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Sidearms & Scatterguns Educate me on the 10mm...

MWM-5150

MWM-5150

Full Member
Full Member
Minuteman
Nov 5, 2010
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17
Springfield, MO
So I already own a handfull of 9mm, .40, and .45 handguns. Glocks, Xd's, Sigs, 1911's. I'm just itching for another handgun for aboslutely no reason, and it makes sense to me to stick to one of those calibers. BUT...Im getting kinda curious about a 10mm Glock 20. I had an Uncle RIP that had a pretty tricked out Gen2 Glock 20 with a 6" barrel. I never got to shoot it, but he swore you could hunt hogs with the thing inside of 100yds. I've read up a little on the 10mm, so I know its a powerful cartridge, but what is it like to live with, shoot, and feed a handgun in this chamber? I currently reload for all of my handguns on a Dillon 550, so it will likely cost me a bit to set this up to chuck out 10mm as well.

This will not be a 'duty' gun. I'll use this at the range, a sidearm while backwoods hunting, and maybe home defense, but not CCW.

Another concern I have is I am one of those dimwits that likes to tinker with things. How difficult is it to find aftermarket threaded barrels and hi-cap mags for the 10mm? My plan is to get a .45 cal suppressor at some point this year, so I would like to be able to use it on this gun as well.

Any insight you could offer would be welcomed.
 
10mm mags are limited for 1911s. I have heard you can use 45 mags if the ramp is right and I am going to try next range trip. I would think whatever barrel you want is a click away from the usual places. I have only had mine a few months but it is one of my favorites. Most factory loads are like 40 s&w level but once I started handloading, it woke up a lot. It is a snappy cartridge and wouldn't be my first choice for fast follow ups in an auto but I see it as an alternative to carrying one of my 44 revolvers. It is one of my woods guns. If I wanted to hunt with an auto it would be a 460 rowland. 10mm to me is just a do it all versatile option. A bit hot for self defense and a bit light for big game but could do both if needed. I bought a smith m69 right after and it fills my woods bumming role better in my oppinion especially in the mountains with bears. If I'm out scouting or mushroom hunting, a 45 or 10mm is usually on me. 1911s carry nice IWB for me.
I wanted a glock 20 but my gun guy talked me into a rock island ultra at a great price. So far I really like it. I may change the sights and put a flat firing pin stop in it but that is all. The only things I see as a downside to 10mm is that it launches brass into orbit and brass isn't cheap. It is loud too... long shot loads are especially loud.
it sounds like you want one for the same reasons I did so I say do it. I wouldn't be afraid to defend myself from anything smaller than brown bear with my handloads. I bought 1k pulled 180gr HSTs and worked up a max charge and it seems mean. Next step is some hard cast. I still really like the warm fuzzy feeling a 44 gives me and the smith is really nice so it may spend more time in the woods with me.
 
"I currently reload for all of my handguns on a Dillon 550, so it will likely cost me a bit to set this up to chuck out 10mm as well."

If you don't mind adjusting your 40s&w dies and measure, they should work for loading 10mm.
 
If you're considering a G20 and then getting an extended 6" barrel, look at a G40. It comes factory with a 6" barrel and slide, an adjustable rear sight, and it's part of the MOS line, so a red dot install is just five minutes and two screws away. I have all three of Glocks 10mm offerings, and other than the little bit of additional recoil, I see them as no different than any of my other Glocks, and I use my 10's the way it sounds like you plan to use yours.

As for additional magazine capacity, there are plenty of options for +1 to +5, and Kriss offers an extension for +15 if you need that.

The only other thing I would add is if you plan on running the really hot loads or lead you'll want to get an aftermarket barrel for full case head support, and a heavier recoil spring to keep slide speed acceptable.

Dave
 
I would definitely try the glock 20/40 before buying. They are good guns but even for border line large hands the grip can be awkward and therefore harder to deal with recoil. May not be a big deal or it could rule it out. I have had a few 10mms and like the caliber (really I enjoy many calibers though) the best for me is either 1911 style or sig 220 (my actual favorite) as the smaller grip makes these easy to control. Rock island 10mm is same rough price range as glock if you find the g20 too large in grip.
 
