Gunsmithing do AI stocks need to be bedded?
- Thread starter villhelm
- Start date
Re: do AI stocks need to be bedded?
No.
Torque the action screws and roll.
No.
Torque the action screws and roll.
Re: do AI stocks need to be bedded?
If I remember correctly, GAP did bed the recoil lug, but not the receiver, when I had my rifle built with the AICS. I have since switched stocks though.
They are designed as plug-n-play system. Drop it in, torque it down, and shoot.
If I remember correctly, GAP did bed the recoil lug, but not the receiver, when I had my rifle built with the AICS. I have since switched stocks though.
They are designed as plug-n-play system. Drop it in, torque it down, and shoot.
Re: do AI stocks need to be bedded?
I wont build on an AI Chassis without bedding it.
I wont build on an AI Chassis without bedding it.
Re: do AI stocks need to be bedded?
Remington 700's aren’t perfectly round. Once torqued in to any type of V-Block or Chassis system stress is present. Loosen the front guard screw and the barrel can rise as much as .100"+ in some cases.
I've heard of extremely accurate rifles that were placed into these stocks and the accuracy went away. There's a reason Surgeon, GAP and others bed the Chassis.
In a true Military/Combat environment where chassis systems may have to be switched around for what ever reason, yea, it works great and fits the bill. Repeatable torque is a must though. I build target grade precision rifles so, I tend to bed everything, even the AICS.
Remington 700's aren’t perfectly round. Once torqued in to any type of V-Block or Chassis system stress is present. Loosen the front guard screw and the barrel can rise as much as .100"+ in some cases.
I've heard of extremely accurate rifles that were placed into these stocks and the accuracy went away. There's a reason Surgeon, GAP and others bed the Chassis.
In a true Military/Combat environment where chassis systems may have to be switched around for what ever reason, yea, it works great and fits the bill. Repeatable torque is a must though. I build target grade precision rifles so, I tend to bed everything, even the AICS.
Re: do AI stocks need to be bedded?
How about flat bottom receivers specifically the badger action ?
Thanks for taking the time to answer these questions.
How about flat bottom receivers specifically the badger action ?
Thanks for taking the time to answer these questions.
Re: do AI stocks need to be bedded?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Easy_E</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How about flat bottom receivers specifically the badger action ?
Thanks for taking the time to answer these questions. </div></div>
When the AICS is re-cut via CNC for the Badger it changes everything. Flat to Flat has no stress if done correctly.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Easy_E</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How about flat bottom receivers specifically the badger action ?
Thanks for taking the time to answer these questions. </div></div>
When the AICS is re-cut via CNC for the Badger it changes everything. Flat to Flat has no stress if done correctly.
Re: do AI stocks need to be bedded?
Alright, Ill bite.
Heres my .02 take it for what its worth. I'm rollin a full GAP switchbarrel build, Surgeon action, Bartlein barrels, and had it ORIGINALLY bedded in a Mc Bros A5.
Wasn't to fond of the A5, and USMC rings put my PH 5-25 in the right spot, so I tried my BA in a buddies AICS.
Love at first sight. I'm a firm believer in bedding, but since this was not mine to bed, I just dropped my BA in and went to town.
It took me a couple matches to adjust to the stock, but I soon realized this thing shot just as good as it did in my bedded A5, so I traded my A5 to a buddy I shoot with for an AICS. I then proceeded to order a can of Devcon, so another buddy of mine could bed it.
I shoot our monthly club matches, and as time would have it, the next match was to soon IMO to bed this thing so I saddled up my BA and dropped it into my new AICS, and went to the range to get zeroed.
Guess what? Shot just as good. I have done tons of research on this very subject BECAUSE I was worried about potential issues of binding, and found equal number of opinions on either side. I know for a fact that GAP, and KMW bed their builds in AICS.
<span style="font-weight: bold">FOR ME.... My rifle is shooting great, and I'm of the philosophy "if it aint broke, dont fix it." So I'm leavin it be.</span>
<span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">Not to say that if I were to have another built from GAP that I wouldnt have them bed it, because I would.</span></span>
They build rifles, I just shoot em. just my .02
Alright, Ill bite.
Heres my .02 take it for what its worth. I'm rollin a full GAP switchbarrel build, Surgeon action, Bartlein barrels, and had it ORIGINALLY bedded in a Mc Bros A5.
Wasn't to fond of the A5, and USMC rings put my PH 5-25 in the right spot, so I tried my BA in a buddies AICS.
Love at first sight. I'm a firm believer in bedding, but since this was not mine to bed, I just dropped my BA in and went to town.
It took me a couple matches to adjust to the stock, but I soon realized this thing shot just as good as it did in my bedded A5, so I traded my A5 to a buddy I shoot with for an AICS. I then proceeded to order a can of Devcon, so another buddy of mine could bed it.
I shoot our monthly club matches, and as time would have it, the next match was to soon IMO to bed this thing so I saddled up my BA and dropped it into my new AICS, and went to the range to get zeroed.
Guess what? Shot just as good. I have done tons of research on this very subject BECAUSE I was worried about potential issues of binding, and found equal number of opinions on either side. I know for a fact that GAP, and KMW bed their builds in AICS.
<span style="font-weight: bold">FOR ME.... My rifle is shooting great, and I'm of the philosophy "if it aint broke, dont fix it." So I'm leavin it be.</span>
<span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">Not to say that if I were to have another built from GAP that I wouldnt have them bed it, because I would.</span></span>
They build rifles, I just shoot em. just my .02
Re: do AI stocks need to be bedded?
^ the guy before me has been shooting his unbedded aics pretty damn good lately. considering he is keeping up with and beating the hot-rods in our long range match using his 308, the unbedded aics is not a problem.
my aics is not bedded either and that certainly hasn't been keeping me from some top finishes lately.
in my opinion, run it unbedded the way it was intended. if you are having problems that sound like a bedding issue, then bed it.
^ the guy before me has been shooting his unbedded aics pretty damn good lately. considering he is keeping up with and beating the hot-rods in our long range match using his 308, the unbedded aics is not a problem.
my aics is not bedded either and that certainly hasn't been keeping me from some top finishes lately.
in my opinion, run it unbedded the way it was intended. if you are having problems that sound like a bedding issue, then bed it.
