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Night Vision Different models of NVGs

K

kmontang

Sergeant of the Hide
Full Member
Minuteman
Jan 30, 2014
183
26
Dallas, TX
Im starting to shop around for a set of NVG, and Im having a hell of a time sorting through the info. I read the primer from TNVS that is stickied above, but when I looked at their site, its like I'm reading Mandarin. So a few parameters for what I'm looking to do, then a few questions-

1. Definitely want a 2-tube unit/ goggles, not a monocular. I have friends with each, and after fiddling with them a little, I feel like its worth the extra money
2. 99.99% of use will be hog hunting in North Texas, so not extreme use, but not a safe queen setup either
3. I have an IR laser that can be used in conjunction if it makes a difference

Questions-
1. What are the differences between these units? specifically PVS-23 vs PVS-15 and SLG vs YG
tnvc.com

L3Harris AN/PVS-15 (M953) – Tactical Night Vision Company

M953 Night Vision Binocular Recommended Accessories: Wilcox L4 G24 Mount - BUY HERE Norotos INVG Hyper Mount - BUY HERE
tnvc.com tnvc.com
tnvc.com

Harris F5050SLG (PVS-23 Type)

Commercial Variant of AN/PVS-23 Night Vision Binocular
tnvc.com tnvc.com
tnvc.com

Harris AN/PVS-23 (F5050YG)

MILSPEC F5050YG Night Vision Binocular
tnvc.com tnvc.com

2. Will those differences make any difference in detection/ Identification ranges, or durability?
3. Could I swap one to a rifle mount if I felt like it?
4. TNVC seems to come highly recommended here on the Hide, so I'm planning to order from them, is there another model they carry I should be looking at?

Im pretty much starting from scratch when it comes to knowledge on night vision, so help is appreciated!
 
Look at the DTNVG (and soon to be released DTNVS), RNVG, and Mod3. In fact I would choose any of those 3 over the ones you have listed. PVS 15s are old and kind of expensive for what they are (very heavy). The DTNVG is lighter and (subjective I know) a nicer unit. RNVGs are very light and stout if you don’t need articulation. Also not articulating, but the mod3 can be split into 2 monoculars if you have a buddy, or if you want to weapon mount. You won’t be weapon mounting any of the others. I don’t know a whole lot about the harris units, they just don’t seem to be too popular.
 
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I would be tempted to use two PVS-14s in the MOD mount mentioned above. Along with the advantages the other poster mentioned, if one of the tubes had an issue or even just had a battery die, you would still be night vision capable. You would also be able to add a thermal monocular in the future, should they ever become affordable to the common man.
 
Call or PM Vic at TNVC. He is the member that wrote the sticky you mentioned. He answered all my questions and guided my purchase. Customer service at that company is unbeatable.
 
DTNVG all the way. They now have a full warranty and are not materially heavier than the RNVG. The ability to use as a bino off helmet and to fold against helmet outweigh the time to adjust them to correct IP distance. In a life critical situation I could see the advantages of setting and forgetting IP distance and snapping them up/down. But in the real world, being able to hand my WP DTNVGs to my daughter to stargaze is worth it.
 
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Ok, one step back since a couple of you mentioned it. what is DTNVG vs RNVG? their both dual tube, is the "R" just ruggedized?
 
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The DTNVG is a dual tube housing made by ACT in Black.

The RNVG is a dual tube housing made by AB night vision. Yes the R stands for Ruggedized.

Once you decide what housing you want you’ll decide what tubes you want. The 3 big players are L3, ITT/Harris, and Photonis. Explaining all the different tube options is a pretty long adventure. I would suggest giving TNVC a call, looking through all the threads here and at arfcom, and watching the youtubers to get pretty educated

Then time to make a decision.
 
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I’ve played around with PNVG ANVIS 10, RNVG, DTNVG and I own ANVIS 9’s. They all have pros and cons.

I am not a professional NV user: this is just based off my personal opinion.

The setup I would least choose is RNVG simply because you don’t get articulation and they are heavy. Even on a ballistic helmet, you need a good set of counterweights to offset them. Plus side is you don’t have to be so gentle with them and it has a built in IR illum for close range illum.

