Here goes. I have an sps tactical (20" 308) that is currently zeroed at 100yds with 168 fgmm. I am going to a 600yd match this saturday. This will be the first time taking it past 300yd. I have a few m118lr rounds that I will be using for this occasion. My questions are, how many mils do i need to come up to regain my 100yd zero with the heavier bullet, how many mils will I need to dial to hopefully be on the paper at 600yds. Also I need to load up a few more rounds, what is the charge of RL15 that is used in the m118lr.
Range Report dope question
Re: dope question
Just a few thoughts.
The only one of your questions that can be answered directly is the come up at 600 yds to get on paper. Try about 4.8mil, and depending on your muzzle velocity, altitude and atmospheric conditions it should be within a couple clicks.
Going from 168gr to 175gr does not mean there is just a specific amount if come up to re-zero at 100yds. Some rifles and barrel harmonics will shoot the 175gr load lower at 100yds some higher, some will shoot the different load to the right or left. Basically, the only way to know is to shoot it at 100yds and zero the scope.
Reloading data: Again, you'll have to experiment a bit to match the velocity perfect. Every rifle is different.
Just a few thoughts.
The only one of your questions that can be answered directly is the come up at 600 yds to get on paper. Try about 4.8mil, and depending on your muzzle velocity, altitude and atmospheric conditions it should be within a couple clicks.
Going from 168gr to 175gr does not mean there is just a specific amount if come up to re-zero at 100yds. Some rifles and barrel harmonics will shoot the 175gr load lower at 100yds some higher, some will shoot the different load to the right or left. Basically, the only way to know is to shoot it at 100yds and zero the scope.
Reloading data: Again, you'll have to experiment a bit to match the velocity perfect. Every rifle is different.
Re: dope question
It's great you're trying to better your skills and props on going to a match inorder to try to do so, as I haven't confidence in myself to try one yet. But I'm not sure a match is the best time/place to be trying to reach 600 for the first time. Unless you have very limited expectations of yourself at this match, I'd try to get to 400 first, then 500 then 600. See how your rifle/ammo/shooter combination works at those increasing levels first.
As with the ammo, considering that the match is this SATURDAY, you will have no where near the time to load up a trial batch of rounds with different charges and send them in order to see how they perform at extended ranges.
I'm not trying to be a jerk, it just seems like this plan wasn't really thought out the greatest. If nothing else, hopefully at this match you'll learn what some of the other shooters do in order to PREPARE/PRACTICE and put in the work BEFORE a match. Sorry if I've offended you my fellow shooter, but I feel you should know better, myself only being a moderate shooter.
Best of luck on saturday and please post how it was as I sincerely hope you are able to prove me wrong. GOOD LUCK!!
It's great you're trying to better your skills and props on going to a match inorder to try to do so, as I haven't confidence in myself to try one yet. But I'm not sure a match is the best time/place to be trying to reach 600 for the first time. Unless you have very limited expectations of yourself at this match, I'd try to get to 400 first, then 500 then 600. See how your rifle/ammo/shooter combination works at those increasing levels first.
As with the ammo, considering that the match is this SATURDAY, you will have no where near the time to load up a trial batch of rounds with different charges and send them in order to see how they perform at extended ranges.
I'm not trying to be a jerk, it just seems like this plan wasn't really thought out the greatest. If nothing else, hopefully at this match you'll learn what some of the other shooters do in order to PREPARE/PRACTICE and put in the work BEFORE a match. Sorry if I've offended you my fellow shooter, but I feel you should know better, myself only being a moderate shooter.
Best of luck on saturday and please post how it was as I sincerely hope you are able to prove me wrong. GOOD LUCK!!
Re: dope question
You are correct. This was not properly thought out as I just found out about the match. My intention is to go and learn. But as I know from experience every time I go to one of these and didnt bring my firearm I wish I would've. This started with IDPA matches. So far there has been no shame in shooting at a match no matter how well or how not well I do. Every one seems more than helpful and rather willing to further my learning. I could just shoot the 168's but I only have one case left and they are all vaccuum packed. I do however have plently of brass, primers and 175smk's. So it was just a thought. But I'm going either way to participate or not but either way to learn.