Re: do AI stocks need to be bedded?
I'm with William. I just finished a Surgeon RSR build with an AICS. It needed to get bedded right along with every "Drop In" stock that comes in the shop.
Dial indicators reveal that there is stress in the action and stock on 85% of these setups. Isnt the name of the game to eliminate stress, minimize the variables and do everything you can to make sure the rifle will perform the best in all situations and conditions?
That is why I bed stress free Chassis every time.
Mark
I'm with William. I just finished a Surgeon RSR build with an AICS. It needed to get bedded right along with every "Drop In" stock that comes in the shop.
Dial indicators reveal that there is stress in the action and stock on 85% of these setups. Isnt the name of the game to eliminate stress, minimize the variables and do everything you can to make sure the rifle will perform the best in all situations and conditions?
That is why I bed stress free Chassis every time.
Mark
Re: do AI stocks need to be bedded?
Had several AICS-stocked rifles--from 22LR to 300WM. All needed bedding.
Had several AICS-stocked rifles--from 22LR to 300WM. All needed bedding.
Re: do AI stocks need to be bedded?
My gunsmith also believes that all stocks, even modular chassis systems, need bedding.
My gunsmith also believes that all stocks, even modular chassis systems, need bedding.
Re: do AI stocks need to be bedded?
Wnroscoe is bedding my 591 in a AICS.
Wnroscoe is bedding my 591 in a AICS.
Re: do AI stocks need to be bedded?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CubeWarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Had several AICS-stocked rifles--from 22LR to 300WM. All needed bedding. </div></div>
obviously you shot them before you bedded them to come to the conclusion that they "needed" it. what was the accuracy improvement on them after bedding?
when someone says that it is NEEDED, i would like to see some hard numbers on target on the improvement made by bedding, not what a dial indicator said on a bench.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CubeWarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Had several AICS-stocked rifles--from 22LR to 300WM. All needed bedding. </div></div>
obviously you shot them before you bedded them to come to the conclusion that they "needed" it. what was the accuracy improvement on them after bedding?
when someone says that it is NEEDED, i would like to see some hard numbers on target on the improvement made by bedding, not what a dial indicator said on a bench.
Re: do AI stocks need to be bedded?
Learned the hard way on three of four rifles. Recommend Devcon over softer glass based products.
On paper:
Standard REM 700 308-- 1.1 inch groups at 100Y with an occassional uncalled flier that went wide to .75 inch groups with AB175 factory ammo.
REM 40X 22LR-- every 10-15 rounds, it would throw an uncalled flier (usually laterally, but sometimes vertically out 1.5-2 inches away from POA), bedding turned a 2.0 MOA gun at 100Y a .9 MOA gun at 100Y with Wolf 22MT (which is pretty good for a 22LR)
Standard REM 700 300WM-- completely inconsistent, sometimes it would group tight, other times it would throw fliers. After bedding, no uncalled fliers and groupings at .7. When I got a custom 300WM built, I didn't wait to see the report, I got it built with a DEVCON bedded action and the AICS.
If you have had luck with your unbedded AICS, then good for you. It has not been my experience. I'm not faulting AICS--I love the stock system. I do find it hard to believe that a mass-produced action is going to fit perfectly within a mass produced stock.
So, I learned the hard way on 3 previous guns before doing it the right way on the 4th.
Learned the hard way on three of four rifles. Recommend Devcon over softer glass based products.
On paper:
Standard REM 700 308-- 1.1 inch groups at 100Y with an occassional uncalled flier that went wide to .75 inch groups with AB175 factory ammo.
REM 40X 22LR-- every 10-15 rounds, it would throw an uncalled flier (usually laterally, but sometimes vertically out 1.5-2 inches away from POA), bedding turned a 2.0 MOA gun at 100Y a .9 MOA gun at 100Y with Wolf 22MT (which is pretty good for a 22LR)
Standard REM 700 300WM-- completely inconsistent, sometimes it would group tight, other times it would throw fliers. After bedding, no uncalled fliers and groupings at .7. When I got a custom 300WM built, I didn't wait to see the report, I got it built with a DEVCON bedded action and the AICS.
If you have had luck with your unbedded AICS, then good for you. It has not been my experience. I'm not faulting AICS--I love the stock system. I do find it hard to believe that a mass-produced action is going to fit perfectly within a mass produced stock.
So, I learned the hard way on 3 previous guns before doing it the right way on the 4th.
Re: do AI stocks need to be bedded?
that is funny how you got three bad ones and i haven't seen one that wouldn't shoot out of the box. i have worked with and know many people using them unbedded and have not heard a single complaint in person.
what do you suppose is going on in the receiver to chassis fit to cause an occasional flier that is not going on during all the other shots? is the reciever not moving in the chassis for 10-15 rounds and then all the sudden shifting and then settles back down for another 10-15 rounds? that seems a bit odd to me.
that is funny how you got three bad ones and i haven't seen one that wouldn't shoot out of the box. i have worked with and know many people using them unbedded and have not heard a single complaint in person.
what do you suppose is going on in the receiver to chassis fit to cause an occasional flier that is not going on during all the other shots? is the reciever not moving in the chassis for 10-15 rounds and then all the sudden shifting and then settles back down for another 10-15 rounds? that seems a bit odd to me.
Re: do AI stocks need to be bedded?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CubeWarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Had several AICS-stocked rifles--from 22LR to 300WM. All needed bedding. </div></div>
obviously you shot them before you bedded them to come to the conclusion that they "needed" it. what was the accuracy improvement on them after bedding?
when someone says that it is NEEDED, i would like to see some hard numbers on target on the improvement made by bedding, not what a dial indicator said on a bench. </div></div>
Stress on the action/stock is stress on the action/stock. Bedding will cure that.
Bedding these setups will also not always show a considerable increase in accuracy, but will show more consistent groups over time and through different conditions (assuming ammo/shooter can maintain the same consistency).
There are rifles that shoot well in them, not every stock in my shop gets bedded, but there is no way anybody can tell me that having the action bent like a banana in the stock is going to be good for anything.