If you really need a reason, killing pigs with a 10mm sounds fun enough justify buying one.
 
G40, 6.6" threaded bbl, vortex venom, taylor freelance +5's, 200gr XTP's @ 20 per magazine. Osprey45 because why not. Pretty decent nightstand/center console setup.
 

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So the consensus seems to be "get the 10mm." In looking into it a little further, it seems you can switch from 45 > 10mm in the G21 with a barrel and mag swap. Has anybody tried this? I've 'read' several reports of guys doing this but I'm not sure how reliability is affected.
 
I had a 1st gen G20 and did not like it at all. With such a light frame and my propensity to load them hot, at the end of the shooting day the muzzle whip left me wondering if I would have arthritis by the time I was 50 (answer: no). However I still have a S&W 610, and a compact EAA Witness. Both are fun but my favorite is the 610.

Am looking at doing an SBR on a Kriss Vector this year, it'll be interesting.
 
as far as i know, the history of the 10mm began back in the 90's after that fatal FBI shootout in florida. The FBI was looking for a new caliber to replace the 9mm. 45 was already out of the question. so manufactures made up a 10mm. the ballistics are great especially with +P type rounds, but as stated, it kicked a bit to much, and was harder to control than even the 45. so it never really took off. Then S&W took the 10mm cartridge and shortened it. just a bit. and marketed the 40 S&W (short and week) as called by 10mm lovers. as the best of both worlds, meaning having a higher energy output than the 9, and being able to have the capacity of a standard 9mm of that time. so it lay somewhere in-between the 9mm and 45 worlds. since then 40 has exploded. I admit i bought into the hype for awhile (i used to have a hk usp in 40 cal) i liked it. (except for the stupid mag release which on occasion i would hit accidentally and end up dropping the mag when not meaning to, thus the reason i don't have it anymore) - it may have been a problem with my grip, yes, but i lost my confidence and it had to go)

that brings us to today. 10mm has been one of the fabled rounds for almost 30 years now. and manufactures are beginning to produce them again. but even ammo is not super easy to find (as compared to 9mm/45/40 sw)

can you find parts/mags/barrels - yes to some degree,i predict that it will make a comeback. (kinda like 300 whisper is now 300 BLK and everybody thinks its new and cool, when in fact its been around for awhile)

I do believe a 45 can is large enough for the 10mm (which is essentially a 40 SW with a greater charge)
 
10mm is a superb round if you want to really punch through stuff.
While the Glock is an okay choice, if you really want some fun, get the Sig P220
The Sig P220 is an amazing pistol in 10mm, it feels way better than the 1911 versions and fits your hand so much better than the Glock.

Then get yourself some Underwood ammo for it and be amazed at the energies you can get out of it.
1700fps 738 ft. lbs energy
 
Yasherka said:
I had a 1st gen G20 and did not like it at all. With such a light frame and my propensity to load them hot, at the end of the shooting day the muzzle whip left me wondering if I would have arthritis by the time I was 50 (answer: no). However I still have a S&W 610, and a compact EAA Witness. Both are fun but my favorite is the 610.

Am looking at doing an SBR on a Kriss Vector this year, it'll be interesting.
Click to expand...

I too am interested in the kriss or other sbr type route if they can come up with a reliable mag extension like the 45. Never tried the Taylor ones.
 
MWM-5150 said:
So the consensus seems to be "get the 10mm." In looking into it a little further, it seems you can switch from 45 > 10mm in the G21 with a barrel and mag swap. Has anybody tried this? I've 'read' several reports of guys doing this but I'm not sure how reliability is affected.
Click to expand...

I have, and have posted about it on other sites so you may have read some of my stuff. In short - 10mm in the G21 works OK for occasional use and with something less than full nuclear level loads, but for more frequent use and/or hot loads you really want the correct 10mm slide. The G21 slide is lighter than the G20 slide, and that affects unlock timing and slide speed. Full power 10mm in a Glock can use as much slide mass as you can get; the model 40 is heavier than the 20, and an aftermarket solid top long slide like LoneWolf makes (or made?) is heavier yet. My 6" LW solid slide actually tames the 10mm down pretty well and it's very manageable to shoot top end loads fast and accurately.
 
