Hey guys, just hoping to hear some opinions on the MDR from people who ACTUALLY HAVE THEM. I had a SRS back when the company was still DTA and I loved it. I've been wanting a good semi auto .308 since before they announced the MDR. Love everything about the gun from what I've been reading. Just wondering on accuracy, reliability, and stuff like that since I know it's had a rough start.
- Thread starter Tritanium
- Start date
Not precision related but depth ammo testing
And under the hood
And under the hood
Check out bullpup forum. It isn't a QC issue (and if you'd actually watched the videos you'd know that). There are a massive list of issues and flaws from users. There are several design and materials issues that need serious fixes. To just list a few:
The poly is too weak and is cracking. This is happening at pin holes, charging handle slot, and handguard.
The pins are breaking.
It cannot function reliably even with the new extractor and gas piston they have now.
It is very gassy suppressed.
It locks up quickly when dirt is introduced.
It has excessive recoil.
There is zero reason to buy this rifle in its current form.
If you want a good semi-auto .308k, there are any number of quality AR10s at and around that price. If you want it to be a bullpup, you can but the superior K&M M17s 308 right now, or wait till Q2 and get the Tavor 7.
The poly is too weak and is cracking. This is happening at pin holes, charging handle slot, and handguard.
The pins are breaking.
It cannot function reliably even with the new extractor and gas piston they have now.
It is very gassy suppressed.
It locks up quickly when dirt is introduced.
It has excessive recoil.
There is zero reason to buy this rifle in its current form.
If you want a good semi-auto .308k, there are any number of quality AR10s at and around that price. If you want it to be a bullpup, you can but the superior K&M M17s 308 right now, or wait till Q2 and get the Tavor 7.
Surprise, surprise... Reminds me of the 10 round SRS magazine fiasco. If you can't manufacture a 10 round bolt action mag, how can you make a bullpup semiauto? Don't like me some Desert Tech...
I've got one of the earlier models before the engineering revisions. I have the new 6 port gas plug but based on their new product announcement video, there is a revised plug that is supposed to be better for preventing short stroking. I've ran around 900 rounds through mine so far and it's gotten better with use.
Initially, it was tearing cartridge rims off almost every round and making it very frustrating to shoot. After 500 rounds it has smoothed out quite a bit. One ripped rim per 200 rounds, suppressed (sandman k) at lowest gas setting. I was initially using really crappy milsurp ammo so that was probably 40% of the cause. Switching to the 6 port plug alleviated a decent amount of the ripped rim failures. Still have a few hundred rounds of the misc milsurp ammo to go through.
The rear pin walks out about 1/4" during firing but stops right there and goes no further. I've seen some with fractured receiver tabs where that same pin locks in place. I haven't noticed obvious damage yet. Disconcerting to me, I check it every mag and push it back in as necessary. I'm giving it its first year and enough ammo to find the rest of the quirks in it so hopefully they all get fixed at once when I send it in for warranty.
It is very gassy suppressed, that didn't change with the new gas port. Enough so that my nose burns from the smell and I get a streak of black starting at my jawline and going halfway down my neck. The picatinny rail on the gas block is high burn hazard. Even with my scope mounted over it, I occasionally touch the side of it when moving it.
I haven't noticed any polymer failures yet but I'm certainly not saying it's impossible. I check the weapon regularly for failures of any kind I can think of because I don't trust it quite yet.
My thoughts, $2500 is a lot to spend on something that is not 100%. I had extra money and decided to try my luck with this purchase. As a range toy, it's pretty damned fun to shoot. I don't notice excessive recoil with it either suppressed, unsuppressed or braked.
I don't leave home with this rifle without a cleaning rod to knock out a ripped-rim case.
I won't be selling it except to upgrade to a newer/significantly improved MDR revision that cannot be retro-fitted into my rifle
The trigger is pretty good for a bullpup semi-auto. Waaaaay better than the AUG, but that's not setting a high bar.
Someday... MAYBE... this particular rifle will be G2G for hunting level reliability.
If the SHTF, I've got other .308's that are the go to's for reliability.
I'm no expert though so take this all with a grain of salt.