Mark
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CubeWarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Had several AICS-stocked rifles--from 22LR to 300WM. All needed bedding. </div></div>
obviously you shot them before you bedded them to come to the conclusion that they "needed" it. what was the accuracy improvement on them after bedding?
when someone says that it is NEEDED, i would like to see some hard numbers on target on the improvement made by bedding, not what a dial indicator said on a bench. </div></div>
Stress on the action/stock is stress on the action/stock. Bedding will cure that.
Bedding these setups will also not always show a considerable increase in accuracy, but will show more consistent groups over time and through different conditions (assuming ammo/shooter can maintain the same consistency).
There are rifles that shoot well in them, not every stock in my shop gets bedded, but there is no way anybody can tell me that having the action bent like a banana in the stock is going to be good for anything.
Mark
Re: do AI stocks need to be bedded?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: US Handgunner</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CubeWarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Had several AICS-stocked rifles--from 22LR to 300WM. All needed bedding. </div></div>
obviously you shot them before you bedded them to come to the conclusion that they "needed" it. what was the accuracy improvement on them after bedding?
when someone says that it is NEEDED, i would like to see some hard numbers on target on the improvement made by bedding, not what a dial indicator said on a bench. </div></div>
Stress on the action/stock is stress on the action/stock. Bedding will cure that.
Bedding these setups will also not always show a considerable increase in accuracy, but will show more consistent groups over time and through different conditions (assuming ammo/shooter can maintain the same consistency).
There are rifles that shoot well in them, not every stock in my shop gets bedded, but there is no way anybody can tell me that having the action bent like a banana in the stock is going to be good for anything.
Mark
</div></div>
it is one thing to say that "you feel that an aics should be bedded" because of what the dti tells you on the bench. unless you can prove an improvement on paper, i don't think saying they "need" to be bedded is accurate. mine aren't bedded and i am winning matches with them. another poster above is right behind every month with his unbedded aics. i won't say that bedding them is a bad idea or has negative effects (other than possible resale value) but i will say from my own personal experience, bedding them is not "needed".
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bedding these setups will also not always show a considerable increase in accuracy, <span style="color: #FF0000">but will show more consistent groups over time and through different conditions (assuming ammo/shooter can maintain the same consistency).</span></div></div>
is this just an opinion? it sounds like you are stating this as a fact.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: US Handgunner</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CubeWarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Had several AICS-stocked rifles--from 22LR to 300WM. All needed bedding. </div></div>
obviously you shot them before you bedded them to come to the conclusion that they "needed" it. what was the accuracy improvement on them after bedding?
when someone says that it is NEEDED, i would like to see some hard numbers on target on the improvement made by bedding, not what a dial indicator said on a bench. </div></div>
Stress on the action/stock is stress on the action/stock. Bedding will cure that.
Bedding these setups will also not always show a considerable increase in accuracy, but will show more consistent groups over time and through different conditions (assuming ammo/shooter can maintain the same consistency).
There are rifles that shoot well in them, not every stock in my shop gets bedded, but there is no way anybody can tell me that having the action bent like a banana in the stock is going to be good for anything.
Mark
</div></div>
it is one thing to say that "you feel that an aics should be bedded" because of what the dti tells you on the bench. unless you can prove an improvement on paper, i don't think saying they "need" to be bedded is accurate. mine aren't bedded and i am winning matches with them. another poster above is right behind every month with his unbedded aics. i won't say that bedding them is a bad idea or has negative effects (other than possible resale value) but i will say from my own personal experience, bedding them is not "needed".
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bedding these setups will also not always show a considerable increase in accuracy, <span style="color: #FF0000">but will show more consistent groups over time and through different conditions (assuming ammo/shooter can maintain the same consistency).</span></div></div>
is this just an opinion? it sounds like you are stating this as a fact.
Re: do AI stocks need to be bedded?
my action was stressed in an AICS so I bedded mine
my action was stressed in an AICS so I bedded mine
Re: do AI stocks need to be bedded?
Oddly enough, no one ever posts pics of groups shot by these so called "stressed actions" in the AICS. Logically, we all assume if the action is stressed, it needs to be bedded to improve the whole system. Yet, we have no verifiable proof... yet.
Ideally, someone will take some group shot pics of their un-bedded AICS that supposedly does not shoot, then bed it, and show the better results to all of us. Finally we may all shut up.
My smith even told me my Surgeon action was slightly stressed but I declined the bedding offer, mainly due to $. It still shoots 1/3-1/2moa out, all day long. Bottom line, love it or hate it, AI developed a badass system that mates well with many actions and no one else has been as successful, yet. Therefore, bedding NOT necessary.
I think its all a gunsmithing conspiracy to leech more money out of us.
Oddly enough, no one ever posts pics of groups shot by these so called "stressed actions" in the AICS. Logically, we all assume if the action is stressed, it needs to be bedded to improve the whole system. Yet, we have no verifiable proof... yet.
Ideally, someone will take some group shot pics of their un-bedded AICS that supposedly does not shoot, then bed it, and show the better results to all of us. Finally we may all shut up.
My smith even told me my Surgeon action was slightly stressed but I declined the bedding offer, mainly due to $. It still shoots 1/3-1/2moa out, all day long. Bottom line, love it or hate it, AI developed a badass system that mates well with many actions and no one else has been as successful, yet. Therefore, bedding NOT necessary.
I think its all a gunsmithing conspiracy to leech more money out of us.
Re: do AI stocks need to be bedded?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">that is funny how you got three bad ones and i haven't seen one that wouldn't shoot out of the box. i have worked with and know many people using them unbedded and have not heard a single complaint in person.
what do you suppose is going on in the receiver to chassis fit to cause an occasional flier that is not going on during all the other shots? is the reciever not moving in the chassis for 10-15 rounds and then all the sudden shifting and then settles back down for another 10-15 rounds? that seems a bit odd to me. </div></div>
300-- I didn't state an opinion, I stated that all three of my rifles needed bedding. Pre-bedding, the rifles had issues. Post-bedding, and the rifles didn't. I regularly shoot an AI, and I didn't experience the uncalled fliers. The uncalled fliers with the 22LR every 10-15 rounds was also driving me nuts--for about 6 months I thought it was me. We bedded just to see if it would help--no more uncalled fliers.
