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????? DPMS or Armalite SASS .308 ?????

bigjohnintexas

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 11, 2008
127
0
Somerville, TX
My buddy and I are both looking for new gas-guns. He has to buy from one person that he trades with. He can get either gun, but the dealer's distributor told my buddy's dealer that my buddy definitely did not want the DPMS SASS. He stated that the DPMS is an inferior gun to the Armalite and that if he was going to spend that kind of money, he should go with the Armalite.

I was going to buy the DPMS SASS and so was my buddy, but now he wants the Armalite SASS. I have a bunch of friends that own DPMS rifles and they are all happy with theirs. They are also cheaper than the Armalite, and include flip-up sights. However, if the Armalite SASS is better, I will buy it.

Is there something that changed with DPMS that made their quality less than it use to be, or is this distributor blowing smoke? I was planning on ordering one or the other by next week, so any intelligent information on the matter is welcome.
 
Re: ????? DPMS or Armalite SASS .308 ?????

Although I can't speak for the DPMS rifle, I have had some expierience with the Armalite SASS. I ordered one from Armalite to T&E for my dept. when they first came out. They sent the whole package, with scope, case, bi-pod, and a "fake" suppressor. They said they didn't have a real suppressor available at that time. Why they even make a fake suppressor is beyond me. I was really excited when it came and it looked and felt like a well built machine.
At the range, I was less than impressed. It was a very inconsistant shooter. As much as I tried, I could not troubleshoot the problem. It also was way too much money for what you get. We were looking at replacing our department's bolt guns with semi-auto's, but could not justify the cost when we could build a better bolt gun for less.
We could have just gotten a bad "early" gun. Maybe with some tweaking it could have been better. Or maybe I wasn't doing my part behind the trigger. First impressions, however, go a long way.
If you have your heart set on a semi-auto, go for it. Though you might be able to find a less expensive one that shoots better.

For what it's worth.
 
Re: ????? DPMS or Armalite SASS .308 ?????

If you want a DPMS get one built buy GAP or Patriot Arms. It will pretty much cost the same as a Armalite SASS. Plus you know you will be getting a quality built rifle.



 
Re: ????? DPMS or Armalite SASS .308 ?????

I had the opportunity to test the current ArmaLite SASS two weeks ago. (Warning, I am an ArmaLite bigot, I like them a lot.)

The rifle came in a suitcase-looking case and after assembling it, I got down to some serious shooting with 168 and 175 Black Hills and some FGMM 175. I had some problem with the magazi,e but the rifle shot very well. I got some very good 5-shot groups out of it. I do not know if I would pay that much money for such a rifle, I would probably build one with a better barrel but this one is completely assembled. I do seem to remember that it did have a folding BUIS.

I also shot a DPMS, but not the SASS, and it was impressed with that rifle also.
 
Re: ????? DPMS or Armalite SASS .308 ?????

I have an Armalite AR-10 T (I know, SASS thread...) but if I could do it again, I would not buy it. I can shoot good 5 shot groups with it, but its hard work to do so. I've shot other .308 ARs they were "easier" to shoot good groups with. The gun shoots good groups, but its not consistent.(I guess it could theoretically be operator error, but I doubt that. My other guns don't do this.)

I've also had feeding problems and a jam or three from the relatively few rounds through it. I clean and oil it etc. and it still doesn't work right. I am not pleased with it.

I think that Armalite is just trading on their name now and don't have the product to justify their prices.
 
Re: ????? DPMS or Armalite SASS .308 ?????

I have had my AR10T for 2 yrs now. Mostly FGMM 168's down the tube. NO jams, firing problems what so ever. I wasn't very happy with my shooting at first. Actually pissed.
(For what it is worth, I had been shooting bolt guns everyweekend for a couple of yrs prior to running this AR10T).

Dug it out of the safe and cranked it back up. This time shooting out to 500m a lot.

Went back to 100yrds to check zero and to just see what it did. I have some nice 5 shot groups, and awesome 3 shot groups. At 500m it was well below MOA.

I spoke with a guy that is in the, well service. Told me they couldn't get consistant grouping unless they waited about 45sec to 1 min between rounds. We talked about this a lot and what it come down to was that they were less than impressed, but they were really wanting bolt gun consistancy. I asked how they shot on out? He said very well. Everything shot MOA, except with shooter error. I asked him about the DPMS, and he said they shot them some, but liked the Armalite better. Lighter, and a bit more consistant. He said they put at least 1,000 rounds down the 5 rifles tested.

Asked him if they tested the SASS Armalite. Yep was his answer, and he said they switched back to there AR10T's right away. Said they looked about the same as far as handguards and PRS, but the bbl must be a bit more "stable".

Mine won't perform with my factory barreled 700P in .308 (with handloads), but does definitly shoot MOA or better at least to 500m with FGMM.

