Differences in primers?

[Iggy]

I have been searching the site and the net with my google powers and I haven't really come up with anything. I was trying to find information on the difference between some of the major brand of primers. I was looking specifically for large rifle primers.

Comparing Winchester vs. Remignton vs. Federal vs. Wolf vs. CCI my questions below:

<ul style="list-style-type: disc">[*]Is there a difference in quality?[*]Is there a differnece in consistency?
[*]Is there a huge difference in pressure?
[*]Is anyone prefered over the other and why?
[*]Is are there any that are not very reliable? I didn't find any information on Remington 9 1/2's [/list]

 

[Victor N TN]

Re: Differences in primers?

Every couple of years one of the magazines (Precision Shooting comes to mind) does a dark room stop action kind of photo shoot with a special rig just to compare the size and heat from the flash of the primer.

Some kind of generalizations:

BR quality primers have a very slight flash.
Match primers are a little hotter.
Most match primers have the same general specs of standard large rifle or small rifle primers.
Magnum, either large rifle or small rifle will have a larger and more violent flash than their standard cousin.

The larger the case volume, usually the hotter the primer needs to be to get a consistant burn on the powder column. The geometry of the powder column will have a large part of how the powder ignites.

The metal alloy of the primer cups and anvils does change from company to company. Although it may be just tiny differences. Most military primers are made of a slightly harder metal and also slightly thicker. Especially for ammo made to be used in select fire or fully automatic weapons. This is mostly to prevent "slam fires".

For the lowest numbers I prefer the "NO Heavy Metals" primer in copper cups from Russia. I think Wolf has bought the marketing rights in the USA.

Second is standard Winchester primers.

Federal is third in my book.

CCI makes good primers for pistols. But according to my tests they are farther down the list for rifle primers.

I've had a few bad experiences with Remington primers in the past. I don't use their primers. Period.

 

[pdogdown]

Re: Differences in primers?

There was a post here or on accurate shooter that showed pictures breaking down the flash for various primers and in the same thread it broke down cup hardness also (important for semi-autos in preventing slam fires primarily).

I have found the same consistencies from CCI 41s, BR4s, BR2s,200s, and 400s when I have used them. I have found Winchester LR to be consistent as well and a little hotter burning than other LR Primers. Federal Small Rifle Match and Small Rifle are both consistent in my experience, but are not as hot as CCIs and the cups are definitely softer. I wouldn't use them in ARs. They start showing pressure signs sooner than the BR4s which is good in terms of letting me know when I get to hot. I find they work better than the BR4s in .223 with 55s and 69s while BR4s have made a big difference in the 70 VLDs and 75 A-max's and BTHPs, and the Nosler 77 CCs.

Couldn't say anything about the Wolf's or the Remington's as I don't see any around OKC area. Seems like with the CCIs and Fed's we can usually get one or the other but not both in the last year or so.

Long and short of it is, there are differences in my opinion and they can work against you or for you. Make sure you make notes on what you are using and stick to what works for you. As far as CCI, Fed, and Winchester are concerned. I have found them to be consistent. Especially the small rifle's which I shoot a ton.

 

[ReaperDriver]

Re: Differences in primers?

I've wondered the same thing about whether primers really do affect accuracy. Next month when things settle down for me, I'm going to do the "great primer test". I'm going to shoot Wolf LR, Fed 210, Fed GMM, CCI, BR-2 with the exact same load in the same rifle over a chrono and see what kinds of differences I'm seeing. If I can get my hands on some Rem and Win primers, I may test them too.

Anyone have any tips on how to best structure this test? I was going to shoot 10 rounds of each. Is that enough for a conclusive test?

 

[Iggy]

Re: Differences in primers?

If I get some Win Primers I'll send you some win and rem primers.

I also found this:

http://accurateshooter.wordpress.com/200...olf-in-308-win/

 

[Victor N TN]

Re: Differences in primers?

I was using a benchrest rifle with a new 45X match Leupold that was a known shooter.

I still have one of the tests on disk in MS Word if you want me to email it to you. Just let me know.

 

[Iggy]

Re: Differences in primers?

please! I'll PM you my email address.

 

[Victor N TN]

Re: Differences in primers?

PM and emails sent.

 

[Suasponte]

Re: Differences in primers?

Hirtenberger had some pretty freaking good primers too! There was a batch for 50BMG that was killer and lots of the guys in the FCSA would kill for them. I purchased several thousand when Pats Reloading had them and they buy far out perform the CCI #35's. I also got a hold of some LG rifles and they are killer too.

Lots of Wolf primers in my reloading room! I have nothing bad to say about them and they perform just as well as the Winchesters do.

I typically load the Winchesters in my brass and when they start to get a little loose I switch over to the Wolfs. They are slightly bigger diameter than the Winchesters, Federal, and CCI's.

Terry

 

[pdogdown]

Re: Differences in primers?

Primer flash comparison

Here is the link I was talking about. Granted, the timing of a photo could play a difference but it comes from a pretty reputable source. Interesting debate if nothing else

 

[pdogdown]

Re: Differences in primers?

Benchrest dot com thread on primers
Another interesting thread that makes some references.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Differences in primers?

Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes. and;
Yes.

When we get into preferences, everyone has one, and they differ widely.

I don't make decisions about primers based on anything but the particular load I'm developing.

In nearly twenty years of handloading, I have yet to find a general statement about primers that can be counted to remain consistent; except that most of them go 'bang'. Usually.

When I can, I use CCI BR primers or Fed GM primers; and when I can't, I use Win primers and CCI 200 and 400 primers. Tried Russians; they worked well, but the others are (usually) easier to find.

Greg

 

[Shrike]

Re: Differences in primers?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OK260AI</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Primer flash comparison

Here is the link I was talking about. Granted, the timing of a photo could play a difference but it comes from a pretty reputable source. Interesting debate if nothing else </div></div>

Thank you very much for that! I've been searching for my go-to GM210M primers and they're always out. Because the Winchester LR primers are slightly more available (and lower cost), I think I'll give them a whirl. Excluding timing of the photo, the flash looks very similar to the Fed 210M's.

-Erik

 

[samnev]

Re: Differences in primers?

I use CCI #41 and #34 mil spec primers in my 5.56 and 7.62x51 ammo respectively because they are mil spec and made specifically for semi auto's to prevent slam fires. In bolt rifles I find Winchester works best for me.

 

[DaveV]

Re: Differences in primers?

Given how weird things have been, I'm just glad to see ANY primers on the shelves

Brands and performance have taken a back seat to availability.