Die setup for Concentricity/Neck Tension on a Progressive

[JRM83]

I have been thinking of jumping down the rabbit hole of case prep by chasing low runout and consistent neck tension and have reached the point of analysis paralysis. I am holding off on purchasing new die/tools until I get a good idea of what I will need. I am currently loading on a Hornady LNL AP and don't own a single stage press. I am not interested in neck-sizing only and I would like to stick with once fired military brass (currently using a lot of LC LR). Here are the setups I have been considering:


1. Redding Type S die - This would work well for consistent neck tension, but I have read that sizing down the neck more than .005 in a single pass induces runout. My fired brass measures right at .344 and a loaded round (LCLR) at .3375, so sizing down in one shot using a .336 bushing is more than the recommended .005. I would like to completely size the brass in one pass on the press, so is a neck-only combined with a full-length S die the solution? In addition I have read a few places that the bushing dies work best with brass that has uniform necks - is LC brass in general consistent enough for this?

2. Lee Collet + Body Die - The Lee die seems to minimize runout and give consistent neck tension and a body die will provide the shoulder bump. Are there any benefits to sizing the neck and bumping the shoulder at the same time that are lost by doing it in two separate steps? I read that the collet die requires consistent amounts of force on the press handle - how well does this die work running on a progressive press with the other stations filled?

3. Lee Collet + Redding Type S - The idea here is use the Lee die to size the neck down from it's fired diameter with low runout and then set the neck tension and bump the shoulder with the Redding die. Thoughts?

Thanks in advance for any help you fine folks can provide. This is my first foray into the world of extreme consistency so please let me know where I'm wrong and what misconceptions I have.

 

[Splat]

I've been trying to decide which route to take also. I am leaning on the Collet. Hopefully someone will chime in.

 

[ZombieMonkey]

Redding Type S used with a case in every position will give you very consistent results int the LNL. Why are you sizing your brass back so much? You do not have to nor should you run your dies all the way until they are touching the shell plate. If this is for a bolt gun, bumping the shoulders back 0.001-0.002 would be advisable while a bump of 0.003-0.004 is sufficient for most semi-autos to run very reliably.

I'd recommend staying away from neck sizing. From the results I have seen, a properly adjusted full length die with proper lubing of the cases will net you very good results. My personal preference are on the Redding or Forster dies when it comes to FL dies, I've had the best luck out of the ones I've tested from RCBS, Hornady, Lee, Redding, and Forster.

 

[JRM83]

Redding Type S used with a case in every position will give you very consistent results int the LNL. Why are you sizing your brass back so much? You do not have to nor should you run your dies all the way until they are touching the shell plate. If this is for a bolt gun, bumping the shoulders back 0.001-0.002 would be advisable while a bump of 0.003-0.004 is sufficient for most semi-autos to run very reliably.

I'd recommend staying away from neck sizing. From the results I have seen, a properly adjusted full length die with proper lubing of the cases will net you very good results. My personal preference are on the Redding or Forster dies when it comes to FL dies, I've had the best luck out of the ones I've tested from RCBS, Hornady, Lee, Redding, and Forster.

Thanks for the reply! I am not talking about bumping the shoulders back by that much, I am referring to sizing down the necks. I have read a ton of claims that Redding recommends not sizing down the necks more than .005 at a time or runout will be induced. I cant find a source from redding directly to confirm, but I have a found lot of others that echo this. I understand minimal shoulder bump to ensure chambering and am looking at controlling neck tension. I also have no interest in neck-sizing only. Have you ever measured the runout on a case sized with just a redding type s die, and if so, what type of brass and other preparation steps did you use?

 

[ZombieMonkey]

I'm sorry, I completely misread your question, I was looking at another thread and mixed up the questions a bit. Sorry. However, runout with the Redding Type S when properly adjusted for me was 0.001-0.002 in the LNL. Nothing I would be terribly concerned about unless you care to chase ghosts. If neck sizing I would definitely do it in 0.005 step increments as it can help avoid some of the runout issues you can encounter with neck sizing. With the full length dies I will admit that I have never bothered to check or have worried about how much it was squeezing down the necks from the fired state. I've only checked for neck tension with the full length dies and I've yet to encounter any issues with this. Runout is not something I've had to battle with the FL dies I've set up on the Hornady LNL or my current XL650 and Redding Big Boss II. Only time I've seen issues has been with excessive neck sizing in a single step. I don't fool with neck sizing as I am of the mindset that a properly setup FL die can achieve similar results without the drawbacks of neck sizing only.

 

[Unknown]

I have been finding that most of my runout issues are caused by little things that add up to more and more runout. Some of the issues I have solved that caused runout are:

1. Necks being pulled off center by too little lube inside the case neck. Loosening my expander ball rod so it can float, or using a floating expander ball also helps.

2. Inconsistent neck tension caused by firing cases with various numbers of loadings on each case. Each firing hardens the neck a wee bit, and over time it adds up.

3. Inconsistent neck tension caused by necks of varying length..trimming fixes that.

4. Varying case neck wall thickness. Turning cases fixes that.

5. Having the case pushed off the center axis of the die by dirt in the groove of the shell holder. Clean the shell holder free of all case media, and other dirt.

Solving these issues did more to reduce my overall runout than buying better dies did. Sure, I use good dies like Forster or Redding, but I got more overall runout reduction from solving these issues. As I'm not a bench rest shooter, I eventually figured that going too far down the rabbit hole of chasing runout and neck tension just didn't give me as much improvement at matches as doing a reasonably quality job of reloading, and spending more time actually practicing shooting from field positions did. But your thread is only on runout, so I won't get started on the reloading vs practice debate.

 

[ZiaHunter]

I load 308 for my gas guns on a Dillon 550B. I was experiencing excessive runout with the standard Dillon dies and tried a number of different options before I found one that worked. I mounted an expander die in the first station to remove and dings in the necks and a Type S FL sizing die in the second station with the decapping pin and expander removed. Once FL sized, trim all cases to length with a Giraud. The tool head is then changed out to one with a Type S neck sizing die in station one, This die decaps as well as reduce the neck size for more tension if required. Station 2 and 3 contain the charging and seating station, respectively. Station 4 is not used. For seating a Redding competition seating die is used. This process has produced loads with very low runout for a progressive and generally .003 or less at the Ogive. BTW all of the brass has been sorted by headstamp and annealed after each firing.