• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

Deciding on Caliber, AR-10/AR-15

Equitum

Equitum

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
May 3, 2012
157
0
Fort Worth, TX
Alright, I'm one of those guys who plans far far far ahead into the future. I just got my first rifle (Rem 700 .308 26" barrel), but I know I'm going to want another when I have the cash to pay for it. I want to build from the AR platform, but I don't know whether I want to go with the AR-10 or AR-15, or what caliber for either platform.

The choice for me mainly rides on the availability of calibers for each platform and how those calibers match up. I was originally going to get a Savage in 6.5 Creedmoor and a 7mm-08 barrel as well for the Savage. I like the 6.5 Creedmoor because it will get me out to long ranges like my .308 but it will shoot flatter and won't be affected by the wind as much, but choosing the 6.5 CM limits me to the AR-10 platform, which will cost a lot more to build or buy and doesn't have as much aftermarket support. If I choose the AR-10, i'll probably get the GAP-10 in 6.5CM, or build it myself from parts.

If I want to use the AR-15 platform, I'll have a lot more aftermarket parts available, but I'll be limited to smaller calibers. I was looking at the 5.56 or 300 BLK or 6.5 Grendel for the AR-15. I don't know much about these smaller calibers (or the AR platforms), so I don't know what they are capable of. From what I've read so far, the 6.5 Grendel will have the farthest max range, and the 300 BLK looks like a beefier .223, but the 5.56 is pretty much the standard AR-15 caliber and is well supported.

It'll probably help to know what I'd like this rifle for... I want the AR platform because you can take it apart yourself, modify everything, etc. so it'd be a great SHTF rifle. I want to shoot long-range with this rifle though, so that's a big consideration in the caliber choice, but if the 5.56 measures up pretty well downrange compared to the 300 BLK or the 6.5 Grendel, i'd probably choose the 5.56 because of its availability, at least on the AR-15 platform.
So, summary: Long range target/plinking
SHTF rifle
Maybe hunting, but I'd probably just use my .308
 
Re: Deciding on Caliber, AR-10/AR-15

Wildcats, necked down/up calibers have their advantages but - you mention 'when I get the cash' so I am guessing you aren't rich - they are more costly as well.

I would say think about building a 223 AR. They are handy, ammo is cheap, and you can put together something that is pretty capable for 1500 or less including optics.

Once you start reloading 223 and 308 are easy to do. Components easy to find and cheap, tons and tons of data out there and both can use the same powder (when in doubt, varget).
 
Re: Deciding on Caliber, AR-10/AR-15

The AR-15 platform is less expensive and far more flexible. You can have a 5.56 upper to use the standard round that the free world has selected for its riflemen, a 300 upper for a Hollywood-quiet silenced gun, a 7.62x39 upper to shoot AK ammo, a 5.45x39.5 upper to shoot rifle ammo that's cheaper than 9mm, or a .22lr upper to plink with ammo that's practically free.

On the other side, the 308 AR platforms are not interchangeable and compatible with each other. Aftermarket options are more limited and one has to take additional care due to incompatibilities. They are also generally more expensive.
 
Re: Deciding on Caliber, AR-10/AR-15

For a AR15, you won't find better performance than what a 6.8 or 6.5/.264 will give. A 5.56, 7.62X39 or 5.45X39 for blasting on the cheap and a 300BO for sub gun fun.

For a AR10, I'd go for a .260 but a .308 would be a close second.
 
Re: Deciding on Caliber, AR-10/AR-15

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 346ci</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For a AR15, you won't find better performance than what a 6.8 or 6.5/.264 will give. </div></div>Who makes a 6.5/284 in an AR15?
Which cartridges perform worse than a 6.8?
 
Re: Deciding on Caliber, AR-10/AR-15

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 346ci</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For a AR15, you won't find better performance than what a 6.8 or 6.5/.264 will give. </div></div>Who makes a 6.5/284 in an AR15?
Which cartridges perform worse than a 6.8? </div></div>

Not sure where you got the 6.5/.284, I posted 6.5/.264, as in the 6.5G or .264LBC.

I don't think of them as worse, just don't offer as much as the 6.8 or 6.5.
 
Re: Deciding on Caliber, AR-10/AR-15

I misread it: Of course 6.5 and .264 are the same thing.

The 6.8 is not a long-range round.
 
Re: Deciding on Caliber, AR-10/AR-15

You are correct, not a dedicated LR round. It is much closer to the 6.5/.264 than some would think. I'd still choose the 6.5/.264 if LR were my goal, I run the 6.8 for hunting but will be trying some of the new 140gr for some extra reach.
 