FWIW
 
Re: ????? DPMS or Armalite SASS .308 ?????

When you said y'all wait 45-60 seconds between rounds, thats to let the barrel cool right?

I got the same advice and it didn't help me at all. towards the end of the day I was getting frustrated with the gun and waiting so I sped up the time between shots and they turned out better.

After that happened I experimented with it and it turns out that it shot better when the barrel was hot.

Is this a design/manufacture flaw? And would a muzzle break affect how the rifle shoots? I've never heard of that happening before.

I use to shoot Hornady match 168 gr. Spitzer tip boat tails, but I wasn't happy at all with them (but they work just fine in my 700 PSR) so I switched to Hornady A-Max's in 168 gr. and it shot lots better, but not MOA as I've heard tale of. Winchester 168gr. Ballistic silver tips work well, too.
 
Re: ????? DPMS or Armalite SASS .308 ?????

waiting doenst make any sense...you are letting the round bake in the chamber longer....try holding the gun a little different to. Alittle tighter on the grip and pull it towards your shoulder. You cant hold a semi like a bolt...
 
Re: ????? DPMS or Armalite SASS .308 ?????

Its not just me. Other people can't get the damn thing to work. Oh well, its going away (of sorts) soon. I'm rebarreling it into .243 winchester.

Sorry to hijack your SASS thread.
 
Re: ????? DPMS or Armalite SASS .308 ?????

THIS IS WHAT YOU NEED DPMS SASS............just got mine not to couple weeks ago love it



DSC00498.jpg
 
Re: ????? DPMS or Armalite SASS .308 ?????

Of all the AR-10 FACTORY type rifles I have shot, My buddy's DPMS is a hammer. I would bet your money, it shoots better than a factory PSS 700.

No shit.

Now, thats a factory gun to factory gun. The custom AR10 types are solid .75 MOA out to 300yds or so IF you know how to run them.

99% of people do not know how to run a gas gun in .308win. This is where most of the issues are at.

John
 
Re: ????? DPMS or Armalite SASS .308 ?????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1ShotJake</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just for grins, I'll bite, how do you run a gas gun in .308 win? </div></div>

Im intrested in hearing this one as well.
 
Re: ????? DPMS or Armalite SASS .308 ?????

You know, I think they were single loading when they were waiting between shots. I emailed a buddy of mine, and he said they were waiting over a minute. In our conversation, he couldn't remember single load or auto load.

My AR15 match rig won't shoot for shit with one in the cooker. I have to touch them off fairly quick.
 
Re: ????? DPMS or Armalite SASS .308 ?????

Gas gun in 308 you really need to pull rifle into your shoulder and have good follow through. 223 will let you get away with bad form. 308, 260 are not as user friendly.

FCS
 
Re: ????? DPMS or Armalite SASS .308 ?????

The waiting between shots is what KAC recomends, I'm not sure Armalite advised this during the SASS trials or not. My AR-10T has been nothing short of fantastic. Inside three hundred yards it will shoot jsut as tight as my LTR and at 500 yards it's still submao. I wouldn't buy the DPMS SASS because to me it doesn't look like a long range shooter plus it looks like an ad for Tapco. The LR308 seems to be a better option than their SASS. If it were me I would get a GAP built Armalite. The AR-10s are forged whereas the DPMS are billets...
 
Re: ????? DPMS or Armalite SASS .308 ?????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GhostFace</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The waiting between shots is what KAC recomends, I'm not sure Armalite advised this during the SASS trials or not. My AR-10T has been nothing short of fantastic. Inside three hundred yards it will shoot jsut as tight as my LTR and at 500 yards it's still submao. I wouldn't buy the DPMS SASS because to me it doesn't look like a long range shooter plus it looks like an ad for Tapco. The LR308 seems to be a better option than their SASS. If it were me I would get a GAP built Armalite. <span style="color: #FF0000">The AR-10s are forged whereas the DPMS are billets... </span></div></div>

I rather have the billet upper over a forged upper.


 
Re: ????? DPMS or Armalite SASS .308 ?????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: StaffyBull</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I rather have the billet upper over a forged upper.
</div></div>

What do you perceive the advantages of billet to be over forged?
 
Re: ????? DPMS or Armalite SASS .308 ?????

I have had my DPMS SASS for about a year now. I either got lucky or DPMS is making a superb product. I have had excellent accuracy out of this gun and would recommend one to anyone who had the money to get one. I think it is the best buy in the SASS department especially for the price.
I think your friends dealer is blowing smoke out his ass...

I wish I had some pictures of my groups that my sass would shoot even using cheap federal 150gr soft points.

Get the DPMS you wont be sorry. DPMS also has great customer service if you do have any issues.
 
