I've gotten into PCC's and have decided to reload my 9mm. I'd like to make the most of the 16" barrels but I'm having trouble finding data on loads that use slower-burning powders in 16" barrels, especially with 147gr cast bullets. Can anyone point me to a source or have some recipes?
- Thread starter AbitNutz
- Start date
I run 16" 9mm AR 15, and plus P loads can be used. The 9mm is a small case ...so its limited.
I run 50 gr copper to over 2600 fps, 115 gr 1720 fps, 124 gr 1600 fps, 147 gr 1300 fps, 155 fmj 1200 fps. ..with mostly Blue Dot powder.
Too hot for handguns.... and only safe in my AR 15. So Warning : work up and use at your own risk!
115 gr Hornaday Hap 8.5 gr Blue Dot 1.090" COAL
124 gr HST 8.3 gr Blue Dot 1.130" COAL
50 gr copper HP 9.0 gr Auto Comp COAL 1.120" 2600 fps.
The 9mm with a 16" barreled AR moves it to 357 mag pistol energy, and easily make hits on 3/4 steel torso at 200 yds ...10 out of 10.
I run 50 gr copper to over 2600 fps, 115 gr 1720 fps, 124 gr 1600 fps, 147 gr 1300 fps, 155 fmj 1200 fps. ..with mostly Blue Dot powder.
Too hot for handguns.... and only safe in my AR 15. So Warning : work up and use at your own risk!
115 gr Hornaday Hap 8.5 gr Blue Dot 1.090" COAL
124 gr HST 8.3 gr Blue Dot 1.130" COAL
50 gr copper HP 9.0 gr Auto Comp COAL 1.120" 2600 fps.
The 9mm with a 16" barreled AR moves it to 357 mag pistol energy, and easily make hits on 3/4 steel torso at 200 yds ...10 out of 10.
The fastest 9mm load in the 16" AR is this 50 gr copper HP at 2600 fps, and it accurate in my rifle ...but it sheds velocity fast. A fun plinker for reactive targets, and functions well in AR, with the Stern adapter and Glock mags...and 1966 fps in Glock 26...this is the only dual load..but it is 
P...mostly an AR load, with an AR 15 set up properly, with heavy adjustable buffer with a few tungsten weights added, so all the AR 15 9mm loads are .1 gr under max in load books or p loads.
P...mostly an AR load, with an AR 15 set up properly, with heavy adjustable buffer with a few tungsten weights added, so all the AR 15 9mm loads are .1 gr under max in load books or p loads.Attachments
Yes, all of them do. Load data is the same regardless of barrel length. The only difference is muzzle velocity.
I'm pretty much sticking to 147gr cast because that's my best mold. The NOE mold drops 4 visually perfect pills right from the get-go. It's almost effortless to cast with it. I then coat them with Hi-Tek. I shot them exclusively with pistols previously but now I'm looking to run them through my 16" PCC's. I know I can use slower-burning powders but I have zero load data.
I run Blue Bullets' .356 135TCs (which are also coated lead) in my PCC and USPSA blasters, and I use the same exact load in both (3.4gn Sport Pistol, COAL 1.115").
Out of a 4.89"/4.49" CZS2/G17 my average MV is 951fps, out of the 16" PCC the same load yields 1057fps.
IDK if there's any load data in any manuals specifically for PCCs, but IME, guessing you're going to pick up ~100fps over a listed pistol load will put you in the neighborhood.
Out of a 4.89"/4.49" CZS2/G17 my average MV is 951fps, out of the 16" PCC the same load yields 1057fps.
IDK if there's any load data in any manuals specifically for PCCs, but IME, guessing you're going to pick up ~100fps over a listed pistol load will put you in the neighborhood.
Last edited:
I have a case of 147g factory ammo. I was convinced my AR9 was really rough running until I shot some 124g reloads. Something like 3.5 or 4.5g of 700x pretty hot. It sounds like some of them are breaking the sound barrier. IT runs way smoother with the lighter bullet.
JP of JP rifles has a PDF out where they talk about how much softer heavier bullets shoot with slow-burning powder out of a PCC than fast-burning. They list the bullet weights and velocities but they decline to tell you what powder they're using. All they say about it is to be careful...gee thanks JP. I'll attach the PDF.
Here is load data for cast bullets 147 gr 9 mm Luger...pick a powder, work uo a load.
Attachments
No different than what you can use in pistols though.
