So it's time for a new pickup, the 25 yearold F350 CCDRW with PSD and 6 speed manual is getting old. Looking at the big three 3/4 ton 4X4 shortbed, everything I read is a daily driver is a no no with DPF, never gets up to operating temperature and soon the DPF clogs and the engine goes into limb mode. I also read DEF will freeze in cold weather and cause limp mode. You guys with modern diesels, what the 411. What brand has the best implementation of DPF. Thanks.
- Thread starter Californio
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Duramax/Allison combo is the best out there. Fords and Rams will be in limp wrist mode when you drive them off the lot.
How far is your commute and what temperatures do you expect to see? I'd personally buy a gasser but I don't know what your needs are.
We have 12 of the Ford diesels in the fleet, there have been a couple little issues out of a couple trucks. But they are good to go. My 2015 has almost 200k on it. If they are just driven around a bit here and there they will be in Regen more often which can lead to issues. Def can freeze at 12 degrees, the trucks do have heaters in the def tanks. Last year I was driving my truck back and forth like 5 miles at 30mph, one day it went into continuous Regen after doing that almost every day for a couple weeks. I drove it to town and back and was mean to it the whole time to help blow out the dpf and it has been just fine since. If I didn't have the toy hauler, equipment to move...I would really think about getting one with the 7.3 Godzilla. We do have a few trucks with the 6.8 gas engine, it would be fine for lighter hauling / towing. they suck down the fuel.
It really depends on how far you drive it daily. The engine needs to get up to operating temperature and stay there for enough time to do a regen while driving. I haven't messed with pickups much, mainly class 6-8 trucks and equipment but it should call for a parked regen if you don't do enough driving to do it on its own before it derates or goes into limp mode. Def does freeze at 14 degrees but there is a def heater in the tank and the lines are heated as well. A heater valve is there to maintain tank temps to keep from freezing, but it will stay below 100⁰ to keep from ruining the def quality, level, and temperature sensor.
By time you get the outlet nox sensor hot enough to dose def, the tank will be thawed out. I can't say one brand is better than the other, but they all have issues at some point unless you're really lucky. Some of the trucks we have run with minimal downtime but you always have one or two that seem to be prone to issues regardless of the maintenance. Preventative maintenance really helps, a really dirty air filter or a small exhaust leak can cause issues. I work with MeKaNiKs that don't seem to understand this and I have to go out to the field or bring them to the shop to fix their service trucks
By time you get the outlet nox sensor hot enough to dose def, the tank will be thawed out. I can't say one brand is better than the other, but they all have issues at some point unless you're really lucky. Some of the trucks we have run with minimal downtime but you always have one or two that seem to be prone to issues regardless of the maintenance. Preventative maintenance really helps, a really dirty air filter or a small exhaust leak can cause issues. I work with MeKaNiKs that don't seem to understand this and I have to go out to the field or bring them to the shop to fix their service trucks
The only reason I'd buy a modern choked out diesel is if I was pulling well over 20K or needed a PTO, and I most definitely will not be. If I did, I'd be putting my CDL to use and getting a real truck instead of using a pickup to do a truck's job.
Our company stopped buying diesel for anything that doesn't say Freightliner/Mack/International on the front and at least 30K GVWR. The maintenance costs were not worth it any longer for 450/4500 class and below vehicles and switched to gassers for all new work pickups.
DEF freezes at ~12*F, but most trucks start just fine without it and the tanks have heaters built in once it's running. We've never had any issues in Wyoming winters with freezing DEF, but we do know to never fill it all the way up in winter. New guys neglecting to plug it in before heading to the bar at end of shift, now there's another issue...
Our company stopped buying diesel for anything that doesn't say Freightliner/Mack/International on the front and at least 30K GVWR. The maintenance costs were not worth it any longer for 450/4500 class and below vehicles and switched to gassers for all new work pickups.
DEF freezes at ~12*F, but most trucks start just fine without it and the tanks have heaters built in once it's running. We've never had any issues in Wyoming winters with freezing DEF, but we do know to never fill it all the way up in winter. New guys neglecting to plug it in before heading to the bar at end of shift, now there's another issue...
i hear they make these fancy new electric trucks.