Re: ????? DPMS or Armalite SASS .308 ?????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: StaffyBull</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GhostFace</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The waiting between shots is what KAC recomends, I'm not sure Armalite advised this during the SASS trials or not. My AR-10T has been nothing short of fantastic. Inside three hundred yards it will shoot jsut as tight as my LTR and at 500 yards it's still submao. I wouldn't buy the DPMS SASS because to me it doesn't look like a long range shooter plus it looks like an ad for Tapco. The LR308 seems to be a better option than their SASS. If it were me I would get a GAP built Armalite. <span style="color: #FF0000">The AR-10s are forged whereas the DPMS are billets... </span></div></div>

I rather have the billet upper over a forged upper.


</div></div>


I'm not trying to be a smart ass but more power to you. Forgings are stronger than billets and no matter the brand I will take a forging over anything else....
 
Re: ????? DPMS or Armalite SASS .308 ?????

I am in the middle of a similar decision process right now. Just moved from California to Texas (Navy) and this place is off the hook. Everything and anything goes here...as it should be. I have been deprived for too long and don't know which way to turn. A local shop has an Armalite AR-10 on the shelf right now, priced a little high and I am thinking of taking it off the mans hands. He is asking full MSRP of 1500 and you can get them all day long on Gun Broker for 12 and change. Has a DPMS in there too for 11 and change. I just have read all kinds of good stuff about Armalite and a couple gunsmiths I know say to go with the Armalie just becasue it is a bettery quality product. If he will give me a better price on it it'll be a wrap I think
 
Re: ????? DPMS or Armalite SASS .308 ?????

I'm an Armalite whore too, wont buy any other brand of AR .223 or .308. Not saying there aren't other good ones, there are many, I'm just a devoted fan. My range goes to 600yrds and its very common for me to get .5 moa groups with my AR10T. If it gets over moa, its my fault. Think its at about 2200 rnds now. All three of mine are very reliable.

okie
 
Re: ????? DPMS or Armalite SASS .308 ?????

FWIW, I don't own either one, but some time back I was seriously considering selling a couple of my rifles to buy a .308 gas gun. Accuracy was a primary factor. I spoke to a lot of shooters, owners, gunsmiths, and dealers, and the majority of them recommended DPMS over Bushy or Armalite for out of the box accuracy. Getting one from GAP would probably be your best bet.
 
Re: ????? DPMS or Armalite SASS .308 ?????

By GAP, you all are referring to G.A. Precision, correct?

GA Precision AR10

My buddy went ahead and ordered the Armalite SASS. He said it came with a case also. He saved $200 by having it shipped without the fake suppressor.

I have also been thinking about the Patriot Ordnance Factory P-308. A recent article I read about them stated that the author had gotten .5 MOA with all the factory ammo he tried in the test example. I had planned on buying this gun immediately, but then started reading on AR15.com and other sites that the P415, the same rifle in .223, was shooting around 2-3 MOA. I was skeptical that maybe the gun that the author had received was a factory "perfect" gun, and the one I bought would shoot 2 MOA. If any of you have experience with the POF USA P308, please chime in here. In the meantime, I am going to check more into the GA Precision.

 
Re: ????? DPMS or Armalite SASS .308 ?????

I have had myDPMS SASS for A couple weeks now...
production date 08feb08...

I went to our ranch and broke it in as DPMS suggested with some military surpluss ammo...The surpluss ammo shot about 3 MOA which diddnt have me to excited, so I fed some gold match through it...

Absolutly .5 5 shot groups...

Now, I was sick with the fever and my left eye was half swollen shut with a stye the size of a Buick on my top eye lid...bummer felling like crap, but the rifle shot well...

I took the rifle home, broke it down and cleaned it...

Two days later, fever doing better, eye swollen all the way shut and a home made bandage over it to keep me from screwing with it...I took the rifle out again and fired one 5 shot group...

five shots, .5 MOA...dead freakin center...

In better health, i got to belive it will even do better...

the rifle and the nightforce 3.5-15 absolutly works well...

 
Re: ????? DPMS or Armalite SASS .308 ?????

I had GA Precision build up my stock Armalite AR10 (Schnieder barrel, Badger Stabilizer float tube, McComich trigger, blah, blah, blah). Using the new Gen 2 magazines this thing shoots good and is quite reliable, but I don't get the consistiency of a custom built Rem 700 rifle. There may well be something to the "you gotta hold it right" statement, but I'll be damned if I know this secret.

I much prefer a custom build AR15 for the lighter weight and subsequent quicker handling but of course even the 77 grain pills dont hit like a 30 caliiber bullet.

But remember an AR10 (or the like) is a lot taller than a bolt rifle (about 6 inches taller!) on a rest and this alone makes them at a disadvantage in some situations. The cantankeous M14/M1A at least sits low..... But in the end you need one of each anyway.
 