Some people get an idea that slower powders build peak pressure farther down the barrel than the length of a normal pistol barrel, but that's not accurate. Even with the slowest 9mm pistol powders, peak pressure occurs with the bullet just a little bit in front of the chamber, not 5-6+ inches down the barrel as some people think.
Reason for pointing that out is an accurate understanding of how this actually works will lead you to realize that you don't need or benefit from different load data for longer carbine barrels.
This is especially true with the blowback actions found in most PCC setups; the locked breech action of most pistols will handle hotter loads and slower burning powders than almost any blowback action.
IMO you're chasing this slower powder load data thing based on misconceptions about internal ballistics.
A heavy bullet produces more recoil than a lighter one. Thats just how it is. Thats why people went to shooting 100-115g 6mm bullets over 130-147g 6.5 bullets. Thats the reason a 20 Practical shooting 32g bullets has less recoil than a 223 shooting 55g bullets. One of the major parts of the equation for recoil is bullet weight.
I've got a JP GMR-13 with 16,000 through it, all my reloads. I shoot 124 JHP bullets and load 1.120". 4.2 Tite Group = 1196 FPS, 4.9 Longshot = 1159, 4.1 Win 244 = 1098.
Heavier bullets can have less recoil than lighter bullets depending on the powder charge and muzzle velocity. A light loaded 147 with a small powder charge and a plus p 115, the 115 will have slightly more recoil....use a recoil calculator to give you a close idea of what recoil your individual loads actually have.
Peak pressures are reached quickly, slow powders have a mixture & deterant coating to slow down the burn, making the push last a few milliseconds longer, for a less abrupt push and drop off of pressure behind the bullet..."could" be an advantage, depending on the cartridge chosen. A 9 mm Luger has a very small capacity, and limited in powder choice burn rates, with respect to its capacity. Although there are quite alot of powders to choose from between the fence posts of usability. Bullseye to H110 about 52 powders to choose from, for a particular application, until load compression is ridiculous, to powder charges so small they do not cycle auto loaders...your load is somewhere that group of powders, for your bullet combinations, and what you desire, high velocities, subs, soft shooting, or maybe low muzzle flash for defensive use.
When I use 9 mm I never run anything but jacketed bullets at highest velocity for a particular powder, in loading manuals, for pistols. Then ARs are all Plus P loads. The 9mm is a wimpy cartridge, so why not improve it in a rifle that will handle, 38,400 to 40,000 psi loads, up from 34,000 psi max standard loads, when set up correctly.
For 147 lead there are plus p loads from Accurate depending on bullet, 4" barrel 147 Rain 7.0 gr Accurate #7 = 1,047 fps at 38,337 psi 1.160" coal. LC FP 6.7 grs #7 1049 fps 38 384 psi 1.145" coal...
Lead is not my cup of tea, I run 155 fmj at 1200 fps, or 147 gr HST at 1300 plus fps, from AR 15 16", for heavy bullets...I have run 185 gr bullets in 9 mm AR with diminishing returns, for such a heavy bullet, 155 to 165 gr are about max useful weight in this cartridge. Unless ya like 8 to 900 fps subs the 185 gr may be useful...my 9s and 380s are all at maximum effort loaded...as they are what they are...wimpy, but fun to shoot.
Peak pressures are reached quickly, slow powders have a mixture & deterant coating to slow down the burn, making the push last a few milliseconds longer, for a less abrupt push and drop off of pressure behind the bullet..."could" be an advantage, depending on the cartridge chosen. A 9 mm Luger has a very small capacity, and limited in powder choice burn rates, with respect to its capacity. Although there are quite alot of powders to choose from between the fence posts of usability. Bullseye to H110 about 52 powders to choose from, for a particular application, until load compression is ridiculous, to powder charges so small they do not cycle auto loaders...your load is somewhere that group of powders, for your bullet combinations, and what you desire, high velocities, subs, soft shooting, or maybe low muzzle flash for defensive use.
When I use 9 mm I never run anything but jacketed bullets at highest velocity for a particular powder, in loading manuals, for pistols. Then ARs are all Plus P loads. The 9mm is a wimpy cartridge, so why not improve it in a rifle that will handle, 38,400 to 40,000 psi loads, up from 34,000 psi max standard loads, when set up correctly.
For 147 lead there are plus p loads from Accurate depending on bullet, 4" barrel 147 Rain 7.0 gr Accurate #7 = 1,047 fps at 38,337 psi 1.160" coal. LC FP 6.7 grs #7 1049 fps 38 384 psi 1.145" coal...
