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Decoding the decline in college enrollments

PatMiles

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Minuteman
Feb 25, 2017
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By Rajan Laad




A recent study from the National Student Clearinghouse revealed that undergraduate college enrollment dropped 8 percent from 2019 to 2022, and this decline is even after the resumption of in-person classes.

According to a study by Georgetown University's Center on Education and the Workforce, college dropouts earn 75 percent less compared with those who get bachelor's degrees.
Experts fear that fewer college graduates could worsen labor shortages in sectors such as health care and information technology.
There are many possible reasons for this decline in college enrollments.

According to the most recent quarterly tally by the Federal Reserve, student loan borrowers in the United States owe a collective $1.76 trillion in federal and private student loan debt as of September 2022.
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The average U.S. household with student debt owes $58,238, according to NerdWallet's 2022 household debt study.
Fifty-five percent of the class of 2020 graduated with student debt, according to the most recent data available from the College Board. Among these graduates, the average student loan debt was $28,400.

This means that students are in a mountain of debt even before they step out into the workplace.
This is equivalent to being burdened with a heavy backpack while competing in a marathon. The competition was always going to be arduous, but the added burden makes it worse. If the burden consists of nutrients that aid your performance during the race, carrying it would have some merit. But if the material in the back has no relevance to the race, it becomes a burden.
Back to education.
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In principle, education is about enlightening minds and should not be looked at from the perspective of value for money.
But in the real world, everything, from a packet of crumpets to the most exclusive luxury, is looked at from the point of view of return on investment.

Why should a formal education be different?
Evaluating the worth of a goal that takes a decade and a half of one's life to accomplish and costs a few hundred thousand dollars is essential and is a worthy exercise.
So let's focus on the product.
Education should always be about questioning and challenging even what is regarded as an axiomatic fact. It should train individuals to think and resolve problems. Students should be encouraged to be curious and skeptical while maintaining an open mind.
But in recent times, matters have deteriorated.
Corrupt educators see students as potential pawns in the left's quest for permanence in power. Educational institutions have become a forum for indoctrination rather than enlightenment.
Students are brainwashed into believing ideas that have been postulated by the left. Those who reject these ideas are bigoted, ignorant, and the root of problems that plague humanity.
The young are typically vulnerable and impressionable, so they accept these ideas unconditionally and rapidly. Those who reject these ideas are the recipient of scorn and reprisals, hence hesitant skeptics remain quiet.
The result is an echo chamber of unconditional obedience, where even the slightest discord "triggers" students. The absence of any challenges or counter-perspectives means that all growth or instinct to innovate is destroyed.
A course such as gender studies, or any of the race studies, causes students to look at every occurrence from the perspective of racism, sexism, homophobia, and xenophobia. The only innovations here are new pronouns and gender types. Students earn a degree, but not an education.
Every shortcoming is viewed as part of one's identity, which earns victimhood, hence striving for improvement is quite out of the question.
Recently, a professor was fired for a precise evaluation of his students' submissions. The students prefer flattering falsehoods instead of factual evaluations that give them an opportunity to improve and grow.
By the time these individuals graduate, they have become overly sensitive snowflakes. They also become arrogant, entitled, and self-righteous. They assume to know it all and see those who disagree with them as bigoted ignoramuses. If these individual reach positions of power, the damage done is often irrevocable.
Why would anyone want to be part of a system that destroys all individuality and transforms individuals into petrified puppies?
Even before the insanity stuck academia, there were inherent problems.
There have always been vast gaps between the theoretical and the practical. Quite often, even those graduating at the top have to unlearn their theoretical knowledge in order to acquire skills to be functional in an office.
There is also the question of the knowledge imparted. A syllabus takes several months to be developed and approved, by which time many advancements are made in the outside world. This means that the knowledge derived from recommended books may not necessarily be applicable in the real world.
For instance, studying computer science at a reputed college or university may earn a degree, but the computer languages taught or the principles of software engineering, etc. could be outdated and unrelated.
On the other hand, a student fresh out of school may learn to code during his summer vacation by watching YouTube videos and doing online exercises. His abilities earn him freelance work and soon a job. He learns every stage of software development and becomes an expert in a year. Perhaps he founds a business at a young age and prospers.
An individual who dedicates four years to a bachelor's degree in computer science could take a while to deliver at work because the education system had closed his mind and trained him in theoretics only.
He is older than the self-educated high school diploma–holder but less useful at the workplace.
The fact that he has a degree means he expects a higher salary. Hence, employers could prefer one who had practical knowledge only, especially for entry-level jobs.
The easy availability of online courses, which are often free, has caused a paradigm shift in how education is acquired.
The reason employers may prefer individuals with degrees is not for the knowledge, but for the effort. Bachelor's degree–holders have dedicated 16 years of their life to the pursuit of one sole objective. The least it demonstrates is some form of focus, commitment, and discipline in the candidate. The employer assumes that it can be molded into something useful with practical training.
In principle, everyone should have a right to education because it is the only way people can rise up in life strictly on their abilities and efforts.
Talented individuals from modest backgrounds could rise up in society through education.
What about individuals who are neither academically inclined nor economically affluent? Dedicating time and money to education could be a losing proposition. The individuals may end up not getting a degree or scoring poorly and end up left with a hefty debt.
The pitfall of not having a degree is that one could bang his head into a glass ceiling.
The employee would rise up the hierarchy, but most firms prefer graduate or master's degree–holders for senior positions.
Back to education.
Dropping out of college may not be a bad idea if one engages is meaningful pursuits.
In current times, there are myriad forums for enlightenment. It doesn't always have to be within the imposing walls of colleges and universities.
Society will have to change its attitude toward education for any of this to get better.
 