Sig makes a camo hunter pistol in 10mm that is really sick. It is crazy heavy and the slide is about twice as hard to rack as most autos. I haven't shot it but I would think with all that heft, it should tame the round pretty well
 
Yondering said:
I have, and have posted about it on other sites so you may have read some of my stuff. In short - 10mm in the G21 works OK for occasional use and with something less than full nuclear level loads, but for more frequent use and/or hot loads you really want the correct 10mm slide. The G21 slide is lighter than the G20 slide, and that affects unlock timing and slide speed. Full power 10mm in a Glock can use as much slide mass as you can get; the model 40 is heavier than the 20, and an aftermarket solid top long slide like LoneWolf makes (or made?) is heavier yet. My 6" LW solid slide actually tames the 10mm down pretty well and it's very manageable to shoot top end loads fast and accurately.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the insight. I had figured there would be some sacrifices in performance trying to get both out of the same gun. Seems like a dedicated 10mm would be the best option. I had no idea sig made a 10mm 220 so now Im really perplexed. Something about 15 rounds of 10mm in the glock is just really appealing to me, but the 220 or a 1911 sounds like it would be a more controllable package.
 
5RWannabe said:
as far as i know, the history of the 10mm began back in the 90's after that fatal FBI shootout in florida. The FBI was looking for a new caliber to replace the 9mm. 45 was already out of the question. so manufactures made up a 10mm. the ballistics are great especially with +P type rounds, but as stated, it kicked a bit to much, and was harder to control than even the 45. so it never really took off. Then S&W took the 10mm cartridge and shortened it. just a bit. and marketed the 40 S&W (short and week) as called by 10mm lovers. as the best of both worlds, meaning having a higher energy output than the 9, and being able to have the capacity of a standard 9mm of that time. so it lay somewhere in-between the 9mm and 45 worlds. since then 40 has exploded. I admit i bought into the hype for awhile (i used to have a hk usp in 40 cal) i liked it. (except for the stupid mag release which on occasion i would hit accidentally and end up dropping the mag when not meaning to, thus the reason i don't have it anymore) - it may have been a problem with my grip, yes, but i lost my confidence and it had to go)

that brings us to today. 10mm has been one of the fabled rounds for almost 30 years now. and manufactures are beginning to produce them again. but even ammo is not super easy to find (as compared to 9mm/45/40 sw)

can you find parts/mags/barrels - yes to some degree,i predict that it will make a comeback. (kinda like 300 whisper is now 300 BLK and everybody thinks its new and cool, when in fact its been around for awhile)

I do believe a 45 can is large enough for the 10mm (which is essentially a 40 SW with a greater charge)
Click to expand...

Very good info, 5R.

However, at the time of the Miami shootout, the 10mm already existed... but was more of a wildcat. After the FBI shootout, the FBI adopted the 1076 to replace their wheelguns. They wanted .357 Magnum ballistics, but insisted on an auto. BTW, the agents killed were using Model 65's and in the post-shoot assessment, the FBI regarded the reload times as too long. HOWEVER... the reload times with speedloaders would not have been a problem. But part of the issue was training. The agents in the gunfight... in part due to muscle memory and range officers who insisted that brass get picked up when ejected... had been actually picking up their brass after ejecting in the middle of that shootout.... train the way you expect to fight. It was an appalling revelation that changed training across a lot of agencies and departments.

Unfortunately, the 1076, which was a superb gun -- I still have mine -- was considered 'too large for female agents.' And the gun and the 10mm guns were dropped after just a couple of years.

But the ballistics on the 10mm are fantastic. Not far short of a .44 magnum from a very, very reliable auto.

The first big 'publicity' for the 10mm, BTW, was Miami Vice. Sonny Crockett carried a Bren 10. Which was the first gun mass-marketed to chamber the 10mm. Not long after, Colt came out with their 10MM Delta Elite. A gun I still lust after.

