Hi new guy here, been loading for 10 yrs. got my first custom barrel last year, 22-250 Mcgowen standard chamber, getting pressure signs with mid-level loads, ( flat primers, heavy bolt lift), and higher than book velocities, i load for 8 different calibers with no issues, from what i've found in my research i should be able to easily put a bullet into the neck of a fired case, with this Mcgowen barrel i can get a bullet in a fired case but i have to force it in with finger pressure, is the chamber neck to tight and do i need to neck turn my brass for this rifle. Thanks.
- Thread starter Crowbait
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9 reloads with factory hornady brass and I have had zero reasons to turn the necks on my brass , but if you wanna do it then please do .
Unless you have a tight neck chamber there isnt much need for it other than maybe a 90% clean up for better uniformity or just a masochis like me.
Are forcing it in because the neck is tight, or is there a flat on one edge where the case mouth dragged inside the action during extraction? Can you feel the expander ball when inserting a fired case in the die?
If you measure the diameter of the neck on a loaded cartridge and on a fired cartridge, what is the difference in diameter?
Neck is tight
.002 difference
Yes i can feel the expander ball
I just never had this issue with higher than book velocities and pressure signs with mid-level loads just trying to figure out why, and i do like to tinker, if i have to lol.
Hello Crowbait, please allow me to help you here.
Regarding being able to place bullet into neck easily "after" firing.
In my experience, this is not standardized result. Here is why.
-its because when you "shoot" the round, the brass does not maintain its exact size as it was when it had neck tension. It ...as you can say.."snaps back" somewhat. Thus, you can actually in many types of brass, NOT be able to put a new bullet "by hand" back into the neck, it will require a press. However, even though it requires press, it will be VERY low neck tension, and not reliable, so you should always do "full length" resizing. For most applications around 3k neck tension is appropriate.
This is a separate issue than "neck turning". Neck turning is a practice that people who seek lowest SD as possible do, because all brass is not the same thickness around the neck. Brass may be variable from say 14k-16k thick for example. So you neck size it to make it all 14k. And what this does, is make the neck tension more consistent from load to load. In my extensive testing, this lowers SD and ES by ~20-30%. This in turn, will make a larger difference the longer range you are shooting at and matter A LOT at 1000 yards for example.
Oh also, book data is not reliable, as in its not accurate to the combination you are using. It could be +/- 2 entire GRAINS different than reality in the combination of components and barrel, etc, your using. So just use book for finding starting point, and then shoot until you get results you want. After you find baseline, book is useless.
I hope this helps you.
Regarding being able to place bullet into neck easily "after" firing.
In my experience, this is not standardized result. Here is why.
-its because when you "shoot" the round, the brass does not maintain its exact size as it was when it had neck tension. It ...as you can say.."snaps back" somewhat. Thus, you can actually in many types of brass, NOT be able to put a new bullet "by hand" back into the neck, it will require a press. However, even though it requires press, it will be VERY low neck tension, and not reliable, so you should always do "full length" resizing. For most applications around 3k neck tension is appropriate.
This is a separate issue than "neck turning". Neck turning is a practice that people who seek lowest SD as possible do, because all brass is not the same thickness around the neck. Brass may be variable from say 14k-16k thick for example. So you neck size it to make it all 14k. And what this does, is make the neck tension more consistent from load to load. In my extensive testing, this lowers SD and ES by ~20-30%. This in turn, will make a larger difference the longer range you are shooting at and matter A LOT at 1000 yards for example.
Oh also, book data is not reliable, as in its not accurate to the combination you are using. It could be +/- 2 entire GRAINS different than reality in the combination of components and barrel, etc, your using. So just use book for finding starting point, and then shoot until you get results you want. After you find baseline, book is useless.
I hope this helps you.
NO.
If you're seeing signs of pressure (getting flat primers and heavy bolt lift) you should probably back down your charge. What does "mid-level charge" even mean... if you're getting higher than book velocity, why would you even care what the charge weight is? Is it accurate? Will the velocity allow you to hit what you need to hit?
Every barrel is a little different, just load accordingly and lead a happy life without wasting any of it turning necks.
If you're seeing signs of pressure (getting flat primers and heavy bolt lift) you should probably back down your charge. What does "mid-level charge" even mean... if you're getting higher than book velocity, why would you even care what the charge weight is? Is it accurate? Will the velocity allow you to hit what you need to hit?