Re: Deciding on Caliber, AR-10/AR-15

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wildcats, necked down/up calibers have their advantages but - you mention 'when I get the cash' so I am guessing you aren't rich - they are more costly as well.

I would say think about building a 223 AR. They are handy, ammo is cheap, and you can put together something that is pretty capable for 1500 or less including optics.

Once you start reloading 223 and 308 are easy to do. Components easy to find and cheap, tons and tons of data out there and both can use the same powder (when in doubt, varget). </div></div>

It's not anything necessarily like that in terms of cost - I was raised to be frugal, so I always want to get the best deal. And, as a student, I really don't have that much disposable income, so when I will have the cash is after my birthday and after I work over the summer, since I go to school full-time and don't have a source of disposable income besides that.

I've looked at factory match costs for all the calibers I've mentioned, and they've all been really cheap (at least compared to what I'm paying for .308 - FGMM and Southwest Ammunition - right now), none above $1/round IIRC. Reloading, which is something I do want to get into eventually, doesn't seem to be a factor on any of these calibers... I believe the wildcat rounds I mentioned can be formed from .308 brass.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 346ci</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are correct, not a dedicated LR round. It is much closer to the 6.5/.264 than some would think. I'd still choose the 6.5/.264 if LR were my goal, I run the 6.8 for hunting but will be trying some of the new 140gr for some extra reach. </div></div>
When it comes to LR rounds for the AR-15, I didn't think the 6.8 would cut it, so I was mainly looking at the 6.5 Grendel or 5.56/.223 for that, or the 300 BLK honestly because the idea of the quiet, but powerful, round is kinda appealing for a SHTF scenario or just plain silencer-esque fun.

Can the 5.56/.223 perform in a LR situation (up to 1k yards), or will it die off somewhere around 400-600 yards? If it can really go the distance out to 1k yards, I'll probably go for a long barrel AR-15.

With the 6.5 CM (which I've researched more), I would use the 140 AMAXes you mentioned. I'm not sure about the weights for the bullets on the other calibers, though. I'd research the specific calibers a bit more once I decide on AR-10 or AR-15.



I guess it comes down to whether I truly want a more versatile SHTF rifle in the AR-15 or I really want the AR-10 for the wider variety of more LR calibers. Either way I'll probably have a long (for an AR) barrel so I don't lose out on velocity and range. I'm going to probably go to some rental ranges or find some guys who own ARs in my area to see if I can fire them and see what round and platform I like more.

If I get the AR-10, I'll probably get a 5.56 AR-15 as well, sometime in the future. That 5.56 AR-15 would really be the SHTF rifle and the AR-10 would be my AR platform LR rig.
 
Re: Deciding on Caliber, AR-10/AR-15

Their is nothiing cool about having a bad ass gun that you cant afford to shoot, or cant shoot worth a crap. Get an AR 15, and then buy a 22 upper that you can afford to shoot. Use the 5.56 upper when the budget allows....
 
Re: Deciding on Caliber, AR-10/AR-15

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The op has a 308 bolt gun - his 'first' rifle. He is thinking about an AR 'when he gets the money'.

To recommend anything other than a 556 is kind of silly.
</div></div>
Just because I have only a .308 doesn't mean I don't know about other calibers. The reason I like the wildcat calibers is because the trajectory will be a lot flatter than my .308, so I won't need the dial in dozens of MOA on my scope and almost uncap the turrets. I research the shit out of anything I want to buy, so when it comes to my next, i.e. second rifle, I know I want the AR platform, so I'm researching different calibers. I chose the .308 over anything else because of the availability of pretty much everything on the market to back up a .308 bolt gun, so the 5.56 might be the right choice. I haven't ruled it out, but neither will I rule out more "exotic" AR calibers.

When it comes to paying for the rounds... Pretty much any AR caliber I've looked for in AmmoSeek has been under $1/round. Shooting my .308 is much more expensive, and of course shooting a .22LR would be cheaper. The cost per round isn't really that much a factor, especially since I'll probably start reloading in between now and buying the AR platform I decide on.

Edit: I just reread that and it sounded really defensive. Sorry... I just don't like when there's the assumption that someone who's just starting out can't possibly want or need anything but the plain-jane caliber for the platform they're thinking about.
 
Re: Deciding on Caliber, AR-10/AR-15

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The op has a 308 bolt gun - his 'first' rifle. He is thinking about an AR 'when he gets the money'.