Initially, it was tearing cartridge rims off almost every round and making it very frustrating to shoot. After 500 rounds it has smoothed out quite a bit. One ripped rim per 200 rounds, suppressed (sandman k) at lowest gas setting. I was initially using really crappy milsurp ammo so that was probably 40% of the cause. Switching to the 6 port plug alleviated a decent amount of the ripped rim failures. Still have a few hundred rounds of the misc milsurp ammo to go through.
The rear pin walks out about 1/4" during firing but stops right there and goes no further. I've seen some with fractured receiver tabs where that same pin locks in place. I haven't noticed obvious damage yet. Disconcerting to me, I check it every mag and push it back in as necessary. I'm giving it its first year and enough ammo to find the rest of the quirks in it so hopefully they all get fixed at once when I send it in for warranty.
It is very gassy suppressed, that didn't change with the new gas port. Enough so that my nose burns from the smell and I get a streak of black starting at my jawline and going halfway down my neck. The picatinny rail on the gas block is high burn hazard. Even with my scope mounted over it, I occasionally touch the side of it when moving it.
I haven't noticed any polymer failures yet but I'm certainly not saying it's impossible. I check the weapon regularly for failures of any kind I can think of because I don't trust it quite yet.
My thoughts, $2500 is a lot to spend on something that is not 100%. I had extra money and decided to try my luck with this purchase. As a range toy, it's pretty damned fun to shoot. I don't notice excessive recoil with it either suppressed, unsuppressed or braked.
I don't leave home with this rifle without a cleaning rod to knock out a ripped-rim case.
I won't be selling it except to upgrade to a newer/significantly improved MDR revision that cannot be retro-fitted into my rifle
The trigger is pretty good for a bullpup semi-auto. Waaaaay better than the AUG, but that's not setting a high bar.
Someday... MAYBE... this particular rifle will be G2G for hunting level reliability.
If the SHTF, I've got other .308's that are the go to's for reliability.
I'm no expert though so take this all with a grain of salt.
Well it not being a QC issue wasn't overly clear to me from any of those videos. All of which I'd watched multiple times in fact, before opening up this thread. Garand even mentions that it might be a QC issue in his (his videos are great BTW).
I definitely wasn't aware of all of these reported issues. I seem to hear either they're great or they suck with very few people in between. So I'll definitely have to checkout the bullpup forum. Thanks for that bit of info.
I definitely worded it wrong, but I'm hoping for a semiauto .308 bullpup. I had a GAP-10 as well as a Scar 17. Absolutely loved the GAP-10 (scar not so much). I do really love the bullpup platform. Most of the weird little changes don't bother me a bit ( I'm the only guy I know who prefers the P30/VP9 mag ejection lol)... Sucks to hear all that bad news about the MDR. It's one of the reasons I opened this thread though. I was on the Bushmaster ACR train really early. Loved that gun, but by the time I finally got a fully functional one from them I couldn't stand it. I have my eyes on that new tavor for sure, but definitely prefer somethings about the MDR as a whole. Ironically I never really gave the K&M much of a look because it didn't seem "finished" in my eyes lol.
onepointsixklicks thank you very much. That's exactly the kind of helpful info I'm out to hear... I have heard the gas can be overwhelming suppressed. I wonder if a OSS can would fix that? Then again OSS cans themselves have a list of issues lol.
Np, I'm a bullpup fan, so I am slightly biased. I've thought about the newer OSS cans as well but.... their weight and their problems have prevented me going that direction. Amtac is another flow-through suppressor design option but I know even less about them. I doubt it would eliminate it but it would probably help out a bit with the blowback.
Looking at the specs, it looks like the 7 has a 16.5" 12-twist barrel. Any idea if they're going to offer faster twist rates and/or longer barrels? Also, one of the appealing things about the MDR (to me) is the availability of barrels in other chamberings. For instance, I'd dearly love a nice bullpup in 6.5CM or 338 Federal.
Trying to eject brass through a narrow chute is a recipe for failure. It's clever in that a rh/lh switch is extremely simple, but if that ejecting brass isn't controlled all the way through the ejection chute, it's going to have issues, especially as dirt and fouling starts building up. The design doesn't leave much room for error or variance.