They don’t have any of the problems you are worried about
Before you plunk down money on a new truck, how much do you really want a huge monthly payment?
The next question is 'do the new trucks do anything your truck doesn't do?'
M
The next question is 'do the new trucks do anything your truck doesn't do?'
M
What’s a DPF? Lol
Sorry, I had to.
All I can say is, if I bought anything with a DPF/tier 4, it’s getting deleted immediately.
Sorry, I had to.
All I can say is, if I bought anything with a DPF/tier 4, it’s getting deleted immediately.
My 2005 dodge 3500 5.9 has 400k on it and still gets 21mpg while not towing , I asked a shop owner what it would cost to rebuild the motor and got a quote of 8k , that's a bargain compared to the cost of the new diesels that get maybe 18mpg and are in the shop half the time , might think about just rebuilding what you got.
I would just avoid it at all cost. Just the cost alone of having to replace one out of warranty is staggering. I know, I deal with them every single day all day, all over the US and Canada. I manage huge fleets for your megacorporations and quite a few cities and states. We deal with probably 4-5 million cars, trucks, semis, trailers or whatever piece of equipment that has wheels and some that don't.
I feel people with the 6.7 Fords. It's possibly the biggest POS on the road, but people love them... until they have to pay crazy money to fix them. Half my day is dealing with their shit ass designs and stupid repair prices. If it's not the DPF, it's going to be some stupid ass sensor that goes out, NOX, DPF pressure sensor, DEF related issues that is going to put you into reduced engine power. Not only is their emissions system total shit, so is their fuel systems and cooling systems on the 6.7s. Metal in the fuel system on a 6.7 Ford? Thats at least 11-13k in repairs if you are lucky. I get shady ass shop trying to charge 15-30 hours for this job ALL the time. I see that repair at least 2-3 times a week.
Personally ,with a light duty vehicle, 4500/450 chassis and under get the big gas engine versions. The new 7.3. Ford isn't that bad, I haven't seen too many issues with them yet. And the GM 6.6 has been very good, probably going to be as good as the good old 6.0 LS engines.
I feel people with the 6.7 Fords. It's possibly the biggest POS on the road, but people love them... until they have to pay crazy money to fix them. Half my day is dealing with their shit ass designs and stupid repair prices. If it's not the DPF, it's going to be some stupid ass sensor that goes out, NOX, DPF pressure sensor, DEF related issues that is going to put you into reduced engine power. Not only is their emissions system total shit, so is their fuel systems and cooling systems on the 6.7s. Metal in the fuel system on a 6.7 Ford? Thats at least 11-13k in repairs if you are lucky. I get shady ass shop trying to charge 15-30 hours for this job ALL the time. I see that repair at least 2-3 times a week.
Personally ,with a light duty vehicle, 4500/450 chassis and under get the big gas engine versions. The new 7.3. Ford isn't that bad, I haven't seen too many issues with them yet. And the GM 6.6 has been very good, probably going to be as good as the good old 6.0 LS engines.
If you can't afford to pony up for "new diesel" repairs, then you need to pay for what you own now. Either gas or diesel....whatever it is, spend you money on the devil you know.
Just rolled 630k on my 2011 f-250 6.7 power stroke yesterday been deleted since about 175k
So my plan is to put a Deck Box in the bed and an overland rack at cab height, overland tent on top of the rack. This is a retirement rig. The hp inflatable will store on top of the Deck Box along with water proof storage boxes, me and the little lady will takeoff for trips in Idaho, Montana and Wyoming. Also will be a hunting and fishing rig with a small aluminum boat or a UTV in tow. So the bed will have 1000 lbs on it all the time and more when we load for a trip, no big trailers, we like simple basic camping.
To me, everything you listed screams half ton pickup at the most.
1000 LBS in the bed at all times, even more when loaded.
IMO that in not 1/2 Ton Territory.
Unless ya'll like riding on the bump stops
What is a ton? 2,000? Whats half of that?
The only 1/2 ton I would consider is a V8, not a fan of turbo V6 or turbo 4's. I want lockers front and rear, so solid front axle instead of IFS. I have never had a RAM but the Rebel or Power Wagon is a consideration.
