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Does progressive and precision go together

pickpick

pickpick

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jan 25, 2008
762
2
Jonesboro,Ar.
I have been reloading on my RCBS Turret press for a few years and I'm considering going to a dillon. I reload to a tenth of a grain using a chargemaster. It seems to stay as accurate as I can drive the firearm. I do shoot F/tr but, I shoot it against myself and I only get to make about three to five matches a year. The rest of the shooting is done out on the farm and, I'm only looking for MOA. I'm just needing to speed up my reloading process since I seem to have more range time than time at home to reload. Thanks for any help and opinions on the matter.
 
Re: Does progressive and precision go together

Lots of threads that get into a lot of detail on this topic, so if you want to know all the ins and outs and what-have-yous, please search around.

The short answer is yes, they go together just fine. I load my rifle ammo on a Dillon 650, and can achieve better than 1/2 MOA.

My method:

Station 1: Bushing/Bump die
Station 2: Sinclair expander/neck ID sizer
Station 3: Charge
Station 4: Seat
Station 5: Compartor final seating

I have a funnel that sits in the tool head, and when the ram is raised, the case engages the funnel and lifts it up. I use a scale to measure each charge.

Hope this helps.
 
Re: Does progressive and precision go together

I have a Dillon 550B and have reloaded with it for years. I load progressive for my pistol loads but I don't on rifle. I find the powder measurer on the Dillon is close but it does throw some off at times so I stopped using it that way. I use a separate powder thrower for my loads - Redding BR. I deprime and reszie using one die set and them after trimming and cleaning I use the last two dies for bullet and crimp if I am crimping (usually not). You can use as a progressive but I would weigh my loads afterwards to ensure I am consistent with the reloads.
 
Re: Does progressive and precision go together

I have used a Dillon 650 to load over 20,000 match and varmint rounds. Yes precision and mass production (Dillon) are compatible especially if you only need 1 MOA. Here are the things that I have found make the biggest difference:

1. Do a ladder test to find a sweet spot where powder varions do not matter as much.
2. Use match seating dies
3. Use a powder that pours nicely (note ball powder will pour to +/-.1 grains in the Dillon measure)
4. Use a good benchrest powder measure and funnel if the powder does not pour as well. You can always use a funnel as described by turbo54. I use a funnel and Harrels poweder measure for Varget in a .308 load. This slows the process down by 1/2 but I did get some really consistent ammo.

Good shooting ...
 
Re: Does progressive and precision go together

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark S</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Achieve better than 1/2" MOA how far out? </div></div>

Out to 300 yards. Seems like my ability to resolve the target through my optic and hold dead on begins to deteriorate after 300 or so. I'm sure wind is a portion of this, but I definitely don't "feel" as if my hold is as good at longer ranges.

I have shot .25 MOA groups at 300 yards with ammo I've put together on my Dillon 650.

60 shots at 600 yards (F class 3x600) will generally net me about a 1.5 MOA maximum spread.
 
Re: Does progressive and precision go together

pickpick,

To give you some more detail...

For varmint loads - If I find a bullet/powder/primer combination that will shoot 1/2 MOA with Ball powder or small kernel powder I just dump the brass, powder in and start loading (6-800 rounds per hour).

Once finished I put the loaded rounds in a Dillon vibratory case cleaner w walnut shells for 5 minutes to get the Dillon case lube off.

For Match loads (Palma, F-Class, any/any) beyond 600 yards I will pull the Dillon powder measure out of station #2 and replace with a funnel from Scott Medesha.

I then drop the powder charges from a Harrels Benchrest powder measure and weigh each on a redding balance beam scale. This greatly changes the normal routine and slows the process down to about 1/2 normal speed (300 rounds/ hour) but I have made ammo cans full of .308's that shoot as well as the individual hand loads.

I first started doing this for a long range precision rifle course that required you to bring 800 rounds. I was pinched for time and had to use the Dillon. At the class, they had us chrono our ammo. The rounds that I loaded this way on the Dillon had an extreme velocity spread of only 8 fps. This stuff shot great!

Also locally there is a Juniors Rifle team that is sponsored by the Boulder Rifle club. All of the ammo that they use in competition is loaded on Dillon 550's with the Dillon powder measure using "enhanced" and polished powder dies (drop tubes) and redding match seating dies. Nothing is hand-weighed but the ammo shoots sub 1/2 MOA out of the Rock River AR-15 national match guns that they use.

For experimenting and doing small lots (<50) you are better off hand loading using a single stage press.

Good shooting ...
 
Re: Does progressive and precision go together

It's the reloader, his dies, components and his loading skills/methods that obtain high accuracy, not the press. NO serious BR shooter uses threaded dies and presses but they are striving for groups in the "ones". For those of us who use threaded tools, the press is perhaps the least critical part of our kit. IMHO.

