Do I need a comparator?

[WillEver]

I've recently started reloading rifle ammunition, and I've got all of the basic tools that I need (I think).

I picked up one of the Sinclair hex-shaped bullet comparators, but nothing to measure shoulder bump. How necessary or useful would it be to have one on hand? I was thinking about getting the SAC version while they're on sale.

 

[moonstalanda]

you don't need it but its nice to have

 

[DairyDictator]

It can be done without them but they are a very helpful and necessary tool to have. It's the best way to ensure you are getting a correct amount of shoulder bump without overworking the case.

 

[hafejd30]

Definitely a good tool. I use the hornady one

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

You kind of do need one yes. You can get by without one but it doesn't make sense to. The Hornady one has served me well for years but I'm sure the sac one is super nice so

 

[BiggBeans]

theyre very inexpensive, order one and be done.

 

[simonp]

Not sure how one gets by without to be honest, I use mine consistently & I use the SAC’s one.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

So, you can just turn your sizing die down incrementally and use the rifle and adjust until its sized down to the feel you want.


However, I would never advise anyone to not have a comparator. Without even talking about the reasons for making good ammo......just safety in general.

Your bolt won't tell you if you've somehow screwed your die down far enough that you have excessive headspace that will end up with case head separations.

 

[Supersubes]

For a new reloader, hell yes get one.

 

[supercorndogs]

Short answer, yes.

Long answer, yes because..

Other answers no, because you could use a piece of brass .40 brass works for the Creeds and .308 and other similar cases. The Hornady set is like 20 bucks and well worth not fiddling with a piece of brass though.

 

[Haney]

Here is another option if they make the caliber you need , very simple tool . Also , works for bullet seating .

 

[FredHammer]

Beyond the shoulder bump checking, you can use a comparator to measure the CBTO and assuage the anxiety over the COAL measurement inconsistencies due to bullet length inconsistencies by the manufacturer.

 

[375fan]

I've used the Hornady one for years. Get one and use it. They are a valuable tool that doesn't cost that much.

 

[Supersubes]

Here is another option if they make the caliber you need , very simple tool . Also , works for bullet seating .

View attachment 8281425

Super expensive in the long run since theyre caliber specific.

 

[WillEver]

Thanks for the help, I'm going to order the set from SAC

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

Thanks for the help, I'm going to order the set from SAC

Area419 also has a very nice set with a caliper stand. We own both SAC and 419 sets. Prefer the 419 (splitting hairs). Though it isn't a cheap set.

The stand holding the calipers vertical also helps with consistent measurements as you're using gravity and not your thumb. Pretty easy to have .001-.003 variations simply from different thumb pressure on the calipers.

 

[Haney]

Super expensive in the long run since theyre caliber specific.

Depends on how you look at "super expensive" , and how you value your money .

 

[simonp]

If you’re going to spend the money on a gun and glass then spend the money on a press and components, decent or excellent dies I don’t understand drawing the line at some form of comparator. I have 3 I believe partially due to calibers and partially due to buying things and deciding what works best for me.

 

[Ex E6]

Anyone ever compare the measurement from SAC verses Hornady on KNOWN dimensions ?

Wise people would so as to see the value of their purchase .

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

Anyone ever compare the measurement from SAC verses Hornady on KNOWN dimensions ?

Wise people would so as to see the value of their purchase .

The only way this works is if you use the SAC datum gauges and compare to hornady. Most people using SAC are using their shoulder angle gauges which aren't going to give the same measurements as hornady.

If using the shoulder angle, the two systems are completely different.

 

[Supersubes]

Depends on how you look at "super expensive" , and how you value your money .

I value my money and my time, which makes the $50 solution the better one.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

It doesn't matter if one compares to another exactly anyway. It just matters that you use the same one for your measurements. It's a comparable measurement, not an absolute one.

 

[diggler1833]

I highly recommend one, even if it is just the Hornady.