He basically described a overlanding rig. So you are right, 1/2 ton isn't really needed. Your basic 4 Runner, Jeep, Taco usually have about that much extra weight added to their vehicles for such activities
huh...
I used an F-250 for work with a topper that had around 1500LBS in the bed and we had to add air shocks to keep the thing from bottoming out. Drove it all around the Easter US.
A legit 1,000LBS+ of weight is literally the max you are supposed to put in a 1/2 tons bed.
You'd look like the damn beverly hillbillys with that load in a Taco.
Reading comprehension.... Try it.
Op said, "So the bed will have 1000 lbs on it all the time and more when we load for a trip, no big trailers, we like simple basic camping."
Also will be a hunting and fishing rig with a small aluminum boat or a UTV in tow.
That is not 150, 1500 territory.
You could do it, Hell I have towed a 3,300Lbs Palet of cement on a trailer rated for 1800LBS with an 1989 ranger... but I wouldn't call it safe or smart.
Front and rear lockers tells me you want to crawl. That alone tells me half ton at most, simply for the reduced dry weight. Heavy duty pickups work, light duty play, and off roading aftermarket support is far greater for light duty trucks.
Half ton pickups haven’t had half ton maximum capacity in years. GVWR has climbed as fast as the S&P 500. Look at the payload capacities of current half ton pickups, you won’t find a single one that’s at or under 1000lbs. Even Tacos have nearly 1000lbs payload capacity.
I have 1500 lbs of tools and parts in my 3/4 ton right now on top of another 1500 lbs of hyrail equipment. Does that mean I’m way over loaded? Nope, still under 10k spec’d GVWR and not close to exceeding either GAWR.
I should reiterate what I mean is that those vehicles with that kind of weight added usually have upgraded shocks and springs to handle it. Going out west camping out with friends we have actually stopped by a weigh station and weighed the rigs. All of them had a least a 1k -1500 extra of weight added to the overall weight of the vehicles.
I do it with a 4runner. Just have heavier springs in the rear. They sell them in 220, 440 and 880 over stock rates, for permanent loads.
Not sure what you are not comprehending about what you wrote, but i drove for years with half a ton inside a half ton, and occasionally towed, for years, no modifications and no problems.
Yeah but your Trans, Brakes, Wheel bearings, Suspension components and Tires are getting pushed to their limit.
I am not sayin you cant do it. What I am saying is I think a bigger rig would be the smarter move.
I am not sayin you cant do it. What I am saying is I think a bigger rig would be the smarter move.
I put a FULL pallet of shotgun rounds into the back of an Isuzu Rodeo.....and drove 300 miles.
Yea it had air lift springs.
Was an easy load.
A 1/2 ton p/u will handle a lot more than YOU think it will.
How many 3/4 ton p/ups do you see with a 12' cab over camper do you see ?
You do know those weight well over a ton, right ?
They already are built for it right off the showroom floor. 1k in the back of a half ton pickup is a joke anymore as they’re built for >75% more than that, not to mention crazy high GCWR ratings that make my old big block ‘91 F250 look like a Ranger.
This is not 1987, phones aren’t on the wall and pickups aren’t capped by “XYZ-ton” ratings.
You can load a pallet of Cement in an overload trailer hooked to a puny little truck thats weights less than the load and literally slide down a hill backwards to unload it…
But I wouldn’t suggest it as a wise thing.
Edit... Yeah, I do Cement work...
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Op, instead of a roof top tent, look at jumping jack trailers. As long as you dont plan on towing another trailer for something like a heavy boat.
You can park quads, dirtbikes, boat, sinde by side, gear or whatever and have an easy to use marine grade canvas tent with 2 beds and a table. Used they sell for half of new, ive wheeled in some nasty shit with a polaris on top of it and a bunch of gear. Just upgrade the tires is my only suggestion. They you can drive away from camp or set up camp in the dark, by yourself in less than 5 minutes. Torsion bar axle holds a bunch of weight and if you pull the tent out, you can use it as a utility trailer. They sell them in 8, 12 and 16'. The 12' with 8' tent is really cool cause you have a deck to put gear without getting dirty.