Re: ????? DPMS or Armalite SASS .308 ?????

Alright, I have decided on the DPMS SASS. It has most of the accessories that I want, including sights, and is $500 cheaper than the Armalite SASS. Also, everything I have heard about the differences of the two rifles is pretty subjective. It really seems to be a matter of personal preference.

I've heard that the DPMS upper and lowers are not as good as the Armalite, but can't imagine a company like GA Precision offering to build a rifle from the DPMS or the Armalite if the DPMS wasn't just as good.

So, I figure that I will buy the DPMS, put my savings towards a quality scope, and if I'm still not happy with it later, I will send it to GA Precision and have them put a quality barrel on it and accurize it for me.

Thanks for everyone's input!
 
Re: ????? DPMS or Armalite SASS .308 ?????

Good luck with it bigjohn, I've heard a lot of good things about the DPMS 308's (I like thier .223's), probably couldn't have gone wrong with either one. If it performs anything like my "T", your gonna like it. Keep us posted.

okie
 
Re: ????? DPMS or Armalite SASS .308 ?????

When I first got my AR10 I couldn't hit the side of a barn. Well maybe not that bad. However, I had WOP chamber a Broughton 1:12 barrel and had my gas tube replaced with a extended gas tube and was good to go. I had close to 10k on the barrel when I shot the group below at 100m.

I am waiting so happens for my rifle to return from Armalite after sending it in for upgraded parts. I say get the Armalite but have it rebarreled and don't get a NATO chamber.


is_00044.jpg
 
Re: ????? DPMS or Armalite SASS .308 ?????

I would say neither and just save and get a gap. I have well over the money in my PMS sass. I am going to send the gun to them anyhow. I could not get my pms to shoot any factory ammo, with the exeception of one, but I finally got a handload worked up and couldn't be happier with the results.
42gr Varget
Win brass
210m
175 matchking
@ 2.810
is yeilding 1/2 to 3/4 moa.
Now my problem is feeding the first round. It never seems to fully close the bolt. The only reason I am not selling it is because I have so much money in it so far. ( I would take a beating!) I might as well send it to gap and be happy.
 
Re: ????? DPMS or Armalite SASS .308 ?????

Well, I finally got my rifle. By chance, my friend's boss had one that he wanted to let go of. It is a DPMS SASS with the VLTOR stock. It has a Versa-pod bipod on it which i will change out immediately.

Anyway, how's that for persistence. I tried to buy one back in March and was told that they were 4 months out. Then, last month I was told they were 8 months out. It's amazing how when you least expect it things come through.

BTW- I've already Camo'd the thing out. I hope to shoot it in tomorrow.
 
Re: ????? DPMS or Armalite SASS .308 ?????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bigjohnintexas</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, I finally got my rifle. By chance, my friend's boss had one that he wanted to let go of. It is a DPMS SASS with the VLTOR stock. It has a Versa-pod bipod on it which i will change out immediately.

Anyway, how's that for persistence. I tried to buy one back in March and was told that they were 4 months out. Then, last month I was told they were 8 months out. It's amazing how when you least expect it things come through.

BTW- I've already Camo'd the thing out. I hope to shoot it in tomorrow. </div></div>


Pics or it didn't happen....
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laugh.gif


Seriously, congrats, and post pics when you can.

 
Re: ????? DPMS or Armalite SASS .308 ?????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rat-30</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Pics or it didn't happen....
smile.gif
laugh.gif


Seriously, congrats, and post pics when you can.

</div></div>

DSCF2154.jpg


DSCF2153.jpg
 
Re: ????? DPMS or Armalite SASS .308 ?????

I know this is blasphemy but, I have a DPMS SASS and I'm impartial. You could hand me an AR-10 or a LR-308 and I couldn't tell you the difference.

I think all these AR platforms are built to the same specs and that the average Joe shooter (like me) can't tell a bit of difference. It's the shooters version of being a Ford/Chevy guy.
 
Re: ????? DPMS or Armalite SASS .308 ?????

I am nowhere near the level of skill that some folks here are but my DPMS SASS has proved to be a easy rifle to do well with. I don't find it overly difficult to fire 1.2" 5 or 7 shot groups with it, and when I really get in a groove I can turn in several .75 to .95" groups. I was at my first ever long range shoot about a month ago and got a 5.6" 500yd group using that rig and a VX-III 1.75-6X scope. I am well pleased with it. I'll bet a better shooter than I could make it sing.

It's been problem free for me as well. I have a great first impression of DPMS in the .308 game.
 
Re: ????? DPMS or Armalite SASS .308 ?????

What ,scopes are u guys using on your sass,I just got mine. And its bad ass.