It's a great caliber. I reload for my 1076. Buy one! You won't be disappointed.

Cheers,

Sirhr

P.S. I carried a .40 for 13 years. It's a fine caliber. Accurate, gentle, good stopping power. Not the 'cannon' of a 10mm. But I have no issues with the .40. And, apparently, it's fine to fit in girly hands and all. And my 1076 was not a duty gun. I bought it personally at the time the FBI adopted them... and carried it for a long time.
 
sirhrmechanic said:
, at the time of the Miami shootout, the 10mm already existed... but was more of a wildcat. After the FBI shootout, the FBI adopted the 1076 to replace their wheelguns.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the clarification and further explanation SIR! I forgot about the reloading/brass issue, and didn't know that the 10mm was already in production.

and if you ever want to sell that 1076 let me know! although an old sig 220 in 10mm wins my heart too. ( i do love the feel of an all metal frame)
 
Last edited:
^^^ I still have my Model 65, too. It's an amazing revolver. .357 and accurate as a GAP... within its cartridge limitations... Also not a duty gun. Just something I happened to have and shoot a lot for a long time before moving to the 1076. I was in marketing.

Cheers,

Sirhr
 
5RWannabe said:
and if you ever want to sell that 1076 let me know!
Click to expand...

That's one I'll hang on to... Bureau issue... Tritium sights. Mine's got a couple of interesting features, including a polished trigger and some other polished parts. But supposedly none were made that way. But mine showed up that way out of the box. Roy Jinks says it might have been a special order or customized for some bureau bigwig. But paperwork does not say that. It's supposed to be a box-stock 1076. So it's a mystery. But damn does that gun shoot. I carried it for years in a Galco.

1076's show up on GB occasionally. They are worth owning.

Cheers,

Sirhr
 
SGM Tactical has a .45ACP Hi Cap Mag that can run 10mm by pinching the metal/plastic feed lip & filing the bulge at the 45 label.
HOLDS 30 rounds 10mm
[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/www.hunt101.com\/data\/500\/medium\/G20sgmTact.jpg"}[/IMG2]
 
MWM-5150 said:
Something about 15 rounds of 10mm in the glock is just really appealing to me, but the 220 or a 1911 sounds like it would be a more controllable package.
Click to expand...

Having owned or currently own 10's in 1911, Glock, and EAA Witness, in my experience the Glock is as controllable as any of them, and maybe a little milder than a single stack 1911 but that's subjective. I have not shot the 220 in 10mm although I had one in .45; I doubt it's any more controllable than the G20. Everybody has their preferences on what's best, but in my experience there wasn't a big difference in recoil or muzzle flip between any of them, unless you go with a long slide which tames things down quite a bit.
 
If you need lots of capacity, you could spend the money and stump up to the STI perfect 10 (2011 frame) and get the 170mm magazines for it... 20 rounds of 10mm.... you'll be hard.

I shot the Glock 20 and it works, but just felt way too much like a jumpy brick.
The 1911 style 10mm versions are decent and you can get some well equipped cheap ones from Armscor, or expensive ones from STI, Dan Weston and others.
But the Sig P220 Elite model just feels so much better than both of them.
Then the STI perfect 10 is well... perfect... but it's a huge gun.

The first time you see it punch through 1/10th inch steel with enough energy to get the job done on the other side, you'll be in love.
 
I have no experience with the Glock 10mm varieties. I have a Kimber Eclipse.

I love the round. No, it is NOT "almost" a 44Mag, in fact, apples to apples, it is not as close to the 41Mag as most people claim. But 155gr bullets at 1500+ fps is no joke. I don't recall my 200gr load velocities offhand, but I did shoot a buck with my Kimber last fall. Stalked up on him bedded, but three rounds in the boiler room at about 15-20 yards before he could get to his feet.

Out of a full size steel frame gun, I don't have any issues controlling full power loads. I can shoot a 5" 1911 in 10mm about as quickly as a 40 or 9mm in lighter, more CCW-friendly formats. I've even timed running a plate rack with the 10mm 1911 and a CZ75 Shadow 9mm and times were practically the same. I guess I'm a freak. I'm sure the results would not have been the same one-handed though.