You can park quads, dirtbikes, boat, sinde by side, gear or whatever and have an easy to use marine grade canvas tent with 2 beds and a table. Used they sell for half of new, ive wheeled in some nasty shit with a polaris on top of it and a bunch of gear. Just upgrade the tires is my only suggestion. They you can drive away from camp or set up camp in the dark, by yourself in less than 5 minutes. Torsion bar axle holds a bunch of weight and if you pull the tent out, you can use it as a utility trailer. They sell them in 8, 12 and 16'. The 12' with 8' tent is really cool cause you have a deck to put gear without getting dirty.
Second that. The days when a diesel engine was a valid premium option to get more grunt and reliability in a medium duty truck are OVER.
If you want new, pick a gasser until you get deep into CDL B or A territory.
Modern diesels are terrible. I work automotive and you couldn't pay me to drive one with all the problems it will end up having.
I'd also comment that a modern 3/4 or 1 ton truck is a fucking awful idea for offroad usage. You can't see out of the damn things for starters. And the "offroad" trims are mostly bullshit. I've seen AT4s come into our shop with busted suspension components from barely offroad use that had less than 20k miles on them.
I'd also comment that a modern 3/4 or 1 ton truck is a fucking awful idea for offroad usage. You can't see out of the damn things for starters. And the "offroad" trims are mostly bullshit. I've seen AT4s come into our shop with busted suspension components from barely offroad use that had less than 20k miles on them.
Let me try and create use some use plans,
Local use summer and winter, winter gets snow storms, snow usually lasts a few days at 5000' my AO but sticks at 7,500' for the season, summer gets monsoon flash floods, no services in these backwoods areas, 100's of miles of non paved Forest Service Roads.
1. Fishing the small stocked lakes with kayak, forest service roads only maintained after May 1 until November 1 all dirt except for a few miles of pavement. No Cell service, we have a GMRS repeater on a high mountain or inReach.
2. Shooting Range, 2 mile dirt road off the paved road on a Forest Service Road, elevation 4000'
3. Hookup buddies 12' aluminum boat and travel to the two big lakes, one 20 minutes and the other 40 minutes.
4. Hookup buddies UTV trailer and tow on a dirt Forest Service Road to a Trail Head and rock crawl to hunting spot, to hot for UTV in the summer, winter activity.
Travel with Little Lady, month on the road, hit a motel every third day and fish off the Kayak, no trailers, dirt Forest Service Roads, a few creek crossings with rocks.
So no rock crawling except for crossing creeks. Real Rock Crawling with a buddy, not wife. and using a UTV. The Truck will have a DECK Box, Overland Rack and all the tools needed solve your own problems, these Forest Roads at your own risk. Need a 700 mile range.
Local use summer and winter, winter gets snow storms, snow usually lasts a few days at 5000' my AO but sticks at 7,500' for the season, summer gets monsoon flash floods, no services in these backwoods areas, 100's of miles of non paved Forest Service Roads.
1. Fishing the small stocked lakes with kayak, forest service roads only maintained after May 1 until November 1 all dirt except for a few miles of pavement. No Cell service, we have a GMRS repeater on a high mountain or inReach.
2. Shooting Range, 2 mile dirt road off the paved road on a Forest Service Road, elevation 4000'
3. Hookup buddies 12' aluminum boat and travel to the two big lakes, one 20 minutes and the other 40 minutes.
4. Hookup buddies UTV trailer and tow on a dirt Forest Service Road to a Trail Head and rock crawl to hunting spot, to hot for UTV in the summer, winter activity.
Travel with Little Lady, month on the road, hit a motel every third day and fish off the Kayak, no trailers, dirt Forest Service Roads, a few creek crossings with rocks.
So no rock crawling except for crossing creeks. Real Rock Crawling with a buddy, not wife. and using a UTV. The Truck will have a DECK Box, Overland Rack and all the tools needed solve your own problems, these Forest Roads at your own risk. Need a 700 mile range.
You don't want a diesel for dirt roads and creeks. The front end will sink to the axle if it's soft. The godzilla mentioned earlier is my recommendation as well.
Godzilla motors have serious problems according to our Ford unit. The diesel isn't going to sink any worse than a gas job in the same truck chassis.
None of the stuff you've mentioned OP require a 2500/3500 class truck honestly. If you were towing a tractor or other equipment maybe.