To recommend anything other than a 556 is kind of silly.

</div></div>

Well said for a "first timer" AR15 user. I had 4 5.56 rigs at one time, sold 3 of them and kept one for blasting. The 5.56 just doesn't have the power for me, I then stepped up to the 6.8 and haven't looked back. That thing just lays the smack down on deer.

Cheap blasting ammo goes towards the 5.56 and 7.62X39, if you want quality 5.56, you will pay dam near the same as the better calibers such as 6.8 and 6.5.
 
Re: Deciding on Caliber, AR-10/AR-15

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Equitum</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When it comes to LR rounds for the AR-15, I didn't think the 6.8 would cut it, so I was mainly looking at the 6.5 Grendel or 5.56/.223 for that, or the 300 BLK honestly because the idea of the quiet, but powerful, round is kinda appealing for a SHTF scenario or just plain silencer-esque fun.
</div></div>

You might want to slide over to the 68Forums if you don't think the 6.8 will cut it. If you sole purpose is a LR rig, the 6.5G/.264LBC will be hard to beat. The 6.8 is a dam close second.

The 300BO is identical to a 7.62X39, same velocity, power and trajectory. I have a few AKs so I'm covered there. It does preform well for a suppressed SBR sub gun though.
 
Re: Deciding on Caliber, AR-10/AR-15

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 346ci</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You might want to slide over to the 68Forums if you don't think the 6.8 will cut it. If you sole purpose is a LR rig, the 6.5G/.264LBC will be hard to beat. The 6.8 is a dam close second.

The 300BO is identical to a 7.62X39, same velocity, power and trajectory. I have a few AKs so I'm covered there. It does preform well for a suppressed SBR sub gun though. </div></div>

From what I've read so far, the 6.8SPC is to the 6.5GR how the .308 is to the 6.5CM or .260 - it has a more arced trajectory and about 100m less effective range. I'm going to look into it some more though... Thanks.
 
Re: Deciding on Caliber, AR-10/AR-15

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Equitum</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Edit: I just reread that and it sounded really defensive. Sorry...</div></div>

No worries I think you're gonna fit in just fine around here lol.

Flatter trajectory than your 308 would be something like a 260 or a 243. Grendel has a trajectory like a rainbow. It'll keep going pointy end first a very long ways but that is it.

Dialing a 'bunch of MOA'? Plenty of scopes out there with 10 mil turrets. Even 5 mil turrets just means 2 full turns. Not difficult.

Reloading cost is a factor for wildcats because you have to be creative with brass...many people who shoot the Grendel just give up and buy match ammo. Last I looked at brass for grendel it was 70-80 cents per...hornady match grendel ammo is a little over a buck.

I like to go out and shoot 50-100 rounds through my 223 without thinking about it and I can't do that at a buck a round.

Also, there are many long range shooting disciplines. What one are you most interested in? That will help people give you a better idea of what to get.

What kind of 308 bolt gun do you have now? What kind of optic?
 
Re: Deciding on Caliber, AR-10/AR-15

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Equitum</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Edit: I just reread that and it sounded really defensive. Sorry...</div></div>

No worries I think you're gonna fit in just fine around here lol.

Flatter trajectory than your 308 would be something like a 260 or a 243. Grendel has a trajectory like a rainbow. It'll keep going pointy end first a very long ways but that is it.

Dialing a 'bunch of MOA'? Plenty of scopes out there with 10 mil turrets. Even 5 mil turrets just means 2 full turns. Not difficult.

Reloading cost is a factor for wildcats because you have to be creative with brass...many people who shoot the Grendel just give up and buy match ammo. Last I looked at brass for grendel it was 70-80 cents per...hornady match grendel ammo is a little over a buck.

I like to go out and shoot 50-100 rounds through my 223 without thinking about it and I can't do that at a buck a round.

Also, there are many long range shooting disciplines. What one are you most interested in? That will help people give you a better idea of what to get.

What kind of 308 bolt gun do you have now? What kind of optic?


</div></div>

Right now, my bolt-gun setup is the .308 Rem 700 SPS-V with a factory 26" barrel and factory X-Mark Pro trigger and Harris 6"-9" bipod. Optics and setup- Leupold STD LR (15 MOA) base and STD rings holding a Falcon Menace 4-14x44 FFP mil/mil scope. My scope has, I think, 52-54 mils of total internal adjustment if I measured my mechanical zero right, so something like 26.6 mils in either direction. The turrets are actually 6 mils - On my .308, it should be about 12 mils of dope for 1k yards... I dialed that in to see how the turret felt, and it started to feel "loose", like the clicks were less distinct. That could just be lube from the factory or me messing up the mechanical zero or something, but it didn't feel right on the turrets.