Supposedly yes the T7 will have a 20in "DMR" variant at some point, but who knows when. Think of how long it took them to get the .300blk X95s.
Yes, the MDR in theory was going to be a hell of a rifle. What we got was a hell of a dumpster fire. DT should really sell the design to a competent company at this point.
Yes, the MDR in theory was going to be a hell of a rifle. What we got was a hell of a dumpster fire. DT should really sell the design to a competent company at this point.
Yeah I think that particular part of the rifle was a bit ambitious for such a small company. I was actually thinking of just buying one and running it without the forward ejection cover on. Maybe even making and extra cover that is just open, but still keeps a decent amount of dirt out. Personally I have very little use if any for the forward ejection. The tavor doesn't have anything like that and I've never seen it as a problem.
I've had one since about September 2017. I have 5-600 rounds through it and it has been back to DT 3 times for various issues, some repeat issues, some were never fixed. It's the biggest pos firearms purchase I've ever made and honestly brings me no joy to shoot because since day one I've just been trying to see if it's going to run. 80-100rounds is probably the longest malfunction free streak. So far all the updates and revisions seem to be patches on a myriad of design flaws.
Unless you don't mind tinkering and like malfunction drills look elsewhere. If you just want a 308 bullpup that works buy a RFB, k&m m17 or wait for the Tavor. I can personally verify the RFB I had was a much better firearm.
Unless you don't mind tinkering and like malfunction drills look elsewhere. If you just want a 308 bullpup that works buy a RFB, k&m m17 or wait for the Tavor. I can personally verify the RFB I had was a much better firearm.
Interesting...
At least has the balls to stand up and address the public and are trying to fix the issues.
I currently have over 3K rounds through my MDR. I love the feel, balance and pretty happy with the control locations and like the ability to switch it to left hand in a few seconds. I'm unhappy with the difficulty in accessing the gas adjustment, hate the picatinny riser on the barrel and wish the accuracy was a bit better (.75-1.5 MOA typical). As mentioned earlier, the forearm is a weaker plastic, so I run metal plates behind my attachments (inside the handguard) to increase the surface area and reduce the chance of cracking. Trigger has smoothed out over time and is very good for a bullpup, but nothing close to their SRS/Covert trigger. I had numerous jamming issues during the break-in period (something I'm not used to on a rifle). That said it's been running pretty well lately with over 1K rounds fired without a jam (hand loads). Recently, I took the gun apart to clean it and a broken piece fell out (retention clip for the trigger pack), I'm working with DT on getting a new once sent out. DT has a long track record of delay after delay addressing lots of issues. That said, I'm still happy with mine and don't regret my purchase.
Thanks for the info brother. Love hearing some good feedback too.
Nick is full of shit. This guy has to be the most unconvincing CEO in this country, and possibly mildly autistic.
I was on the group buy on the bullpup forum for three years. It was lie after lie. The mdr is a complete failure, and what is most irritating is DT's inability to take accountability for anything. Nick joined the desert tech bullpup forum, only to embarrass himself with his arrogance, and lack of accountability. He has since disappeared from that forum, from after constantly roasted. The more he spoke, the deeper hole he would dig himself in.
Nick is part of the kingston clan, which is a polygamist mormon cult that owns a ton of businesses in Utah, and whom have had charges against them for sexual abuse of minors, fraud, and other charges. I've read from employees of DT that unless you are part of the kingston clan, you wouldn't get anywhere working there. If you are part of the kingston clan, and are a complete idiot, you'll get promoted. This type of nepotism can start to explain why DT is having problem after problem, and unable to come up with good solutions. You have a bunch of idiots running the show.
I would stay far away from the MDR, and after having a front row seat at this debacle, I personally would never purchase anything from DT.
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I don't know to much about all of that. I don't think its fair to call it a complete failure, and it is a really innovative weapon. I honestly think too much so for such a small company. Which is why they're having so much trouble with it.
Going to forums had good intention behind it. I just don't think he was the one who should've done it. Online people tend to throw a lot of hate and nonsense out, which makes it a rough place to try to explain yourself. I do believe he lied a bit to try to cover stuff up. I think the company mostly believed what they were saying though and just ran into a lot more problems than anticipated. I also personally think he's pretty terrible as a face of the company, just because he doesn't have the personality for it. I've wondered for a long time why he's still involved in any of their marketing.