Decked boxes also suck. The drawers can't really hold that much weight without breaking. We haven't had good luck with them.
If it were me I’d go with a Tacoma and pull an off-road trailer with roof top tent on it then when I get to camp I can unhook the trailer and still have full use of my truck. I’m in the process of building my off-road trailer now, I’ve been gathering parts to start this fall/winter hopefully be done for springtime.
Do you currently use the F-350 to do this activity below, if so, I don’t see why it would be a reason a modern one would not be able to do it. Having that turbo charger is nice when you start getting up in the thin air.
Btw. I the modern big three diesels, have personally seen and driven have run well. The DEF/ emission equipment can be a pita, but at the same time it burns clean, you don’t smell of diesel, no smoke.
I haven’t seen much in the way of issues with the actual particulate filter, it’s generally DEF related.
My pap has a 2017 F-250 6.7 about six months ago, it threw a DEF heater code, World Ford in Baton Rouge, fixed it for free after he talked to them. First issue he has had with it, simply erasing the code with a $30 OBD2 scanner would clear the code and end the detune issue, and it ran fine until he finally got it in to them, though the code would trip every couple days. Nothing major was wrong with it just $200 heater part.
At the same time I have seen and heard horror stories, I have a buddy who did a hot shot trucking thing, and he totally got fucked over by a GM 3500 with emissions issues. Lost 3 months of business last time I talked to him, and the issue still wasn’t resolved.
But being stuck out in the wilderness and having some De-tune, bullshit happen, It would be fucking annoying
Personally, i’ve heard good things about the Godzilla‘s from owners.
I still can’t believe people are suggesting Tacoma’s to a guy looking at 2500s…
Btw. I the modern big three diesels, have personally seen and driven have run well. The DEF/ emission equipment can be a pita, but at the same time it burns clean, you don’t smell of diesel, no smoke.
I haven’t seen much in the way of issues with the actual particulate filter, it’s generally DEF related.
My pap has a 2017 F-250 6.7 about six months ago, it threw a DEF heater code, World Ford in Baton Rouge, fixed it for free after he talked to them. First issue he has had with it, simply erasing the code with a $30 OBD2 scanner would clear the code and end the detune issue, and it ran fine until he finally got it in to them, though the code would trip every couple days. Nothing major was wrong with it just $200 heater part.
At the same time I have seen and heard horror stories, I have a buddy who did a hot shot trucking thing, and he totally got fucked over by a GM 3500 with emissions issues. Lost 3 months of business last time I talked to him, and the issue still wasn’t resolved.
But being stuck out in the wilderness and having some De-tune, bullshit happen, It would be fucking annoying
Personally, i’ve heard good things about the Godzilla‘s from owners.
I still can’t believe people are suggesting Tacoma’s to a guy looking at 2500s…
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Because he hasn't demonstrated a need for a 3/4 or 1 ton truck...
lol
Fucking Taco people... Its a quarter ton truck.
They are 1,100 Lbs gross. unless you get the 4 banger 2wd. But a V6 4wd is around 1,100 gross you are supposed to put in it.
I assume he and his wife likely weigh in the 3 to 400LBS relm... just in people... Now you are down to 7-800LBs. He wants to put 1000Lbs of extra shit in it all day every day.. Then add move when he travels... You are well over gross.
Come the fuck on with that shit.
No wonder you have a fucking Pokemon as an avatar. common core math??
Hey I'm not saying he needs a Taco. But I wouldn't run a 2500/3500 for what he's looking to do with it and certainly not a damn diesel.
For the record I don't have a Taco. But I do work at the dealership level for one of the big three. If he wants a 2500/3500 a GM 6.6L gas is good and few problems. But realistically he dosen't need more than a half-ton and either way these pickups aren't great off road unless you blow a bunch of money on something with beefier suspension setups.
I have been around the business too...
He is not going off roading. Unpaved forestry roads are rough, but not "off roading"
He is not going off roading. Unpaved forestry roads are rough, but not "off roading"
Nothing new is easy to work on I can tell you that. Far too many god damn electronics and the quality of the parts is fucking terrible. Brand doesn't matter anymore. They all suck now.