For many years I just screwed the F/L die down somewhere between 1/8 - 1/4 turn, and it did work fine regarding making accurate ammunition. However, it came at a cost of excessive sizing and reduced case life.

I consider comparator sets as one of the solid purchases you can make regarding reloading equipment.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

It doesn't matter if one compares to another exactly anyway. It just matters that you use the same one for your measurements. It's a comparable measurement, not an absolute one.

Depends on the tool.

SAC with the datum gauges, hornady (if the holes are cut correctly), and the area419 kit are all actual "measurements" and not comparators.

As in, you should be able to take something like a saami drawing, use the appropriate gauge (a .375 for 6gt as an example) and make an absolute measurement. And those measurements can be passed on to someone else using the same .375.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Depends on the tool.

SAC with the datum gauges, hornady (if the holes are cut correctly), and the area419 kit are all actual "measurements" and not comparators.

As in, you should be able to take something like a saami drawing, use the appropriate gauge (a .375 for 6gt as an example) and make an absolute measurement. And those measurements can be passed on to someone else using the same .375.

Well since it depends on who's doing the measurements, which tool they are using, and since I've tried it a few times with other people's comparator measurment , even with the same insert, I know it won't match up exactly. Also, we use them to compare against our own measurements on brass so, I think I will stick with what I said.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

Well since it depends on who's doing the measurements, which tool they are using, and since I've tried it a few times with other people's comparator measurment , even with the same insert, I know it won't match up exactly. Also, we use them to compare against our own measurements on brass so, I think I will stick with what I said.

Were you using datum gauges or comparators?

You've tried the sac datum gauges (not the shoulder inserts, the actual datum set) and area419 set and compared it with people who have one of those sets?

The hornady set is likely not going to give you the same numbers. The other two sets, I'd be very surprised if you tested those and they didn't give the same measurements. As both are specifically designed as measurement tools and not comparators. With the intent of shared measurements.

 

[WillEver]

If you’re going to spend the money on a gun and glass then spend the money on a press and components, decent or excellent dies I don’t understand drawing the line at some form of comparator. I have 3 I believe partially due to calibers and partially due to buying things and deciding what works best for me.

For me, I think this is the one tool I missed when I was making a list of things I needed to get started. I hadn't considered measuring shoulder bump once I started reloading fired brass. Right now I'm still working through the first box of new brass.

I got the SAC set with bullet and case bushings for the cartridge I'm loading now and the one I plan to load next. Looks like I should have it by Wednesday.

 

[bax]

I highly recommend one, even if it is just the Hornady.

For many years I just screwed the F/L die down somewhere between 1/8 - 1/4 turn, and it did work fine regarding making accurate ammunition. However, it came at a cost of excessive sizing and reduced case life.

I consider comparator sets as one of the solid purchases you can make regarding reloading equipment.

When using dies with 7/8-14 threads, one eighth of a turn is about nine thou. One quarter turn is about eighteen thou. When the current standard seems to be two to three thou I would expect that either would lead to under-sizing the shoulder and reduced brass life.

I use the Hornady gauge, I set the shoulders back 2 to 3 thou. Not great with dirty ammo but fine in a clean environment. Seems to me that trying to get three thou by experimentation without a measuring device would lead to frustration.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Were you using datum gauges or comparators?

You've tried the sac datum gauges (not the shoulder inserts, the actual datum set) and area419 set and compared it with people who have one of those sets?

The hornady set is likely not going to give you the same numbers. The other two sets, I'd be very surprised if you tested those and they didn't give the same measurements. As both are specifically designed as measurement tools and not comparators. With the intent of shared measurements.

No I haven't tried those specific ones against my 2 other types. But that wasn't the question op asked about either. The op and almost all of the rest of us, use comparators to measure against our own measurement, so if it's a little different when compared to SOMEONE ELSES comparator, it really just doesn't matter because that's not how we use them. Now if you are doing spec for a chamber or something, then that's a different subject all together. I know you know this already, so I'm just not sure why you want to confuse the situation or prove some point here that's not relevant?

