Does anyone sell Key-mod hardware that isn't Chinese or air-soft garbage??

[357Max]

So Key-Mod was joint venture btwn VLTOR & Noveske & neither one of them sell the hardware. BCM supposedly makes good Key-Mod nuts, but never in stock.........never WTF.

Not really a Key-Mod fan, but I've somehow ended up with 2 Key-Mod rails & all I can find is garbage hardware.

I don't fucking get it. Anyone have a source for good attachment hardware?

 

[_Windrider_]

So Key-Mod was joint venture btwn VLTOR & Noveske & neither one of them sell the hardware. BCM supposedly makes good Key-Mod nuts, but never in stock.........never WTF.

Not really a Key-Mod fan, but I've somehow ended up with 2 Key-Mod rails & all I can find is garbage hardware.

I don't fucking get it. Anyone have a source for good attachment hardware?

Sell the rails

 

[357Max]

Sell the rails

It's Monolithic VLTOR fusion on a 6 ARC I'm building.

The other rail is a Mega 7075 on a 20" 223W proof steel barreled DMR. I could sell that one but it is a really nice rigid rail.

Just seems crazy to me that no one sells quality hardware aside from the proprietary stuff that comes with their own mounts.
The Arisaka set up is sweet.

 

[357Max]

I'm just playing with AR's. If I had an AI, I'd be really pissed having to order Fang Fang airsoft hardware from Alibaba.

Seriously all the guys running AI's on here someone has to have a source for good (in spec) Key-Mod hardware?

 

[jb0311]

what exactly are you looking for? Arisaka Defense is made in USA, or at least they used to be last time I checked.

 

[308pirate]

I'm just playing with AR's. If I had an AI, I'd be really pissed having to order Fang Fang airsoft hardware from Alibaba.

Seriously all the guys running AI's on here someone has to have a source for good (in spec) Key-Mod hardware?

What looks like keymod on AI rifles isn't keymod. It looks similar but from what I know it's proprietary to AI.

No idea how the AI system would work on true keymod slots

 

[357Max]

what exactly are you looking for? Arisaka Defense is made in USA, or at least they used to be last time I checked.

Arisaka is great, I have no complaints. Their Key-Mod hardware is inverted. It's a great design that's proprietary and not for sale separately.

Pictured below is Arisaka next to Amazon key - mod nut.

My frustration is trying to mount quality parts that do not come with hardware such as an Arca Rail and rail weights.

Even the AI Key-Mod rail weights (out of stock) use a proprietary fastener & AI does not sell Key- Mod fasteners.

Below is a picture of the Area 419 Key-Mod nut (presumably BCM) that came with the 419 Key-Mod Arca rail. That nut is 8-32 and in spec. Next to it is the Chinese Amazon nut. Clearly the Chinese nut (Metric) is out of spec. Doesn't fit the rail worth a shit. And no, Area 419 does not sell just the Key-Mod hardware.

BTW the 419 rail doesn't fit the Mega rail. I'm going to have to machine the key-mod locators.

Why can't I just buy in spec nuts anywhere?

Fuck Key-Mod!

 

[_Windrider_]

What looks like keymod on AI rifles isn't keymod. It looks similar but from what I know it's proprietary to AI.

No idea how the AI system would work on true keymod slots

AI calls it Key Slot

 

[357Max]

What looks like keymod on AI rifles isn't keymod. It looks similar but from what I know it's proprietary to AI.

No idea how the AI system would work on true keymod slots

I think your right. I vaguely remember someone mentioning that before.

Still I see no excuse for not being able to purchase in spec hardware from anywhere. There's a shit ton of Key mod rails out there.

I solved the first hurdle mounting a heavy Arca rail using leftover KRG hardware. Flat head weld nuts lay perfectly in the rail and the nub centered it in the slot. Problem is now I'm out & have nothing to mount weights with. 7 week lead time from Mcmaster............. Fuck!

 

[308pirate]

I think your right. I vaguely remember someone mentioning that before.

Still I see no excuse for not being able to purchase in spec hardware from anywhere. There's a shit ton of Key mod rails out there.

I solved the first hurdle mounting a heavy Arca rail using leftover KRG hardware. Flat head weld nuts lay perfectly in the rail and the nub centered it in the slot. Problem is now I'm out & have nothing to mount weights with. 7 week lead time from Mcmaster............. Fuck!

View attachment 7785145

Have you tried Grainger or MSC?

 

[357Max]

Have you tried Grainger or MSC?

I'll give them a shot & maybe Fastenal.

Trying to have this 6 ARC ready for the new IWI gas gun series starting in April. It used to be the Geissele series, but Geissele opened their own range & I beleive will be hosting their own series this year. The more the better.

 

[jb0311]

Arisaka is great, I have no complaints. Their Key-Mod hardware is inverted. It's a great design that's proprietary and not for sale separately.