No offense taken. Yes I should know better (about so many things) lol
You are correct. This was not properly thought out as I just found out about the match. My intention is to go and learn. But as I know from experience every time I go to one of these and didnt bring my firearm I wish I would've. This started with IDPA matches. So far there has been no shame in shooting at a match no matter how well or how not well I do. Every one seems more than helpful and rather willing to further my learning. I could just shoot the 168's but I only have one case left and they are all vaccuum packed. I do however have plently of brass, primers and 175smk's. So it was just a thought. But I'm going either way to participate or not but either way to learn.
No offense taken. Yes I should know better (about so many things) lol
Re: dope question
Don't be overly concerned about performance the first time out.
Additionally, using M118LR ammo that is in short supply will only teach you things that won't be relevent when you get back to working with the 168's. Me, I'd just stick with the 168's for 600yd, they should be quite adequate at that distance. What's more, unless the facility has distances longer than 600yd available, I'd wait until I had access to one before I even gave anything more than the 168's a second thought.
I remember my first time at 600, coming off a maximum of 300yd. It was a gas. I was using my Garand on Range 15 at Ft. Dix. I was all concerned about 175gr handloads, and had lost sight of the key point: you go, you do, you smile.
...And that's the name of that tune...
Greg
Don't be overly concerned about performance the first time out.
Additionally, using M118LR ammo that is in short supply will only teach you things that won't be relevent when you get back to working with the 168's. Me, I'd just stick with the 168's for 600yd, they should be quite adequate at that distance. What's more, unless the facility has distances longer than 600yd available, I'd wait until I had access to one before I even gave anything more than the 168's a second thought.
I remember my first time at 600, coming off a maximum of 300yd. It was a gas. I was using my Garand on Range 15 at Ft. Dix. I was all concerned about 175gr handloads, and had lost sight of the key point: you go, you do, you smile.
...And that's the name of that tune...
Greg
Re: dope question
Actually known distance at this particular range is 1000yds. So, maybe one day I'll try that. My thought process is simply this. I know that my rifle groups m118lr rather tight just not at my zero. So if I load up some duplicates of that round would it not be somewhat safe to expect close to the same performance
Actually known distance at this particular range is 1000yds. So, maybe one day I'll try that. My thought process is simply this. I know that my rifle groups m118lr rather tight just not at my zero. So if I load up some duplicates of that round would it not be somewhat safe to expect close to the same performance
Re: dope question
Just what kinda match?
If it's 600 yards prone SF on the mid-range targets, you probably have 2 sighters plus 20 shots per match string and 22 minutes to fire them all. Plenty of time even to wait for wind!
Just calculate your come-ups on JBM for even a reasonably-estimated velocity, don't forget altitude and temperature, and dial it in. You'll be almost guaranteed to be on paper, and if not, your scorer should be able to tell you if it went over or kicked up gravel in front of the butts. Just ask him or her to watch your trace before you fire.
If it's a tactical/steel match, do the same but beg for as much detail from your spotter as you can get.
But zero with your chose load at 100 first so you at least come up from the right impact point.
IMO, there's no need to use 175s at only 600 unless the wind is over 15 and variable, or your rifle shoots twice as tight with them as with 168s.
You're going into this with a good attitude, so don't fret too much. And if you really want to save those 168s, just load and shoot your 175s. ZERO (and chrono if you can, OR fire without correction at 300 to back into a velocity) TOMORROW, though.
Someone here has a sig line with something like "there are no good ideas the night before a match". I've fired smallbore and highpower matches off and on since 1982, and believe me, there's wisdom in that aphorism.
I'm glad we don't have to TELL you to enjoy!
Best of luck AND skill to you, though.
Just what kinda match?
If it's 600 yards prone SF on the mid-range targets, you probably have 2 sighters plus 20 shots per match string and 22 minutes to fire them all. Plenty of time even to wait for wind!
Just calculate your come-ups on JBM for even a reasonably-estimated velocity, don't forget altitude and temperature, and dial it in. You'll be almost guaranteed to be on paper, and if not, your scorer should be able to tell you if it went over or kicked up gravel in front of the butts. Just ask him or her to watch your trace before you fire.
If it's a tactical/steel match, do the same but beg for as much detail from your spotter as you can get.
But zero with your chose load at 100 first so you at least come up from the right impact point.
IMO, there's no need to use 175s at only 600 unless the wind is over 15 and variable, or your rifle shoots twice as tight with them as with 168s.
You're going into this with a good attitude, so don't fret too much. And if you really want to save those 168s, just load and shoot your 175s. ZERO (and chrono if you can, OR fire without correction at 300 to back into a velocity) TOMORROW, though.