When it comes to LR, I just want to bang steel from a far way away for the satisfaction of being able to do it. Having the right gear is part of it. I'm still learning a lot of the basics for actually handling a rifle for ranges beyond 25 yards, but that will come with trigger time and the basics from the SH FAQs I've read.
 
Re: Deciding on Caliber, AR-10/AR-15

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 346ci</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Cheap blasting ammo goes towards the 5.56 and 7.62X39, if you want quality 5.56</div></div>

Not if you handload.

Brass is the current killer cost for 6.5 in that regard. 6.8spc brass isn't cheap either last time I looked.

It's really too bad since both calibers bring things to the table that 556 can't...and they do it in a 556 platform.
 
Re: Deciding on Caliber, AR-10/AR-15

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Equitum</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Right now, my bolt-gun setup is the .308 Rem 700 SPS-V with a factory 26" barrel and factory X-Mark Pro trigger and Harris 6"-9" bipod. Optics and setup- Leupold STD LR (15 MOA) base and STD rings holding a Falcon Menace 4-14x44 FFP mil/mil scope. My scope has, I think, 52-54 mils of total internal adjustment if I measured my mechanical zero right, so something like 26.6 mils in either direction.
</div></div>

That rifle will get you started.

SPS-V stocks are kind of junky so replacing that would be a good first project. A friend of mine replaced the stock on his with a bell-carlson and his groups went from about 1" to 3/4" or less. Bell Carlson stocks are 200$.

Plenty of guides on the internet on how to do that.

Federal Gold Medal 175gr to me is the best all around stuff you can buy. There are other choices and many places selling their own loads for less money though. Just avoid 168 grain loads if 1k yards is your ultimate goal.

If I were you I'd start thinking about what sort of reloading setup to get. If you want to get into shooting seriously you pretty much have to reload. The cost/benefit ratio is just too large to ignore.
 
Re: Deciding on Caliber, AR-10/AR-15

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CanSniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Every red blooded American should own and know how to use a 308 bolt gun and AR15 in 5.56. Upgrade to the exotics later. </div></div>

That and a ruger 10/22.
 
Re: Deciding on Caliber, AR-10/AR-15

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
That rifle will get you started.

SPS-V stocks are kind of junky so replacing that would be a good first project. A friend of mine replaced the stock on his with a bell-carlson and his groups went from about 1" to 3/4" or less. Bell Carlson stocks are 200$.

Plenty of guides on the internet on how to do that.

Federal Gold Medal 175gr to me is the best all around stuff you can buy. There are other choices and many places selling their own loads for less money though. Just avoid 168 grain loads if 1k yards is your ultimate goal.

If I were you I'd start thinking about what sort of reloading setup to get. If you want to get into shooting seriously you pretty much have to reload. The cost/benefit ratio is just too large to ignore.

</div></div>

I'm proud of what I got for just around $1000 for my rifle. I know the stock is flimsy tupperware junk, but I won't be able to upgrade it for a bit. It'll have to do for now, but what I want to do is get the B&C Tactical Medalist A5 style stock if the factory plastic stock bothers the hell out of me before I can afford the McMillan A5 I have planned out. The other issue is the trigger... I'll get a Timney if the X-Mark Pro begins to creep on me.

The 175gr bullets are where I want to go, but I don't really want FGMM mainly because when I reload, the Winchester brass from Black Hills or Southwest Ammunition (100 rounds on order atm) will purportedly last longer than the Federal brass.

The setup I want to start reloading is the Lee Challenger Breech Lock Single Stage Press Kit with the Lee Collett .308 dies, CCI primers, Varget, Winchester brass, and either 175 SMKs or 178 AMAXes. To clean my brass, I'll get the Stainless Tumbling Media Deluxe Reloading Kit (Thumler's Model B Rotary High Speed Tumbler, all the stainless media i'll need, a media seperator, and some Lemishine). The reloading kit will run me about $150, and the brass cleaning rig around $260. Components will run what they run. In the end, I should recoup the cost pretty soon.

 
Re: Deciding on Caliber, AR-10/AR-15

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 346ci</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Cheap blasting ammo goes towards the 5.56 and 7.62X39, if you want quality 5.56</div></div>

Not if you handload.

Brass is the current killer cost for 6.5 in that regard. 6.8spc brass isn't cheap either last time I looked.