The DTNVG are definitely cool for articulation but even wearing my NVG inside my truck folded up, I don’t have any issues with roof clearance. I would like articulation simply for convenience. Now if you need to fold one goggle away and look through a thermal...that has some merit.

The PNVG is awesome for field of view but also comes with a hefty price tag. Also, not many people deal with PNVG units so you’ll pay a premium for any components and work as well.

Lastly, I have ANVIS 9. I love them. Super light, battery pack is enough weight to balance my non ballistic helmet and they suit my needs. If pilots use them, I’d say it’s probably good for me. Con: less rugged than the others but you dont have to treat them like a wine glass either.

Lastly, do yourself a favor and get white instead of green. I’m glad I did.
 
aslrookie said:
If pilots use them, I’d say it’s probably good for me. Con: less rugged than the others but you dont have to treat them like a wine glass either.
Click to expand...

I've flown with 9s and they're great but I've seen quite a few broken..

If I'm the one spending money on the set, I'd take the RNVG over any one of those every single time. With the money required to get into duals they better be bombproof in my opinion.
 
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haha, I started out with a pair of 14s six years ago for my head mounted NODs. But a year later got my first head mounted thermal. Since then I've continued the slide towards dual band head mounted NODs.
Now I have three 14s (shown in the first row) and a breach (in the center) and a skeet (to the rear) and a patrol m300w (not shown). All three thermals have usb batteries which extend the run time beyond one night and add to the counter weight on back.

49759549057_01835e4a66_k.jpg


These days, the only time I would consider going with two 14s is if I was driving a vehicle with fixed front glass (which thermal can't see thru) and a load of passengers. So for enhanced safety in that scenario I would go with the dual 14s. But otherwise to detect critters that are alive ... I want a thermal on my other eye.

I might mention that a great "minimalist" setup is one 14 and a coti on a night cap. Very light ... and still gives a dual band capability. Not as great at long (or even intermediate) PID but fine at detection out to 600yds on most nights. And leaves one eye ou natural which tremendously increases FOV and actually aids navigation in the woods if there is any moon.

So I guess I don't really fit into this convo, because I don't do NVG ... I like the flexibility that 14s gives me to mix and match single tube units and hand some out to team members who forgot theirs and such. I have the ability to combine if needed, but for me, don't find that advantageous in most conditions.

Carry on !!!
:D
 
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@kmontang I am a hog hunter and I will have to strongly agree with what Wig just stated above. Albeit I might throw in a couple of extra thoughts.

Any dedicated Bino system to me is really a system that is limited and finite in what it can do.

IMHO the best all around system in all categories regarding (cost, ruggedness, ultimate dependability, ability to service and fix anything pretty easily) is a Bridge System that allows either 2 PVS 14's or 1 PVS 14 and a head mounted thermal beside it.

The only slight negative of a Bridged System is a slightly heavier system over (some) of the dedicated Bino systems available today. The advantages of the Bridged System far outweighs it being slightly heavier than (some) dedicated Bino Systems.

Regarding Bridges. The Mod Armory line of bridges are the most cost effective, light weight, and dependable bridges by far of any of the other offerings out there. They are amazingly well featured, simple and rock solid. Another very important feature of the Mod Armory Bridges is they allow you to adjust the tension on your swing arms that no other dedicated Bino System allows you to adjust.

I run dual PVS 14's with a COTI on Mod Armory Bridges and also run a single PVS 14 and Breach on the Mod Armory Bridges. These systems are a hunters dream come true. Albeit maybe a Skeet instead of a Breach might be a better dream come true. :LOL:

Now here is another extra bonus point. If wearing duel NV tubes with a COTI on the system, it is really nice to have independent gain adjustment on each tube. Point being, it is very advantageous to be able to turn the gain down on the tube that does not have the COTI attached to it. This allows you to really increase the visual perceived fusion between NV & Thermal and also will enable the other eye to maintain its natural night vision all while still enjoying the benefits of depth perception from running dual NV tubes over both eyes. Nearly all dedicated NV Bino systems do not allow you to adjust each tube individually if at all. Most (not all) do not even allow you to have any manual adjustment of the gain at all.