I don't think I got three bad AICS--I'm positive that I got 3 perfect ones. But all three of those perfect stocks needed bedding with mass-produced factory actions. I will continue to buy AICS because I think they are the best stock out there. With that said, I'm bedding them all.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">that is funny how you got three bad ones and i haven't seen one that wouldn't shoot out of the box. i have worked with and know many people using them unbedded and have not heard a single complaint in person.
what do you suppose is going on in the receiver to chassis fit to cause an occasional flier that is not going on during all the other shots? is the reciever not moving in the chassis for 10-15 rounds and then all the sudden shifting and then settles back down for another 10-15 rounds? that seems a bit odd to me. </div></div>
300-- I didn't state an opinion, I stated that all three of my rifles needed bedding. Pre-bedding, the rifles had issues. Post-bedding, and the rifles didn't. I regularly shoot an AI, and I didn't experience the uncalled fliers. The uncalled fliers with the 22LR every 10-15 rounds was also driving me nuts--for about 6 months I thought it was me. We bedded just to see if it would help--no more uncalled fliers.
I don't think I got three bad AICS--I'm positive that I got 3 perfect ones. But all three of those perfect stocks needed bedding with mass-produced factory actions. I will continue to buy AICS because I think they are the best stock out there. With that said, I'm bedding them all.
Re: do AI stocks need to be bedded?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oddly enough, no one ever posts pics of groups shot by these so called "stressed actions" in the AICS. Logically, we all assume if the action is stressed, it needs to be bedded to improve the whole system. Yet, we have no verifiable proof... yet.
Ideally, someone will take some group shot pics of their un-bedded AICS that supposedly does not shoot, then bed it, and show the better results to all of us. Finally we may all shut up.
My smith even told me my Surgeon action was slightly stressed but I declined the bedding offer, mainly due to $. It still shoots 1/3-1/2moa out, all day long. Bottom line, love it or hate it, AI developed a badass system that mates well with many actions and no one else has been as successful, yet. Therefore, bedding NOT necessary.
<span style="color: #FF0000">I think its all a gunsmithing conspiracy to leech more money out of us.</span> </div></div>
i wouldn't go as far as saying that. i think the people that feel the aics needs bedded honestly believe they do. i would hope builders are not saying so to leach off of the consumer. i have no doubt the people i see posting in this thread are saying so out of complete honesty.
with that said, i'd guess close to 90% of what we do to our rifles to make them more accurate is based strictly on opinion or hearsay. i try hard not to be but i am sure i am just as guilty as anyone else in regards to that. much of the things we do can't be proven on paper. whether it be truing an action or bedding an aics. everyone has their opinions on the matter and is going to do it the way they feel is best.
when it is time to rebarrel my .284 that i have been winning matches with, i'll loosen the front receiver screw and measure how much the receiver moves away from the stock. anyone want to tell me that they think there is not going to be any "stress"?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oddly enough, no one ever posts pics of groups shot by these so called "stressed actions" in the AICS. Logically, we all assume if the action is stressed, it needs to be bedded to improve the whole system. Yet, we have no verifiable proof... yet.
Ideally, someone will take some group shot pics of their un-bedded AICS that supposedly does not shoot, then bed it, and show the better results to all of us. Finally we may all shut up.
My smith even told me my Surgeon action was slightly stressed but I declined the bedding offer, mainly due to $. It still shoots 1/3-1/2moa out, all day long. Bottom line, love it or hate it, AI developed a badass system that mates well with many actions and no one else has been as successful, yet. Therefore, bedding NOT necessary.
<span style="color: #FF0000">I think its all a gunsmithing conspiracy to leech more money out of us.</span> </div></div>
i wouldn't go as far as saying that. i think the people that feel the aics needs bedded honestly believe they do. i would hope builders are not saying so to leach off of the consumer. i have no doubt the people i see posting in this thread are saying so out of complete honesty.
with that said, i'd guess close to 90% of what we do to our rifles to make them more accurate is based strictly on opinion or hearsay. i try hard not to be but i am sure i am just as guilty as anyone else in regards to that. much of the things we do can't be proven on paper. whether it be truing an action or bedding an aics. everyone has their opinions on the matter and is going to do it the way they feel is best.
when it is time to rebarrel my .284 that i have been winning matches with, i'll loosen the front receiver screw and measure how much the receiver moves away from the stock. anyone want to tell me that they think there is not going to be any "stress"?
Re: do AI stocks need to be bedded?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CubeWarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
300-- I didn't state an opinion, I stated that all three of my rifles needed bedding. Pre-bedding, the rifles had issues. Post-bedding, and the rifles didn't. I regularly shoot an AI, and I didn't experience the uncalled fliers. The uncalled fliers with the 22LR every 10-15 rounds was also driving me nuts--for about 6 months I thought it was me. We bedded just to see if it would help--no more uncalled fliers.
I don't think I got three bad AICS--I'm positive that I got 3 perfect ones. But all three of those perfect stocks needed bedding with mass-produced factory actions. I will continue to buy AICS because I think they are the best stock out there. With that said, I'm bedding them all. </div></div>
ok then, how about an opinion. what do you suppose is going on in the receiver to chassis fit to cause an occasional flier that is not going on during all the other shots? is the receiver not moving in the chassis for 10-15 rounds and then all the sudden shifting for one round and then settling back down for another 10-15 rounds?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CubeWarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
300-- I didn't state an opinion, I stated that all three of my rifles needed bedding. Pre-bedding, the rifles had issues. Post-bedding, and the rifles didn't. I regularly shoot an AI, and I didn't experience the uncalled fliers. The uncalled fliers with the 22LR every 10-15 rounds was also driving me nuts--for about 6 months I thought it was me. We bedded just to see if it would help--no more uncalled fliers.
I don't think I got three bad AICS--I'm positive that I got 3 perfect ones. But all three of those perfect stocks needed bedding with mass-produced factory actions. I will continue to buy AICS because I think they are the best stock out there. With that said, I'm bedding them all. </div></div>
ok then, how about an opinion. what do you suppose is going on in the receiver to chassis fit to cause an occasional flier that is not going on during all the other shots? is the receiver not moving in the chassis for 10-15 rounds and then all the sudden shifting for one round and then settling back down for another 10-15 rounds?