Again, no Glock experience. In the 1911 format I replaced the firing pin stop, installed a heavier hammer spring, and slightly heavier recoil spring. The brass went from sub-orbital to landing in the next county.

I do NOT shoot my 10mm in places I'll lose the brass. In fact I shoot it almost exclusively in my shooting house where the brass all lands on the floor. Otherwise it would get expensive.

FWIW, the coated Missouri Bullets lead bullets can be shot at full velocity in my 10mm and not lead the barrel...
 
spaniel said:
I love the round. No, it is NOT "almost" a 44Mag, in fact, apples to apples, it is not as close to the 41Mag as most people claim.
Click to expand...

I agree with you on the 41 Mag comparison, unless you compare guns of the same overall size. That means G20 size compared to a ~3"-3.5" 41 Mag revolver, something like a Taurus Tracker. In that comparison, a G20 or 1911 in 10mm can compare very well, in my experience, and do it with less flash and recoil.

With a bud's Tracker .41 and one of my 10mm autos, we actually compared with the same 210gr WFN cast bullet just sized down to .401 for the 10mm, and max handloads for both. H110 for the .41 Mag and AA9 for the 10mm, IIRC. I forget what the velocity was but they were right about the same, with a definite advantage to the 10mm for flash, recoil, and follow up shots.

The 41 pulls ahead with longer barrels though. If you compare similar barrel lengths the 41 is far superior, but a 5" revolver is larger and longer than a 5" 1911.
 
spaniel said:
I have no experience with the Glock 10mm varieties. I have a Kimber Eclipse.

I love the round. No, it is NOT "almost" a 44Mag, in fact, apples to apples, it is not as close to the 41Mag as most people claim. But 155gr bullets at 1500+ fps is no joke. I don't recall my 200gr load velocities offhand, but I did shoot a buck with my Kimber last fall. Stalked up on him bedded, but three rounds in the boiler room at about 15-20 yards before he could get to his feet.

Out of a full size steel frame gun, I don't have any issues controlling full power loads. I can shoot a 5" 1911 in 10mm about as quickly as a 40 or 9mm in lighter, more CCW-friendly formats. I've even timed running a plate rack with the 10mm 1911 and a CZ75 Shadow 9mm and times were practically the same. I guess I'm a freak. I'm sure the results would not have been the same one-handed though.

Again, no Glock experience. In the 1911 format I replaced the firing pin stop, installed a heavier hammer spring, and slightly heavier recoil spring. The brass went from sub-orbital to landing in the next county.

I do NOT shoot my 10mm in places I'll lose the brass. In fact I shoot it almost exclusively in my shooting house where the brass all lands on the floor. Otherwise it would get expensive.

FWIW, the coated Missouri Bullets lead bullets can be shot at full velocity in my 10mm and not lead the barrel...
Click to expand...

This is a helpful perspective. What necessitated the mods to your Kimber? Was this for piece of mind or what the gun not performing in some way aside from the wicked extraction? I found a used G20 locally for a steal that I probably should have bought, but I'm now reluctant to do so until I am able to try out the 10mm in a couple of different platforms, one being the 1911. RIA has a pretty well equipped 10mm that has my interest, although I have no experience with RIA and haven't always heard the greatest things about their quality and reliability. I'm learning that 10mm are hard to find and try here locally since it isn't one of the 'big 3' pistol calibers.
 
FWIW, if you have lots of time on your hands, the 10mm brass was originally derived by cutting down .308 winchester brass
 
MWM-5150 said:
This is a helpful perspective. What necessitated the mods to your Kimber? Was this for piece of mind or what the gun not performing in some way aside from the wicked extraction? I found a used G20 locally for a steal that I probably should have bought, but I'm now reluctant to do so until I am able to try out the 10mm in a couple of different platforms, one being the 1911. RIA has a pretty well equipped 10mm that has my interest, although I have no experience with RIA and haven't always heard the greatest things about their quality and reliability. I'm learning that 10mm are hard to find and try here locally since it isn't one of the 'big 3' pistol calibers.
Click to expand...

