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designated rifleman upper in .300 BLK? Wilson Com?

870pilot

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Minuteman
Feb 16, 2010
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any Wilson Combat .300 Blackout upper owners?

need help in narrowing down choices for a .300 BLK upper to gear up. no department interest in a dedicated rifle. so i've narrowed down the choices between the noveske and wilson combat as this will be used in a rural law enforcement role. Wilson offers a LEO discount as well.
 
Re: designated rifleman upper in .300 BLK? Wilson Com?

Why not a 6.8 SPC? or a 5.56 Mk12 Mod 0/1 with a heavier bullet 77 grain, 80 grain.
 
Re: designated rifleman upper in .300 BLK? Wilson Com?

I own one. Love it. Buddy owns a Noveske.


I went with the fluted bbl to shave a few ounces.


I would buy a Wilson and never look back.
 
Re: designated rifleman upper in .300 BLK? Wilson Com?

6.8? Heavier bullet? How can you even consider having to run bolt dedicated to the 6.8? A 300 BLK is a 223 bolt with zero mods.....So if you want to get a 2nd upper for 5.56 anything then its just pop the pins and swap the bolt and carrier then you have 5.56, 223, 223 wylde, etc?

Heavier bullit I don't understand, you could load a 300 BLK anywhere from 110's-240's and anywhere inbetween. Its a no brainer what choice to make.
 
Re: designated rifleman upper in .300 BLK? Wilson Com?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: i_rep</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I own one. Love it. Buddy owns a Noveske.


I went with the fluted bbl to shave a few ounces.


I would buy a Wilson and never look back.</div></div>


thanks, bro... WC also supports LEO's with a discount !!!
 
Re: designated rifleman upper in .300 BLK? Wilson Com?

All that interchangeability does have a downside though...

Looky here

Complete BCG's are $125 & mags $15, I guess never really considered that a big investment when buying a new upper... And definitely wouldn't buy an anemic round because it's cheaper, that's why we have the 5.56. And sticking a .308 bullet in it doesn't do much but wreck it's trajectory.

If you insist on interchangeability and want a Wilson upper, why not go for the performance upgrade and get the 7.62X40?
 
Re: designated rifleman upper in .300 BLK? Wilson Com?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lwrkeysfisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All that interchangeability does have a downside though...

Looky here

Complete BCG's are $125 & mags $15, I guess never really considered that a big investment when buying a new upper... And definitely wouldn't buy an anemic round because it's cheaper, that's why we have the 5.56. And sticking a .308 bullet in it doesn't do much but wreck it's trajectory.

If you insist on interchangeability and want a Wilson upper, why not go for the performance upgrade and get the 7.62X40? </div></div>

Operator error is your citation for not going with 300 Blackout? Don't load a 300 Blackout round into a 223/556 chamber and pull the trigger. Problem solved.

The upside to the 300 Blackout round is enormous depending on the intended application.
 
Re: designated rifleman upper in .300 BLK? Wilson Com?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
lwrkeysfisher said:
Operator error is your citation for not going with 300 Blackout? Don't load a 300 Blackout round into a 223/556 chamber and pull the trigger. Problem solved.
</div></div>

Agreed. But add stress, fatigue, and/or inexperience and you are setting yourself/others up for failure. Tell me what other 'mainstream' round will do this and uses the same mags and bolt. I can't think of one, my guess is there's a reason for that.

And the reason I didn't choose the 300 is because the supersonic terminal ballistics still suck (despite the guerrilla marketing campaign) and have little use for a subgun with FMJ equiv. projectiles. I do understand that your 'needs' may be different.
 