Re: do AI stocks need to be bedded?
I'm not a gunsmith, and Mr. Roscoe's explanation makes sense to me. I'd assume that a heavy 22LR action would be less prone to shifting pressure points during recoil in a properly torqued stock than a 300WM. Again, I'm no gunsmith.
I'm not a gunsmith, and Mr. Roscoe's explanation makes sense to me. I'd assume that a heavy 22LR action would be less prone to shifting pressure points during recoil in a properly torqued stock than a 300WM. Again, I'm no gunsmith.
Re: do AI stocks need to be bedded?
To bed or not to bed, that is the owner's decision. AI says nay nay to bedding their chassis. When I was at their shop in VA, I was shown one that had been improperly bedded (too much, too deep).
I think if you are going to bed it, a little dab'l do ya.
To bed or not to bed, that is the owner's decision. AI says nay nay to bedding their chassis. When I was at their shop in VA, I was shown one that had been improperly bedded (too much, too deep).
I think if you are going to bed it, a little dab'l do ya.
Re: do AI stocks need to be bedded?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CubeWarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not a gunsmith, and Mr. Roscoe's explanation makes sense to me. I'd assume that a heavy 22LR action would be less prone to shifting pressure points during recoil in a properly torqued stock than a 300WM. Again, I'm no gunsmith. </div></div>
fair enough. maybe someone else with an opinion on the matter can explain what they feel is/was going on in your situation. i'm honestly curious.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CubeWarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not a gunsmith, and Mr. Roscoe's explanation makes sense to me. I'd assume that a heavy 22LR action would be less prone to shifting pressure points during recoil in a properly torqued stock than a 300WM. Again, I'm no gunsmith. </div></div>
fair enough. maybe someone else with an opinion on the matter can explain what they feel is/was going on in your situation. i'm honestly curious.
Re: do AI stocks need to be bedded?
thanks for all this great info guys! I think I'm going to buy the 1.5 instead of the 2.0 (don't really get the point of the folding stock??) i figure i will shoot it for awhile and then if I'm haveing problems i will get it bedded
thanks for all this great info guys! I think I'm going to buy the 1.5 instead of the 2.0 (don't really get the point of the folding stock??) i figure i will shoot it for awhile and then if I'm haveing problems i will get it bedded
Re: do AI stocks need to be bedded?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: villhelm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think I'm going to buy the 1.5 instead of the 2.0 (don't really get the point of the folding stock??)</div></div>
Not that it is a huge deal, but you will figure out the merit of the folding stock once you go to clean it.
Josh
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: villhelm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think I'm going to buy the 1.5 instead of the 2.0 (don't really get the point of the folding stock??)</div></div>
Not that it is a huge deal, but you will figure out the merit of the folding stock once you go to clean it.
Josh
Re: do AI stocks need to be bedded?
Go for the folder, especially if you go for a shorter barrel. 300Sniper posted some pics of his shorty in this section. Mine folded is about the same length as my CAR with the stock collapsed. You also don't have to take the cheekpiece off to clean it.
If you go for a longer barrel, then the 1.5 is probably the way to go.
Go for the folder, especially if you go for a shorter barrel. 300Sniper posted some pics of his shorty in this section. Mine folded is about the same length as my CAR with the stock collapsed. You also don't have to take the cheekpiece off to clean it.
If you go for a longer barrel, then the 1.5 is probably the way to go.
Re: do AI stocks need to be bedded?
but is not haveing to deal with the hassle of takeing the cheek piece of worth the extra money? I'll probably just roll a stock 20" remington barrel for awhile and then upgrade to like a krieger was thinking at about 27", which do you guys think is best for me?
but is not haveing to deal with the hassle of takeing the cheek piece of worth the extra money? I'll probably just roll a stock 20" remington barrel for awhile and then upgrade to like a krieger was thinking at about 27", which do you guys think is best for me?
Re: do AI stocks need to be bedded?
Ive had 4 AICS's and an AIAE. I had never the need to bed any of them.
The first one i bought when I was 16, and dropped a 40xc into it. It shot great. The Second one I dropped a rem700 custom in and it shot about 5/8th MOA. I thought it could improve and bedded it myself. It continued to shoot 5/8th minute. I then had 2 others that shot beautifully so i didn't see the reason to bed them. In my opinion the system doesn't need it. Having said that though proper torque is a must.
I understand trying to relieve stress and all that but if it doesn't show on paper than It isn't worth it to me. Plus a big pro to the chassis is that it doesn't "need" bedding. I like knowing my stuff is rugged.
Ive had 4 AICS's and an AIAE. I had never the need to bed any of them.
The first one i bought when I was 16, and dropped a 40xc into it. It shot great. The Second one I dropped a rem700 custom in and it shot about 5/8th MOA. I thought it could improve and bedded it myself. It continued to shoot 5/8th minute. I then had 2 others that shot beautifully so i didn't see the reason to bed them. In my opinion the system doesn't need it. Having said that though proper torque is a must.
I understand trying to relieve stress and all that but if it doesn't show on paper than It isn't worth it to me. Plus a big pro to the chassis is that it doesn't "need" bedding. I like knowing my stuff is rugged.
Re: do AI stocks need to be bedded?
How do you know they never needed to be bedded? Theres enough variables that you cant really claim that. Did conditions never change? Did you never change your load? Ever take any of the rifles apart?
I havent built a rifle in an AICS yet, but I wouldnt without bedding it.
Everything is better of bedded if its done right, in my opinion.
How do you know they never needed to be bedded? Theres enough variables that you cant really claim that. Did conditions never change? Did you never change your load? Ever take any of the rifles apart?
I havent built a rifle in an AICS yet, but I wouldnt without bedding it.
Everything is better of bedded if its done right, in my opinion.
Re: do AI stocks need to be bedded?
Interesting that more than one "gunsmith" notes that mass produced actions are far from round/perfect. Surgeons are not mass produced and they are often far from perfect. I would hazard a guess that no amount of bedding/skimming will compensate for slack action tolerances. As far as the AI chassis,...they all measure up as near as dammit the same.