Another huge benefit of a set of bridged 14's is that if one tube goes down, you don't loose a whole system like you typically do with a dedicated Bino System. Additionally, if you do have a tube that sh^ts the bed for whatever reason, you can quickly roll in another PVS 14 and be back to having a dual NV system vs having to send off for timely and costly repairs to a dedicated Bino System.

So that' s my 2 cents for what it is worth.
 
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I can't find the link, but if I am remembering correctly, Lowlight did a short video review of the MOD Armory bridge that was very complimentary.
 
WhereNow&How said:
@kmontang I am a hog hunter and I will have to strongly agree with what Wig just stated above. Albeit I might throw in a couple of extra thoughts.

Any dedicated Bino system to me is really a system that is limited and finite in what it can do.

IMHO the best all around system in all categories regarding (cost, ruggedness, ultimate dependability, ability to service and fix anything pretty easily) is a Bridge System that allows either 2 PVS 14's or 1 PVS 14 and a head mounted thermal beside it.

The only slight negative of a Bridged System is a slightly heavier system over (some) of the dedicated Bino systems available today. The advantages of the Bridged System far outweighs it being slightly heavier than (some) dedicated Bino Systems.

Regarding Bridges. The Mod Armory line of bridges are the most cost effective, light weight, and dependable bridges by far of any of the other offerings out there. They are amazingly well featured, simple and rock solid. Another very important feature of the Mod Armory Bridges is they allow you to adjust the tension on your swing arms that no other dedicated Bino System allows you to adjust.

I run dual PVS 14's with a COTI on Mod Armory Bridges and also run a single PVS 14 and Breach on the Mod Armory Bridges. These systems are a hunters dream come true. Albeit maybe a Skeet instead of a Breach might be a better dream come true. :LOL:

Now here is another extra bonus point. If wearing duel NV tubes with a COTI on the system, it is really nice to have independent gain adjustment on each tube. Point being, it is very advantageous to be able to turn the gain down on the tube that does not have the COTI attached to it. This allows you to really increase the visual perceived fusion between NV & Thermal and also will enable the other eye to maintain its natural night vision all while still enjoying the benefits of depth perception from running dual NV tubes over both eyes. Nearly all dedicated NV Bino systems do not allow you to adjust each tube individually if at all. Most (not all) do not even allow you to have any manual adjustment of the gain at all.

Another huge benefit of a set of bridged 14's is that if one tube goes down, you don't loose a whole system like you typically do with a dedicated Bino System. Additionally, if you do have a tube that sh^ts the bed for whatever reason, you can quickly roll in another PVS 14 and be back to having a dual NV system vs having to send off for timely and costly repairs to a dedicated Bino System.

So that' s my 2 cents for what it is worth.
Click to expand...


This was incredibly helpful, thank you! Ill check out that Mod armory system. I hadn't considered buying two 14's really, but what your saying about the independence of each one doing so makes a lot of sense! this would also be good because it sounds like from what your saying, I could buy the mount and one monocular to start with, then my the other monocular down the road if I wanted
 
Here is Lowlights vid plus a couple of others. At the end of the day after reviewing these vids, IMHO only the MOD ARMORY (Intergrated Components) Bridges are what you want. Either the Quick Detach or the Light Weight Version. I have both and they are both excelllent. I tend to favor the Light Weight Version.





 
kmontang said:
This was incredibly helpful, thank you! Ill check out that Mod armory system. I hadn't considered buying two 14's really, but what your saying about the independence of each one doing so makes a lot of sense! this would also be good because it sounds like from what your saying, I could buy the mount and one monocular to start with, then my the other monocular down the road if I wanted
Click to expand...
Yes, even if I was only going to run a single PVS 14, I would get the Mod Armory Lite Weight Bridge Mount and use it for the mount. You can quickly and simply take off the other arm if you want to by taking the shoulder bolt and nut off and remove the arm.

Also, the best mount to use is a Norotos Rhino 2 with a Norotos PVS 15/18 Dovetail Socket put on it. This is a much better mount setup than the revered Wilcox G24 (which I also have). The Norotos Rhino 2 with Dovetail socket lets you stow your NODS much closer to your helmet. It is also a much easier mount to adjust, has wider adjustment features, has a force to overcome flip up instead of the (pushbutton) etc etc etc.