The rest of that nonsense is just a lot of hearsay as far as I'm concerned. I'm not saying it couldn't be true. I'm just saying you shouldn't go spreading it as fact online unless you are damn sure. I've had nothing but good conversation with everyone I've ever talked to from desert tech (well DTA) and they were all great people. On top of that despite what you might think about the MDR the SRS and from what I've heard the HTI are both fantastic weapons which they came out with out of nowhere.
Going to forums had good intention behind it. I just don't think he was the one who should've done it. Online people tend to throw a lot of hate and nonsense out, which makes it a rough place to try to explain yourself. I do believe he lied a bit to try to cover stuff up. I think the company mostly believed what they were saying though and just ran into a lot more problems than anticipated. I also personally think he's pretty terrible as a face of the company, just because he doesn't have the personality for it. I've wondered for a long time why he's still involved in any of their marketing.
The rest of that nonsense is just a lot of hearsay as far as I'm concerned. I'm not saying it couldn't be true. I'm just saying you shouldn't go spreading it as fact online unless you are damn sure. I've had nothing but good conversation with everyone I've ever talked to from desert tech (well DTA) and they were all great people. On top of that despite what you might think about the MDR the SRS and from what I've heard the HTI are both fantastic weapons which they came out with out of nowhere.
Many sources online are confirming that DT is owned by the Kingston clan. The kingston clan has several members charged with incest, rape, fraud, and child molestation. Also, I read the nepotism allegations on glassdoor from former employees.
All of these factors could start to explain some of the dysfunctions of DT.
Also, If these are lies, I am sure Dt could have those comments removed and possibly sue those former employees for libel.
here are a few sources:
https://www.facebook.com/escapingpo...-the-businesses-owned-by-th/1094575173930000/
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2017/blood-cult
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latter_Day_Church_of_Christ
How is the MDR nothing but a failure? This has been hugely detrimental to the company, and their hopes to win military contract seem very slim right now. Unless they can fix the many issues plaguing themdr.
IMO, the MDR was too ambitious of a project for them to handle.
All of these factors could start to explain some of the dysfunctions of DT.
Also, If these are lies, I am sure Dt could have those comments removed and possibly sue those former employees for libel.
here are a few sources:
https://www.facebook.com/escapingpo...-the-businesses-owned-by-th/1094575173930000/
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2017/blood-cult
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latter_Day_Church_of_Christ
How is the MDR nothing but a failure? This has been hugely detrimental to the company, and their hopes to win military contract seem very slim right now. Unless they can fix the many issues plaguing themdr.
IMO, the MDR was too ambitious of a project for them to handle.
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Well those sources don't seem to have too much to do with DT, but even if the ownership is true that certainly shouldn't define them as a company. While I personally don't practice polygamy in any form. I do know of plenty of completely "normal" Mormons and they are for the most part outstanding people so I don't see how that part alone really has anything to do with this. Just so there isn't any misconception here, I was raised roman catholic and I haven't practiced any religion as an adult so I'm not just being biased.
Back when they were DTA (which had the same owners) Desert Tech turned down a $15 Million dollar deal with Pakistan. They were a brand new company that certainly could have used the deal (which was completely by the books). They didn't take it though because they feared one day those rifles could of ended up in the wrong hands and used against US troops. That should say far more about the company than any personal opinions about their owners religion. Especially considering just because one person in a religion does some awful shit it shouldn't define the religion as a whole. Certainly not a business owned by a practitioner of said religion.
The MDR isn't a complete failure because although it might have its issues. It's a completely new platform with some awesome stuff about it that I believe they will get working out despite what it cost. I've held one(not shot) and I thought it felt perfect. The trigger although a little heavy seemed perfect for a battle rifle. The announced it too soon, which caused them to let themselves get pressured into releasing it too soon, which ultimately put us where we are today. Hopefully it can get resolved and the awesome weapon so many people (including yourself) were so eager to get will actually come to be.