Every barrel is a little different, just load accordingly and lead a happy life without wasting any of it turning necks.
If you didnt request a tight neck chamber it sounds like thats what you got anyway.
And McGowan hasnt exactly been batting a 1000 lately.
Just to add all of my aftermarket barrels get higher than book velocities by equal charge weight even the ones that are slightly shorter than ones used in the books.
They are for refference only in my mind as they dont account for many other variables, power lot variations, bore condition and finish, a different brand of brass with different internal volumes, different primers and so on.
But if i see pressure signs i adjust to them.
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Any information i can get is helpful, i'm just trying to determine what is causing my pressure signs my headspace, and case length is all good, these pressure signs have me baffled and i want to determine if a tight neck can cause these issues, fired case neck diameter is .254 loaded case diameter is .252 allowing for .001 of spring back that only leaves .001 if neck clearance, do you think that could cause higher than normal pressures.
I have tried factory ammo without any problems and my case length is good, i don't see the pressure issues until i get 1.5 to 1.0 gr. from max the gun will shoot less than a 1/2" with R15 but the velocities are around 3450 kinda defeats the purpose of a 22-250.
Honestly if I had to guess it is probably the work McGowan did. I have one barrel from them and will never order another. Chamber on my 22-250ai is not super great (land symmetry at the start of the rifling is not even close to symmetrical indicating improper alignment), and the threading on both ends of the barrel looks like it could have been cut with a file.
You should reach out and see if they can send you the print for the specific reamer they used to at least get a data point before permanently modifying your brass IMO
You should reach out and see if they can send you the print for the specific reamer they used to at least get a data point before permanently modifying your brass IMO
As for McGowan your right i recently had to send back a 7mm-08 barrel that would not even chamber a factory round, i really am anal about my reloading process and just can't figure out what is causing the over pressure, thanks for your help.
When i got this barrel from them the crown looked like it was cut with a chisel had my smith re-crown, when you mention the start of the rifling not being symmetrical that might explain why when i chamber a round i sometimes feel a little hitch right at the end and see drag marks on one side of the bullet after i eject it un-fired, thanks for your help.
I get the same drag marks on mine. And it shoots terrible. Wildly inconsistent. I got the barrel for about 280 bucks around Black Friday and expected from the prior feedback that it might be a dud and was willing to take the risk. It works well enough to hit a gong while I wait for the other rifles to cool down. Last time going with McGowan. What action are you running? For a superior barrel in the same price point and with prefit capability xcaliber is so so much better
I have it on a Remington action and it has shot some good groups, but one time it will shoot 1/2" with a load then the next time the exact same load won't shoot under an inch, very inconsistent, i put together myself, just had my smith re-crown it, the headspace checks good, just frustrated with it, i'm going to take it to my smith and see if he can tell me what the issue is, maybe do a chamber cast, and i have heard good things about xcaliber, thanks again, and i'm done with McGowan.
I've pulled a lot of bullets while working with this barrel because of pressure signs, mid-level is half way between starting and max loads, it shoots very inconsistent, it's just my coyote calling rifle, but i do get some far shots just trying to understand why this barrel acts like it does, maybe my smith can figure it out, thanks for your help.
I have seen properly head spacing barrels be short throated…. With factory ammo not creating the same issue. I imagine your bullets are seated longer than factory ammo and there is also the dreaded carbon ring that is a possibility.
Please keep us posted
Please keep us posted
Do you need to neck turn? Probably
Should you cut your losses and pull the McGowen? Yes, before you neck turn.
Should you cut your losses and pull the McGowen? Yes, before you neck turn.
I've shot it with ammo seated to factory specs with the same issue, and i probably clean it to much so i don't think either of those reasons could be the problem and i will keep you posted, thanks.
I was thinking the same thing i'm heading down the basement now to pull it and take it to my smith, before i waste any more components, i'll let you know what he says, thanks.
Better to do this - neck turning is a pain.
I'm taking it to my smith on Monday and have him check the chamber dimensions and tell me what he thinks, i may need to get my hands on a reamer, thanks for the input.
My smith says the chamber is fine, a little tight but everything within spec, so it's back to the drawing board.
That's probably not a real consistent way to do it but it should be good enough to see if the pressure signs go away, i'm trying to avoid spending the money on neck turning gear if i don't really need it, so i'm gonna try the sandpaper, thanks for the idea and i will let you know what my results are
You are getting pressure signs and higher than expected velocity. Back the load off.