Pictured below is Arisaka next to Amazon key - mod nut.
View attachment 7785109

My frustration is trying to mount quality parts that do not come with hardware such as an Arca Rail and rail weights.

Even the AI Key-Mod rail weights (out of stock) use a proprietary fastener & AI does not sell Key- Mod fasteners.

Below is a picture of the Area 419 Key-Mod nut (presumably BCM) that came with the 419 Key-Mod Arca rail. That nut is 8-32 and in spec. Next to it is the Chinese Amazon nut. Clearly the Chinese nut (Metric) is out of spec. Doesn't fit the rail worth a shit. And no, Area 419 does not sell just the Key-Mod hardware.

BTW the 419 rail doesn't fit the Mega rail. I'm going to have to machine the key-mod locators.

Why can't I just buy in spec nuts anywhere?

Fuck Key-Mod!

View attachment 7785115

Ahh that's my bad I see now what you're talking about needing the actual hardware and not the attachments as a whole. I misunderstood.

 

[Annex Defense]

Oof, Mega and VLTOR, a man of fine taste

I’m very close with the Arisaka guys and even do some peripheral design tasks and admin work for them.

Last I remember discussing this issue, the nuts you have pictured above are manufactured by BCM and were updated to the captured design because of people losing the nuts after backing the screw off too far. As far as install goes, I think the captured Keymod nut update is easier and more foolproof than more prolific alternatives, but we know where the cards ended up falling with the RTZ and strength testing on the .mil side.

Shoot me a DM with your shipping info and I’ll see if I can lay hands on some of the old hardware in my own Annex stash of development parts and if I don’t I’ll see if Arisaka can help. Let me know how many you need, I can’t promise anything but I’ll give it my best when I’m back from SHOT.

 

[Annex Defense]

Also, for what it’s worth, in the last month or so Zev / Mega re-released those rails for both AR15 and large-frame / 308 rails in MLOK if we strike out.

 

[TheOE800]

Also, for what it’s worth, in the last month or so Zev / Mega re-released those rails for both AR15 and large-frame / 308 rails in MLOK if we strike out.

Not in 7075

 

[Annex Defense]

Not in 7075

Ouch. Good catch.

They sure have made a wreck of what was one of the best shops in the game, what a shame.

I did see that Mike Miller (iirc that’s his name), the founder of Mega, is back in the industry after his non-competition period ended and is collaborating with Jim Hodge and SOLGW on a new venture called “Icon Defense”. Fingers crossed they carry the torch from the old Mega days.

 

[E. Bryant]

What looks like keymod on AI rifles isn't keymod. It looks similar but from what I know it's proprietary to AI.

No idea how the AI system would work on true keymod slots

I haven't tried AI Key Slot hardware in the KeyMod system. Maybe I'll do an experiment this week.

Going the other way (KeyMod hardware in an AI Key Slot handguard) required modification to the nuts, and I generally wouldn't recommend it unless one is trying to mount a unique accessory not readily available in Key Slot.

 

[357Max]

Ouch. Good catch.

They sure have made a wreck of what was one of the best shops in the game, what a shame.

I did see that Mike Miller (iirc that’s his name), the founder of Mega, is back in the industry after his non-competition period ended and is collaborating with Jim Hodge and SOLGW on a new venture called “Icon Defense”. Fingers crossed they carry the torch from the old Mega days.

Icon Defense sounds like it’s worth keeping an eye on with those players involved.

PM inbound for hardware.
Thanks

 

[TheOE800]

Ouch. Good catch.

They sure have made a wreck of what was one of the best shops in the game, what a shame.

I did see that Mike Miller (iirc that’s his name), the founder of Mega, is back in the industry after his non-competition period ended and is collaborating with Jim Hodge and SOLGW on a new venture called “Icon Defense”. Fingers crossed they carry the torch from the old Mega days.

I doubt their new rail will be 7075 as the design of the rail itself (not the barrel nut) is taken from the recent Hodge offering that Zev/Mega produces in 6061. SOLGW is calling it the M89 Drivelock or some such. From what I hear, 7075 has been difficult to source given the global supply chain issues stretching back ~2 years.

 

[308pirate]

I doubt their new rail will be 7075 as the design of the rail itself (not the barrel nut) is taken from the recent Hodge offering that Zev/Mega produces in 6061.

WTF?

The exact aluminum alloy makes no difference to the actual machining other than making some feed and speed adjustments, and maybe using carbide instead of HSS inserts.

 

[308pirate]

?? speed, feed, and cutting head requiremnets are the very nature of machining differences. The cost of materials & process, defect rate, and material cost are the very factors that drive production decisions.

Programming changes is a one-time cost. And not a big one at that.

Raw material cost is the smallest percentage in a machined part's cost profile. Anodizing costs the same. As far as defect rates, well, gotta have that under control regardless of the raw material.