Back when they were DTA (which had the same owners) Desert Tech turned down a $15 Million dollar deal with Pakistan. They were a brand new company that certainly could have used the deal (which was completely by the books). They didn't take it though because they feared one day those rifles could of ended up in the wrong hands and used against US troops. That should say far more about the company than any personal opinions about their owners religion. Especially considering just because one person in a religion does some awful shit it shouldn't define the religion as a whole. Certainly not a business owned by a practitioner of said religion.
The MDR isn't a complete failure because although it might have its issues. It's a completely new platform with some awesome stuff about it that I believe they will get working out despite what it cost. I've held one(not shot) and I thought it felt perfect. The trigger although a little heavy seemed perfect for a battle rifle. The announced it too soon, which caused them to let themselves get pressured into releasing it too soon, which ultimately put us where we are today. Hopefully it can get resolved and the awesome weapon so many people (including yourself) were so eager to get will actually come to be.
Nick is a lying POS. Seriously all that guy does is lie. He has been lying about everything since day 1. Delivery times and time tables in generaly, testing methods procedures and results, materials used and sources, reliability, accuracy, and on and on. Bonus he bad mouths the SCAR, LMT, and a bunch of other rifles that actually works.
The bottom line is this: he knowingly shipped broken rifles and still hasn't fixed them. Anyone who has any hope or faith left in DT and especially management is ignorant or beyond delusional. To call the MDR anything but a complete failure is to simply not consult the facts. The best thing that can happen is for DT to sell the design to a competent manufacturer. Which I REALLY hope happens because in theory it looks great. Just such a shame they had to be greedy shady mofos about it.
The bottom line is this: he knowingly shipped broken rifles and still hasn't fixed them. Anyone who has any hope or faith left in DT and especially management is ignorant or beyond delusional. To call the MDR anything but a complete failure is to simply not consult the facts. The best thing that can happen is for DT to sell the design to a competent manufacturer. Which I REALLY hope happens because in theory it looks great. Just such a shame they had to be greedy shady mofos about it.
Maybe this 4th gas plug will be the one that makes it work right but I seriously have my doubts.
The ports were too big on the original, then they put out the 2nd 3pos plug. People were still having issues with ripped rims and/or short strokes, not enough adjustment. Then the 6pos plug comes out, still having issues where there isn't a setting that works 100% and now they're putting out another with slightly different ports. To me they need to take a step back and go over it again.
The ports were too big on the original, then they put out the 2nd 3pos plug. People were still having issues with ripped rims and/or short strokes, not enough adjustment. Then the 6pos plug comes out, still having issues where there isn't a setting that works 100% and now they're putting out another with slightly different ports. To me they need to take a step back and go over it again.
i could care less about their religion, that's not the point I was trying to make. I think there is something fundamentally wrong with how the company is being managed. Complete lack of transparency, and not taking accountability as a company, is about the worse way to do business.
For instance, Nick would blame his suppliers for bad parts and delays, but as a business owner, if your supplier isn't up to speed, you find a new one.
I had high hopes for the mdr, but the design seems to be severely flawed, and they can't seem to figure it out. Frankly, I don't think they have the competence to figure it out.
For instance, Nick would blame his suppliers for bad parts and delays, but as a business owner, if your supplier isn't up to speed, you find a new one.
I had high hopes for the mdr, but the design seems to be severely flawed, and they can't seem to figure it out. Frankly, I don't think they have the competence to figure it out.
Thinking out loud here, ripping rims to me suggests the gas system is to short. Like a 16" 308 with carbine gas... thank you DPMS for that learning experience.
Many of us have been thinking the same.
With the current port placement, piston, BCG mass, etc. for it to get enough inertia to cycle without short stroking it's unlocking too early and you end up with stuck cases. It's VERY picky on ammo .
The problem is the forward ejection system as designed requires a lot of force to function properly. So the longer you delay unlock, reduce carrier speed, cut gas, etc, the less reliable the forward ejection becomes. There is a tight window of proper function, and it scales towards being way over gassed because of this. It is harder than on a normal firearm because of this, you really need to redesign all parts (if only slightly) if you change one.
