Advanced Marksmanship Eliminating variables???

[rum]

I've read through and done my best to practice the tips that I've seen here about shooting position, etc and they truly help but I am curious as to what a person can do to eliminate variables for shooting in less than perfect conditions. Tonight, I decided to shoot groups at 100yds and the effects of cheek weld, body position, and how I grip the rifle became very apparent. In the end, I was able to shoot a group that satisfied my but I had to really have my ducks in a row, so to speak. Is there anything that can be done to a rifle or shooting style to help reduce the effects of less than perfect form? I am shooting a surgeon remedy in .338 lapua with a mcmillan a-5 with a loggerhead cheek piece and a fb brake. My bipod is a harris with pod claws. Scope is a NF 5.5-22x56 and I do have a level. Tonight I was shooting prone in my friends lawn with my bipod and a rear bag. My groups were consistantly .75moa but, when I made sure I did everything right, the group was one dime sized hole. I really think its a follow through issue and I do my best but, when I am hunting, I know that there will be times when I mess up so I'd like to reduce the effects if at all possible.
One last question. When removing a stock for cleaning, how much poi shift is normal after putting things back together? How much of a shift would indicate that the bedding should be checked out?

 

[vman]

Re: Eliminating variables???

Rum, practice dry firing and cheek weld whenever possible.

Try to keep those eyes open when you let that round go. Getting to this stage consistantly means your mentally prepared for the shot and your chances of reacting physically prior to the shot, will be reduced.

I discovered that even with my 17hmr, in my early stages I was closing my eyes for split seconds whilst the trigger was squeezed... I didnt notice at the start because i closed my eyes for milliseconds. This is part of shot anticipation. Eventually i realised that from time to time i would see a "vapour trail" go down range when i fired. Eventually i realised this happened every time however the times that I anticipated the shot and closed my eyes I never noticed.

I have also noticed that If i train myself to keep my eyes open and my body relaxed and not anticipate the shot, my accuracy tends to be a lot better. Generally if i blink during a shot i have also done something else in error such as a slight trigger pull and this becomes evident in my groups.

In regards to your pod claws, on the lawn these are all good, and on the dirt also, but on a bench, not so good.

Regarding the removal of your action from the stock, for cleaning purposes, I cant comment exactly on how this will affect your rifle, as this depends on a few factors.

Things such as v-blocks and consistant torque settings will reduce the chances of shift of POI, however not all rifles have V-block bedding systems. If you can, use a torque wrench to get that tightness to the same degree every time.

Changes in POI may or may not be significant, it just depends on the setup.

Perhaps a more experienced stock builder or smith could step in and shed some more light on your query

 

[BobinNC]

Re: Eliminating variables???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rum</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've read through and done my best to practice the tips that I've seen here about shooting position, etc and they truly help but I am curious as to what a person can do to eliminate variables for shooting in less than perfect conditions. Tonight, I decided to shoot groups at 100yds and the effects of cheek weld, body position, and how I grip the rifle became very apparent. In the end, I was able to shoot a group that satisfied my but I had to really have my ducks in a row, so to speak. Is there anything that can be done to a rifle or shooting style to help reduce the effects of less than perfect form? I am shooting a surgeon remedy in .338 lapua with a mcmillan a-5 with a loggerhead cheek piece and a fb brake. My bipod is a harris with pod claws. Scope is a NF 5.5-22x56 and I do have a level. Tonight I was shooting prone in my friends lawn with my bipod and a rear bag. My groups were consistantly .75moa but, when I made sure I did everything right, the group was one dime sized hole. I really think its a follow through issue and I do my best but, when I am hunting, I know that there will be times when I mess up so I'd like to reduce the effects if at all possible.
One last question. When removing a stock for cleaning, how much poi shift is normal after putting things back together? How much of a shift would indicate that the bedding should be checked out?
</div></div>

Rum,

Really the only thing you can do to improve consistency is to take some tactical shooting lessons. In this case practice does not make you perfect, only perfect practice can do that.

Take some lessons with a professional, that will drill you in shooting supported and unsupported, in all positions. Breathing, trigger control, and finding your natural point of aim, are important as well.

AS far as POI of impact shift when removing a stock for cleaning, let me share an anecdotal incident that I just experienced.

I recently sold one of my un-bedded H-S Precision stocks w/aluminum bedding block. And I went and bought a used AICS 2.0 stock for that rifle (Factory Rem 700 LTR in 308).

Well my rifle was well sighted in @ 100 yds when I removed the scope from the base, and took the action out of the old H-S Stock, and installed it in the newer AICS stock, and remounted the scope back on it's base.

Went to the range, did no bore-sighting, and just loaded up and fired 5 rounds to see how badly the POI changed.

I printed a 5 shot group, 0.9" low and 0.25" to the right. That was after removing and reattaching the scope, and putting the barreled action into a different stock.

This is a data point of one of course, and might just be a fluke, but it seems that a properly torqued aluminium bedding block stocks show minimal POI shift.

I would expect a properly bedded McMillian or Manners to also show a minimal POI shift upon stock removal with proper torqueing.

YMMV,

Bob

 

[rum]

Re: Eliminating variables???

Thanks for the input guys. I went up today and shot 100yds but the elevation was about 2000ft different than yesterday and about 15 degrees cooler. We went to an area that we hunt so my position wasn't nearly as comfortable and was realistic for what I expect when hunting. My POI was still high but the group was about 1/4" lower than yesterday. My group was right around .75moa. I did torque the stock today and the bolts were a little looser than they should have been so I will check it tomorrow.
I've been shooting quite a bit and working on consistency. Its not so much the consistency that is the problem because I am able to be pretty consistant while practicing but, with hunting season getting here soon, I thought I'd check to see if anything could be done that would help make errors caused by the situation and environment less critical. So far, I think it is going to boil down to muscle memory and trying to make perfect form and follow through a habit regardless of the situation. I make sure to keep the shot a surprise and I think I am keeping my eyes open but I am definately going to make it a point to check tomorrow.

 

[JamieD]

Re: Eliminating variables???

It's about attention to details and doing everything the excact same way everytime. Easier typed then done. To tell you the truth, that is real good shooting hovering at and under .75 prone. Exspecially with the bigger calibers, most don't shoot them that well.

I agree with the above, dryfiring. I often do this before I start my range work to get everything running in my mind. Another thing that has helped me personally is single shot drills. One shot per target regardless - then start making them smaller and smaller. It draws your concentration into the shot.

Good luck,

JamieD

______________________________
Jamie Dodson
Wolf Precision
814-262-7994

 

[rum]

Re: Eliminating variables???

Its funny that you mention the one shot targets because that is what got me to thinking about all of this. I saw the target that guys are using on here and my goal is to shoot one of those targets and hit every dot. It may take me $2000 in ammo to get there but I'll keep trying.

 

[vman]

Re: Eliminating variables???

Keep at it rum

Practical Tactical target is what your after

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Eliminating variables???

CAREFUL:

Only change one item at a time. That way, you know what works and dosn't work, what was broke and what wasnt broke.