Easiest WW2 era rifle to DIY gunsmith?

DPRoberts

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Minuteman
Mar 8, 2011
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St.Louis, MO
The obvious answer would be a Nagant since its less than a hundred bucks to get a new one if I mess something up, but I'm not crazy about them. My brother has a m44 that I hate shooting and being near because of the massive concussion of the muzzle blast.

I'm looking for a project rifle that I can improve with just basic tools, cheap parts, and elbow grease. Are they all about the same or are some more temperamental than others?

Looking at Springfields, 91-30 nagant, m39, mauser 96/98
 
Re: Easiest WW2 era rifle to DIY gunsmith?

Depends on what you mean by "improve". If you're talking about taking the millions of historic firearms that have already been chopped up to make "huntin' rifles" and restoring them back to their former glory, I say "take your pick". It's unfortunate that there's so many to choose from. However, I'm guessing that's not your intention. The problem is, people spend hundreds of dollars and hours to "improve" these guns, only to find little or no improvement in them (or they shoot worse than ever)and they've destroyed a piece of history in the process. There are a lot of $500 project guns out there that are now only worth fifty bucks. I would suggest practicing on one of them.
 
Re: Easiest WW2 era rifle to DIY gunsmith?

Buy a couple of the Model 91/30's to practice on. I think they are about the most plentiful and cheapest alternative out there right now. I have a 91/30 that came with a beautiful laminated stock, and the gun shoots pretty good too. Ammo is cheap and powerful - all for 117.00$. I am thinking about buying another one this weekend. JMHO.
 
Re: Easiest WW2 era rifle to DIY gunsmith?

Sporterizing vintage military rifles is a deadly sin in my book.

By improve I meant taking a rack grade infantry rifle and getting it to the level of the handpicked sniper rifles of the period. I'm just looking for a project that has the head room to let me make a noticeable difference in the accuracy and function of the rifle. Anyone can slap a scope on a rusty Nagant and call it a sniper rifle but I want to make a rifle worthy of the name.

Maybe I just have delusions of grandeur...
 
Re: Easiest WW2 era rifle to DIY gunsmith?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DPRoberts</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sporterizing vintage military rifles is a deadly sin in my book.

By improve I meant taking a rack grade infantry rifle and getting it to the level of the handpicked sniper rifles of the period. I'm just looking for a project that has the head room to let me make a noticeable difference in the accuracy and function of the rifle. Anyone can slap a scope on a rusty Nagant and call it a sniper rifle but I want to make a rifle worthy of the name.

Maybe I just have delusions of grandeur... </div></div>
Now you're talking! No delusions of grandeur, at all. It can be done and, usually, without too much trouble. And, along these lines, I would agree that the Mosins are probably the easiest to play with and you will get notable results without spending a lot (if any) money, nor performing any permanent mods to the rifle. Are you looking for improvements to just the standard rifle, or are you looking to go the sniper route? In both cases, the factors are the same, just the scope to dial in on the snipers. Also, if you're looking for an original sniper rifle, you could consider the "ex-sniper" route. I've restored several, myself. Ask away, or drop me a PM.

John
 
Re: Easiest WW2 era rifle to DIY gunsmith?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DPRoberts</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sporterizing vintage military rifles is a deadly sin in my book.

By improve I meant taking a rack grade infantry rifle and getting it to the level of the handpicked sniper rifles of the period. I'm just looking for a project that has the head room to let me make a noticeable difference in the accuracy and function of the rifle. Anyone can slap a scope on a rusty Nagant and call it a sniper rifle but I want to make a rifle worthy of the name.

Maybe I just have delusions of grandeur... </div></div>

It depends on how good your skills are and the tools you have at your disposal, or at least have easy access to.

I have had a couple of replicas made (98k and No4T) and am in the process of getting a third (M1903A1) madde now.

ON all three, there are challenges that require precision engineering if you are to do a worthwhile job that does not run the danger of devaluing the rifle, ending up with a rifle that will never shoot straight or, worst of all, destroying the rifle completely.