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This is something that is legitimately happening. The interesting thing is that it is not a reduction in freshmen, it’s a lack of retention. The whole Covid thing changed higher ed from a student’s perspective. What we see now are non-traditional students who need flexible classes that are pertinent to them. General education classes full of the woke garbage are not appealing to many of these students, and universities are not doing a good job of recognizing this. Students are interested in certificates and credentials that will move them forward in their career without the superfluous nonsense. It boils down to a return on investment for them. The program I teach in has adapted to this idea and our enrollment is booming. The more traditional programs are suffering through budget cuts.
 
Based on what I’ve seen lately a bunch of college majors are just unadulterated bullshit that gets you a degree not worth the paper it’s printed on.

I know a guy who took out $125,000 to go to college and less than 2 years out he is working a job that he could have gotten directly out of high school using exactly nothing from his college education. He essentially pissed a mortgage down the drain. Most of my brothers friends skipped college and went into the trades, they are all making more than what this guy is without any of the debt.

College is good for degrees in the STEM and medical fields among other majors that require knowledge and training but there are a lot of useless majors that are nothing more than money traps.
 
I taught a trade class at the local community College for 3 years, starting during the height of Rona panic.

The woke college admin saw the reduction of numbers from covid (50%) as a temporary problem and doubled down on reducing standards and wokeness.

The administration fought and won to have students be able to pass and graduate without showing the ability to pass industry standard entry tests and knowledge was the breaking point for me. 40 years of a nationwide recognized skill program reduced to the give-everyone-a-degree wokeness. I can't sign my name to that. The pay was great and really hurt to quit, but I'm not having my name associated with a bunch of below minimum entitled rookies.

The students know it to. In fact, a class snapcat group full of the usual craziness which leaked out caused one of the woke instructors to have a mental breakdown and take an extended stress related leave. 🤣
 
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Based on what I’ve seen lately a bunch of college majors are just unadulterated bullshit that gets you a degree not worth the paper it’s printed on.

I know a guy who took out $125,000 to go to college and less than 2 years out he is working a job that he could have gotten directly out of high school using exactly nothing from his college education. He essentially pissed a mortgage down the drain. Most of my brothers friends skipped college and went into the trades, they are all making more than what this guy is without any of the debt.

College is good for degrees in the STEM and medical fields among other majors that require knowledge and training but there are a lot of useless majors that are nothing more than money traps.
I found basket weaving quite helpful...if I wanted to weave a basket. Doesnt pay much but its a degree.
 
And the war on men that's taking place makes many not want to go. Beleive all women, but when proven false she walks no repercussions, all the gender and feminist and woke crap sure helps. Some were attacking single sex clubs like fraternity and sororities. Some 30% to 40% of college enrolment is male, and that's till dropping. The environment is toxic for men so why go.
 
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Degrees are largely overrated save for the STEM/Medical fields, IMO. They cost too much, return WAY too little, and often result in woke BS being ingrained in graduates. More people need to learn a trade of a skill of some kind rather than earn a degree. The reason people “earn more” with a degree is because that’s how we’ve structured our society. It doesn’t have to be that way. Some people absolutely should make more based on what they do (doctors, engineers, people whose field results in death/dismemberment/serious damages if they screw up), but LOTS of folks out there working in fields that don’t require a degree should be earning more as well IMO. So college enrollment being down is only a symptom, not the cause. That’s they way I see it.
 
As other have said, a degree outside of STEM and medical fields is largely pointless. I'm looking at getting my Master's degree online so that I can teach in IT. There's a critical shortage of students that graduate from college even in STEM fields that lack the skills necessary for business.
 