That said, and for most of us, it's probably a bit easier to do high quality work on a single stage press of some type. But, if I were into loading 800 rounds for a single match I'd sure use a progresive without worry.
 
Re: Does progressive and precision go together

Thanks again. I believe a progressive is in my near future. I have nearly 3000 pieces of 308 and about the same number of 223 piled up in boxes waiting to be loaded. I almost dread having to do that many on my turret press used as a single stage. The powder drop would be what I would worry about the most. I only have the rcbs drop that came with a rock chucker kit and the charge master combo. I like the looks of the dillon but, I can get a hornady LNL from a wholesaler for $386. I could use the money I save on the better powder drop and link kits. Thanks again for the advice.
 
Re: Does progressive and precision go together

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark S</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Achieve better than 1/2" MOA how far out? </div></div>

Out to 300 yards. Seems like my ability to resolve the target through my optic and hold dead on begins to deteriorate after 300 or so. I'm sure wind is a portion of this, but I definitely don't "feel" as if my hold is as good at longer ranges.

I have shot .25 MOA groups at 300 yards with ammo I've put together on my Dillon 650.

60 shots at 600 yards (F class 3x600) will generally net me about a 1.5 MOA maximum spread. </div></div>

That's a great score at 600 with progressive loaded, a 600 with 3X beats a 599 with 59 every time.
 
Re: Does progressive and precision go together

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark S</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark S</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Achieve better than 1/2" MOA how far out? </div></div>

Out to 300 yards. Seems like my ability to resolve the target through my optic and hold dead on begins to deteriorate after 300 or so. I'm sure wind is a portion of this, but I definitely don't "feel" as if my hold is as good at longer ranges.

I have shot .25 MOA groups at 300 yards with ammo I've put together on my Dillon 650.

60 shots at 600 yards (F class 3x600) will generally net me about a 1.5 MOA maximum spread. </div></div>

That's a great score at 600 with progressive loaded, a 600 with 3X beats a 599 with 59 every time. </div></div>

Unfortunately, the F class target's 10 ring is 1 MOA... So my ~1.5 MOA performance usually leaves me somewhere in the 570s. Earlier this month I shot a 3x600 and my strings were 180-2, 197-9, 198-7.... If only I had buckled down on my fundamentals for my first string, I could of perhaps scored in the mid 590s! But, we know that "if the dog hadn't stop to take a shit, he woulda caught the rabbit"...

Back on topic: Get the progressive and spend your precious free time shooting, not loading. Seriously, this year I've really gotten on board with that mantra, and my scores and shooting are MUCH better than before, when I used to agonize over my ammo. Its very frustrating to show up to a match/event with "perfect" ammo, and then fire them into the wrong place... My $0.02

Good luck!
 
Re: Does progressive and precision go together

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark S</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark S</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Achieve better than 1/2" MOA how far out? </div></div>

Out to 300 yards. Seems like my ability to resolve the target through my optic and hold dead on begins to deteriorate after 300 or so. I'm sure wind is a portion of this, but I definitely don't "feel" as if my hold is as good at longer ranges.

I have shot .25 MOA groups at 300 yards with ammo I've put together on my Dillon 650.

60 shots at 600 yards (F class 3x600) will generally net me about a 1.5 MOA maximum spread. </div></div>

That's a great score at 600 with progressive loaded, a 600 with 3X beats a 599 with 59 every time. </div></div>

Unfortunately, the F class target's 10 ring is 1 MOA... So my ~1.5 MOA performance usually leaves me somewhere in the 570s. Earlier this month I shot a 3x600 and my strings were 180-2, 197-9, 198-7.... If only I had buckled down on my fundamentals for my first string, I could of perhaps scored in the mid 590s! But, we know that "if the dog hadn't stop to take a shit, he woulda caught the rabbit"...

Back on topic: Get the progressive and spend your precious free time shooting, not loading. Seriously, this year I've really gotten on board with that mantra, and my scores and shooting are MUCH better than before, when I used to agonize over my ammo. Its very frustrating to show up to a match/event with "perfect" ammo, and then fire them into the wrong place... My $0.02

Good luck! </div></div>

I just chimed in on post. I have tried with 2 different 1050's and a 650 with the best of everything I could think of over the years along with machine mods to smooth cycle's out and was never pleased with the results so back to a single stage. I do load my blaster ammo on 1050's and they are the nut's for that. I do enjoy loading on a SS but I'm a loose flywheel with a lot of spare time.
 
Re: Does progressive and precision go together

Case prep on a 1050. Mine has a motor and sensors, and just requires you to be in the same room to load the case feeder.

3x charge masters dumping powder. Seems to be optimal in there is always a charge weighed to pour into the next case with no waiting.

Seat on a forster coax.

