Long story short I've been shooting 178 ELD M for a couple years. Had a load worked out. Switched to Lapua brass(it's a 308 by the way) and redid load work up. Groups went to crap. Went from half MOA to 1.5 to 2. Redid load workup with once fired brass and still crap. No other changes. FGMM still shoots half MOA. Only other thing is I opened a new box of bullets. Any ideas?
- Thread starter moosemeat
- Start date
Starts with simple things, things that don’t cost money. check and torque everything. Base, Rings, scope, action.
Then move on to the round... any lot changes with primers? Powder?
What dies are you using? FL size ?
Shoulders on lapua brass same as previous brass?
Then move on to the round... any lot changes with primers? Powder?
What dies are you using? FL size ?
Shoulders on lapua brass same as previous brass?
What brass were you using before? Your case capacity may have changed?
So FWIW, I had a similar issue with Hornady AMaxs in 6.5mm a few years ago when they switched from AMax to ELD and it was super hard to locate 140s ELDs.
Basically, first two lots of 200 each shot GREAT (1/2MOA) then I ran out and opened new lot (3rd batch in this gun). Groups opened from 1/2moa to 1.25moa avg for 3rd lot. Spent 180 bullets trying to chase my tail with seating depth, powder charge, brass, neck tension, cleaning rifle thoroughly, primers...you name it.
Called Hornady and was able to get a tech to provide the testing group size for the first two lots (.4" @ 200yds) and for the crap lot (.9" @ 200). Basically, I saw the exact same change in my rifle as they did in their test barrel in a wind tunnel.
They still passed QC but during the shortage it seemed like they made the decision to allow a few "extra" bullets through to keep up with demand. Bottom line: if nothing has changed but the lot of the bullet....it's probably the bullet.
They offered to swap out for a new lot (in my case) but I declined politely and just used them for paper practice. If you have a good number left, you might call them and see about getting them replaced.
Basically, first two lots of 200 each shot GREAT (1/2MOA) then I ran out and opened new lot (3rd batch in this gun). Groups opened from 1/2moa to 1.25moa avg for 3rd lot. Spent 180 bullets trying to chase my tail with seating depth, powder charge, brass, neck tension, cleaning rifle thoroughly, primers...you name it.
Called Hornady and was able to get a tech to provide the testing group size for the first two lots (.4" @ 200yds) and for the crap lot (.9" @ 200). Basically, I saw the exact same change in my rifle as they did in their test barrel in a wind tunnel.
They still passed QC but during the shortage it seemed like they made the decision to allow a few "extra" bullets through to keep up with demand. Bottom line: if nothing has changed but the lot of the bullet....it's probably the bullet.
They offered to swap out for a new lot (in my case) but I declined politely and just used them for paper practice. If you have a good number left, you might call them and see about getting them replaced.
Also, I didn't switch brass initially though, so it may be as @Colt1776 said and simply a case volume issue. But if you already redid load workup from -1gr back up to initial load, its probably bullets.
If not, be sure to Chrono and see if you can find charge to match the speed of old load. Probably put you in the wheel house.
If not, be sure to Chrono and see if you can find charge to match the speed of old load. Probably put you in the wheel house.
I was shooting Winchester brass. That's why I started from scratch with the load work up. I am thinking on switching to Sierra bullets anyways. Tomorrow I will go measure the bullet bearing surface and see if they have some variance or something. I will also call Hornaday tomorrow.
You changed brass (case volume) and Bullets (different lot?).
While Lapua brass May be the cats meow, it is not magical. I’ve had mixed results with it, even when the other brands of brass I was using varied considerably more, they still out shot the Lapua brass by a good bit.
Lapua brass is typically heavier and thus has a reduced powder capacity which will affect your load.
With the responses above, sounds like that new box of bullets is to blame, especially when known loads are still shooting well.
Best of luck!
While Lapua brass May be the cats meow, it is not magical. I’ve had mixed results with it, even when the other brands of brass I was using varied considerably more, they still out shot the Lapua brass by a good bit.
Lapua brass is typically heavier and thus has a reduced powder capacity which will affect your load.
With the responses above, sounds like that new box of bullets is to blame, especially when known loads are still shooting well.
Best of luck!
dumb question......and here goes.......just how many rounds down the tube, and what sort of barrel, stock or custom?
Probably 2000 rounds. Stock chrome lined FN SPR. Cleaned mid season this summer and had a carbon ring and cleaned after every match after. Jump has grown maybe .002 since new. Barrel has been bore scoped (hence knowing it had carbon). The barrel is not near shot out. I actually won a best group match with it as the last match of the year(.243 inches).
I know Papua has less case capacity but switched to it for the case life and all the other crap. I want expecting it to suddenly shoot better. But didn't expect it to go to shit either.
I know Papua has less case capacity but switched to it for the case life and all the other crap. I want expecting it to suddenly shoot better. But didn't expect it to go to shit either.
I actually did shoot it through the magnetospeed and I had loads in the node for speed but the ES and SD are high and the groups stuck. 2625 seems to be the magic number and I shot loads from 2500 to 2675.
Win has more volume than Lapua. A load developed in Win brass gonna have a heavier powder charge. You prolly were working in the high node with a Win brass. Now you will have to drop down to the low node in a Lapua brass. No, they won’t have the same velocity.
I am putting $2 on the bullets then. Even if of I ves are similar, if bullets are out of round slightly, or have weak spot in jacket, might explain the weirdness.
The only other possible thing to check is if your scale magically took a dump. Friends of mine had some powder day into the tray hole in his scale and readings would swing -+.2-.3 grains.
Keep us posted.
So I think I may have stumbled onto something. The shaft that holds the expander button on my die has significant run out. I stuck a case about the time I switched to Lapua brass(right before) and think I may have bumped it when I was extracting the case. Found that be the issue? About .008. My case concintricity gauge is loaned out to a friend right now. So can't measure loaded ammo.
It's possible. Only way to tell is to get a new expander or complete die and see if it helps.
If you don't know when the expander went sideways though, impossible to know for sure. Fix/replace it and see I guess.
Think I'm going to use this as a opportunity to upgrade dies and switch to sierra bullets.