Plus you can buy a Rhino 2 usually of Ebay for around $75 and get the Nortotos PVS 15/18 socket for around $60 for a grand total of around say $135 vs the $400 to $500ish price of a Wilcox G24.

 
That is exactly the route I've taken. Ryno2 with dovetail adaption. MOD Armory bridge and just one PVS-14 to start. The system is tight with no wobble and very cost effective. Lowlights video was what sold me. The system has me up and running now, with another tube in the future and the ability to dream of affordable thermal.
 
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Downtown said:
That is exactly the route I've taken. Ryno2 with dovetail adaption. MOD Armory bridge and just one PVS-14 to start. The system is tight with no wobble and very cost effective. Lowlights video was what sold me. The system has me up and running now, with another tube in the future and the ability to dream of affordable thermal.
Click to expand...
Yep, you running top of the line IMHO.

While many tout how great the Wilcox G24 is I have found it lacking in a lot of areas. Biggest issue with it was to take out all of the "wiggle" "wobble" "chatter" whatever one wants to call it on the Fore & Aft (in & out) adjustment you have to take a Allen Key and tighten down on those little Allen Screws. Well then if you are out at night and want to adjust your NODS in or out, it is basically impossible in the field. With the Norotos Rhino 2 that is accomplished easily via the adjustment knob and it locks down solid with Zero wobble.

The G24 rail arms are also flimsy and easily broken compared to the Rhino 2 rail system.

Yes Sir, you definitely on the path to true success. (y)
 
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Just as a note since running a 14 with thermal was mentioned... the integrated components/mod armory bridge doesn’t run the the 14 and thermal. Or at least my older ice version didn’t and it also didn’t have a lot of adjustment. It seemed like OP was wanting dual tubes so in that case the mod armory or mod armory lightweight would be a good choice. However, if you have a patrol or flir breach or think you may go that route since most of use is hunting then I’d suggest a mount like the Knight Vision Universal Bridge. It’s a stellar mount with lots of adjustments and runs 2 14s or 14/thermal etc just fine. Just a thought in case you are like me and had to buy a lot of multi hundred dollar mounts ?. Still have the mod armory though and prob just keep them since like others said, it’s a very good mount. Just wasn’t cut out for 14 and a thermal.
 
@StihlTech your statement: "Just as a note since running a 14 with thermal was mentioned... the integrated components/mod armory bridge doesn’t run the the 14 and thermal."

Just does not reconcile at all with my experience. A PVS 14 and Flir Breach works perfectly with all three versions of the Mod Armory Bridge systems that they produce. They also work perfectly for a dual PVS 14 setup.

Now regarding the Knight Vision Universal Bridge. It is over engineered, has many adjustment points that get sloppy after use, is way to heavy and way to overpriced. But if someone thinks a high price for a bridge equates to the best bridge, by all means buy it.

1586728045102.png

Left to Right: Mod Armory Quick Detach Bridge, Mod Armory Light Weight Bridge (Original Version), Mod Armory Light Weight Version (Current Production)
 
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Well, I’m deff no expert and likely the least experienced of anyone on this post lol. I was running a patrol and never tried a breach on the ice. Perhaps the patrol doesn’t work with the mod armory whereas the flir does? And the knight mount is my newest one and doesn’t have slop (yet) so I shouldn’t speak to any slop or lack thereof with any certainty. Lastly; knight has a good mil discount so the price point was not as much an issue. So I suppose I should have said that as an option the knight mount may possibly be the right mount for you lol ??. All in all, I’m quite happy with it. Like I said, nothing wrong with the ice, kept it because well why not as it’s a good mount and even with a single 14 I like it. But I’m pleased with what the knight offered where I thought my integrated components was lacking.
 
StihlTech said:
All in all, I’m quite happy with it. Like I said, nothing wrong with the ice, kept it because well why not as it’s a good mount and even with a single 14 I like it.
Click to expand...

Yes, actually even for people running a single PVS 14, the Mod Armory Light Weight is an excellent choice over the Wilcox or Norotos arms.