Lead is not my cup of tea, I run 155 fmj at 1200 fps, or 147 gr HST at 1300 plus fps, from AR 15 16", for heavy bullets...I have run 185 gr bullets in 9 mm AR with diminishing returns, for such a heavy bullet, 155 to 165 gr are about max useful weight in this cartridge. Unless ya like 8 to 900 fps subs the 185 gr may be useful...my 9s and 380s are all at maximum effort loaded...as they are what they are...wimpy, but fun to shoot.
Tag, because I'm interested.
Been thinking about buying/building a PCC.
I'm set up to load 9mm but haven't 100% decided that's what I would go with. 45 ACP is tempting, just because.
Mike
Been thinking about buying/building a PCC.
I'm set up to load 9mm but haven't 100% decided that's what I would go with. 45 ACP is tempting, just because.
Mike
The AR 15 with a Stern mag adapter and use 9 mm glock mags, works great...up to 33 rds in the long stick mag. An 8000 rd torture test was done on video with this set up with a full auto m16 lower, 33 rd mag after mag, dumped full auto to try to stop the gun. Smokin hot the gun kept running, the amount of heat was ridiculous, at around 8200 rds the forward assist spring broke and jammed up the bolt.. they say, took out the forward assist and ran a few more mags, to complete the test. It's a good set up.
Exactly.
The only reason so many people think heavier 9mm bullets shoot softer than lighter bullets is because of the arbitrary momentum formula for "Power Factor" for the popular gun games. That formula has no relevance to actual power, the capability of the cartridge, recoil, or terminal effect, but has been widely used for so long in competition that a lot of people just accept it's results without really considering or understanding it.
The truth is that loaded to the cartridge's potential, or to similar power levels, heavier bullets recoil more than lighter bullets. But when loaded to equal momentum (i.e. Power Factor), a heavier bullet results in a much less powerful load, which makes it softer shooting. Obviously hot loads recoil more than mild loads, and that's all that the power factor calculation proves.
An experiment I've conducted on several pistols, and anyone here can do the same - find the minimum load that a particular pistol will cycle with a light bullet (like a 115gr 9mm for example). Then find the minimum load that same pistol will cycle with a heavy bullet, like a 147gr for example. Now compare how they feel in recoil, and calculate the power (muzzle energy) in ft-lb. In every example, I've found that minimum power ends up the same across bullet weights - like a particular stock G19 of mine that will cycle loads down to 250 ft-lb regardless of bullet weight, but the heavier bullet loads produce more muzzle flip, not less as so many people have come to believe. The same is true if you're loading to the maximum power of the cartridge.
Easy button for the OP if he wants high velocity loads is to pick up some Autocomp and a decent 115gr or 124gr bullet and work up a hot load. But pay attention to early extraction and case bulging with that blowback action; I've been down this road and found the limit with 9mm was when cases were bulging because the action was open too early. (On a related note - in the same activity with the bottleneck 357 Sig round I found case shoulders moving forward as the blowback action was extracting too soon, with loads that were fine in a Glock.)
Exact recoil can be calculated really easy... Recoil calculator...and a little exact information.
Weight the gun in question, chronograph the average velocity of the load. Use the bullet weight, powder charge weight, and muzzle velocity... plug into the calculator get the exact recoil of this particular load in your particular gun...so easy a caveman could do it. And you can modify the load to adjust the recoil, with respect to the operation of the auto loading gun, which must function correctly.
Weight the gun in question, chronograph the average velocity of the load. Use the bullet weight, powder charge weight, and muzzle velocity... plug into the calculator get the exact recoil of this particular load in your particular gun...so easy a caveman could do it. And you can modify the load to adjust the recoil, with respect to the operation of the auto loading gun, which must function correctly.
Obviously. But that has nothing to do with the point being made, which is that heavier bullets generate more recoil, not less, for a given power level or when used at the maximum capability of the load.
We all know that milder loads make less recoil and that recoil can be calculated - what's your point?
You made the point for me ....heavier bullets with milder loads can have less recoil than lighter bullets of that caliber who have max load of powder and high velocity.... so if one cared to, one could actually calculate the recoil and use a heavier bullet load with equal or less recoil..for those concerned with recoil. Just using a heavy bullet doesn't mean heavier recoil...it's how much powder ya put behind it... as I'll have previously explained...if you read the post...I wasn't talking maximum load of each, as you well know...some calibers like the 8.6 Blackout have less recoil with 300 gr subs and 185 supers have twice the recoil because it's such a small cartridge with limitations and that is max effort for each...
strike one...
Last edited:
Similar threads