Yeah, that definitely seems to be the source of most of their troubles. It's also onr of the things that makes the rifle so different though. I think it would of been a good idea to just have a standard ejection (especially considering how easy it is to swap sides) on the original release. Then maybe they could really the forward ejection version after they made some of their R&D money back from the first.
I really hope they can bounce back from all of this MDR stuff. I think they are a really innovative company. The MDR must have already cost them a fortune both financially and in reputation. I'm glad they haven't just given up on it yet. I have a feeling a lot of these hardships won't effect the 5.56 as bad just because of the differences in the rounds design... Unfortunately I'm in it for the .308 lol.
If forward ejection is what you're after buy an RFB. Keltec's approach works and isn't so finicky.
I actually bought an RFB almost immediately after they came out lol. The RFB as well as every other Keltec gun I've owned sort of just feels like shit to me. I mean they function decently enough, but I certainly wouldn't consider them battle ready or anything like that. Combine that with the in hand feel of all of their weapons and I just can't get down with them anymore. Cool company, and definitely come up with some awesome radical designs! They're weapons just aren't for me anymore.
I'm afraid the mdr will likely leave you severely wanting then.
I only have about 100 rounds thru mine & I have to admit it’s the most unpleasant rifle to shoot ? I put a brake on it but with the 16” barrel I feel the blast on my face . Broke it in with mil surp Ammo & it never jammed , the dealer installed the new gas valve for free & so far it’s been cycling my hand loads with the valve on 5, I wasn’t aware of all the problems you guys are talking about but I’ll keep an eye on all of that now .
Lucky. I doubt I've ever made it 100rounds without some sort of failure
I finally think I got mine to where I think it is working reliably and not super over gased while suppressed. I run an OSS on it and the only issue I've had in the past 200 rounds was somehow the ejector arm door got blown off. I wasn't shooting it, I let a good friend of mine so I have no clue how that happened. Other then that, since getting the 2018 ^ position valve it seems to be working a lot better. It's the most infuriating rifle I own. When it works, it's my favorite but when it doesn't I just wanna chuck it. It has been thrown across the range once or twice...
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Appreciate the update, I've held it a loved it enough that I'm willing to deal with some issues. I'm just not willing to buy it if it's just fundamentally broken. I'm about ready to buy one now, just want to wait a little bit to see if DTA themselves has any updates.
I have to ask whats up with that handguard? I was always planning on buying the OSS with my MDR. I just don't want it sticking out like that.
I wanted to love mine but after about 500 rounds in the issues, many identified above, were too much for a rifle of this price range. My SCAR 17S runs like a raped ape and was the same price. I'm patiently awaiting the release of the Tavor 7. Delayed due to accuracy issues at factory testing and glad they are sorting that out now.
So That was the extended hand guard that went over the suppressor, but I cut it back so I can get a suppressor wrap over it.
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I know, my best buddy who I always shoot with has a nice 17s that I've got all outfitted for him and there has been a few times I said I shoulda got the SCAR. I just like the compact package, I'm hoping to get a 5.56 conversion kit and test that out too.
WAIT!
Lol I keep toying with the own at the gun store but I don't wanna have to buy a bunch of new 308 mags
I agree. I had so much success with the 17S that I purchased a 20S for my long range shooting. Great rifle!
Yeah I had a SCAR 17 a long while back. It never really thrilled me. I kind of just thought it felt boxy. Plus the cheap feeling stock really felt like crap to me... I get it will run in basically any condition which is great, but mine had pretty mediocre accuracy. Personally for what I do, I'd prefer 1 MOA accuracy and good reliability. Rather than 2-3 MOA accuracy that will run buried in the dirt.
My best friend who I shot the most with has a 17s, and the first few trips we took my MDR he was telling me I should just got the SCAR and I was almost upset enough to sell it. But for me, I love the bullpup, and now that I got mine to work I love it.
I want to love it but it is turning into more of a range toy/novelty here. Lot's of tinkering and fixes to get it to run. I am awaiting the gen3/4 gas plug and hoping that helps a bit. Recoil is a bit stout compared to my ar-10s. I am curious how it runs on .223 once I have the conversion.
If you want a fun range toy and pretend to play Halo...MDR works great for that...being a platform you can trust your life with...not so much...
