Hunting & Fishing Elk Hunting Newbie - book recommendations?

[ToddM]

So I was drawn for my first elk hunt here in NV. Done a lot of deer hunting over the years but no elk hunting. Going to check with the BLM and G&F in my hunting area for advice as well but I was wondering if others had ran across good books on elk hunting tactics/trends/etc. Any other advice is appreciated as well. If nothing else it's a "good" excuse to have another rifle built

Thanks!

 

[CoCaDoRi]

Re: Elk Hunting Newbie - book recommendations?

A book can't teach you what you need to know.

 

[B.Bates]

Re: Elk Hunting Newbie - book recommendations?

i enjoy the Eastmans line of books, also im a big Cameron Hanes fan and love his writings.

i would subscribe to both eastmans and huntin' fool magazines

they both provide a ton of good useful information

 

[Moof]

Re: Elk Hunting Newbie - book recommendations?

Watch as much Elk huntin videos as u can... Get between the bull and the caller for best results... My .02

 

[Phil1]

Re: Elk Hunting Newbie - book recommendations?

Here is a good older book.
"Bugling for Elk" by Dwight Schuh

It's bowhunting book but lots of tips. You can find it used for $3-$5

Just google it.

 

[vmts4me]

Re: Elk Hunting Newbie - book recommendations?

In a perfect world: find an outfitter that does elk hunts, pack for him until he lets you guide for him. (If only I had the time to do so

)
Spend as much time as possible in the area you are going to hunt.

 

[ARodPDT117]

Re: Elk Hunting Newbie - book recommendations?

lancer said it....scout, scout and more scouting it will get you in tune with the animals in that area and give you a little elk experience while you are doing it.

every time I am out elk hunting I learn something new just from being around them...but they still manage to bust me a lot of the time

good luck

 

[Jimmym40a2]

Re: Elk Hunting Newbie - book recommendations?

I have been elk hunting or 17 years and mose videos you watch are not realistic. Most are hunting on private ranches. If you hunt on public lands it's a whole new ball game.

 

[CoCaDoRi]

Re: Elk Hunting Newbie - book recommendations?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lancer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In a perfect world: find an outfitter that does elk hunts, pack for him until he lets you guide for him. (If only I had the time to do so

)
Spend as much time as possible in the area you are going to hunt. </div></div>Only possible if you have a foundation with horses and camps...

Other than that you're shit outta luck.

Even if you have horse experience the first year or so you're just gonna be a wrangler and a meat jockey

 

[vmts4me]

Re: Elk Hunting Newbie - book recommendations?

Yeah I guess it would take forever. Weda I never gave indication of a time frame to get that accomplished.

 

[CoCaDoRi]

Re: Elk Hunting Newbie - book recommendations?

hehe... you also forgot to mention, the blood, sweat and near death experiences whilst in the learning phase... not to mention days without sleep, and the sudden and dramatic weight loss from the anxiety

 

[psinclair]

Re: Elk Hunting Newbie - book recommendations?

And......replacing thrown shoes on a honky mule at 3AM with a mag light in you're mouth. Oh and its mid November and you've been in camp since mid September...ah but you gotta love it....grin!

 

[CoCaDoRi]

Re: Elk Hunting Newbie - book recommendations?

It's not so bad that it's 3 a.m. and you're tired and cold and the Mule has kicked 3 times, pulled back twice and one nail has ripped right through your chinks and now you're bleeding, it's that damn mag light freezing to your lips!

Then there's the days when you get up at 2:30 a.m. to your cattle dog ripping outta the tent like his hair is on fire making a straight line for the unmistakable sound of ole griz harassing the cook tent. Then you realize the picket mare blew up and ripped the picket stake outta the ground and is gone, and you can't hear any bells at all. You see that the corralled saddle horses broke out at the fear of getting swatted by ole griz....Knowing full well the trailhead is 15 miles down river. Not to mention your personal saddle horse was real sweet on the picketed mare.

Amidst the chaos the sound of no bells being heard is quite deafening.



yeah Elk hunting is easy... not to mention relaxing...

 

[ToddM]

Re: Elk Hunting Newbie - book recommendations?

Don't own any mules or horses so I don't have to worry about those problems, nor can I afford $7K for a guide, and if I could I still wouldn't hire one, that probably comes from my rock climbing background but I just have less respect for paying someone else to do all the work for you, whether it's being dragged up Mt. Everest by sherpas or having someone pack all your gear put you on horse take you to the elk and all you have to do is pull the trigger.

So I'll do my research a few weeks of scouting along the way, being local and having lots of time helps, a little flying, chat with the locals, have an in already in my work with the local wildlife biologist for my unit, and have access to aerial/satellite data the public does not, get in as good of shape as possible which won't be a problem as it's easy to get up to to over 11,000 locally, and go from there.

If elk hunting was easy, what would be the point? Then again I forgot most people these days prefer easy and expensive over hard work.

 

[CoCaDoRi]

Re: Elk Hunting Newbie - book recommendations?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">or having someone pack all your gear put you on horse take you to the elk and all you have to do is pull the trigger.</div></div>

If it were only that simple... and easy...

There are outfitters who have drop camps. I had 2. Just for they guys who thought the fees were too expensive and that they could easily get it done on there own.

Simply, a drop camp is this.

A designated camping site. You bring your own equipment, supplies, food, etc. I charged you by the mule, by the day, to get you, your buddies and your equipment etc. to the camp.

I then came back on a designated day to retrieve you , your buddies and your equipment. Or quite possibly what ever you killed as well.
Again, by the mule, by the day fee.