Its down to personal preferenec I guess, but surely you will be better off starting a build sur ein the fact that manufacturers hype asise the action is straight/true/round/in tolerance?
Interesting that more than one "gunsmith" notes that mass produced actions are far from round/perfect. Surgeons are not mass produced and they are often far from perfect. I would hazard a guess that no amount of bedding/skimming will compensate for slack action tolerances. As far as the AI chassis,...they all measure up as near as dammit the same.
Its down to personal preferenec I guess, but surely you will be better off starting a build sur ein the fact that manufacturers hype asise the action is straight/true/round/in tolerance?
Re: do AI stocks need to be bedded?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How do you know they never needed to be bedded? Theres enough variables that you cant really claim that. Did conditions never change? Did you never change your load? Ever take any of the rifles apart?
I havent built a rifle in an AICS yet, but I wouldnt without bedding it.
Everything is better of bedded if its done right, in my opinion. </div></div>
so what do you feel is going to cause issues in the receiver to chassis fit when conditions and loads change and the rifle has been taken apart that is not going to happen with a bit of devcon/marine-tex in the mix?
for what it's worth, i have shot my unbedded aics rifles in 25* temperature in near blizzard conditions and 110* temperatures without issues. i am not sure what load change has to do with any stock to receiver fit.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How do you know they never needed to be bedded? Theres enough variables that you cant really claim that. Did conditions never change? Did you never change your load? Ever take any of the rifles apart?
I havent built a rifle in an AICS yet, but I wouldnt without bedding it.
Everything is better of bedded if its done right, in my opinion. </div></div>
so what do you feel is going to cause issues in the receiver to chassis fit when conditions and loads change and the rifle has been taken apart that is not going to happen with a bit of devcon/marine-tex in the mix?
for what it's worth, i have shot my unbedded aics rifles in 25* temperature in near blizzard conditions and 110* temperatures without issues. i am not sure what load change has to do with any stock to receiver fit.
Re: do AI stocks need to be bedded?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How do you know they never needed to be bedded? Theres enough variables that you cant really claim that. Did conditions never change? Did you never change your load? Ever take any of the rifles apart?
I havent built a rifle in an AICS yet, but I wouldnt without bedding it.
Everything is better of bedded if its done right, in my opinion. </div></div>
so what do you feel is going to cause issues in the receiver to chassis fit when conditions and loads change and the rifle has been taken apart that is not going to happen with a bit of devcon/marine-tex in the mix?
for what it's worth, i have shot my unbedded aics rifles in 25* temperature in near blizzard conditions and 110* temperatures without issues. i am not sure what load change has to do with any stock to receiver fit. </div></div>
Ive shot my unbedded AICS in similar conditions throughout the year with no probs hot to cold, Ive also CHANGED loads, experimented with more than a few, AND I've taken my rifle apart, still no probs....
I can also vouch that 300's unbedded 284 is a F'n hammer!
As far as the folder, for me ??????? It takes maybe....30 seconds to take off the cheekpiece, and scoot the rear pad over. Why do I need a folder?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How do you know they never needed to be bedded? Theres enough variables that you cant really claim that. Did conditions never change? Did you never change your load? Ever take any of the rifles apart?
I havent built a rifle in an AICS yet, but I wouldnt without bedding it.
Everything is better of bedded if its done right, in my opinion. </div></div>
so what do you feel is going to cause issues in the receiver to chassis fit when conditions and loads change and the rifle has been taken apart that is not going to happen with a bit of devcon/marine-tex in the mix?
for what it's worth, i have shot my unbedded aics rifles in 25* temperature in near blizzard conditions and 110* temperatures without issues. i am not sure what load change has to do with any stock to receiver fit. </div></div>
Ive shot my unbedded AICS in similar conditions throughout the year with no probs hot to cold, Ive also CHANGED loads, experimented with more than a few, AND I've taken my rifle apart, still no probs....
I can also vouch that 300's unbedded 284 is a F'n hammer!
As far as the folder, for me ??????? It takes maybe....30 seconds to take off the cheekpiece, and scoot the rear pad over. Why do I need a folder?
Re: do AI stocks need to be bedded?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: villhelm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">but is not haveing to deal with the hassle of takeing the cheek piece of worth the extra money? I'll probably just roll a stock 20" remington barrel for awhile and then upgrade to like a krieger was thinking at about 27", which do you guys think is best for me? </div></div>Depends. My Storm case is set up for transporting my rifle with the bolt out, so I have to take my cheek piece off every time I take my bolt out. I finally built some shims to the correct height so I can make the process quick, and I think I'll be posting a pictoral how-to at some point soon.
Not the end of the world either way, but for an extra $200... it's not much money in the grand scheme of things. I would have bought a folder but the right AW came along in a non folder and it wasn't a deal breaker for me.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: villhelm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">but is not haveing to deal with the hassle of takeing the cheek piece of worth the extra money? I'll probably just roll a stock 20" remington barrel for awhile and then upgrade to like a krieger was thinking at about 27", which do you guys think is best for me? </div></div>Depends. My Storm case is set up for transporting my rifle with the bolt out, so I have to take my cheek piece off every time I take my bolt out. I finally built some shims to the correct height so I can make the process quick, and I think I'll be posting a pictoral how-to at some point soon.
Not the end of the world either way, but for an extra $200... it's not much money in the grand scheme of things. I would have bought a folder but the right AW came along in a non folder and it wasn't a deal breaker for me.
Re: do AI stocks need to be bedded?
to those that use a dti to decide if it needs to be bedded or not, how much movement is there at the tang if you loosen the rear screw on a properly installed and torqued (edit: unbedded) aics?
to those that use a dti to decide if it needs to be bedded or not, how much movement is there at the tang if you loosen the rear screw on a properly installed and torqued (edit: unbedded) aics?
Re: do AI stocks need to be bedded?
300, my point was if you change anything throughout the life of the rifle, how can one claim nothing changed or the POI never changed?
Most people chnge shit a lot. Either working new loads or just tinkering with their rifle.... so that being known, how could the same person claim their POI never shifted due to not bedding?