Saw thread on LinkedIn (woke itself) on trend for employers to discount college degrees and, instead, focus on the skills required by the job and compared to the skills (or aptitude) of the applicants.
 
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I'm dealing with a local community college that has a machining program. A trade. Nobody wants to do it, and questions about why the students drop out is always answered with the same answer: too hard, too much work. We are talking CNC, not manual, and no ditches are being dug so I don't know what the bitching is about. They half-ass the efforts for Mastercam and Solidworks - both of which would support a 20 something with no experience and the prospects are good for such a skill. So I'm not sure about how many are going into the trades and staying. Seems like everyone just wants to sit on their phone, and that is the path to poverty. But few will listen to such talk.
 
I'm dealing with a local community college that has a machining program. A trade. Nobody wants to do it, and questions about why the students drop out is always answered with the same answer: too hard, too much work. We are talking CNC, not manual, and no ditches are being dug so I don't know what the bitching is about. They half-ass the efforts for Mastercam and Solidworks - both of which would support a 20 something with no experience and the prospects are good for such a skill. So I'm not sure about how many are going into the trades and staying. Seems like everyone just wants to sit on their phone, and that is the path to poverty. But few will listen to such talk.
This is a fact. Having just retired from an industry that relies heavily on CNC equipment, we could never find even entry level qualified applicants to fulfill the role of creating simple tool paths and programs. Much less those with more advanced abilities. We always had to train our own, out of high school graduates that were willing and able to work and showed some amount of mental ability and trainability.

Those that did well were very hard to retain as there were always many employers in the area looking for qualified people.

As much as colleges don’t want to admit it computer science is one of the new essential trades and would be better served by true trade schools than by fluffy college degrees. A true trade school teaches more than just the pure trade. It also teaches you the other necessary skills to succeed in your life and career.

That’s what college was originally designed to do, but the industry has lost its way. It has been hijacked by the inmates and turned into an incestuous, self aggrandizing, and promoting industry; churning out little clones that are largely useless in the real world.
 
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90% of the kids in college don't belong there. Even in STEM or Nursing. The washout rates are high the first two years because kids can't study, are not smart enough, or don't have the emotional maturity to get kicked in the teeth and get up from that.
 
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I'm dealing with a local community college that has a machining program. A trade. Nobody wants to do it, and questions about why the students drop out is always answered with the same answer: too hard, too much work. We are talking CNC, not manual, and no ditches are being dug so I don't know what the bitching is about. They half-ass the efforts for Mastercam and Solidworks - both of which would support a 20 something with no experience and the prospects are good for such a skill. So I'm not sure about how many are going into the trades and staying. Seems like everyone just wants to sit on their phone, and that is the path to poverty. But few will listen to such talk.


Same at the UT grad school we send projects into. Maybe 10% of the kids show up at my office hours. Maybe 1 out of 3 teams have their act together. At first I was shocked that most of the kids were foreign born, but now see they are just as little committed as anyone else. The handful of kids who do put in the effort all have the same story : grew up poor as shit or had parents with high standards.

I really enjoy talking to the kids who get it.
 
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College has become such an overpriced scam. All this free college and wiping out college debt, included.

Government subsidies in terms of these loans have perpetuated this scam. There is really a vast amount of college work that could be done completely online with students not even leaving the geographic location to get educated. This would dramatically reduce the cost. And someone would argue, a better education.

But in the end, how do you keep your grift going? By furthering the government’s involvement in subsidizing that grift. This is where free college and student loan forgiveness come in…….
 
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In the distant past college was a place where the idle rich went to spend their time studying art, science, and philosophy. Modern college is a place that turns attendees into debt slaves and teaches them nothing they won't have to learn in the workplace anyways.

College needs to be done away with and apprenticeship and employer sponsored on-the-job training needs to take its place. Right now education is one gigantic government fueled scam.
 

Id be dammed before paying for a collage education just to have this be the education they got .
 
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Back in the 1930's and 40's when people were raised on farms, quite literally the only way out was to seek higher education. And it was preached and preached to the point that 'you MUST go to college to succeed' became a standard thought process in American life. Over time though the university system despite what anyone says, is a 100% FOR PROFIT BUSINESS.

The concept that Universities represent some noble virtue in the world is generally speaking a load of crap.

Overall it winds up funneling tons of people to and through college that should never be there in the first place. I would say somewhere around half to 60%+ of all the people that attended college over the past decade (or more) would have been far better served going to a technical school. Learn how to weld, run a CNC machine, be a plumber or any other number of things would be a substantially greater investment.