I shot only half a box of factory ammo from the gun prior to modifications, to make sure it was functional. It was. The modifications were made to slow down the slide velocity to something more reasonable and reduce the likelihood of frame battering. Most people make the mistake of installing too heavy a recoil spring. In the 1911, it is more effective and easier on the gun to install the heavier hammer spring and flat bottom firing pin stop to sap energy out of the slide as it goes back; making the recoil spring too heavy hammers the frame upon return to battery.

One has to remember that most factory 10mm loads (except Underwood and Buffalo Bore) are only modestly more powerful than 40SW. Therefore guns must be under-sprung or they may not function with factory ammo. I reload and shoot exclusively full power handloads, hence the mods.
 
fdkay said:
FWIW, if you have lots of time on your hands, the 10mm brass was originally derived by cutting down .308 winchester brass
Click to expand...

No, it wasn't, a 308 is way too big for the 10mm.

It was based on the old 30 Remington case, which is also what the 6.8 SPC is based on. The case heads are not identical though.
 
spaniel said:
Most people make the mistake of installing too heavy a recoil spring. In the 1911, it is more effective and easier on the gun to install the heavier hammer spring and flat bottom firing pin stop to sap energy out of the slide as it goes back; making the recoil spring too heavy hammers the frame upon return to battery.

One has to remember that most factory 10mm loads (except Underwood and Buffalo Bore) are only modestly more powerful than 40SW. Therefore guns must be under-sprung or they may not function with factory ammo. I reload and shoot exclusively full power handloads, hence the mods.
Click to expand...

+1, those are two excellent points to make for anyone considering a 10mm.
 
I have a Glock 20 that has a stainless guide rod installed and it is not bad at all in terms of recoil. I have had to use it before on a hog hunt, and with full power hand loads it will put one down. I have had a little interest in the 1911 platform lately as well.
 
I had a Sign TacOps 45 and sold it for my first Glock. It is a G20 an I love it. Excellent accuracy, a tremendous amount of after market parts and support, etc. I have no use for a 45 or a 1911. My G20 is a woods gun. I replaced the trigger, put on some tritium sights and am more than happy
 
fdkay said:
FWIW, if you have lots of time on your hands, the 10mm brass was originally derived by cutting down .308 winchester brass
Click to expand...

The cartridge you are thinking of is the .44 Automag, which is a cut-down 308 case.

Fortunately, now you can buy .44 AMP brass pre-made. But for a while, it was a PITA to cut down casings.

Cheers,

Sirhr
 
W54/XM-388 said:
If you need lots of capacity, you could spend the money and stump up to the STI perfect 10 (2011 frame) and get the 170mm magazines for it... 20 rounds of 10mm.... you'll be hard.

I shot the Glock 20 and it works, but just felt way too much like a jumpy brick.
The 1911 style 10mm versions are decent and you can get some well equipped cheap ones from Armscor, or expensive ones from STI, Dan Weston and others.
But the Sig P220 Elite model just feels so much better than both of them.
Then the STI perfect 10 is well... perfect... but it's a huge gun.

The first time you see it punch through 1/10th inch steel with enough energy to get the job done on the other side, you'll be in love.
Click to expand...


A sig p220 elite 10mm is on my list, love my 45, but want something with a little more umph.
 
I've been looking for a Glock 20 slide complete for quite a while to us on my 21. The few that I've seen are almost the price of a new gun however...
 
mrtoyz said:
I've been looking for a Glock 20 slide complete for quite a while to us on my 21. The few that I've seen are almost the price of a new gun however...
Click to expand...

I had the same idea at first as well. When going that route it's much cheaper to have the G20 first, then get a G21 upper for it. G20 uppers are much fewer than the G21's.

I do like the idea of the P220 Hunter in 10mm. I'm not really a fan of Kryptek, but it actually looks really good to me.

Dave
 
That's a good point.
I have one of the pic rail/ambi 21's and thought it would be super cool to have both slides for that frame.
 
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