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Suppressors Debunk the Bullshit!

M

manion

Private
Minuteman
Mar 1, 2008
13
0
40
Hawaii
Gents, Got a good argument goin with a buddy over the 50GI 185gr. Solid Copper Hollow Point. He's a nay sayer over the price and trying to convince me the round isn't deadly because it doesnt penatrate far into gelatin. But once you see the expansion of the round you'll see why. Never have i seen anything like it. This is a great debate guys. Somebody please help 'Debunk the Bullshit'
http://www.50gi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=247
 
Re: Debunk the Bullshit!

Call me crazy, but I don't take an interest in tests shooting hollow points into BG unless the rounds first go through layers of fabric and/or leather such as would be found in shirts and jackets.
 
Re: Debunk the Bullshit!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: killoften</div><div class="ubbcode-body">He's a nay sayer over the price and trying to convince me the round isn't deadly because it doesnt penatrate far into gelatin.</div></div>

.22's are deadly. .44's are deadly. Bullshit is arguing over the internet on if a firearm will kill you.
 
Re: Debunk the Bullshit!

I don't want to get shot by a sewing needle blown out of a drinking straw...

Now let's see...
180 gr .40 cal is the staple round used, and proven, by Law Enforcement.
Majority of the carried .40 loads are subsonic.


So in contrast we have:

.40 -vs- .50 diameter bullet
180 -vs- 185 grain projectile
950 fps -vs- 1279 fps


Yeah, that .50GI round sure sounds like a dud. Wait. What?



Jack


 
Re: Debunk the Bullshit!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: killoften</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> convince me the round isn't deadly because it doesnt penatrate far into gelatin. </div></div>

Ask him if you can shoot him with one if he's so sure.
 
Re: Debunk the Bullshit!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rrflyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: killoften</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> convince me the round isn't deadly because it doesnt penatrate far into gelatin. </div></div>

Ask him if you can shoot him with one if he's so sure. </div></div>

Thats what I say to 22 nay sayers.

"Go on, stand out there, 22's just bounce off, ... Right?"
 
Re: Debunk the Bullshit!

Well, if I'm shooting a bad guy who has a gun, I would like him to go down quickly -- and I don't believe all calibers and bullets are going to perform the same, shot placement notwithstanding, and target size, physiological condition, and clothing can be factors as well.
 
Re: Debunk the Bullshit!

Had a guy shot twice in the chest with a .40 around here a couple weeks ago.Hospital treated and wanted to release him to the jail a couple of hours later.Jail wouldnt take him.
 
Re: Debunk the Bullshit!

Ah, terminal ballistics.

lots of stuff come into play, kinda like long range shooting.

The cartridge isn't the last word in knock down power.

 
Re: Debunk the Bullshit!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MoneyShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Had a guy shot twice in the chest with a .40 around here a couple weeks ago.Hospital treated and wanted to release him to the jail a couple of hours later.Jail wouldnt take him. </div></div>

+1 I saw a guy take two 180gr .40s in the chest and then have a conversation (more like a shock induced "I was no shooting at YOU buddy") with the shooter. Dropped a lung on the way to medical and took a lot of blood but made a full recovery. Point is he was still very much in the fight had he been so inclined after two very well placed shoots that 99% of the time would have been fatal. Sure I don't want to be shot with a .22 and sure it can be fatal but don't count on a subject going down because you carry good ammo and a so called stopper caliber. The human body is a weird thing and what will kill one before he hits the ground may simply grab the attention of another.

As for the OP comments. Don't get to caught up in trying to right the wrongs you read on the internett. I have my choices in the bullets I like but your well served with any quality bullet of decent caliber that is delivered well by the shooter!
 
Re: Debunk the Bullshit!

I don't care much what it sounds like to you, I witnessed it first hand. You honestly think a subject "won't move and go into unconsences" after taking a hit? Ever heard of the 1986 FBI shoot out? Michael Platt was hit several times and the first round to hit him was fatal yet he managed to fight and kill several officers?

EDIT: BTW I think the shooter is a member here. I will call him and see if he cares to post about it.
 
Re: Debunk the Bullshit!

I'll add a little fuel to the fire as well.

And old timer firearms instructor I know used to say, "Look, son. A bullet is NOT a mystical bolt of lightning from the Heavens. It is a wee piece of metal. Too many things have to happen to turn the "switch" completely off. Never count on your bullets being that switch. Have a plan "B" to fall back on. Unless you found a way to carry a gun that shoots cinderblocks at supersonic speeds...If you do, get me one too."


Jack


 
Re: Debunk the Bullshit!

9" of penetration isn't sufficient in a world where there are many other options available to the gun toter.
 
Re: Debunk the Bullshit!

Repeat after me ,

There is no such thing as a magic bullet

It's ALL about shot placment
 
Re: Debunk the Bullshit!