Someone here has a sig line with something like "there are no good ideas the night before a match". I've fired smallbore and highpower matches off and on since 1982, and believe me, there's wisdom in that aphorism.
I'm glad we don't have to TELL you to enjoy!
Best of luck AND skill to you, though.
Re: dope question
Dear Lord,
I pray these things. I pray for the ability shut up, listen and learn. I pray that I may start learning from other's mistakes. I pray for a place to apply what I have learned in order to practice before I get to a match. I pray these things earnestly for I fear that I will need the skill of marksmanship long befor I am ready. AMEN
Seriously though. I long for a place that I can routinely practice my shooting skills.
Dear Lord,
I pray these things. I pray for the ability shut up, listen and learn. I pray that I may start learning from other's mistakes. I pray for a place to apply what I have learned in order to practice before I get to a match. I pray these things earnestly for I fear that I will need the skill of marksmanship long befor I am ready. AMEN
Seriously though. I long for a place that I can routinely practice my shooting skills.
Re: dope question
If you want to shoot the 175's my suggestion would be to load enough of your handloads to shoot the entire match. You don't have the time to make sure they match the m118. You will need the consistancy at 600. Load a few that you research to match the m118, go shoot a few at your range for zero, load enough for match and enjoy.YMMV
Rob
If you want to shoot the 175's my suggestion would be to load enough of your handloads to shoot the entire match. You don't have the time to make sure they match the m118. You will need the consistancy at 600. Load a few that you research to match the m118, go shoot a few at your range for zero, load enough for match and enjoy.YMMV
Rob
Re: dope question
Ok, I went ahead and shot the 168 fgmm. I shot two relays and one four man team for a total of 66 rounds. I scored four X's and multiple 10's. My high score was a 178 if I recall correctly. My main goal was to simply stay on the paper though so I am satisfied with my first attempt. Now, my question is since I had to dial in 5.1 mils elevation at 600yds what do I need to dial at 1000yds to be on paper?
Ok, I went ahead and shot the 168 fgmm. I shot two relays and one four man team for a total of 66 rounds. I scored four X's and multiple 10's. My high score was a 178 if I recall correctly. My main goal was to simply stay on the paper though so I am satisfied with my first attempt. Now, my question is since I had to dial in 5.1 mils elevation at 600yds what do I need to dial at 1000yds to be on paper?
Re: dope question
Probably between 11.2 and 11.6 depending on a lot of things.
Probably between 11.2 and 11.6 depending on a lot of things.
Re: dope question
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skep_tic1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[snip]
Now, my question is since I had to dial in 5.1 mils elevation at 600yds what do I need to dial at 1000yds to be on paper? </div></div>
As Marisa Tomei or whatever her name was said in "My Cousin Vinny", that question is impossible to answer. At least accurately.
What was your come-up from 100 to 600?
And, was this an F-Class on those ittybitty targets, or an NRA Highpower slowfire prone on the MR target?
Thanks!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skep_tic1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[snip]
Now, my question is since I had to dial in 5.1 mils elevation at 600yds what do I need to dial at 1000yds to be on paper? </div></div>
As Marisa Tomei or whatever her name was said in "My Cousin Vinny", that question is impossible to answer. At least accurately.
What was your come-up from 100 to 600?
And, was this an F-Class on those ittybitty targets, or an NRA Highpower slowfire prone on the MR target?
Thanks!
Re: dope question
I forgot:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just calculate your come-ups on JBM for even a reasonably-estimated velocity, don't forget altitude and temperature, and dial it in. You'll be almost guaranteed to be on paper, and if not, your scorer should be able to tell you if it went over or kicked up gravel in front of the butts. Just ask him or her to watch your trace before you fire.</div></div>
I'd rather not run separate come-ups for every 1,000 feet elevation.
Altitude, temperature, and humidity. Really wet can make a difference worth noting, as compared to really dry.
I forgot:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just calculate your come-ups on JBM for even a reasonably-estimated velocity, don't forget altitude and temperature, and dial it in. You'll be almost guaranteed to be on paper, and if not, your scorer should be able to tell you if it went over or kicked up gravel in front of the butts. Just ask him or her to watch your trace before you fire.</div></div>
I'd rather not run separate come-ups for every 1,000 feet elevation.
Altitude, temperature, and humidity. Really wet can make a difference worth noting, as compared to really dry.
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