Worst part about living in New England is the rust eats away at having a good old vehicle and keeping it a long time. Hell I wanted a gen 1 Super Duty with the 7.3 IDI but I'm hearing the BCMs are dying in them now and no one manufactures them anymore so you're fucked when it goes. It's really too bad. The manufacturers have geared the market into being a dispoable one. The days of buying a fully galvanized 1988 Cheyenne 2500 and keeping it for 30 years before it finally rots away too much to drive are over (god I miss that truck).
Our 20+ Chevy 3500hd crew cabs are getting 15mpg out of the 6.6 gasser. This is with a topper, ladder rack, full of tools, parts, etc.
I wouldn't buy a half ton because of the emissions. The 3/4+ have less stringent standards, and this means less parts and computer trickery to manipulate.
Gas is easy and cheap to maintain. Cheaper to buy. Less stinky to fuel....
Although I do love that I can fill my Duramax in 2 minutes or less at the semi-truck pumps.
...which is why I bought a Ram 2500 for the proposed trip to Ushuia. I figured 'better to have the extra capacity and find out I don't need it, then get halfway and find out I DO need it.'
Yes, I know people do Tacomas for overlanding all the time. Doesn't mean that its the right tool for the job
M
Tacomas suck for "Overlanding" or whatever the kids are calling truck camping these days to sell $3000 tents.
Tacomas are awesome if you're a believer in leaving the house at home when you go camping. Leaving the house at home typically means leaving the woman at home too, and 99 times out of 100 in the woods, that's all the better. They’re also awesome to not have people invite themselves along or help them move.
I pick up my new Tacoma next weekend because it will get me where I want to go with everything I want to bring, and I won't have to Jeep wave at anyone. I still prefer to camp out of a backpack, sleep on the ground and ruck deep into the primitive areas because that's about the only place in the US left that doesn't have hoards of instacrack and tictack fags fucking ruining it.
Also, notice never once did I recommend a Taco to the OP because it's a horrible decision if you want to bring >1000# of shit with you to go camping. My ruck with everything I need weighs about 60#, plenty of excess load capacity and it will work just fine for me, but definitely not for the OP.
I also spend all day, every day at work on back country dirt roads in an F250. They fucking suck on washboards and rocked up roads due to the heavy springs and load range E tires. Another huge plus for the half ton over 3/4-1 ton.
Tacomas are awesome if you're a believer in leaving the house at home when you go camping. Leaving the house at home typically means leaving the woman at home too, and 99 times out of 100 in the woods, that's all the better. They’re also awesome to not have people invite themselves along or help them move.
I pick up my new Tacoma next weekend because it will get me where I want to go with everything I want to bring, and I won't have to Jeep wave at anyone. I still prefer to camp out of a backpack, sleep on the ground and ruck deep into the primitive areas because that's about the only place in the US left that doesn't have hoards of instacrack and tictack fags fucking ruining it.
Also, notice never once did I recommend a Taco to the OP because it's a horrible decision if you want to bring >1000# of shit with you to go camping. My ruck with everything I need weighs about 60#, plenty of excess load capacity and it will work just fine for me, but definitely not for the OP.
I also spend all day, every day at work on back country dirt roads in an F250. They fucking suck on washboards and rocked up roads due to the heavy springs and load range E tires. Another huge plus for the half ton over 3/4-1 ton.
Well, a tacoma with some extra suspension is quite capable and can be had with a rear locker. Plenty capable out of the box, but with shocks, springs uca and a set of sliders, it will outwheel a lot of lifted jeeps. But it is a fairly light duty truck.
Anyone know if tundras came with a rear locker(not lsd)? If i had to pick any newer truck, it would be a tundra, 5.7. 10.5" rear differential should take a pounding. I classify them as a heavy duty half ton.
Anyone know if tundras came with a rear locker(not lsd)? If i had to pick any newer truck, it would be a tundra, 5.7. 10.5" rear differential should take a pounding. I classify them as a heavy duty half ton.
4 people in the cab... 1/4 ton in the bed.
Auto standard is 150 per person, looking to change to 175 because cheese burgers...
So 4x150=600... 1100-600=500lbs.
A V6 4x4 Tacoma is a 1/4 ton truck and once again you have proven you don't know that much about vehicles or 2nd grade math.
Thanks for playing. (beware the rainbow gobblins)