It's really too bad since both calibers bring things to the table that 556 can't...and they do it in a 556 platform. </div></div>

I reload 6.8 so I can get a pretty bad ass round for around $6 per 20. If you shop around for bulk prices, that number can go down. The brass is the most expensive, it has been around $.40-.50 a case lately, I bought a lot of SSA at $.26 a case(1X fired). Considering I quit counting at around 15 reloads for one case, the cost seems much lower once you factor in how long it can last.

In the next several months you will see 6.8 from Tula, PMC, and Federal. We are hoping those will be much cheaper, the blasting ammo anyway.

You can get Wolf Gold 6.5G for around $13 per 20 and from what I have read, it is some pretty good stuff. That is not bad for loaded ammo. Cheaper 6.5 is being talked about also.
 
Re: Deciding on Caliber, AR-10/AR-15

If you havent figured it our yet it is all personal prefrence. I started building my Grendel a while back and I looked over these forums for a while before I decided. Some people say it is a greatest round ever and some say it is the worst round thought of. Some people think the 300 blkout is the best. Who can you really listen to?

All I will tell you is buy what you think you will use most. If you cant afford the higher priced ammo get a .223/5.56. If you can afford it buy a 50 bmg.

Just my two pennies!
 
Re: Deciding on Caliber, AR-10/AR-15

I've looked a lot more at actual pre-built setups for both the AR-10 and AR-15 platforms.

What I've come up with:

AR-10, .260 or 6.5 Creedmoor or...- http://www.gaprecision.net/ga-precision-2012-custom-rifles/ga-precision-g.a.-precision-gap-10-.html
with the Magpul PRS upgrade

AR-15, 6.5 Grendel- http://www.shopalexanderarms.com/Lowers_Uppers-6.5_Grendel_GDMR_Lower-_Complete_Lower_Receiver.html
maybe Geissele trigger upgrade
and
http://www.shopalexanderarms.com/Uppers-6.5_Grendel_19.5_Advanced_Weapon_System-Complete.html
definitely Shilen barrel upgrade

AR-15, 5.56- <span style="text-decoration: line-through">http://www.pof-usa.com/p415/p415-18-11T-223.htm</span>
Edit: I looked at some of Noveske's work and I really like it. Probably either http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imc...tus=&title=
or
http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imc...tus=&title=

AR-15, 6.8 SPC or 300BLK- http://wilsoncombat.com/new/rifle-recon-tactical.asp
18" barrel option for 6.8, unsure which twist for 300BLK

As you can probably tell, I like the 4-rail handguard look to the rifle, and an adjustable stock is always a plus.
These are what I would look at for each caliber, most likely.

I'll have to rule out each caliber as I research more, but these are the platforms I'd go with for each caliber.

I've heard good things about G.A. Precision all over this sight, as well as some support for POF. What do you guys know about Wilson's rifles, or Alexander Arms? Would you suggest another manufacturer for the upper/lower assembly? Should I just buy the handrail I like, and then find an upper, barrel, lower, stock, trigger, etc. over buying a complete rifle?
 
Re: Deciding on Caliber, AR-10/AR-15

I would go 5.56 and .264lbc it will do everything the 6.8 will but has the legs to get way out there for target shooting.
 
Re: Deciding on Caliber, AR-10/AR-15

K.I.S.S. I know the broad vistas of the shooting world are dazzling for the new guys. The enthusiasm knows no bounds. Not a problem, but it pays better to do things by easy steps.

Piece of advice; there's nothing wrong with buying a gun off the rack and using it exactly as it was put together at the factory. Fewer issues; and easier to liquidate and turn around when the time comes. If issues occur, an unmodified gun is still warranteed.

For at least the first few years, stay within the mainstream; using well proven rifles and chamberings that are both well suited for semiauto rifles, and well provided with a deep and wide selection of decent factory ammo. Get a good grounding in the basics, and then build your uniquesness from that more resilient foundation. 5.56/223 is cheaper to shoot than 7.62/308. There's a lesson there for some of us; and it's also better to shoot 223 in a 5.56 chamber then vice-versa (pressure issues relating to chamber neck diameters, the barrel can probably handle it but excessive pressure peaks are not good for semiauto gas operating systems).

I have had this for almost a month now. It performs great in my Granddaughter's novice hands, and just put me smack in the middle of the pack shooting a comp at 250yd last Sunday, without even a chance to do any refined load developmeent. I would call it a 700yd rifle with commercial match ammo, and I would still call it mine after a lot of the other rifles I own ever needed to be sold to make the mortgage payment. Best AR I've ever owned. My previous Colt MT6700 Match/Target left me feeling disillusioned. This one doesn't. Instead, it makes even dubious generic (like Fed American Eagle economy bulk pack) ammo look good.