I would recommend that you do not try to make a DIY No4T - this is far and away the hardest to do properly.

There is a good reason why there are a lot of scoped 98k and Moisin - these are probably the simplest to achieve but are still very easy to f*ck up if you drill the receiver in the wrong place and then have to start welding and re-drilling or shiming/grinding the scope mounts or rings.

After the scope/mpunts, you may wish to polish or replace the trigger and bed the action (either by traditional means or with more modern techniques/materials.

However.....all this is just window dressing if the rifle you choose to convert isn't capable of holding a better than average group in the first place.

Most of the contenders in WW2 (certainly in the UK, germany and US)were pre-selected as they were proven to shoot better than millions of similar rifles of the same type.
 
Re: Easiest WW2 era rifle to DIY gunsmith?

Please stay away from Springfields, unless you find one that's been butchered beyond restoration.

Orginal 'as issued" Springfields are getting hard to find, and expensive. They arn't making them any more.

Mosins are good project guns. Get a couple good ones and set them aside, leaving them as issued. Then get some to butcher. They certainly are cheap enough.

As to the "massive muzzle blast" I haven't noticed that. But then again I only shoot reloads and reload for accuracy at 100 & 200 yards, the distance fired in CMP GSM Vintage Rifle Matches. I load them a tad light, but they shoot good at 200 yards. Not much recoil and muzzle blast.

I'm for passing a law making it illegal to sportize US Vintage Military Rifles, might even consider adding forgien rifles to the law.
 
Re: Easiest WW2 era rifle to DIY gunsmith?

+1

Well said Kraig.

I'm OK with conservation and sympatheitc restoration to original condition but....

Sporterizing classic rifles should be a capital offence.

We're not living in post-WW2 Europe/US
 
Re: Easiest WW2 era rifle to DIY gunsmith?

Thanks for the replies guys you've given me a better idea of what I'm looking for. My plans were exactly as you said: bedding, trigger work, minor barrel work (recrown, chamber polish), and polishing everything. I guess its kinda silly to expect to find the Savage of ww2 rifles so I'll start with a Nagant for practice.

I see no reason why I shouldn't own a Mosin Nagant anyhow at their price point.
 
Re: Easiest WW2 era rifle to DIY gunsmith?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DPRoberts</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess its kinda silly to expect to find the Savage of ww2 rifles so I'll start with a Nagant for practice.</div></div>
Why is that silly? I did. It's a 1942 Savage built No.4 Mk.I that was converted to a sniper by Holland and Holland in 1945. Some idiot sporterized it by cutting the stock down and adding a Williams peep sight (complete with a welded, half inch extension on the the front blade, to compensate for the misplaced a/m sight!
sick.gif
). Fortunately, the mount pads were still present and he hadn't cut the barrel. I put on a different forend/handguards, original rear sight, new front blade and it's a great shooter. Still need to get a mount, scope and cheek rest (they took that off, too. But, the original butt is still there). I'm a big Savage fan, but THIS Savage is my favorite!

Mosins can be accurized in the same way that the Russians did it. When you get to that point, let me know. I'm your man.
smile.gif


John
 
Re: Easiest WW2 era rifle to DIY gunsmith?

I was able to find a sporterized 1903, and re did it to look like a 1903A4. That might be a good project for you. Find a sporterized something and rescue it.
 
Re: Easiest WW2 era rifle to DIY gunsmith?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kilo-Sierra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was able to find a sporterized 1903, and re did it to look like a 1903A4. That might be a good project for you. Find a sporterized something and rescue it. </div></div>

Sounds like a good deed to me.
grin.gif
 
Re: Easiest WW2 era rifle to DIY gunsmith?

I find restoring sporterized milsurp firearms to be relaxing, fun and rewarding. Finding parts can be a challenge at times but fun non the less. You can learn much about your chosen firearm in the process. I've done a Long Branch Enfield No.4 and have a Lithgow No.1 in process now. I personally like Lee-Enfields. They are a very nice rifle with a long rich history.