Long story short 'the University mantra' of 'you gotta attend (and give us $50,000 per year) or else!' is biting a ton of people in the ass. They are basically writing checks their ass can't cover.

If I had my way all universities would be treated as for profit businesses. They would never see another tax benefit. Ever.
 
If I had my way all universities would be treated as for profit businesses. They would never see another tax benefit. Ever.
They should be treated as for profit businesses because that is exactly what they are. Colleges have never, ever been non-profit businesses.

The founders of this Country would be apoplectic and have strokes if they saw how we the people have allowed the very things they fought against (and more that they couldn’t have even imagined) to happen in this ‘Land of the free’.
 
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While I would agree that many college degrees are bs, not all are, just as not all colleges are created equal. Would I want a doctor operating on me that didn’t obtain the requisite education and hours in hands on training? Nope. Would I want to fly in a plane that was built or maintained by shade tree engineers and mechanics? No.

Wisdom is required in this discussion.
 
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While I would agree that many college degrees are bs, not all are, just as not all colleges are created equal. Would I want a doctor operating on me that didn’t obtain the requisite education and hours in hands on training? Nope. Would I want to fly in a plane that was built or maintained by shade tree engineers and mechanics? No.

Wisdom is required in this discussion.
I spent my undergrad surrounded by engineers and pre-med students. A significant number of the courses we took had nothing to do with advancing professional development and making us better engineers and physicians. The useless courses (many of which are different flavors of woke) served only to waste the students time and money.

Everyone would be better served by a much leaner and meaner education system that is focused on delivering skills needed for employment rather than merely keeping academics employed.
 
I spent my undergrad surrounded by engineers and pre-med students. A significant number of the courses we took had nothing to do with advancing professional development and making us better engineers and physicians. The useless courses (many of which are different flavors of woke) served only to waste the students time and money.

Everyone would be better served by a much leaner and meaner education system that is focused on delivering skills needed for employment rather than merely keeping academics employed.
No disagreement there.
 
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I spent my undergrad surrounded by engineers and pre-med students. A significant number of the courses we took had nothing to do with advancing professional development and making us better engineers and physicians. The useless courses (many of which are different flavors of woke) served only to waste the students time and money.

Everyone would be better served by a much leaner and meaner education system that is focused on delivering skills needed for employment rather than merely keeping academics employed.

I agree with that. We also need a away to separate people through competition and that is what the bell curve is for. Really hard subjects are best taught in a group setting.
 
I felt like even my trade school was a waste of money.

While it's entertaining to explain stuff I learned at 19 to guys in their 60s, it's obviously not essential. It put me in debt, when I could have been getting paid.

I told my kids they can earn themselves an education through grades, or they can dig ditches.

My oldest wants to go into robotics and electrical engineering.

My youngest, well, his eyes lit up at the thought of digging ditches.

The fun part though? He could dig ditches in a 300 series cat and make $100k pretty quick if he's willing to dig the ditches with a shovel first, and they'll even pay him to learn how to shovel!
 
I felt like even my trade school was a waste of money.

While it's entertaining to explain stuff I learned at 19 to guys in their 60s, it's obviously not essential. It put me in debt, when I could have been getting paid.

I told my kids they can earn themselves an education through grades, or they can dig ditches.

My oldest wants to go into robotics and electrical engineering.

My youngest, well, his eyes lit up at the thought of digging ditches.

The fun part though? He could dig ditches in a 300 series cat and make $100k pretty quick if he's willing to dig the ditches with a shovel first, and they'll even pay him to learn how to shovel!

Thats how I learned to operate heavy equipment.
Biggest problem with kids today, they want to start in the cab, and not on the ground with a shovel.
 
I felt like even my trade school was a waste of money.

While it's entertaining to explain stuff I learned at 19 to guys in their 60s, it's obviously not essential. It put me in debt, when I could have been getting paid.

I told my kids they can earn themselves an education through grades, or they can dig ditches.

My oldest wants to go into robotics and electrical engineering.

My youngest, well, his eyes lit up at the thought of digging ditches.

The fun part though? He could dig ditches in a 300 series cat and make $100k pretty quick if he's willing to dig the ditches with a shovel first, and they'll even pay him to learn how to shovel!
Or be the guy that owns the 300 series cat and along with the rest of the fleet and makes millions. Doesn’t even need a GED
 
I spent my undergrad surrounded by engineers and pre-med students. A significant number of the courses we took had nothing to do with advancing professional development and making us better engineers and physicians. The useless courses (many of which are different flavors of woke) served only to waste the students time and money.