Hunting? Varmints for sure. Save the .308 for medium sized game.

Mine retailed for well under $1K, check around locally for a good deal. Expect some waiting time, the sell as soon as they hit the store, and many stores have waiting lists like mine did. I waited 3 months. It was worth every minute of the wait, and every penny of the price.

Greg
 
Re: Deciding on Caliber, AR-10/AR-15

Start with a 5.56, then build a 24" 6.5 Grendel upper. I've got a 25" Grendel upper which can run 123 gr A-Max's at 2675 fps and it has similar ballistics to my buddies .260 with 140 gr. A-Max's (within .1 mil out to 700 yds).
 
Re: Deciding on Caliber, AR-10/AR-15

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gnhowell1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Start with a 5.56, then build a 24" 6.5 Grendel upper. I've got a 25" Grendel upper which can run 123 gr A-Max's at 2675 fps and it has similar ballistics to my buddies .260 with 140 gr. A-Max's (within .1 mil out to 700 yds). </div></div>

That's a good idea... From what Alexander Arms says, their 6.5GR upper I'm looking at should drop in any old AR-15 lower. Correspondingly, their lower I have linked above should work for a 5.56 upper. Although, if the plan is to start 5.56 then get a 6.5GR upper, I might just get an AR-10 later for the long-range minded caliber choice (.260 or 6.5 Creedmoor) and keep the AR-15 as my 5.56 SHTF rifle. 5.56 won't have the same range as 6.5GR or even my .308, so it'll stay at mid-range, which I'd be fine with.
 
Re: Deciding on Caliber, AR-10/AR-15

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Equitum</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can the 5.56/.223 perform in a LR situation (up to 1k yards), or will it die off somewhere around 400-600 yards?</div></div>

A really good AR-15 with really good ammo will hit up to 1k yards, but it's really way outside the comfort zone for 5.56. A quick look at the ballistic calculator shows that at 1000 yards even MK262 has had 470 inches of drop and has become subsonic.
 
Re: Deciding on Caliber, AR-10/AR-15

If you are all about thinking about the future than there is nothing more important than ease of acquisition of ammo... I vote for either an AR-15 platform in 7.62x39 or 5.56 or an AR-10 in .308/7.62x51... in my mind for the average shooter, no odd-ball caliber is going to provide a significant enough advantage over the .308 to offset the increased expense or the decreased availability... Just my .02 though
smile.gif
 
Re: Deciding on Caliber, AR-10/AR-15

If uppers are your thing, Stag has these. I find that one can beat the list rices with a bit of local shopping around. Their larger caliber chambering choice is the 6.8.

While Stag's brand recognition may not be the highest, they are a long established AR manufacturer, as a source of high quality components for builders and other manufacturers.

More recently they have turned to producing complete rifle, uppers, and have pioneered the market for LH ARs, uppers, and components.

While I am not an AR specialist or guru, I have had and shot a few, and this new Stag I own is a genuine revelation. Good fit, finish, and more importantly, accuracy. Truly pleasing accuracy.

This is the AR rifle I would have started with had it been available back when; since performance at a distance carries a premium in my choice strategy. There is literally nothing I would change on the Stag Model 6. For longer distance performance, it's already there right out of the box.

FWIW, I have no relationshuip with Stag, and have never received any special consideration from them.

Greg
 
Re: Deciding on Caliber, AR-10/AR-15

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">K.I.S.S. I know the broad vistas of the shooting world are dazzling for the new guys. The enthusiasm knows no bounds. Not a problem, but it pays better to do things by easy steps.

Piece of advice; there's nothing wrong with buying a gun off the rack and using it exactly as it was put together at the factory. Fewer issues; and easier to liquidate and turn around when the time comes. If issues occur, an unmodified gun is still warranteed.

For at least the first few years, stay within the mainstream; using well proven rifles and chamberings that are both well suited for semiauto rifles, and well provided with a deep and wide selection of decent factory ammo. Get a good grounding in the basics, and then build your uniquesness from that more resilient foundation. 5.56/223 is cheaper to shoot than 7.62/308. There's a lesson there for some of us; and it's also better to shoot 223 in a 5.56 chamber then vice-versa (pressure issues relating to chamber neck diameters, the barrel can probably handle it but excessive pressure peaks are not good for semiauto gas operating systems).