 

[RickyRacer87]

so to answer the first question do you need one? well I would say you could get by without one and be happy doing it a couple of different ways but why... there are a number of inexpensive options available and a few that are a little expensive. but if you are serious about making your reloads all the same within your abilities then yes you should have one. I started out wanting the best of most things and there have been only a few items that I didn't buy the top end units of and this is one of them. I started out with the Hornady and I was happy with it and it did the job, but then I decided to upgrade to a SAC and loved it and thought there couldn't be anything that I would need that was better than that... But then I saw the Area 419 set and the fact that they are not just a random number but an actual number that means something. Such as being able to know that when you are changing between different brands of bullets you can be assured that the measurement to the lands of you rifle (after you've confirmed them ) will be the same as those using the gauge for that caliber. they are actually cut with a reamer at the actual angle that is normally used for that caliber. some people aren't anal about their ammo but if you are trying to be as consistent as possible then yes you need to have good equipment. I am supper happy with my Area 419 comparator set and am glad that I got it and it is super repeatable and that is always a good test to see if things are working like you want. If your happy with the results and how easy it is to use then you have got what you need. but if your not then maybe it's time to upgrade...
Just my 2 cents

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Everyone needs a comparator… and they don’t have to be caliber specific. But the one size fits all do tend To be a tad more expensive.

 

[WillEver]

I think for me, the SAC is probably the right choice. The Area 419 looks great, but the difference would probably be lost on me. And I've already got a couple of big ticket items on my want list (FX-120i, Garmin Xero...)

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Were you using datum gauges or comparators?

You've tried the sac datum gauges (not the shoulder inserts, the actual datum set) and area419 set and compared it with people who have one of those sets?

The hornady set is likely not going to give you the same numbers. The other two sets, I'd be very surprised if you tested those and they didn't give the same measurements. As both are specifically designed as measurement tools and not comparators. With the intent of shared measurements.

Well you talked me into getting a 419 set. As if I needed to spend more money on gun and loading stuff...... it does look nice and I didn't know that it was a different type of set than others. I have a few Hornady and I have another that is maybe made by Forster? Anyway, I will keep one other and probably sell the rest when I move all my stuff into the new loading room and get it all organized. It is going to be nice to have that 419 set to actually measure the same as my chamber is cut with the 1.5 degree. That's pretty cool

 

[RickyRacer87]

Well you talked me into getting a 419 set. As if I needed to spend more money on gun and loading stuff...... it does look nice and I didn't know that it was a different type of set than others. I have a few Hornady and I have another that is maybe made by Forster? Anyway, I will keep one other and probably sell the rest when I move all my stuff into the new loading room and get it all organized. It is going to be nice to have that 419 set to actually measure the same as my chamber is cut with the 1.5 degree. That's pretty cool

One of the coolest parts is the stand… it’s a bit more money but makes thins so much easier.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

One of the coolest parts is the stand… it’s a bit more money but makes thins so much easier.View attachment 8283492

Yeah, I honestly hadn't ever really looked into it. It is pretty slick. I will be glad to have it and I need to sell some of my gadgets and stuff anyway when I move to the new room. It will be nice to have

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Were you using datum gauges or comparators?

You've tried the sac datum gauges (not the shoulder inserts, the actual datum set) and area419 set and compared it with people who have one of those sets?

The hornady set is likely not going to give you the same numbers. The other two sets, I'd be very surprised if you tested those and they didn't give the same measurements. As both are specifically designed as measurement tools and not comparators. With the intent of shared measurements.

I didn't mean to be a dick to you and I'm sorry if that's the way it read. You were not being ugly or anything I was just being too sensitive and I apologize. The 419 set is badass and you're probably right that it will compare accurately with another 419 set. I'm glad you did post this because it is what got me to look at that set and get one while on sale and it really is sweet and the stand will help clean up my bench too. Perfect addition for the new room, so Thank you.