Re: designated rifleman upper in .300 BLK? Wilson Com?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lwrkeysfisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Agreed. But add stress, fatigue, and/or inexperience and you are setting yourself/others up for failure. Tell me what other 'mainstream' round will do this and uses the same mags and bolt. I can't think of one, my guess is there's a reason for that.</div></div>

This is a poor argument against 300 Blackout at best. Maybe take shooting firearms serious and pay attention to what you're doing? I know, not too many people taking responsibility for their actions these days but that seems logical enough to me. Don't keep the two type of ammunition together. Use different colored mags. Look at what you're loading. I can go on and on but I really shouldn't have to.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lwrkeysfisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And the reason I didn't choose the 300 is because the supersonic terminal ballistics still suck (despite the guerrilla marketing campaign) and have little use for a subgun with FMJ equiv. projectiles. I do understand that your 'needs' may be different. </div></div>

I don't care about supersonic ballistics out of a longer barrel because I decided on 300 Blackout for it's ability to run short and suppressed. Going with an 8" barrel for your 223/556 with a suppressor is a dicey decision. The same setup in a subsonic 300 Blackout will stabilize the round before exiting the barrel so you don't get baffle strikes. The ballistics and behavior of this round For this use is INCREDIBLY attractive as an option.

Now, just like all other calibers, this isn't for everyone but for those who plan it utilize the round for the reasons it was developed it's great.
 
Re: designated rifleman upper in .300 BLK? Wilson Com?

870, I saw your thread on the other forum and can't wait for pics. I have an 8" Noveske.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I don't care about supersonic ballistics out of a longer barrel because I decided on 300 Blackout for it's ability to run short and suppressed. Going with an 8" barrel for your 223/556 with a suppressor is a dicey decision. The same setup in a subsonic 300 Blackout will stabilize the round before exiting the barrel so you don't get baffle strikes. The ballistics and behavior of this round For this use is INCREDIBLY attractive as an option.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Now, just all other calibers, this isn't for everyone but for those who plan it utilize the round for the reasons it was developed it's great. </span></div></div>

And what reasons would that be? For suppressed subsonic use?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For me, suppressed subsonic is the least useful reason to get 300 BLK.</div></div>
 
Re: designated rifleman upper in .300 BLK? Wilson Com?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lwrkeysfisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And the reason I didn't choose the 300 is because the supersonic terminal ballistics still suck (despite the guerrilla marketing campaign) and have little use for a subgun with FMJ equiv. projectiles. I do understand that your 'needs' may be different. </div></div>

Even from a 9 inch barrel at 100 yards - there is fantastic terminal performance. I really don't understand your hate.
300aacblk110grbarnessma.jpg


300-Blackout-1-400.jpg


300aacblkbarriersummary.jpg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRw-ypBgrKo
 
Re: designated rifleman upper in .300 BLK? Wilson Com?

I think the only problems with the supersonic loads are the poor external ballistics. The short stubby bullet has a very poor BC and is slow relative to other cartridges with similar weight. For shooting within 200 yards its a great cartridge.
 
Re: designated rifleman upper in .300 BLK? Wilson Com?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lwrkeysfisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And the reason I didn't choose the 300 is because the supersonic terminal ballistics still suck (despite the guerrilla marketing campaign) and have little use for a subgun with FMJ equiv. projectiles. I do understand that your 'needs' may be different. </div></div>

Even from a 9 inch barrel at 100 yards - there is fantastic terminal performance. I really don't understand your hate.
300aacblk110grbarnessma.jpg


300-Blackout-1-400.jpg


300aacblkbarriersummary.jpg




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRw-ypBgrKo

</div></div>

When is the ammo available---oh right, it's still being tested. And even at $1.15 per BULLET its performance is not any better than a TBBC bullet out of a 5.56. But don't worry, all that extra money per round gets you a crappy trajectory too. Keep up the marketing though, people are easily fooled by the glimmer of lights.

Its just annoying because it seems like I'm watching a Shamwow [.300blk] commercial every time I log on to a board lately.I guess the nice thing about these boards though is we can present ALL of the facts, not just the ones convenient to you selling your product.
 
Re: designated rifleman upper in .300 BLK? Wilson Com?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lwrkeysfisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When is the ammo available---oh right, it's still being tested. And even at $1.15 per BULLET its performance is not any better than a TBBC bullet out of a 5.56. But don't worry, all that extra money per round gets you a crappy trajectory too. Keep up the marketing though, people are easily fooled by the glimmer of lights.