I have had this for almost a month now. It performs great in my Granddaughter's novice hands, and just put me smack in the middle of the pack shooting a comp at 250yd last Sunday, without even a chance to do any refined load developmeent. I would call it a 700yd rifle with commercial match ammo, and I would still call it mine after a lot of the other rifles I own ever needed to be sold to make the mortgage payment. Best AR I've ever owned. My previous Colt MT6700 Match/Target left me feeling disillusioned. This one doesn't. Instead, it makes even dubious generic (like Fed American Eagle economy bulk pack) ammo look good.

Hunting? Varmints for sure. Save the .308 for medium sized game.

Mine retailed for well under $1K, check around locally for a good deal. Expect some waiting time, the sell as soon as they hit the store, and many stores have waiting lists like mine did. I waited 3 months. It was worth every minute of the wait, and every penny of the price.

Greg </div></div>+1 on the Stag. I just got one, and it's a "Sweet shooter"
 
Re: Deciding on Caliber, AR-10/AR-15

Any of the stainless varmint bull barreled uppers out there will shoot well. I have an RRA that is a tack driver, buddy has a DPMS that shoots about as well, another friend has a CMMG 1:9 that drills holes with vmax bullets.
 
Re: Deciding on Caliber, AR-10/AR-15

In my match there were three different stainless varmint barreled AR's. We all scored within two points of each other.
 
Re: Deciding on Caliber, AR-10/AR-15

If I'm correct in my reading and comprehension, you're still learning to shoot beyond 25 yards. It sounds like you've done a ton of research, but have little actual experience. I know I have a low post count, but my recommendation would be to start basic with an AR-15 chambered in 5.56 and begin shooting and learning more from experience. While you're building your skills continue researching and learning the aftermarket parts/features you like and fine tuning what you are actually going to use the rifle for. Once you have the skills and know what you will use the rifle for, the caliber will become more obvious.

Oh yeah, while researching, be sure to compare apples to apples. For example, one poster in this thread mentioned he had a 6.5 Grendel with a 24" barrel that (insert performance numbers here) and sounded impressive. If you look at the Grendel that way, you have to look at the other calibers the same way. That may be difficult because the 6.8 SPC isn't commonly offered in anything longer than a 20" barrel. I'm not trying to sway one way or the other, just be sure to compare things correctly. Good luck.
 
Re: Deciding on Caliber, AR-10/AR-15

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LocoGringo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I'm correct in my reading and comprehension, you're still learning to shoot beyond 25 yards. It sounds like you've done a ton of research, but have little actual experience. I know I have a low post count, but my recommendation would be to start basic with an AR-15 chambered in 5.56 and begin shooting and learning more from experience. While you're building your skills continue researching and learning the aftermarket parts/features you like and fine tuning what you are actually going to use the rifle for. Once you have the skills and know what you will use the rifle for, the caliber will become more obvious.

Oh yeah, while researching, be sure to compare apples to apples. For example, one poster in this thread mentioned he had a 6.5 Grendel with a 24" barrel that (insert performance numbers here) and sounded impressive. If you look at the Grendel that way, you have to look at the other calibers the same way. That may be difficult because the 6.8 SPC isn't commonly offered in anything longer than a 20" barrel. I'm not trying to sway one way or the other, just be sure to compare things correctly. Good luck. </div></div>

You're reading semi-correctly - I am just starting out with my own rifle, but I used to shoot my grandfather's BB gun and .22LR, just plinking as a kid, but I know a good amount of the basics. I'm shooting at 100 yards right now, but by the time I'm going to buy an AR, I'll have at least a year's more experience, and I'll have started handloading my own ammunition and upgraded my .308 with at least a new stock and trigger, and hopefully with more than 600 rounds downrange with my .308 at much farther than 100 yards.
I don't discount the differences between a bolt gun and a semi-auto, but my experience with the .308 should be the "required amount of experience" to start to branch out a little. Right now all this AR theorizing is just that - but it helps to clear out some misconceptions I may have with the platform and get some recommendations that I can look back at when I'm looking at buying.

I'll keep your advice on the caliber comparisons in mind, but from what I've read so far, the 6.8 still seems to me to be better suited for mid-range applications and is a better choice for hunting. That may be due to the usual barrel lengths offered, but what I've read suggests it's more due to the limitations of the cartridge itself (something about bullet options not being the greatest in terms of long range ballistics when compared to the offerings the 6.5mm class had). I think if I'm going for mid-range, I'll look at the standard 5.56/.223, but if I'm going for long range I'll either look into Alexander Arms offerings for the AR-15 platform in 6.5G or into a 6.5 Creedmoor AR-10 build.
 