Everyone would be better served by a much leaner and meaner education system that is focused on delivering skills needed for employment rather than merely keeping academics employed.
Preach it! I went to a local (cheap) college and knocked out all the fluff then went to Georgia Tech for 2+ years and just took ROTC and Engineering. I could have skipped the two years of "fluff".
 
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in conversations ive had over the years, my opinion has pivoted slightly

when i was younger i was on the side of "basket weaving is useless so it shouldn't be a option"

since then i believe that the cost of a "major" should be a multiple or percentage of expected earnings


just an example (numbers are irrelevant)

if a doctor will make 100K a year, his education should cost 300k

if the market price for basket weaving is 25k a year, that education should cost 75k

it should be illegal to charge 300k for a basket weaving degree


in theory that should limit price gouging by colleges and limit useless student loans


its not my/our problem if you think you can be a doctor and fail out..pay up..life has consequences
 
Wife worked at a smaller but higher end medical school for a couple of years. Don’t think that the standards haven’t been significantly lowered in that field to get the applicants they want and retain them. The med students loans begin accruing interest the minute they take them out and they borrow hundreds of thousands of dollars for the program.
 
Illegal like... government regulation? But won't that limit a free market?
there has to be some sort of regulation for education if not the whole thing crumbles

then the real separation of haves and have nots happens all over again

as we have seen on TV several of the big name colleges have dropped the SAT/ ACT requirement

on the face that seems like a benign move but now the enrolment selection process has very limited hard data to review

both have 4.0 but one HS is ranked 758 and the other is ranked 659...they arent in the top 50-100..is there really a difference?

it goes back to 1970 where it was a pay to play and who you know gets you into college

donors and boosters still have a foot up in current education, but it will revert to what collegiate education sought to stop 40 years ago

not sure if you know but asian americans took harvard to court because they were discriminated against during enrollment

it was shown that lower test scores of minorities were accepted compared to higher test scores of asians etc

no SAT, and its "well he had a much better interview" etc


so to circle around, i think for a universal system (like an electrical code or flight safety) education needs to have a committee of watchdogs.

Whether thats government or not, i dont think an industry that large can function even remotely fairly if not
 
Well in your younger days the shovel was a new invention, no reason to use a shovel when you have hydraulics and diesel power now old man 🤠
The shovel will never be obsolete.
My first public job with a shovel, was verifying marked lines for the machine. Also lowering and raising clean outs and manholes.
 
The shovel will never be obsolete.
My first public job with a shovel, was verifying marked lines for the machine. Also lowering and raising clean outs and manholes.
Pshhhh I’ve seen videos of guys opening coke bottles with a big hoe. Just be gentle 😜
 
if a doctor will make 100K a year, his education should cost 300k


Paying off a $300k student loan on $100k a year salary is not going to work out very well for the borrower.
There is also no reason a doctor should need to pay that much to become a doctor, especially when they essentially use students / interns and such as near slave labour.

A more realistic number is your total student loan probably shouldn't be anymore than a year worth of expected salary once you get a good position you like.
You can't have your student loan payment be essentially as big as your housing payment or everything else and expect that to be sustainable.

There are things like the cost of housing, the cost of food, the cost of transportation, taxes, insurance, utilities, bills, interest, etc.

This is also a reason we get so many new "medical professionals" speaking with odd accents in some places...

I've seen enough folks struggling with student debt to understand that you need to be really conservative in how much you are willing to pay as opposed to how much you expect to make.
 
Skip college and spend those years making money.

There is so much money in this country that all you have to do is reach out and get some.
 
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Education being a product for sale(regardless of it's actual value) is an output of a capitalism.
The problem is our education system is polluted by non-capitalist subsidies by a huge margin. They don’t have to compete and can raise the cost of an education to obscene levels while engaging in diversity quotas and offering “gender studies” degrees. Students get degrees that are all but worthless then are saddled with crippling debt that the government and college cabals convinced them is the natural order of things……. in a capitalist economy.
 
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Reality is always more complicated than political agendas on social media would try to lead us to believe isn't it?
and there is the problem in general

social media and shows like john stuart and the view (like them or not), are not based on fact

the regular news may have always had a slant in one direction or the other but there was a minimum of partial facts

now journalistic integrity has vanished

they try to dumb it down for the uneducated, not in schooling but about the topics because the average person is lazy and uninterested to learn on their own

i think we are at a point after 2-300 years, that problems and topics which are not already agreed upon (like murder is bad)...are difficult, confusing and not black and white

its usually not the actual question but the ripple effect that occurs which bogs things down
 
College would be better if the professors weren't allowed tenures and instead had to work in the industry that they teach. If your degree that you want to teach has no business application, it's immediately canceled.