Defiance actions.

[TEXFIRE%$&]

Howdy. I am exploring an ELR journey. I’ve done quite a bit of research into equipment.
I have a Defience action in 300WM that I’ve shot out to 1500 yds. I like it a lot.
My question is why are none of the “Big gunners” in the sport not using Defience actions. IMO they have very close tolerances and perform repeatedly well. I have no experience with Bat or the others seen in ELR. Are they inferior compared to the others? If so why?

 

[badassgunworks]

Defiance is a good action but they don't compare to the Precision quality of a bat. Pierce or Borden as they are 100% competition quality. However the Defiance is a decent action. As far as being inferior yes in many ways depending on what cartridge you're using technically you're restricted to lapua/norma based cases. So if you're planning to build that size or smaller the Defiance is fine

 

[DocRDS]

Warning: I know jack shit about ELR guns specifics.

What I've found is that small communities form very niche requirements about their gear. Example: PRS is dominated by Impact Actions. F Class has a different set of preferred actions. Sometimes its about "follow the leader (see USPSA Prodcution 2010 to 2018 and the Tanfo)", sometimes its about very specific requirements (rifle needs to be single fed for F-Class). Sometimes both. Hopefully an ELR peson can chime in on why they choose what they choose. AS @badassgunworks hinted it may have to do with larger (or custom) bolt faces.

 

[kthomas]

Because Defiance only make actions up to a Lapua bolt face. For ELR work, this is limits you to the .338 LM/Norma cartridges, or single feeding Tubb's XC cartridges.

Some will also argue that on bigger cartridges, the Defiance actions will show pressure earlier than others due to the size of the action/tennon and size of the bolt lugs. How true or not this is I'm not sure, I've heard mixed things about this.

For ELR style competitions, you'll see most people in actions that are built for the Cheytac sized cartridges.

 

[badassgunworks]

When you look at engineering specs hoop stress and sheer surface is extremely important When selecting an action for a specific cartridge to be run at a specific pressure. A 1.063 Tenon is technically marginal for the .587 diameter cartridge. optomum sidewall thickness for saami limits with 416 and 41series barrels is .245 perside so run at hot loads there is to much tennon flex causing premature false signs of pressures . I have done extensive testing on this using strain gages and pizzo valves. So has jim borden

 

[TEXFIRE%$&]

Defiance is a good action but they don't compare to the Precision quality of a bat. Pierce or Borden as they are 100% competition quality. However the Defiance is a decent action. As far as being inferior yes in many ways depending on what cartridge you're using technically you're restricted to lapua/norma based cases. So if you're planning to build that size or smaller the Defiance is fine

Thanks for the info. I’m using Peterson brass with no issues.
My Defience action with a Proof barrel, and KRG Bravo was my first custom build. It has produced good results firming my learning phase. If I move into more serious ELR I’ll explore the other action further. If the winners all use something else there’s prob a good reason why. Thanks!

 

[larryh128]

All sports have a follow the leader cult. And that doesn't mean what they're using isn't good, but many will try to short cut thinking it's the equipment.

 

[badassgunworks]

All sports have a follow the leader cult. And that doesn't mean what they're using isn't good, but many will try to short cut thinking it's the equipment.

There are basic laws by Design that if ignored will be adverse side effects it's seen quite often throughout the industry. You can't optimize something as a minimalist. But as a minimalist you might be able to get by. That does not make it the first and best choice. There are a lot of fanboys you are correct and there is lots of Follow the Leader we have seen this with lots of products in ELR. when one finally get your hands on something good you realize what you have been missing

 

[Arken7mm]

Because Defiance only make actions up to a Lapua bolt face. For ELR work, this is limits you to the .338 LM/Norma cartridges, or single feeding Tubb's XC cartridges.

Some will also argue that on bigger cartridges, the Defiance actions will show pressure earlier than others due to the size of the action/tennon and size of the bolt lugs. How true or not this is I'm not sure, I've heard mixed things about this.

For ELR style competitions, you'll see most people in actions that are built for the Cheytac sized cartridges.

I'm not familiar with the higher powered wild cat cartridges. Hypothetically, if someone were building a custom rifle with either 338 Snipetac or 33XC would a Defiance action be able to handle that or should the builder go with BAT, Pierce or Borden actions?

 

[mtnhunter22]

I'm not familiar with the higher powered wild cat cartridges. Hypothetically, if someone were building a custom rifle with either 338 Snipetac or 33XC would a Defiance action be able to handle that or should the builder go with BAT, Pierce or Borden actions?

Threads over a year old my friend. A reputable builder, who specializes in building those, would know best.

 

[kthomas]

I'm not familiar with the higher powered wild cat cartridges. Hypothetically, if someone were building a custom rifle with either 338 Snipetac or 33XC would a Defiance action be able to handle that or should the builder go with BAT, Pierce or Borden actions?

Some would say you can/should do it, others will suggest actions that have a larger tennon, so there's less potential for pressure issues.

I agree with @mtnhunter22, this is probably a good conversation to have with a gunsmith that you trust.

 

[Varminterror]

I'm not familiar with the higher powered wild cat cartridges. Hypothetically, if someone were building a custom rifle with either 338 Snipetac or 33XC would a Defiance action be able to handle that or should the builder go with BAT, Pierce or Borden actions?

Ryan Cheney's Light Class rifle is a 33XC built on a Defiance single shot action.

I might not want a repeater action for the task, and I wouldn't open the bolt face larger to try to play with a Cheytac bolt face, but Ryan has been working that Defiance out in 33XC for a long time, with well documented success (I'm 99% certain it's fair to state it is because of THAT rifle that 33's are still allowed in Ko2M - there were rumblings about disallowing 33's after that season, until Ryan held top position all season with his).