I have some chambers the bullet will go into the case easily others it needs to be forced. I talked to a guy recently who can reload a cartridge with out any case sizing at all.
I have some chambers the bullet will go into the case easily others it needs to be forced. I talked to a guy recently who can reload a cartridge with out any case sizing at all.
Or simply switch to a brand of brass that has thinner necks. Another option is to switch powders to one with lower chamber pressures.
This was my first custom barrel and i never had the pressure issue with any of my factory barrels so it kind of stumped me at first, i think it's the fact that the chamber is tighter than all my factory chambers is what is causing the pressure signs, i just have to learn to load for this custom barrel, thanks for the input.
I've tried R15, H4895, Varget, IMR4064, H414, CFE223, and IMR8208xbr, can't get near max without the pressure signs showing up, can't seem to get up to 3700 fps without pressure signs, i guess i'll just have to be content with 3600, but the inconsistency is still something i have to figure out.
You've never mentioned which bullet and weight you're trying to load for but since you mentioned 3700 fps I assume you're talking 55 gr or less.
Correct i've been using 55 gr. vmax and nosler varmageddons, it will shoot them less than a 1/2" with R15, but the velocity is only around 3450, kinda defeats the purpose of having a 22-250, if i could get at least 3600 with the same accuracy i would be happy, my barrel is 12 twist maybe i will try some 50 gr. bullets and see what happens.
I sanded 3 necks took them down .002 still have the same issue i tried a load of 33.5 gr. of 8208xbr, max is 35.8, 2.3 gr. under max and i get pressure signs, i've tried everything i can think of and i don't have a clue, i'm starting to think the bore itself is to tight, if that makes sense.
you will why I don't know , but me I have reloaded 1500 pieces of brass 9 times and not a one of them have needed it .
What length barrel?
Have you contacted McGowan?
Have you contacted McGowan?
It's 24" 12 twist, remington sporter profile, and no i haven't contacted them yet.
Man sorry to hear your troubles. I know you don’t want to hear it but my 22-250 with 55 vmax and 4064 is basically a one hole group at 100yds even though it’s usually just quarter minute of coyote. Hope you get things figured out soon, such a fun round to be having issues with.
A friend is replacing his McGowan barrel with a Lilja this week. Velocity just wasn't there and there was some other issues with it according to his gunsmith.
I've shot lots of 55s in my 22-250 but once I tried 40gr Ballistic Tips and saw the truly medieval carnage on gophers I've stayed with the 40s.
I've shot lots of 55s in my 22-250 but once I tried 40gr Ballistic Tips and saw the truly medieval carnage on gophers I've stayed with the 40s.
I appreciate your concern lol, i was using imr 4064 had an accurate load then the next time i'd shoot the groups opened up, i'm gonna continue to work on it until i figure it out, stubborn like that.
If i could afford it this barrel would be in the trash, i want to use the 55's in the 24", i have an 18" suppressed bull barrel 22-250 that i use the 40 gr. vmax in, i get them going around 3900 really smacks coyotes, and destroys crows, if i don't figure this barrel issue out soon i may just send it back to McGowen and have them look at it.
FYI, in case you haven’t seen it…
What is happening at McGowan
This barrel is a replacement for a replacement. The first one had drastically undersized muzzle threads. The second one had drastically undersized tennon threads. All showed this same rough threading. The first one had the same bad crown as this one. The second had no crown. I guess when...
www.snipershide.com Good luck.
Thanks for the input, that sure doesn't give me much confidence in McGowen.FYI, in case you haven’t seen it…
What is happening at McGowan
This barrel is a replacement for a replacement. The first one had drastically undersized muzzle threads. The second one had drastically undersized tennon threads. All showed this same rough threading. The first one had the same bad crown as this one. The second had no crown. I guess when...
Good luck.
There’s too many good barrel makers out there (Bartlein, Schneider, Kreiger, Lilja, Proof, WOA, Douglas, etc) to waste money on bottom feeders. Hopefully you can somehow get your $$ back so you can grab a good one for your rifle. Not sure if yours is a semi auto or bolt gun but either way, there’s some good options out there.
It's a Rem. 700 stainless action, i'm gonna try one more thing if it doesn't work then i'm gonna contact McGowen, see how good there warranty is.