Its just annoying because it seems like I'm watching a Shamwow [.300blk] commercial every time I log on to a board lately.I guess the nice thing about these boards though is we can present ALL of the facts, not just the ones convenient to you selling your product.
</div></div>

And just how does that trajectory look for a 5.56 out of a 8" barrel with a suppressor on the end? Oh, that's right... it probably won't clear w/o first getting a baffle strike.

300 Blackout isn't for everyone just like few rounds are perfect for all users. For people like me who run suppressed, want something VERY short and like the idea of 30rds w/o proprietary mags or lowers or anything else... this is the only round that does all that plus is an official SAAMI round. Out to 100yds an beyond this will still hit plenty hard and group nicely so for that crowd, nothing else out there fits that and you'll have a hard time convincing people like me to risk their suppressor on a PDW Diablo running 5.56 or similar. Take the hate elsewhere because nobody likes a thread crapper.
 
Re: designated rifleman upper in .300 BLK? Wilson Com?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lwrkeysfisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lwrkeysfisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And the reason I didn't choose the 300 is because the supersonic terminal ballistics still suck (despite the guerrilla marketing campaign) and have little use for a subgun with FMJ equiv. projectiles. I do understand that your 'needs' may be different. </div></div>

Even from a 9 inch barrel at 100 yards - there is fantastic terminal performance. I really don't understand your hate.
300aacblk110grbarnessma.jpg


300-Blackout-1-400.jpg


300aacblkbarriersummary.jpg




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRw-ypBgrKo

</div></div>

When is the ammo available---oh right, it's still being tested. And even at $1.15 per BULLET its performance is not any better than a TBBC bullet out of a 5.56. But don't worry, all that extra money per round gets you a crappy trajectory too. Keep up the marketing though, people are easily fooled by the glimmer of lights.

Its just annoying because it seems like I'm watching a Shamwow [.300blk] commercial every time I log on to a board lately.I guess the nice thing about these boards though is we can present ALL of the facts, not just the ones convenient to you selling your product.
</div></div>

So you are suggesting that a .223 TBBC ballistics and trajectory superior to the 300blk TSX, both rounds being fired from a 9" barrel.?

Do you have any data to support this claim?

.223 70gr TSX $.6/projectile
.223 70gr Speer semi-spitzer $.21/projectile
.308 110gr TSX $.67/projectile
.308 110gr Deep Curl $.2/projectile

Prices are from Midwayusa.com

I think all copper bullets tend to be a bit more costly than their lead and copper counterparts which may esplane the $1.16/round of the 300blk TSX.

Given time I feel there will be a larger selection of ammo to choose from. After all, it's not like it was developed in 1964. This should esplane why there is a larger selection of .223 ammo compared to the 300blk that was developed last year.

Back to these "facts" you are speaking of, where are yours?
 
Re: designated rifleman upper in .300 BLK? Wilson Com?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J.C.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think the only problems with the supersonic loads are the poor external ballistics. The short stubby bullet has a very poor BC and is slow relative to other cartridges with similar weight. For shooting within 200 yards its a great cartridge. </div></div>

The bullet is actually rather long and sleek.

umcdsc01724small.jpg
 
Re: designated rifleman upper in .300 BLK? Wilson Com?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lwrkeysfisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When is the ammo available---oh right, it's still being tested. </div></div>

You have a very short amount of time left to make such remarks. Both UMC and the Vortex as being loaded this week.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lwrkeysfisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And even at $1.15 per BULLET its performance is not any better than a TBBC bullet out of a 5.56.</div></div>

We call it ammunition. And magazines are not called clips. And the UMC is in the 50 cent a round range to consumers, and less than 40 cents a round to the govt in larger quantities.

The TBBC in 5.56mm cannot match the potential of 300 BLK. Even if it retains 100% of its weight, it will be like a 300 BLK with only 50% weight retention. Further down the list if importance, one cannot deer hunt in many states with 22 cal, and 5.56mm does poorly from short barrels.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lwrkeysfisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But don't worry, all that extra money per round gets you a crappy trajectory too. Keep up the marketing though, people are easily fooled by the glimmer of lights. </div></div>

Some people just don't like shooting people or medium sized game with varmint bullets.
 