It's pretty fast. Ammo is as good as the components used.
But it's not cheap.
 
Re: Does progressive and precision go together

So guys that use these just go with out case trimming?
 
Re: Does progressive and precision go together

I have a Dillon 650. This is the way I do it for my precision rifle loads.

I have 2 seperate toolheads. One with just a sizer/deprimer. I run my brass through it and just do sizing/depriming. Then I throw my brass into a tumbler. After that I do any trimming on the brass that may be needed.

Then I run my brass through the machine with no toolhead at all. I just prime all the brass.

Afer all the brass is primed, I slap in the second toolhead that has only the powder dispenser die (position 2)and the seating die (position 4).

So then it works like this. 1 at a time, I charge them at the powder dispenser (position 2) puropsely undercharged by about a grain. I then take them out one at a time after they are charged, weigh the powder, and then trickle the rest in by hand. Then you can put them back onto the press one at a time using the seating die (position 4) and seat the bullet.

It is a sort of way of using a progressive loader in a non-progressive way. It works for me and I can't see why I am not producing as good as quality as on a single stage press. I can produce VERY accurate ammo this way.

It is more time consuming and more involved (but no more so than with a single stage), not to mention the extra expense of a second toolhead, but to me it is worth it.

And for loading pistol ammo...you can't beat a progressive loader!!!

Hope I explained how I do this so it makes sense.

Anyway...just my .02

 
Re: Does progressive and precision go together

I use a 550B, and use a modified progressive technique.

Cases are resized and decapped in a single stage, then tumbled clean of lube. After, each case is visually inspected to ensure there are no tumbler crumbs blocking flash holes. On occasion, they are then primed and held aside as prepped and ready brass, or;

Next, cases are primed and charged, but each charge is then weighed and adjusted to a norm.

I adjust the measure to consistently provide a slightly heavier-than-needed charge, then pinch a bit out of the scale tray and finger-trickle back enough to make up the right charge. Excess propellent gets dumped back into the top of the measure canister, and the weighed charge is dumped back into the case using a funnel and drop tube implement.

Cases are each reinserted after weighing and run through the seater.

My ammo is only as good as the load data, but it is as good as that data as loaded in most other manners. The key with the Dillon presses is to adjust up the press components so they operate with minimum slop. The better this task is done, the better the handloading outcome.

Greg
 
Re: Does progressive and precision go together

For precision loads I prefer one round at a time. Case prep, priming, loading the powder and setting the bullet. These is what I do for match grade ammo, for practice or just busting caps, I have a dillon 550B. My precision loads I use a RCBS Rock Chucker.
 
Re: Does progressive and precision go together

After reading through the replies I got to thinking. Could I run my turret as a progressive? Only it be the dies moving not the case. Say I could find a manual throw powder dispenser that is accurate and put it between my sizing and seater die. Size, deprime and prime turn head, drop powder, turn head then seat bullet. The catch is an accurate powder throw. Think this would work? Thanks
 
Re: Does progressive and precision go together

I dont understand why you guys using progressives arent using them "fully progressive". I have a casefeeder, so i never have to manipulate a case by hand. Its great. Guess i just dont see what youre achieving by going slower and not using it fully progressive.
 
Re: Does progressive and precision go together

Pickpick...by mounting the measure on the turret head you induce vibration variations into the weight of the powder column. Try it...you just have to keep the vibrations the same each time. Hard to do. JMHO
 
Re: Does progressive and precision go together

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I dont understand why you guys using progressives arent using them "fully progressive". I have a casefeeder, so i never have to manipulate a case by hand. Its great. Guess i just dont see what youre achieving by going slower and not using it fully progressive. </div></div>

For pistol loads and .223 ammo (with sperical powder) I do use it "fully progressive" and it's great. But the powder dispensers don't meter very well especially with extruded powder. For my precision loads I need exact powder measurements so I need to take each one out and measure each powder charge.
 
Re: Does progressive and precision go together

FNP, thanks for the heads up, I hadn't thought of that. I guess I'll end up putting a progressive next to my turret press. Thanks everybody for the info.
 
Re: Does progressive and precision go together

I've come to a similar dilemma. I only shoot gas guns now (.308 and .223). I have done some single stage reloading on my Lee single stage, but really only for match rounds out of my bolt guns (all have been sold now).

Anyways, match grade rounds have become too expensive for me to keep shooting at the pace I am currently shooting at. I really only need about a 1 moa round. So I have been thinking of getting a progressive press.

From the reading I have done, it sound like most of you guys are using Dillon's. I am looking at the 650, and the Hornady LNL, any reason to go with one over the other? I plan to use Redding dies. How are the powder measures on each? Does it come down to tool head versus the LNL bushing system?

Sorry if I hijacked this thread, but I think they are along the same lines.
 
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