Hello! I recently had a local gunsmith spin me up a barrel for my first full custom build. It appears that the muzzle crown was poorly done with the initial taper not being concentric. Before i spend all the money on components breaking it in and developing a load, i want to know if this will affect to accuracy. I want this to be a half minute or better gun. Hoping to use your guys experience on whether this is a no go and needs redone or if she's good to shoot. Appreciate the help
- Thread starter Ohioguy47
- Start date
The external doesn’t really matter so long as where it lets go of the bullet is even
But that doesn’t look spectacular lol
But that doesn’t look spectacular lol
Shoot it and see how it does. That looks mediocre but as long as it shoots well who cares If it does not shoot well then chew him out
I've done better crowns with hand tools. This is a barrel I chopped with a hacksaw and cleaned up with a Brownells facing and chamfering tool set.
What you have can be cleaned up for sure though.
What you have can be cleaned up for sure though.
That looks sloppy, most smiths with solid reputations pay attention to the little details.
I can’t say much as I pay my “gunsmith” with liquor or other random shit but I think it should just be put back in the lathe and cleaned up with files and polished. I bet it will shoot just fine.
Most of the finishing is just to look pretty for pictures.
Most of the finishing is just to look pretty for pictures.
You always have to wonder about the concentricity of the work when the guy can’t even manage the basic details. That’s IDGAF level of work there.
Exactly!!! Cutting a decent looking crown is one of the easiest parts of the process. The threads also look pretty crappy. Makes you wonder how much care was put into some of the more detailed parts of the machine work.
The first thing to do is stop calling whoever did this a gunsmith.
That’s really bad, looks like he used a countersink for the crown and a die for the threads… What does the tenon look like?
Don’t fire him, shoot him.
More than likely a DeWalt cordless. I'm speculating but that crown looks like it was gone after with a brass crown lapping tool by someone that didn't know what they were doing.
All of that can probably be cleaned up on a lathe without having to chop the barrel back and start over.
@Ohioguy47 Is that a Hawk Hill barrel?
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Look up either an 82 or 90 degree multi flute countersink. Machine tool vendors sell them. My guess is that work was done either with a cordless drill or a tail stock that has a bunch of backlash on the feed screw.
-Your muzzle got to star in its own snuff film because of it.
Notice how the outer circumference isn't really round? This is because with a multi flute tool on a garbage setup it is virtually impossible to deliver a consistent feed pressure so that all the flutes engage the material equally. The tool starts to hop on top of the material. When it does engage, it gouges the snot out of it and the circumference goes to hell.
Will it shoot worth a darn? Bullets always tell the truth. Is it up to par? Ask your wallet...
If you'd like it fixed, I'd be happy to help.
C.
Some examples of a single point machined barrel crown.
-Your muzzle got to star in its own snuff film because of it.
Notice how the outer circumference isn't really round? This is because with a multi flute tool on a garbage setup it is virtually impossible to deliver a consistent feed pressure so that all the flutes engage the material equally. The tool starts to hop on top of the material. When it does engage, it gouges the snot out of it and the circumference goes to hell.
Will it shoot worth a darn? Bullets always tell the truth. Is it up to par? Ask your wallet...
If you'd like it fixed, I'd be happy to help.
C.
Some examples of a single point machined barrel crown.
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As a rifle builder of both LE and personal hunting firearms, that's poor workmanship and I certainly wouldn't happy with that as a builder.
It does beg for an "explanation" from the builder for sure. & a "redo" IMO.
As a rifle builder of both LE and personal hunting firearms, that's poor workmanship and I certainly wouldn't happy with that as a builder.
It does beg for an "explanation" from the builder for sure. & a "redo" IMO.
What barrel manufacturer? The threads and crown look like the stainless is porous. Maybe it's just dirty, or the way it was "machined".
100% you got a gomer to thread that. I’d stick an alignment rod in there with the can on and check it before ever pulling the trigger on a live round.
Then I’d find a new smitty…
Holy runout Batman!
Did that gunsmith also do the chambering? If so, I'd be borescoping it immediately to see if the leade contacts the lands evenly or if you have bad runout there too.
Did that gunsmith also do the chambering? If so, I'd be borescoping it immediately to see if the leade contacts the lands evenly or if you have bad runout there too.
Its called tear out. Material it literally being torn out of workpiece due to bad setup, tooling, speeds, feeds, etc.
I'd send it to LRI to be checked, not worth blowing your face or can off. I'd ask for a refund and that "smith" would never get anymore work from me.
No impact? Really. So that’s why it’s just as good to cut the muzzle with a hack saw?
Never heard any gunsmith say that.
OP - take it to a different…real… gunsmith and it can be easily cleaned up. Checking the chamber job this jamoke did would prob be well advised
Do what you should have done in the first place and take it somewhere with a good rep. LRI chimed in already so I'd send it there if I were you.
You are correct. Accuracy is dependent on the shooter. Precision is dependent on the equipment. A jacked up crown will negatively affect precision.
most people here wouldn't consider 1 moa good
Do rifle crowns matter? Does a crown affect accuracy? I find out with the help of my grinder…
Do rifle crowns matter? Does a crown affect accuracy? I think most of use would say yes. It seems intuitive that the crown, the last part of the rifle that touches the bullet before it leaves the…rifleshooter.com
Literally cut with a hacksaw and still putting up ~1moa groups
It would've been interesting to see a side by side of what the barrel in that article could do if he'd cleaned up the crown post cut, such as cut it down, shoot it ugly, clean up the crown, shoot another group and compare. If there was no significant change to the group size then it'd lend more credence to the belief that the crown doesn't matter all that much.