Re: designated rifleman upper in .300 BLK? Wilson Com?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jer</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lwrkeysfisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When is the ammo available---oh right, it's still being tested. And even at $1.15 per BULLET its performance is not any better than a TBBC bullet out of a 5.56. But don't worry, all that extra money per round gets you a crappy trajectory too. Keep up the marketing though, people are easily fooled by the glimmer of lights.

Its just annoying because it seems like I'm watching a Shamwow [.300blk] commercial every time I log on to a board lately.I guess the nice thing about these boards though is we can present ALL of the facts, not just the ones convenient to you selling your product.
</div></div>

And just how does that trajectory look for a 5.56 out of a 8" barrel with a suppressor on the end? Oh, that's right... it probably won't clear w/o first getting a baffle strike.

300 Blackout isn't for everyone just like few rounds are perfect for all users. For people like me who run suppressed, want something VERY short and like the idea of 30rds w/o proprietary mags or lowers or anything else... this is the only round that does all that plus is an official SAAMI round. Out to 100yds an beyond this will still hit plenty hard and group nicely so for that crowd, nothing else out there fits that and you'll have a hard time convincing people like me to risk their suppressor on a PDW Diablo running 5.56 or similar. Take the hate elsewhere because nobody likes a thread crapper.</div></div>

I thought you just used the .300 for subloads? Whatever, it doesn't really matter. The OP asked about the .300BLK in a DM role (read: professional usage at range in shitty real life scenarios) each of my comments have applied directly to this. Let's recap:
1. Has ammo interchangeability issues with the 5.56 (could be an issue if .300 is used around 5.56 especially if used in like mags in high stress environments).
2. I also said the 300 has a rainbow trajectory. This creates more to think about in engagements (a slightly longer barreled .223 or same length barreled 6.8 have significantly better trajectories and better terminal ballistics)
3. Terminal performance sucks---new Barnes bullet helps but over penetrates, is NOT currently available, and is very expensive.
4. You said it is best for short barrels and subsonic use (not really a DM sort of thing.)

So basically I provided the OP some non-fanboy feedback concerning this round and his stated application, and yet I'm accused of thread crapping---nice. FWIW I put considerable thought/research into this cartridge in May/June last year and decided against it after realizing its limitations with regard to supersonic performance and a lack of suitable subsonic projectiles. My research paid off because I've read several accounts of less than clean kills with sub loads on deer and hogs, to the point that at least one person has recommended carrying a pistol to put a wounded animal out of its misery.

I'm glad the round works for you, have made my point, and will not post anything more on this thread.
 
Re: designated rifleman upper in .300 BLK? Wilson Com?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lwrkeysfisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">3. Terminal performance sucks---new Barnes bullet helps but over penetrates, is NOT currently available, and is very expensive.</div></div>

Terminal performance is outstanding.

Barnes has not announced a price for this ammo yet.

It is being loaded starting this week.
 
Re: designated rifleman upper in .300 BLK? Wilson Com?

Rsilvers, maybe you should re-read all of my posts---I never called mags 'clips'. And never said anything about "short" or "stubby" 300blk bullets. And in a different thread you referred to the cost as per "bullet" for the Barnes bullet, I was paraphrasing what you said. I'm not sure what BS you're trying to pull here but lying to attack my credibility is going a little too far...

Now I really am done with this thread.
 
Re: designated rifleman upper in .300 BLK? Wilson Com?

You said that 300 BLK was $1.15 per bullet. Since I don't know of any bullet that expensive, you must have meant per cartridge.
 
Re: designated rifleman upper in .300 BLK? Wilson Com?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This guy got a 300 BLK for his first AR:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsLGOqACc70&feature=colike</div></div>

Actually, that was a joke. He had just bought a 300 upper for his 223 AR he already owned. Not that it's a big deal either way.

To the OP, I think the 300 Blk shines most in a SBR suppressed platform. Personally, for any other application, I prefer the 223. However, I don't have hands on experience with the 300. Hopefully that will soon change, as I plan on buying a SBR 300.