The thing is is this is kinda out of context. Only a small percentage of incidents,i.e.,the walking dead happen. I bet the majoritiy of fatal wounded do go down for the count. For stopping pistol power,many LE's are returning to the .45's. To brush a couple of these incidents and say pistols aren't cutting it,is wrong.Maybe the Law Enforement sould be arm with long knives. I've seen the new Taser work and its pretty good. Shot placement is key to a quick kill. A shot to the liver is fatal but takes a while,lung shot fatal but takes a while,heart shot,most of the time few seconds,but brain and backbone cord shot is now.
 
Re: Debunk the Bullshit!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C Ward</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Repeat after me ,

There is no such thing as a magic bullet

It's ALL about shot placment </div></div>

But, dude... This is a 50 GI after all. We all know that anything with 50 in the name can stop a tank.
 
Re: Debunk the Bullshit!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hoser</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C Ward</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Repeat after me ,

</div></div>

But, dude... This is a 50 GI after all. We all know that anything with 50 in the name can stop a tank. </div></div>

Man, that was rude. Talkin shit JUST because it's a 50 is just as follish as somebody thinking all 50's are God.
Did you see that link from the top of the Solid Copper HP?! It looks like a satalite with it's pannels open.
Over an inch!
Nobody wanna mention that? The argument is... Should such a round be dissmised because the wound channel did not travel 12-16 inches in gel <span style="font-weight: bold">or</span> should we all be rather excited about a round that pop's open big enough to grab any veins/artieries it comes near?
 
Re: Debunk the Bullshit!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Harold Dale</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The thing is is this is kinda out of context. Only a small percentage of incidents,i.e.,the walking dead happen. I bet the majoritiy of fatal wounded do go down for the count. For stopping pistol power,many LE's are returning to the .45's. To brush a couple of these incidents and say pistols aren't cutting it,is wrong.Maybe the Law Enforement sould be arm with long knives. I've seen the new Taser work and its pretty good. Shot placement is key to a quick kill. A shot to the liver is fatal but takes a while,lung shot fatal but takes a while,heart shot,most of the time few seconds,but brain and backbone cord shot is now. </div></div>

I agree.. The only thing that is "guaranteed" instant is to cut off the CENTRAL NERVOS SYSTEM.
 
Re: Debunk the Bullshit!

internet-soldier.jpg

He doesn't think so. He's gathering information.
 
Re: Debunk the Bullshit!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Megacab</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll add a little fuel to the fire as well. </div></div>

I'll add more...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Harold Dale</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now I know why fatal shot deer just kept on standing and eating grass,smiling away and "\saying," Shoot me some more"!!!!! </div></div>

Ive witnessed people hit with nonfatal wounds fall and not get up. Why? Because they, "got shot." Why does a deer not fall when shot? Because they dont know what mortality is and they dont have a predisposed notion of, "I got shot, this must be it."

As for "fatal hits" that people stayed in the fight with...adrenalin, booze and dope are amazing things. (The vast majority of the time)

As Wil stated, once you engage a target, you stay engaged until it is no longer a threat to you or your team.
 
Re: Debunk the Bullshit!

WTF,you're just piling shit upon shit. Sure people with adrenalin,booze,dope have their systems wired,understand that and that why a lot of the Law enforcement are going back to the .45 cal pistol. If one shoot just about anything in the brain and/or spinal cord,its lights out. I think you're said a bunch of nothing in regard of subject covered!
 
Re: Debunk the Bullshit!

Shaggy knows more about the subject being covered than you can fathom. Best you sit this one out 'fore you get bit.

How many years LEO do you have?? None you say... gotcha.
 
Re: Debunk the Bullshit!

He asked about the fatality of a round.

I'll give you the Clif notes version:

-Just because someone is shot with ANY round, it means nothing. Mindset of the target plays a big factor.

-You ask why deer dont fall when shot. Its bc they dont have a preconceived idea that being shot means death. (people often do)

-Shoot until the threat is over.

*If I am not articulating my point clearly, lemme know. A long week might be playing a factor.
 
Re: Debunk the Bullshit!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Harold Dale</div><div class="ubbcode-body">WTF,you're just piling shit upon shit. Sure people with adrenalin,booze,dope have their systems wired,understand that and that why a lot of the Law enforcement are going back to the .45 cal pistol. If one shoot just about anything in the brain and/or spinal cord,its lights out. I think you're said a bunch of nothing in regard of subject covered! </div></div>

Not all the time.. I do believe that if you are Lucky enough to sever the cord from the brain with a shot its lights out and I don't care how much PCP the guy is on, however there are numerous FACT BASED stories of people being shot in the head and it not fazing them.. Hell there are lots of people that are victims of crime that have been shot in the head and are alive today leading normal lives..
 
Re: Debunk the Bullshit!

Wil,none. But I ain't backing down either. I think the topic of this thread was the .50GI bullet is eneffective as it only penerate the geltin 1or2 inches. My statement is it is still enough to kill. -Shoot until the threat is over. Understand that.I think somewhere along the converstion ,we've got side trck a little bit,thta's all.
 
Re: Debunk the Bullshit!

rgr that HD.

A couple inches of penetration is enough, depending on the real estate.

There's just a lot of factors that go into killin a man, is all I was saying.
 