 

[TurboTrout]

I’ve been happy with BAD stuff

Home | Battle Arms Development

www.battlearmsdevelopment.com

 

[357Max]

I’ve been happy with BAD stuff

Home | Battle Arms Development

www.battlearmsdevelopment.com

Sure, if running M-lock!
I like the Centurion CMR’s for M-lock, but that’s not the topic of this thread.

Bad sell‘S nothing key-mod related AFAIK.

 

[TurboTrout]

Sure, if running M-lock!
I like the Centurion CMR’s for M-lock, but that’s not the topic of this thread.

Bad sell‘S nothing key-mod related AFAIK.

My bad.

Hmm, yeah, might be to change to the other side

 

[TheOE800]

WTF?

The exact aluminum alloy makes no difference to the actual machining other than making some feed and speed adjustments, and maybe using carbide instead of HSS inserts.

I’m not talking about the machining differences between 6061 and 7075, but Zev definitely cut some corners by making them out of 6061 when they re-released them, if only in the materials cost. The OG Wedge was designed with 7075 as the material spec in mind, the Hodge with 6061; my belief is the final products reflect the material specification through their design. They’re two very different rails insofar as their design beyond the barrel nut.

 

[TurboTrout]

I’m not talking about the machining differences between 6061 and 7075, but Zev definitely cut some corners by making them out of 6061 when they re-released them, if only in the materials cost. The OG Wedge was designed with 7075 as the material spec in mind, the Hodge with 6061; my belief is the final products reflect the material specification through their design. They’re two very different rails insofar as their design beyond the barrel nut.

Is it cheaper to work the softer 6000 series?

I know when it comes to building 80%s lots more of them are made of 6061 vs the better 7075

 

[Bravo6niner]

Maybe try Knights Armament?

 

[TheOE800]

Is it cheaper to work the softer 6000 series?

I don’t know and I’m not qualified to say. I am saying the material properties of 7075 and 6061 were in the designers’ minds and the rails reflect that. That’s all. I’m also saying that 7075 is more expensive to procure, but I’m not qualified to say that either.

 

[357Max]

Maybe try Knights Armament?

Good suggestion, but like everywhere else I’ve checked no Key-Mod hardware.

 

[308pirate]

my belief is the final products reflect the material specification through their design.

Is this based on professional experience in machining or even manufacturing?

 

[TheOE800]

Is this based on professional experience in machining or even manufacturing?

Literally said I wasn’t qualified to speak about machining or manufacturing which I’m not debating nor frankly care about. Have a good one, bud.

 

[308pirate]

Literally said I wasn’t qualified to speak about machining or manufacturing which I’m not debating nor frankly care about. Have a good one, bud.

You mean like the arfcom mouthbreathers debating about "billet" vs "forged"

LOL

 

[TheOE800]

You mean like the arfcom mouthbreathers debating about "billet" vs "forged"

LOL

LOL had to go back and edit that for added douche eh? You sure you don’t have a snobby Facebook group to admin or something? Maybe if you’d actually held either of the two rails in question you’d see the clear design differences, that’s ok go flex your big machine shop knowledge here on the Hide, bud.

 

[6.5SH]

Product Type - Replacement Parts - Page 1 - Midwest Industries, Inc.

www.midwestindustriesinc.com

 

[Yaremkiv]

It's Monolithic VLTOR fusion on a 6 ARC I'm building.
View attachment 7785084

The other rail is a Mega 7075 on a 20" 223W proof steel barreled DMR. I could sell that one but it is a really nice rigid rail.

View attachment 7785086

Just seems crazy to me that no one sells quality hardware aside from the proprietary stuff that comes with their own mounts.
The Arisaka set up is sweet.

Damn, that Mega Wedgelock is gold, I'd pay well over what used to be MSRP for it if it wasnt keymod.

 

[357Max]

Product Type - Replacement Parts - Page 1 - Midwest Industries, Inc.

www.midwestindustriesinc.com

Well son of bitch. Thank you.

I'd looked at those but on the product page it made no claims as to origin so I assumed it was repackaged Chinese crap.

On the link you posted it clearly states 100% Made in USA. Also Sadly out of stock. I went ahead and ordered a dozen along with some M-Lock hardware.

Also I found the double tab 10-32 weld nuts in small qty's in stock in Michigan at JHP fasteners so I ordered them in both SS & Carbon steel.

 

[6.5SH]

Wow, was in stock when I posted it.

 

[mewillis]

Maybe try Knights Armament?

Knights has completely divested themselves from keymod products, it's even hard to find the rail covers that were excellent for keymod.

 

[billm2067]

Hope this helps...

AR-STONER KeyMod Screw Nut Kit 5PK

Losing things is a part of life, but AR-Stoner has your back. The AR-Stoner KeyMod Screw and Nut Kit is a great kit to replace the screws that disappear...

www.midwayusa.com

 

[soflastg]

try area419 or grovtec