I would always bed. Thats my opinion. Dont bed if you dont want to
300, my point was if you change anything throughout the life of the rifle, how can one claim nothing changed or the POI never changed?
Most people chnge shit a lot. Either working new loads or just tinkering with their rifle.... so that being known, how could the same person claim their POI never shifted due to not bedding?
I would always bed. Thats my opinion. Dont bed if you dont want to
Re: do AI stocks need to be bedded?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">300, my point was if you change anything throughout the life of the rifle, how can one claim nothing changed or the POI never changed?
Most people chnge shit a lot. Either working new loads or just tinkering with their rifle.... so that being known, how could the same person claim their POI never shifted due to not bedding?
I would always bed. Thats my opinion. Dont bed if you dont want to </div></div>
i am still not understanding your logic. are you saying that changing a load with a bedded stock won't change the point of impact?
i have been using the exact same load since i built my rifle 2200 rounds ago. my zero hasn't changed at all. i'll absolutely claim it didn't shift due to not bedding.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">300, my point was if you change anything throughout the life of the rifle, how can one claim nothing changed or the POI never changed?
Most people chnge shit a lot. Either working new loads or just tinkering with their rifle.... so that being known, how could the same person claim their POI never shifted due to not bedding?
I would always bed. Thats my opinion. Dont bed if you dont want to </div></div>
i am still not understanding your logic. are you saying that changing a load with a bedded stock won't change the point of impact?
i have been using the exact same load since i built my rifle 2200 rounds ago. my zero hasn't changed at all. i'll absolutely claim it didn't shift due to not bedding.
Re: do AI stocks need to be bedded?
A bit Off topic:
I don't have an opinion on the merits of bedding or not bedding an AICS stock. However when I bought an AICS 2.0, to replace an un-bedded H-S Precision stock (also with a bedding block) this was my outcome. Note: The rifle was sighted in @ 100 yds before the stock swap.
1) Removed the scope.
2) Removed barreled action from the H-S Stock
3) Placed barreled action in AICS 2.0 and properly torqued it down.
4) Remounted scope and properly torqued it down
5) Shot it at 100 yds
6) Total POI change was 1" low and 1/2" to the right.
I was fairly astounded that the POI shift was so small considering the changes. Although it does not answer the question as to whether bedding an AICS or not, does improve accuracy and consistency, it does illustrate that aluminum bedding block stocks in general are very stable.
My AICS is still un-bedded, and of course this is a data point of one, so YMMV,
Bob
A bit Off topic:
I don't have an opinion on the merits of bedding or not bedding an AICS stock. However when I bought an AICS 2.0, to replace an un-bedded H-S Precision stock (also with a bedding block) this was my outcome. Note: The rifle was sighted in @ 100 yds before the stock swap.
1) Removed the scope.
2) Removed barreled action from the H-S Stock
3) Placed barreled action in AICS 2.0 and properly torqued it down.
4) Remounted scope and properly torqued it down
5) Shot it at 100 yds
6) Total POI change was 1" low and 1/2" to the right.
I was fairly astounded that the POI shift was so small considering the changes. Although it does not answer the question as to whether bedding an AICS or not, does improve accuracy and consistency, it does illustrate that aluminum bedding block stocks in general are very stable.
My AICS is still un-bedded, and of course this is a data point of one, so YMMV,
Bob
Re: do AI stocks need to be bedded?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">300, <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">my point was if you change anything throughout the life of the rifle, how can one claim nothing changed or the POI never changed?
Most people chnge shit a lot. Either working new loads or just tinkering with their rifle.... so that being known, how could the same person claim their POI never shifted due to not bedding?</span></span>
I would always bed. Thats my opinion. Dont bed if you dont want to </div></div>
What does ANY of this have to do with bedding an AICS???
I think in these instances were people are dropping BA's in an AICS, some are gonna shoot, and some might not.
I still have yet to see one that has not shot good.
Heres sumpum to chew on. I took my GAP 591 BA out of my BEDDED A5, and shot it in TWO DIFFERENT UNBEDDED AICS ( my buddies, and mine) and I HAD NOOOOOO, NONE, NADA, ZILCH change in POI between the 3 stocks...
IMO I see it wise for the riflesmith to bed a BA in an AICS on a fresh dedicated build, just to avoid any potential issues right out the gate, but if a person just wants to drop a BA in an AICS, drop it in, torque it down, and roll. THEN address any issues.
To just automatically say "IT NEEDS BEDDING OR IT WON"T SHOOT..." I think is a lil ignorant.
Again, just my 0.02. YMMV
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">300, <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">my point was if you change anything throughout the life of the rifle, how can one claim nothing changed or the POI never changed?
Most people chnge shit a lot. Either working new loads or just tinkering with their rifle.... so that being known, how could the same person claim their POI never shifted due to not bedding?</span></span>
I would always bed. Thats my opinion. Dont bed if you dont want to </div></div>
What does ANY of this have to do with bedding an AICS???
I think in these instances were people are dropping BA's in an AICS, some are gonna shoot, and some might not.
I still have yet to see one that has not shot good.
Heres sumpum to chew on. I took my GAP 591 BA out of my BEDDED A5, and shot it in TWO DIFFERENT UNBEDDED AICS ( my buddies, and mine) and I HAD NOOOOOO, NONE, NADA, ZILCH change in POI between the 3 stocks...
IMO I see it wise for the riflesmith to bed a BA in an AICS on a fresh dedicated build, just to avoid any potential issues right out the gate, but if a person just wants to drop a BA in an AICS, drop it in, torque it down, and roll. THEN address any issues.
To just automatically say "IT NEEDS BEDDING OR IT WON"T SHOOT..." I think is a lil ignorant.