So a single Wilcox PVS 14 Arm runs about $220ish. So the Mod Armory Light Weight at about $130 bucks more ensures you a one time purchase for a mount that can run a single PVS 14 perfectly or allow you to expand and run another 14 or thermal down the road for a dual setup. Kind of a one stop can do it all purchase if you ask me. The ability to adjust tension or remove the shoulder bolts is a critical design feature that makes this Bridge so versatile.

The Mod Armory mounts are simply very good performers that can serve a lot of roles at a fairly low price point compared to other offerings.
 
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... I was running a patrol and never tried a breach on the ice. Perhaps the patrol doesn’t work with the mod armory whereas the flir does? ...
Click to expand...

Patrol works fine with the MA IC Bridge. There is an adjustment, but you might need help finding it. I'll post a pic in a bit.
 
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49768582941_f40d0aa945_k.jpg


Ok, here ^^ is a bottom view of the MA IC Bridge. In the center of the bridge, you will note two holes, one of which has a hex screw in it. This combination provides a fore-aft adjustment of the main body of the bridge with respect to the dove-tail mount interface on the top of the bridge.
The bridge is currently in the "forward" position. It came in the "rear" position. In the "rear" position, the patrol still works, but the rear end of the patrol eye piece is really close to my eye socket. So by using this adjustment and switching the bridge to the forward position, that gave the patrol significantly more clearance and hence made it all work together better. I like the farther forward position for all my head mounted nods and leave both of my bridges in that position now.
 
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After watching Lowlights video, I’m sold on the Mod Armory mount. That’ll be nice because I can pull the trigger on one -14 and the mount a couple months faster than if I had to buy it all at once.

mid I buy the monocular from TNVC and the Mod armory mount, how difficult is it to assemble it? Something I can for sure do myself?
 
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When you say "the Mod Armory mount" ... do you mean the Norotos lo sto MOUNT

www.modarmory.com

Norotos Lo-Sto Helmet Mount, Push Button (1960010) - MOD Armory

Norotos, Lo-Sto Helmet Mount, Push Button Mount is the most lightweight and compact helmet mount solution available
www.modarmory.com www.modarmory.com

Or do you mean the IC BRIDGE ??

www.modarmory.com

Night Vision Helmet Mount IC D-14 Dual PVS-14 - MOD Armory

Integrated Components Night Vision Helmet Mount D-14 Dual PVS-14 Mounting System™ offers an adaptable system that can be configured as single or dual.
www.modarmory.com www.modarmory.com

==
Just trying to be careful !!! And technically the MOUNT is a different critter from the BRIDGE (and you need both).

==

Connecting a PVS-14 to the IC Bridge is definitely something you can do yourself ... and if you have any questions we here can help.

When you buy the bridge, make sure you select the option "Dove tail with two PVS-14 mounting arms"
That way, you can mount the 14 on either side (the mounting arms are slightly different for left side, right side) ... and also have both arms, for when you get your second 14.
 
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Also, Google up the simple procedure to add the dovetail adapter to the Rhyno2 mount. That seems to be the most cost effective and wobble free method of connecting the bridge to a helmet/ cap.
 
Just to be clear. The Rhino2 mount is available Army surplus, often no more than $100 and has the bayonet fixture. It's a lot cheaper than the Lo-Sto mount shown above. The Rhino2 shown in that video being converted to dovetail.
 
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Downtown said:
Just to be clear. The Rhino2 mount is available Army surplus, often no more than $100 and has the bayonet fixture. It's a lot cheaper than the Lo-Sto mount shown above. The Rhino2 shown in that video being converted to dovetail.
Click to expand...
Yeah, the Rhino 2 with Dovetail Socket is the "Cats Meow" IMHO. Solid as a rock mount.

It will let my Mod Armory Bridged PVS 14's or 14 and Breach sit much flatter on my helmet and stow much cleaner than any other mount out there. It is also one of the strongest and easily adjusted mounts I have seen. Has longer fore and aft (in and out) adjustment than most of them as well.

My Wilcox G24 hasn't seen use in years. I think I just hang on to it for when some "Gucci" guys come around and try to "skewl" me. Yeah I was born at night, but it wasn't last night. :LOL:
 
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... it will let my Mod Armory Bridge ... sit much flatter on my helmet and stow much cleaner than any other mount out there ...
Click to expand...

haha I think I could use exactly the same words to description the low sto !! Plus I can flipup the lo sto with one hand and zero noise ...
 
