to "14.5 or 13.7" I think 13.7" is ruled out no way the NOX fits in there given the room. I just hate the aesthetic of YHMs mounts. Technically i'm on the Hellfire system across the board, but wanted a dedicated brake QD system with this can. Plan A is what i've settled on. Just have to stick with the 16" mid remaining a 16". The Hammer comp and Minimalist brake/FH will fit the Turbo K with the plan A mount.

The other reason i wont go YHM is because the thing is almost an inch longer in that config than the plan A, just adds a lot of length.

 

[MDFMFG]

I have a sandman K, L and a nomad that is currently in jail (any day now hopefully). 90% of the time i am out shooting I run the L. The K is cool on a SBR if you are trying to keep the gun short, however for trying to be quiet it just barely makes the rifle bearable without ear protection. Supposedly the Nomad is shorter, quieter and out preforms the L but I cannot say from personal experience if this is true or not.

 

[5RWill]

I have a sandman K, L and a nomad that is currently in jail (any day now hopefully). 90% of the time i am out shooting I run the L. The K is cool on a SBR if you are trying to keep the gun short, however for trying to be quiet it just barely makes the rifle bearable without ear protection. Supposedly the Nomad is shorter, quieter and out preforms the L but I cannot say from personal experience if this is true or not.

Problem is the K can is 30 cal and on SBRs it just doesn't seem to cut it. That is any 30 cal K can i've seen, they all seem loud AF on SBRs but it's also inherently hard to make an SBR quiet. FWIW the Nomad with a Keymo is actually pretty long. I'd look to plan A to keep it's length down personally. I almost went nomad but then saw you add 1.25" to it with the keymo and thought it was moot.

 

[MDFMFG]

I have run it on my SBR 300 blk with sub sonic and still was unimpressed with how loud the gun was.