It's also worth noting that the author goes on to state that the crown can affect accuracy and that there'd be no way he'd do any load development or go to a match with the barrel cut like that, which I imagine are things the OP might like to do with his barrel. The article not withstanding, in the context of the OP's issue, the crown certainly matters.
It's also worth noting that the author goes on to state that the crown can affect accuracy and that there'd be no way he'd do any load development or go to a match with the barrel cut like that, which I imagine are things the OP might like to do with his barrel. The article not withstanding, in the context of the OP's issue, the crown certainly matters.
No self respecting gunsmith uses a Dremel. The really good ones use a Foredom because Dremels are too slow. If it doesn't have a foot control for speed it isn't a real flexible shaft grinder. I use mine for everything from gunsmithing, to dental work, to tune ups, and in the kitchen.
I shot in a smallbore league in Montana for years. One of the best shooters in the league shot an old Winchester 52 in a Freeland stock. Many times I saw him leaning on his rifle with the muzzle on a concrete floor. I asked him one time if he was worried about ruining the crown and his accuracy. His response was "It's what's on the inside of the barrel that matters, not what's on the outside." When I moved to VA he was still shooting that rifle and kicking ass with it.
I was at a high power match one time when my buddy set his rifle on the tailgate of his truck. He was getting his stuff out and some how knocked the rifle off of the tailgate. It landed right on the muzzle and pushed a nice burr into the bore. I cleaned up the burr with a small file and uniformed the opening using a ball bearing and some emory cloth. He won that match, which was not unusual for him to win, but he did it with a rifle that had an emergency repair to the crown. I don't think he ever had the barrel recrowned.
All that being said, the crown in the OP photos sucks.
Impressive, but have you figured out how to use it in the bedroom?
Send it to LRI. They have maintained the highest level reputation for many years for good reasons. Personally, my overall health is too important to take unnecessary risks with no upside. Right now, it is a fairly cheap lesson learned. Doing something stupid will make it more expensive.
Asymmetric muzzle blast can definitely have an impact on dispersion, but it's totally dependent on the level of yaw that is induced and how well the bullet recovers from it, though. May or may not materialize as bad groups.
That's most definitely backyard level execution, though.
That's most definitely backyard level execution, though.
Same author, same article you just posted.Do rifle crowns matter? Does a crown affect accuracy? I find out with the help of my grinder…
Do rifle crowns matter? Does a crown affect accuracy? I think most of use would say yes. It seems intuitive that the crown, the last part of the rifle that touches the bullet before it leaves the…
Literally cut with a hacksaw and still putting up ~1moa groups
"If you dig around you can find tests like this one from Shooting Sports USA. While it is worth noting the data set they collected is not included in the article, the author contends that crown damage will affect accuracy. This seems to make sense."
"Am I shooting 1 and 2″ groups? No, but I’m not about to do any load development on this gun. Would I want to take a rifle with these crowns to a match? No way. But it sure is interesting to see how well a tube like this can shoot!"
It would be interesting to have a baseline of a nice crown by which to conduct a test like this and see the results. What I get out of this is there is a point once a crown is jacked up it won't start hitting the streetlights while aiming at the target.
Also, what about 1000yds? Are the jackets "jacked up" enough to make a difference at 1000yds not seen at the 100yd mark?
No way can I conclude from this article that crown condition has no impact on "accuracy" (Precision)
Not a 5 round group. 30 rounds and holy shit its a laser beam!
I just want him to install it, shoot it, and report lol
Our guy is probably going to open his phone later after work to like 60+ alerts on this post and be like "WTF did I do?"
Let’s say the crown is jacked,
Doesn’t matter
The bullets need the time to go to sleep anyways. Just because it shoots 3-4 moa at 100 yards doesn’t mean those won’t tighten up to 1 moa at 1,000. You know, science and shit
Doesn’t matter
The bullets need the time to go to sleep anyways. Just because it shoots 3-4 moa at 100 yards doesn’t mean those won’t tighten up to 1 moa at 1,000. You know, science and shit
I could certainly be mistaken, but I thought that the main reason for barrel crowns was to clean up and protect the end of the ID of the barrel. Plus they look good. My understanding is that if you can perfectly part the barrel to the desired length, and never bang it into anything, neither of which are guaranteed by a long shot, that a crown would not make it more accurate?
If it hasn't already been brought up, you should check if the muzzle threads were indexed off the bore or the OD of the barrel. The bevel of the crown is good indicator of what was done, but not absolute. This will also become apparent if you use a suppressor or certain brakes without checking bore alignment.
Genuinely curious,
Is that bevel or whatever you’d call it between the shoulder and threads normal? Most I’ve seen come straight down at base of threads or even have a slight shoulder there. Seems it would create a weak spot thinning the barrel like that if not needed
Is that bevel or whatever you’d call it between the shoulder and threads normal? Most I’ve seen come straight down at base of threads or even have a slight shoulder there. Seems it would create a weak spot thinning the barrel like that if not needed
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