Again, just my 0.02. YMMV
Re: do AI stocks need to be bedded?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Heavy Haulin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I still have yet to see one that has not shot good. </div></div>
same here. i need to ask him, but i have a feeling the guy we both know that won the local f-class open earlier this month, may have been shooting an unbedded aics. on second thought, maybe he does have his bedded. i am sure it would be impossible for an unbedded aics tactical style rifle to win against dedicated f-open rifles at their game.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Heavy Haulin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
IMO I see it wise for the riflesmith to bed a BA in an AICS on a fresh dedicated build, just to avoid any potential issues right out the gate, but if a person just wants to drop a BA in an AICS, drop it in, torque it down, and roll. THEN address any issues. </div></div>
i agree with this and <span style="font-style: italic">may</span> do the same thing if i were offering turn-key rifles.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Heavy Haulin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
To just automatically say "IT NEEDS BEDDING OR IT WON"T SHOOT..." I think is a lil ignorant.
</div></div>
that's what i am saying.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Heavy Haulin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I still have yet to see one that has not shot good. </div></div>
same here. i need to ask him, but i have a feeling the guy we both know that won the local f-class open earlier this month, may have been shooting an unbedded aics. on second thought, maybe he does have his bedded. i am sure it would be impossible for an unbedded aics tactical style rifle to win against dedicated f-open rifles at their game.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Heavy Haulin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
IMO I see it wise for the riflesmith to bed a BA in an AICS on a fresh dedicated build, just to avoid any potential issues right out the gate, but if a person just wants to drop a BA in an AICS, drop it in, torque it down, and roll. THEN address any issues. </div></div>
i agree with this and <span style="font-style: italic">may</span> do the same thing if i were offering turn-key rifles.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Heavy Haulin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
To just automatically say "IT NEEDS BEDDING OR IT WON"T SHOOT..." I think is a lil ignorant.
</div></div>
that's what i am saying.
Re: do AI stocks need to be bedded?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: US Handgunner</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
there is no way anybody can tell me that having the action bent like a banana in the stock is going to be good for anything.
Mark
</div></div>
thinking about this some more. do you really think the receiver is being bent like a banana when being torqued properly into an aics? if it is, how is the bolt still fitting/functioning in the receiver? you may only have around .005"-.006" of clearance between the two.
due to the shape of the tang, the rear screw is right at or a red cunt hair behind a fulcrum point on the remington receiver when placed into a vee block. the front screw in my opinion is what is doing the majority of the work since it has the long bearing surface with the screw in the center of it. this would also be the reason vee block stock makers installation instructions are suggesting you snug the front screw, snug the rear screw, torque the front screw and then torque the rear screw.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: US Handgunner</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
there is no way anybody can tell me that having the action bent like a banana in the stock is going to be good for anything.
Mark
</div></div>
thinking about this some more. do you really think the receiver is being bent like a banana when being torqued properly into an aics? if it is, how is the bolt still fitting/functioning in the receiver? you may only have around .005"-.006" of clearance between the two.
due to the shape of the tang, the rear screw is right at or a red cunt hair behind a fulcrum point on the remington receiver when placed into a vee block. the front screw in my opinion is what is doing the majority of the work since it has the long bearing surface with the screw in the center of it. this would also be the reason vee block stock makers installation instructions are suggesting you snug the front screw, snug the rear screw, torque the front screw and then torque the rear screw.
Re: do AI stocks need to be bedded?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: villhelm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">thanks for all this great info guys! I think I'm going to buy the 1.5 instead of the 2.0 (don't really get the point of the folding stock??) i figure i will shoot it for awhile and then if I'm haveing problems i will get it bedded </div></div>
And there you have it.
HateCa has probably grown weary of chiming in on these threads, but he always used to and his point was "shoot it first".
Its also a personal choice/confidence issue. If you want one less variable to consider, go ahead and bed it. If one of the variables id the AICS itself, and you may not like its ergos, keep in mind bedding may hinder resale.
I've bedded and not bedded AICS's I've ran. I've finally come to the conclusions that a) I cannot shoot groups well enough to shoot the difference if there was a difference; and b)the AICS's grip is not conducive to ME shooting well.
Was it the chicken or the egg??
Mr Roscoe and Mr Cross bed AICS's whenever they build one, HateCa and GAP (I'm pretty sure) do not.
I'm of the inclination that if there is stress that can be seen with instruments and you are building a custom rifle-eliminate the stress. If you are dropping an existing 700 you have into an AICS, shoot it first and see if it shoots as well or better than the previous stock. If not, try bedding it.
Due to the shape of the rear tang, the rear action screw WILL induce stress <span style="font-weight: bold">on a R700 action </span>(<span style="font-weight: bold">the tang can be pulled lower into the "V" shaped channel than the full round receiver can</span>). Will it make YOUR rifle shoot worse?-can't answer that for you.
R700 in AICS (old bad pictures, but this was MY experience and convinced me to bed mine)-
Front action screw tight, rear loose:
Rear action screw tight, front loose:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: villhelm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">thanks for all this great info guys! I think I'm going to buy the 1.5 instead of the 2.0 (don't really get the point of the folding stock??) i figure i will shoot it for awhile and then if I'm haveing problems i will get it bedded
And there you have it.
HateCa has probably grown weary of chiming in on these threads, but he always used to and his point was "shoot it first".
Its also a personal choice/confidence issue. If you want one less variable to consider, go ahead and bed it. If one of the variables id the AICS itself, and you may not like its ergos, keep in mind bedding may hinder resale.
I've bedded and not bedded AICS's I've ran. I've finally come to the conclusions that a) I cannot shoot groups well enough to shoot the difference if there was a difference; and b)the AICS's grip is not conducive to ME shooting well.
Was it the chicken or the egg??
Mr Roscoe and Mr Cross bed AICS's whenever they build one, HateCa and GAP (I'm pretty sure) do not.
I'm of the inclination that if there is stress that can be seen with instruments and you are building a custom rifle-eliminate the stress. If you are dropping an existing 700 you have into an AICS, shoot it first and see if it shoots as well or better than the previous stock. If not, try bedding it.
Due to the shape of the rear tang, the rear action screw WILL induce stress <span style="font-weight: bold">on a R700 action </span>(<span style="font-weight: bold">the tang can be pulled lower into the "V" shaped channel than the full round receiver can</span>). Will it make YOUR rifle shoot worse?-can't answer that for you.
R700 in AICS (old bad pictures, but this was MY experience and convinced me to bed mine)-
Front action screw tight, rear loose:
Rear action screw tight, front loose:
