Dumb civilian question for LEOs. military & preppers

[Deleted member 137765]

I'm a CCW carrier and have some training. lately I've noticed that shit is getting absurdly weird and have actively been looking for ways to improve my home security. Things like reinforcing doors and windows, adding very visible commercial surveillance cams, motion sensor lights, high & low tech perimeter alarms, unplugging my garage door opener and locking the track, 3 dogs trained to bark every time the see or hear something, access to firearms, family training from fixed defensive positions...everything I can think of. I am reinforcing the upstairs landing with steel in the walls and floor to create a strong defensive firing positions with the narrow stairway being a choke point. If they shoot up through the ceiling from beneath us downstairs, we're still good. I know, I know...seems extreme. Still looking at window films vs bulletproof glass. If we end up in a civil war or BLM/ANTIFA asshats come knocking, I wanna have a plan in place. Better to have it and not need it right?

But today my AR500 Testudo plate carrier arrived and I am questioning the wisdom of mounting pouches and a sidearm holster to it vs a heavy duty tactical belt. If i need to go prone and get low, it's kinda hard with a buncha crap strapped tot he front of your tactical vest. The damn thing is heavy and i hate the way the shoulder straps rub against my neck...not designed for tee shirts, that's for sure. So for you guys in the know who have already gone down this road...what conclusions did you come to? There are pros & cons to everything. I know my wife won't wear a heavy vest just because she can't. She's 61, has bone-on-bone for knees and health issues that make a 25lb vest a problem. Trying to I.D. something different for her while questioning the wisdom of this configuration for my carrier. I welcome all informed opinions offered that might help me better protect the family.

 

[W54/XM-388]

You might want to look into installing one of these on your ground floor and have a good seal on your upstairs door.
Make sure to add in much more powerful strobes for lighting, preferably in amber colour, then really and I mean really loud multiple sirens.

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[Evolution 9]

AR500 is good for home or vehicle armor but isn’t suitable for personal wear as you’re finding out. WAY too heavy.

Do you have a serious fire solution? It sounds like all they have to do is drop a match and walk away?

Speaking of fire, whatever you decide for the windows, make sure it doesn’t prevent escaping in case of fire.

I’d prefer a good film over bulletproof glass, because (aside from your steel sections) your walls are not bulletproof.

Long term (2 hours) you won’t survive a mob. Better to have a big SUV pointed outward inside the garage than most of your preparations.

 

[loveha]

This is where a gun belt comes in handy. Garand Thumb actually just covered gun belts on his YouTube channel. But from my 8 years in the Corps, I was the odd one that choose to run that leg mounted magazine pouch. Don't think it's even issued anymore because nobody wore it. I only put small stuff up at the top. Which was basically a grenade pouch to hold whatever because I never got grenades, and one mag pouch. I didn't like mounting anything to the sides of my vest because I didn't like my arms hitting shit when I'm just trying to walk. Looking like I was a gym rat and all I did was arms and back not able to put my arms down.

Like mentioned, you won't survive a mob, and it will most likely become a two way range. Shoot your way out, and get away. If society has completely broken and there are no repercussions for it, maybe you can take things back on your own terms if you had supplies at a secondary point and you wanted to return.

Odds are though, your house is looted and set on fire.

 

[Deleted member 137765]

I've heard about stink-water cannons and audio defense systems that disorient and cause vomiting. Is there any tech that would make your residence safer from looting and fire? Something that would deter a mob? I heard the sonic weapon was being deployed in the whale-hunting wars at sea. I'd seek to avoid shooting people if possible but have no reservations about killing anyone threatening my family and home. And I have the necessary tools. Thanks...those fog machines are kinda funny.

 

[MK20]

Honestly, trying to successfully harden a suburban house is worthless. Especially in your situation I would Consider mobility to be security. If things get that bad you won’t want to be living there anyway. Do you have a friend in the country who you could pre position the important stuff with?

Get a belt with 2 pistol pouches, 2 FAST rifle mag pouches, and a basic med kit for her. Just have her run that. If you have the cash, HDPE plates are super light. If not, don’t have her wear a vest.

 

[Pilotscrappy]

John Lovells take on bugging out, or dig in.

Key points being if you plan on trying to defend a home in the suburbs etc or even property , it needs to be more than you and your wife defending it. It's not realistic for you to run security 24/7.

 

[sea2summit]

I’m not going to ask you what steel or other details but in my mind the thickness, quality, and amount required to make a human size spot on the floor and a fighting position on each side at the top of a stair case would easily exceed the design load capacity for most suburban homes. Multiple hit rated for 5.56 AR500 steel is minimum 3/8”, which is 15.5 lb/sqft so a 3’x6’ on the floor for one person to lay on is ~280lbs, 4x4 on each side of the stairs is another ~500lbs, now two humans and you’re over 1,000lbs focused on a very small area and I honestly would have a lot more steel than that if it was the final hold out.

But aside from that, I agree with what some others have said. It will be very hard to hold your home from any type of crowd (let’s say 10+). If you’re focused on the stairs sooner or later you’ll get shot in the back or otherwise flanked by the guy that used the ladder on the side of the house if they want in that bad. Fire is also a very real threat. If they just want to cause damage there are probably already fires going nearby which are a threat. If they come to your house and you’re fighting they’ll probably just pitch a Molotov or two and call it a night.

My final point would be, if you are fighting from the top of your stairs and they are already in your house. You’ve already lost. You can’t come back from that without help.

If you think the threat is that high I would absolutely recommend moving.

 

[Romeo458]

Make sure terrorism and riots are covering your insurance, especially if you are close to down town or a police station, get a storage or friends place for important things like pictures or keepsakes and train the dogs to load in the vehicle fast.

A standard family home is t worth trying to reinforce unless its brick, even then against a mob solo you are not going to fare well. Like sea2summit was saying, it would end up more of a last stand.

 

[W54/XM-388]

The question is, what exact kind of mob and what situation are we talking about?
Most of the recent mobs seem like if you had you and the wife unloading on them with well aimed shots, from a point you had decent cover, where every round connected with a criminal, they would probably be running and begging for the police to come save them and arrest you, after the first 10 or so dropped.

If it's a different kind of mob that wouldn't be deterred by that, then you kind of are needing a local civil defense force that is well coordinated.

 

[ZY100]

Agree, hardening a home is a questionable project. But perhaps a key wall or two for some situations. My opinion is ballistic fiberglass sheets 3/8 or 1/2) are easier to work with/cut, captures the round and a lot lighter. You can literally drill and screw it like drywall...but butt joints are not ideal...you should have overlap.

Regardless, you can screw it up (or down) and drywall/floor right over it.

I think if you want a safe area/room to hole up in until the calvary arrives, not such a bad plan. Mobs....one molotov and your well laid plain goes up in smoke. Get off the X....

ZY

 

[Dthomas3523]

Many carriers like the one in your post keep everything on them so it’s not a chore or process.

If you will have the time to get kitted out, belts and better organized plate carriers/vest are what you want. If you’re not going to have time, something like a vest with everything on it makes sense. It won’t be perfectly setup for comfort, but thats not the point.

In a perfect world, you’d have two setups. One kit that has all your Batman gadgets and as comfortable as possible that takes a few min to get into. And one that has only the necessities that can be tossed on or picked up and run with.

For the emergency kit, steel is fine as you’ll likely be pretty hyped up and won’t notice it until you *should* have time to swap kits. For your other kit, you’ll want lighter weight plates.

And as others have said, in a perfect world, you will be leaving a house and going somewhere else better suited for protection. If this is the case, do not keep you other kit in the house. It does you no good to grab your emergency kit and have to get out of your house ASAP and end up leaving all your toys behind. Stage them where you’ll be going and use your emergency kit to get mobile and then reassess/plan at your fallback.

 

[Hairball]

JMHO,
At some point you need to decide what is most likely in your area and what are the “what ifs” that will have you chasing your tail until the end of time. If you are in a regular suburban neighborhood, I would focus more on the remote chance of robbery/home invasion over a riot mob walking down your street and focusing on your house. First, looters have better pickings in the city center where they know shoe stores have new shoes, electronic stores have electronics and pharmacy’s have medications and the risk of reprisal is limited.

Second, you start walking down random neighborhood streets and trying to kick in peoples doors just to see what they have would not last very long once people start getting shot. If it ever got to the point where large bans of armed folks are walking around doing bad things with no LE response, no amount of fortification in a house will prevent you from eventually being overrun unless you have numbers on your side. You might consider forming partnerships with other neighbors but in contemporary society, many folks may not even know their neighbors enough to even consider this option. I would hold off on the major home renovations and focus on having a good supply (as in months) of food, water, required medications, pet food, and other essentials that you will most likely need and not focus on the “Alamo” fortifications as the money can be better used in other areas.

As a retired military and retired LE member myself, my greatest concern is fire and if you live in a regular community, the house three streets over could catch fire and if the fire department is unable to respond or stop it, it may burn unchecked and take your house anyway. I’m more of the bug in type as I am getting too old to be running the hillsides lugging gear around. It sounds good in theory but not so much in reality. Kind of like the folks that feel invulnerable because they have 500 AR mags fully loaded and ready to defend their border. If you need to start walking, you might take 3-7 at the most unless you want to give up food, water, and shelter for ammo. If things develop over a few months, I will pack up the trailer and head to a better location but if things go to hell overnight, I’m stuck here and will just deal with it.

In regards to plate carriers, here again, only you can decide what you should carry and where. I have my own perspectives after lugging gear around with the Marines (I was a Corpsman for 24 years) so what works for me may not work for you. Whatever you decide, you need to spend time wearing it. I’ve seen many folks over the years look like a flailing turtle on its back trying to reach gear they mount in odd places. Another test is to put your carrier on and run down the street and see how much gear you lost when you get home or roll around in the yard for a bit and see if everything stays put. Lastly, if you do follow the latest trend of running with multiple tourniquets, chest seals, decompression needles, and a list of other items, get training on how to use it as it can cause more harm than good if you don’t know what you are doing.

 

[LSa]

Get rid of extra furniture and ”trash”. When Your home is burning, Your need space to move out or change position, and less fire load inside and near buildind.

Lights are important. You got to see what You are shooting.

You can install dim battery powered red battle lights inside, so You can move silently and quickly inside Your house, without destroying Your night vision.

Check safe directions to shoot, You don’t want to harm Your neighbours.

Train firefighting and TCCC. IF bad happens, there will be fire and blood.

 

[UpSideDown]

Hey man I think you’re worrying way too much about your home. I get the feeling that you want to protect your world, but you’ll cripple yourself by making your home into a castle. It’s still a tinderbox that will burn to the ground when someone throws a Molotov on the roof. You’re also extremely unlikely to have that happen even if you live in downtown Portland.

What WILL suck is if you max out your credit cards and pull out your retirement to put ballistic steel plates in your house that are never used. Don’t make your home a castle. It isn’t one. Go for a nice camping trip in the woods if need be.

 

[I Spot 4U - "Eagle Eyes"]

Just my opinion: First things first, You and/or the Mrs. need to take care of your/her immediate medical issue/s right now. Before you're both down and can't move or do anything physically to protect yourselves and/or each other...

Again, Just My Opinion here...You and the Mrs. based upon your concerns could also consider getting an in-person threat assessment/consultation at your home by a reputable company that specializes in such things. Do your due diligence, if you decide to hire them.

When it comes to your gear, others here on the Hide have covered that.

 

[...]

But today my AR500 Testudo plate carrier arrived and I am questioning the wisdom of mounting pouches and a sidearm holster to it vs a heavy duty tactical belt. If i need to go prone and get low, it's kinda hard with a buncha crap strapped tot he front of your tactical vest. The damn thing is heavy and i hate the way the shoulder straps rub against my neck...not designed for tee shirts, that's for sure. So for you guys in the know who have already gone down this road...what conclusions did you come to? There are pros & cons to everything. I know my wife won't wear a heavy vest just because she can't. She's 61, has bone-on-bone for knees and health issues that make a 25lb vest a problem. Trying to I.D. something different for her while questioning the wisdom of this configuration for my carrier. I welcome all informed opinions offered that might help me better protect the family.

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this is going to be a situation where you try and try and try different configurations until you find something you are almost certain you are happy with.

personally, i run my carrier with as little shit on it as possible.

i run a Hydration carrier on the back, 3 mag rifle mag carrier on the front, an a small admin pouch.....thats it, and the longer i run the carrier, the more shit i take off it.

on my belt, i run a med kit, pistol, 1x pistol reload, and 1x rifle reload....

frankly i would look into the possibility of getting lighter weight plates......steel plates are fucking heavy.

UHMWPE plates are great for reducing weight, they add bulk and reduce protection however.

you can also look into lvl 3a plates, significantly lighter, but obviously cant handle rifle threats.......still better than no protection at all

 

[Deleted member 137765]

Thank you all. Here in So. OC we're already somewhat insulated from the more violent protesters, our Sheriffs are very proactive. And I realize (especially now after reading these replies) that my perimeter defense is inadequate so we're now looking at ways to lock down the entire neighborhood. Seems many of my neighbors are on board. One guy is trying to secure some Sonic Cannons and Stink Cannons but i dunno if they sell those for civilian use. LOL! But there's strength in numbers and I gotta believe that the ANTIFA/BLM asshats would think twice before crossing a line filled with lots of armed citizens carry bear spray and lethal weapons. The difference here where I live is that people generally don't wait for solutions...they create them. Had a registered child molester move in. He was greeted by several parents and decided to relocate. We've had coyotes roam the streets, even attack a four year kid in his front yard. Plenty of pets would go missing as well. The general rule is, if you hear a shot, you don't worry about it or report it, ya just assume there's a yote in somebody's trashcan. Now if I hear six shots, that's different. But we rarely see coyotes in our neighborhood anymore...the dog food bowls left outside go untouched. I understand what you are suggesting and it makes sense. We're gonna take a broader approach to the problem and instead of building a fortress outta my tract home...build an interconnected community safe zone that continues to eliminate predatory threats. Thank you all for opening my eyes.

 

[UpSideDown]

That’s a better plan. Work with your community. People don’t start fights with prepared opponents when they can pick the same fight with an unprepared or unknowing opponent.

 

[Woodland_Wolf_M81]

Not sure what your community layout is and the road situation, but was listening to one of the Tactical Rifleman's live streams on YouTube and Karl (retired Green Beret) talked about cutting (or using explosive charges in the military) down trees in an overlapping pattern to stop vehicles. If you do it correctly, it will stop vehicles from coming in, but won't stop you from plowing your way out with your own vehicle.

 

[UpSideDown]

This is more effective with a 75mm anti-tank gun at the end of the street.

I’m gonna eat some Cheetos, you guys keep up with the napalm moats.

 

[Deleted member 137765]

The guy got permission to purchase the LRAD units for civilian purposes. This effectively will close all five access roads to the entire community. Add residents with lethal and nonlethal weapons and the community seems defensible whereas a lone home would not. There are no trees to block access but plenty of large vehicles to create active checkpoints to allow residents access in & out. So the plan is to create a rapid defense system where every willing resident participates in quelling the violation of our hood. Kinda scary to think about but certainly better than what some places are seeing occur.

 

[LawnMM]

To the duder hardening his landing at the top of the stairs...

Just stop. That's great if you armor it up and spend all kinds of time and money making it impassible from below.

What happens when I put a ladder up to a window while my buddies keep you occupied at the stairs?

If that doesn't work, maybe we just light the house on fire and burn you out.

Point being, if it's as bad as it would need to be for what you have in mind, it was time to leave long ago.

 

[GTOJOSH]

All situations are different, but all planning is the same. Try to come up with all possible scenarios, and create a p.a.c.e. plan.
P: Primary- straightforward "if a then b." And all your family/ community that is on board focuses on this- the primary plan.
A: Alternate- if a happens and b isn't an option, then do this alternate plan that everyone can transition to.
C: Contingency- if everything is going whack and this one particular thing happens, then the plan is this... but only contingent on "this". Less focus on this, but again, everyone should have information to act accordingly or a means to communicate to those around them the contingency plan.
E: Emergency- when all else fails the Emergency plan is...
You can use this mindset in everything, every day life, and many do without realizing it. Discussing what would happen if a hotel you're staying at on vacation staryed on fire, if a restaurant youre eating at were to get robbed, if your constitutional rights were being stripped away right before your- well, you get the point.
Sounds crazy- yes.
Make you feel better and everything more manageable? Try it and see.
Does bringing this up Make your coworkers look at you like you just told them aliens are time traveling proctologists who are searching for patient zero for a new strain of colon cancer? I'll find out tomorrow when we discuss upcoming travel plans.

 

[Mr.BR]

Folks 'hardening' houses built out of particle board, plaster and 4x2s where could it go wrong? one Molotov cocktail later.

 

[Kir]

Have you made a trapdoor and dug out a tunnel to escape behind the invaders you are expecting so you can frag 'em???

 

[Mr.BR]

Why stop at one tunnel , you need at least a tunnel system .

 

[Woodland_Wolf_M81]

That rolling Punji spike trap... I might have to give that a try

 

[Mudburner]

That’s a better plan. Work with your community. People don’t start fights with prepared opponents when they can pick the same fight with an unprepared or unknowing opponent.

I think this is a very VERY good suggestion. Band together with your neighbors and work together with simple, inexpensive, easily done ideas to protect yourselves and your property. You & your neighbors all have a very good incentive to stay & fight (to prevent property damage/personal injury, etc).

Maybe start meeting with your locals and brainstorm simple ideas on how to keep criminals out of your area to begin with. Armed men on your perimeter and armed scouts farther out make it a real deterrent. See them coming is the idea, and head them off. Come around here and start trouble, and you will get shot, sort of thing.

Expensive, easily defeated modifications to your home? Nope. I suggest you think layers of defense.

People you trust doing low key patrol/scouting the neighborhood, checking on each other, helping out, cooking food for old folks, medical concerns, transportation, security, etc. Band together/work together. Lone Ranger wont work when a criminal mob comes near, unless you are Mitch Rapp, the Nowhere Man, or the Gray Man, or maybe have grenades (lol). Disciplined/trained group of armed citizens of all ages will give em the good idea to go pull their crap someplace else.

 

[Mudburner]

Sitting here, thinking about this some more... I think this is a very timely and relevant issue for everybody, considering today's social & economic & political climate.

I like your line of thought, but please consider a few ideas:
-control your space. Give yourself protected space to maneuver and return fire, and escape if needed.
-a hardened defensive position is imo, a good idea. However... Make a way to hit the bad guys from the greatest distance possible.
-if bad guys are in your house, it's already too late, but not a total disaster, if you can protect yourself in your home and defeat threats in it. But... Keep them out if possible.
-a better idea is to keep them out in the yard, bottling them up, or channeling them into a kill zone. Something not obvious. Maybe a fence? Wall? Thorny bushes/hedge? Alarm systems in the yard? Lights? Noise makers? Early warning somehow? Think barky dogs?
-remember, distance is your friend. An even better idea is to keep them out of your neighborhood. Scouts patrolling farther out, with coms for early warning. United front of armed citizens meets criminal gang?
-my first thought would be to organise with your neighbors and people you can trust, and work with your local cops & prosecutor (?) to identify who's who, that is, identify who are the potential bad actors that present the threat to y'all, then take countermeasures to defeat them. As in...
-low key intel gathering. Try to figure out who the bad guys are. Prevent the bad guys from learning you are on to them, and head em off at the pass, somehow, so to speak.
-Overt, in-the-open intel gathering can send criminals the idea that you will not tolerate being fucked with and will be a hard target. (?) Not to challenge them to attack you, but to give criminals a second thought, making them go somewhere else.
-again, layers of defense. Make it hard for a dodgy individual/groups of criminals to get anywhere NEAR your house, your neighborhood, your area.
-the idea is to identify the threat, then take countermeasures to defeat the threat as far away as possible. Multiple layers of defense. Layering makes the bad guys have to take time, make noise, spend resources, etc. Jam them up every step of the way.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Fire works both ways.
It can be a great deterrent if used correctly.
rolling carts of material can be quickly dumped at strategic intersections and set on fire to deny access to the area while offering minimal danger if done correctly.

Smaller roads and sidewalks can quickly be painted with a layer of gelled fuel that will burn impressively but not cause danger outside the area.

For those with no preparation hardly, just about everybody in the suburbs has a half full plastic gas can of fuel for their lawnmower.
Most folks also have some flour in the kitchen as well and some string or rags.

 

[UpSideDown]

Defending your house from inside at the level being discussed is worthless. No one is going to hold a prolonged gun battle with you to win if you pose any resistance they’re putting s Molotov into your door.

You’re going to feel awful stupid when the house four doors down is on fire, no one comes to put it out, and the whole neighborhood burns. You either defend the whole community, hide, or leave.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Defending your house from inside at the level being discussed is worthless. No one is going to hold a prolonged gun battle with you to win if you pose any resistance they’re putting s Molotov into your door.

You’re going to feel awful stupid when the house four doors down is on fire, no one comes to put it out, and the whole neighborhood burns. You either defend the whole community, hide, or leave.

I wonder how this cheap stuff or the really expensive full foam shell stuff would work if you wanted your home to have a chance to be standing after some BLM type throws a firebomb at it.:

Barricade Fire Gel

Barricade Fire Gel Retardant forms a unique thermal protective gel-coating that stops fires from burning homes, structures, vehicles, fuel tanks, and other.

firegel.com

Prevention & Protection

PHOS-CHEK® Ground Applied Long-Term Retardants are a valuable fire management tool that can help stop wildfire in its tracks.

phos-chekhomedefense.com

Big Sur FOAMSAFE™ Wildfire Protection System

FOAMSAFE™ Wildfire Protection System installed on a historic property in Big Sur, CA.

www.consumerfireproducts.com

 

[DTF370]

What he said. The only way to fight numbers is with numbers or with an ambush (which doesn’t seem to fit your scenario. Unless you have a minute man organization, I would pick your battles carefully. Absolutely nothing wrong with beefing up your place. I think basic supplies (food, water, meds, shelter, security) plus networking with like minded patriots is much more important. Just my opinion. Good luck and hopefully it doesn’t get that bad.

 

[UpSideDown]

I wonder how this cheap stuff or the really expensive full foam shell stuff would work if you wanted your home to have a chance to be standing after some BLM type throws a firebomb at it.:

Barricade Fire Gel

Barricade Fire Gel Retardant forms a unique thermal protective gel-coating that stops fires from burning homes, structures, vehicles, fuel tanks, and other.

firegel.com

Prevention & Protection

PHOS-CHEK® Ground Applied Long-Term Retardants are a valuable fire management tool that can help stop wildfire in its tracks.

phos-chekhomedefense.com

Big Sur FOAMSAFE™ Wildfire Protection System

FOAMSAFE™ Wildfire Protection System installed on a historic property in Big Sur, CA.

www.consumerfireproducts.com

It won’t help you. Not against a long burning gas fire. Homes are tinder boxes.