Re: Debunk the Bullshit!

lol. Way ahead of you. Stone IPA here.
 
Re: Debunk the Bullshit!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shaggyback</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

A couple inches of penetration is enough...</div></div>

Only if you're hung like a tuna can

wink.gif




Jack
 
Re: Debunk the Bullshit!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: killoften</div><div class="ubbcode-body">He's a nay sayer over the price and trying to convince me the round isn't deadly because it doesnt penatrate far into gelatin.</div></div>

.22's are deadly. .44's are deadly. Bullshit is arguing over the internet on if a firearm will kill you.
</div></div>

I got to go with LoneWolf on this one. However, if the differences of opinion cease to exist on this subject maybe we can move on to something like "what is the most effective sex act to get a nut". In the mean time I'll leave this discusion to the experts
grin.gif
.
 
Re: Debunk the Bullshit!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Harold Dale</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wil,none. But I ain't backing down either. I think the topic of this thread was the .50GI bullet is eneffective as it only penerate the geltin 1or2 inches. My statement is it is still enough to kill. -Shoot until the threat is over. Understand that.I think somewhere along the converstion ,we've got side trck a little bit,thta's all. </div></div>

rgr all...

Brew to ya!

Rockin' a Stone Pale Ale here as well...
 
Re: Debunk the Bullshit!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scott R</div><div class="ubbcode-body">maybe we can move on to something like "what is the most effective sex act to get a nut". In the mean time I'll leave this discussion to the experts
grin.gif
. </div></div>


Dude....

You owe me a new beer.... half mine just went out my nose & on my keyboard.... laffin'
 
Re: Debunk the Bullshit!

the 40 cal is a pice of shit,,rickoshays---off tin----has no power left at all,,,,barely left a bruse....traded it next day...
 
Re: Debunk the Bullshit!

Agree 100% with Shaggy! 11+ year veteran of LE myself, firearms instructor, EMT, yada-yada and so on. Regardless of the round, key is shot placement and mental/intestinal fortitude of the perp. In my 11+ years, seen some odd crap take place. Again, regardless of the caliber, shot placement is the key and drive on until there is no longer a viable threat. If all else fails, a DIRECT CNS shot may be the only saving grace.
 
Re: Debunk the Bullshit!

Looks like I missed the blitz on this thread but allow me to state my two cents since I am many timezones away.

I can't see the pictures but if something only penetrated only 1 or 2 inches of ballistic gelatin like someone stated then I would probably want something with a little more ability to penetrate. Honestly I don't see how it could only go 2 inches but I can't see the pics so oh well. More believably, someone else mentioned more like 9 inches of penetration and I think that is still a bit short but in a really good zone.

That being said however, looks at this from a physics point of view: Mega stated the important factors earlier of a slightly heavier bullet than a .40 travelling significantly faster than a .40 which means this .50GI has significantly more muzzle energy than the .40. That this round came to a stop in the BG after such a short penetration means that it managed to transfer all of it's energy into the BG very quickly which means a significant amount of trauma had to occur.

Penetration is good for getting through clothes, armor, walls, car doors, and other obstacles. When you shoot someone and the bullet passes completely through their body (overpenetration) though that means the projectile is still travelling along with stored energy that was not transfered to the target, resulting in less than optimal results.

As for situations that justify shooting someone I always tell my guys "Anybody worth shooting once is worth shooting twice". If that still doesn't work, shoot them again and again until the desired result is achieved (i.e. no longer any threat whatsoever).
 
Re: Debunk the Bullshit!

Hmmm, typical man measures somewhere between 10" - 14" from sternum to spine. 9" of penetration by a .50 that expands to 1" will cause a lot of hydastatic shock.
In the cavity of the gel, note the larger opening as well as the cracks that illuminate from center outward around the expanded point. That has to be a radiation of somewhere around 5 - 6 inches.

image2443.jpg


That is where that big bullet shines. It causes major havoc inside. You are talking about major movement and trauma to the heart, liver, lungs, spleen, possibly kidneys.
I think the .50GI would do what is needed and a double tap would turn the lights out on anything. And it's California Approved!

gun_1_500_b.jpg
 
Re: Debunk the Bullshit!

In regards to people surviving gun shot wounds to the head. SO WHAT?! There is lots of space in the head not occupied by brain matter. About 60% of it IIRC. Just because a bullet touches your brain doesn't mean instant death either.

Yes there are lots of cases of people surviving serious wounds. Lots of times the bullet hits someone in the head and just doesn't play with anything actually vital.

Anyone want to try putting a pistol to their temple and squeezing off a round? There was a murderer a few years back who did it rather than surrender to the police. Bullet entered his head, cut his optical nerves, blew his eyeballs out of his head, and I believe went out the other side. Just didn't hit anything vital. Medical help kept him alive and he went on trial wearing a blidfold around his head to cover his eye sockets.

Hit something vital with a critical hit and they are going to die. Chest is not vital. VITAL organs inside of chest are; hit them. Head is not vital. Massive trauma to the cerebral cortex/occipital kill zone is.
 
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