Re: Deciding on Caliber, AR-10/AR-15

If it were me I would get a cheap ar15 in 5.56. Del-ton makes a nice rifle kit you build yourself I've built 2 for friends and they run like sewing machines. Just shoot it and have fun, I wouldn't bother with putting an optic on it because they are expensive and running irons is always good practice.

From the money you saved get AR 10 in 308 or 6.5 260 6CM for longer range fun. Since you will be reloading 308 already that's what I would get. But, the aforementioned calibers are superior at range.
 
Re: Deciding on Caliber, AR-10/AR-15

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OBXLongRange</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If it were me I would get a cheap ar15 in 5.56. Del-ton makes a nice rifle kit you build yourself I've built 2 for friends and they run like sewing machines. Just shoot it and have fun, I wouldn't bother with putting an optic on it because they are expensive and running irons is always good practice.

From the money you saved get AR 10 in 308 or 6.5 260 6CM for longer range fun. Since you will be reloading 308 already that's what I would get. But, the aforementioned calibers are superior at range. </div></div>

From a 24" barrel a 6.5 creed running 140 amax has 32.5 moa drop to 1000 and 7.6 moa drift with 10 mph at 9 o'clock and still is supersonic at 1380 fps.
From a 24" 6.5 Grendel with 123 amax needs 39.1 moa and 9.7 moa for wind. And is still going 1200 fps.

Calculated using bullet flight and velocity numbers off the box of hornady ammo.
 
Re: Deciding on Caliber, AR-10/AR-15

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OBXLongRange</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
From a 24" barrel a 6.5 creed running 140 amax has 32.5 moa drop to 1000 and 7.6 moa drift with 10 mph at 9 o'clock and still is supersonic at 1380 fps.
From a 24" 6.5 Grendel with 123 amax needs 39.1 moa and 9.7 moa for wind. And is still going 1200 fps.

Calculated using bullet flight and velocity numbers off the box of hornady ammo. </div></div>

Those numbers are actually pretty surprising to me. The 6.5G seems to be relatively comparable to the 6.5CM, although, with the lighter bullet I'd probably have to load more powder or use a faster powder with the 6.5G than I would on the 6.5CM. If I went with the plan you mentioned in your previous post, my choice would be narrowed down to:
AR-15 in 5.56/.223 and maybe later get a 6.5G upper (or move on to a completely new semi-auto LR build and leave the 5.56 unmolested)
or AR-10 in 6.5CM/.260/7-08/other LR range caliber
 
Re: Deciding on Caliber, AR-10/AR-15

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Equitum</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OBXLongRange</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
From a 24" barrel a 6.5 creed running 140 amax has 32.5 moa drop to 1000 and 7.6 moa drift with 10 mph at 9 o'clock and still is supersonic at 1380 fps.
From a 24" 6.5 Grendel with 123 amax needs 39.1 moa and 9.7 moa for wind. And is still going 1200 fps.

Calculated using bullet flight and velocity numbers off the box of hornady ammo. </div></div>

Those numbers are actually pretty surprising to me. The 6.5G seems to be relatively comparable to the 6.5CM, although, with the lighter bullet I'd probably have to load more powder or use a faster powder with the 6.5G than I would on the 6.5CM. If I went with the plan you mentioned in your previous post, my choice would be narrowed down to:
AR-15 in 5.56/.223 and maybe later get a 6.5G upper (or move on to a completely new semi-auto LR build and leave the 5.56 unmolested)
or AR-10 in 6.5CM/.260/7-08/other LR range caliber </div></div>

Yep thatts what I am saying. Having more guns is expensive but Id rather have more guns than uppers in my opinion. Plus if you ever get in a bind a complete gun is worth more than an upper and easier to sell. And you can NEVER have enough guns.
wink.gif
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

L
Precision Gas Gun Builders
Replies
12
Views
664
PRSDietitian
P
A
"Medium" length B5 CPS stock with LAW folder on AR-10?
Replies
3
Views
219
AwkwardlySocial
A
762 ULTRAMAGA
Are AR-10s problematic?
Replies
97
Views
3K
Cascade Hemi
C
J
  • Poll
12.5 Grendel vs 14.5 6mm ARC your opinion counts
Replies
65
Views
2K
MSTN
MSTN
4
AR 10 338 RCM ...sure lets build this at home.
Replies
3
Views
194
KYAggie
KYAggie
Top Bottom
Back