@wigwamitus I have never run the low sto. From what I have seen it and the Rhino 2 appear pretty close in function but I think it is likely easier to find the Rhino 2 at a cheaper price so that is the only reason I really haven't tried one.
 
Here is a pretty good vid that compares the Rhino 2 and the Low Stow.

As this guy discusses in his video the Rhino 2 with Dovetail does not have the upper portion milled out. I personally like that because it 100% protects from anyone accidentally hitting the release button and disconnecting a NOD. And don't worry about needing long fingernails etc to reach in to activate the disconnect. All you have to do is run your NOD out to the end of the rail and the disconnect button is easily accessible. So I really like the fact that the release button is fully covered and cannot be accidentally depressed.

That really helps if you have new people out with NODS as you don't have to worry about that happening to them.

So it is a good mount with "Training Wheels" on it as well. :)

 
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WhereNow&How said:
Yeah, the Rhino 2 with Dovetail Socket is the "Cats Meow" IMHO. Solid as a rock mount.

It will let my Mod Armory Bridged PVS 14's or 14 and Breach sit much flatter on my helmet and stow much cleaner than any other mount out there. It is also one of the strongest and easily adjusted mounts I have seen. Has longer fore and aft (in and out) adjustment than most of them as well.

My Wilcox G24 hasn't seen use in years. I think I just hang on to it for when some "Gucci" guys come around and try to "skewl" me. Yeah I was born at night, but it wasn't last night. :LOL:
Click to expand...

By chance can you show a picture of how well it stows with the Rhino 2 setup. I currently have a Rhino 2 with PVS18 Dovetail adaptor. Using DDA to mount a single PVS14. Was looking into a mount which would lay flat but also maybe articulate. Also heard the DDA doesn't lock up well with the Wilcox G24 so trying to save some money with current setup. Obviously I could go with the INVG but maybe looking into a breach soon so the D14 maybe the ticket. Was hoping for photos because d14 with rhino on a helmet profile is non existent online.
 
@nighttrain0305 I just posted these on the Collimation Thread, but here they are again.

PVS 14s laying flat on your helmet with Mod Armory Lite Weight Bridge and Norotos Rhino 2 with Dovetail Socket.

1587878519862.png


1587878547715.png






Dual PVS 14's with a Dual Set of COTI's on the Mod Armory LIght Weight Bridge with Rhino 2 and Norotos PVS 15/18 Socket. Please not these will not sit quite as low due to the COTI's being on the 14's but still much better than anything I know of currently out there.


1587878580650.png


1587878617617.png
 
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Lunabear said:
So for a lack of better terms it gives you thermal signatures through nv tubes?
Click to expand...
The COTI is kind of an expensive short range limited thermal that doesn't give very good PID. However, it is great for letting you know 24/7 as you move around at night that something is out there for about 300 yards such that you can put something better on it for positive ID.

They were supposedly developed for door kickers and such over in the sandbox with the primary mission in the towns.


I add a lanyard and mini SF Carabiners to them so you can clip them into the 3/4" split ring I put on my PVS 14's anchor points which are then clipped into Wilcox Lanyards. You sure don't want one of those suckers to slip off out there at night and loose one.
1587948528546.png
 
Wow, enormous amount of experience and knowledge on this thread.

Thanks to all
 
TACC said:
Wow, enormous amount of experience and knowledge on this thread.

Thanks to all
Click to expand...
Yes, probably some of the smartest NV & Thermal users here that have a ton of knowledge. I read & learned here for many years and learned in the field before I joined. My dad always said be quite and listen, that's how you learn. Then once you start learning, then start talking. LOL

The ARFcom NV Forum is ok as well, but the epic pissing battles over there are the most hilarious popcorn eating events.
In this corner we have XXX and over in this corner we have XXX, now lets get ready to rumble. LOL

No matter what "niche" of NV or Thermal, short or long range, there are some pretty excellent experts here who possess a wealth of knowledge. IMHO the more settled experts are definitely over here on the Hide.
 
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