The biologist will be more apt to give you usable information. The locals might not be so eager. Don't go looking to hard for Elk above tree line. ( 10K )
I'm not sure how far you'll get or successful you think you'll be by hiking your camp in. Elk hunting is done in days...sometimes weeks. Not hours. If successful. It takes 2 mules to get 1 Elk out. that's 5 trips for 1 human.

I'd start looking for someone to pack you in.

 

[ToddM]

Re: Elk Hunting Newbie - book recommendations?

I have read and talked to people about the drop camps but it seems like they are way too hit and miss. I suppose the trick is to make sure you find a good guide, which seems to be the biggest probem. I continually hear horror stories about guides from hunters, even those that spent weeks trying to research and talk to as many guides as they could and their past clients before booking a hunt only to have it turn out to be a total cluster &#^$ when they arrived. From getting to a "furnished" camp that was nothing but a open patch of ground to being shuffled around to poor hunting spots or their guide exchanged for a hired hand because bigger dollar clients came in at the last minute.

Many outfitters from my understanding won't put you anywhere near the good elk if you are not are not their highest dollar paying customers so the drop camps end up in the worst places that are the easiest/closest for them to pack your gear into. In my unit in fact a few of the guide operations want you to stay in town instead of even doing a camp setup. That seemed pretty strange to me.

As a guide Weda maybe you could give your insight on any ways to make sure you locate/use a good reputable guide service? I realize that no guide can guarantee success 100% of the time but it seems like very difficult to make sure you even start with a good guide.

I don't expect it to be easy, or done in days, thankfully I have weeks of time I can spend in the area. If I am unsuccessful so be it, at least I did it on my own. I'm sure the elk won't be above the treelines, but if I had access to 14K peaks locally I'd train on them, it will make lower elevations that much easier.

 

[psinclair]

Re: Elk Hunting Newbie - book recommendations?

Back in 2004 I finally drew a Missuori breaks bull permit...it took 25 years of trying. This is a photo of a bull I found in my unit in August of that year. I saw this bull twice before archery season opened, looked for him with a bow for 4 straight weeks and never got an eye on him again until late October. He had traveled over 15 air miles through some of the toughest country in the breaks. I back packed in 7 miles and camped on him...as luck would have it I killed him opening day of rifle season as the sun was just coming up. I was alone with one hell of a chore ahead of me. My camp, some meat, and the antlers came out on the first trip. I went back to town and recruited 2 friends to go back in with me with empty packs. The 3 of us carried heavy packs out that evening getting back to the truck with dead batteries in our flashlights. I went back in the next day and finished it up with a pack mule.

My advice to you is scout the unit extensivly, staring in July. I assume you will be hunting with a rifle, if so the season probably opens after the rut is over. Big bulls after rut like some solitude and are often alone and can be difficult to find. But once you locate them that time of year they usually stay put, unless bumped by other hunters or scouters...be careful when you find him and dont be tempted to get too close. Practice with your rifle a lot...it will give you confidence when the time comes. Lastly, enjoy it!! Getting the chance to hunt big bulls in a draw unit doesnt come around very often!!

Good luck, ToddM!!

 

[psinclair]

Re: Elk Hunting Newbie - book recommendations?

This is where he ended up after taking a 120 grain partition out of my Sako .257 Weatherby. Shot was 385 yards.

 

[CoCaDoRi]

Re: Elk Hunting Newbie - book recommendations?

Find the outfitters in the area you want to hunt.
Ask them for a client list successful and unsuccessful hunters.
The spend some time on the phone.
If they give you three of each ... ask for more.
Ask if they hunt resident herds or migratory.

Take PGS' advice and use it. If it is an area known to produce big bulls I'd be in that area every free moment.

Big bulls will travel, little bulls and satellites will travel as well.

Get a good GPS and TOPO maps. When you are scouting make notes in the GPS and on the topo. Hopefully you'll see some patterns.

Research the outfitters via the client lists. Remember that guys who had a horrible time are more likely to spout off than the guys who slammed a monster and wants to go back.

Anything 325 or bigger is a damn fine Bull.


I was just looking through my old records...

I set a few drop camps within 7 miles of my base camp. ( not very far at all.. some would say to close ) 37% of the guys were successful as a DIY(drop) camp.
The only reason they weren't more successful is the lack of preparation.

I had a group of 4 I dropped and looking back at the records 3 of the 4 killed a bull. If I am correct they scheduled 2 summer trips with me 1 trip was the year prior to the hunt and 1 was the year of the hunt.

So it can be done and done successfully. You,re now beginning to be in the window of "every second counts."

Keep shouting out here if you have more questions. PGS has a lot more experience than I. I'm willing to help in any way I can.

 

[ursus148]

Re: Elk Hunting Newbie - book recommendations?

try elk essentials by Bob Robb, not a bad book at all. Congratulations on your draw.

 

[psinclair]

Re: Elk Hunting Newbie - book recommendations?

Results of a DIY Elk hunt on public land in SW Montana. I was with a friend who also took a bull about this size.(on the count of three!) We boned them and backpacked the meat 3000 vertical down to the river.

If you are in good shape and have a strong back and some willing help you wont need to hire a packer.

 

[psinclair]

Re: Elk Hunting Newbie - book recommendations?

Another DIY public land hunt. Montana in mid Sepember. You will be in a race with time if its warm to get your meat back to town. Lucky for me I had a friend along and we were only 2 miles from the pickup. We did this small bull in 2 trips, 4 total loads.

 

[psinclair]

Re: Elk Hunting Newbie - book recommendations?

I pose with a bull taken in 2007.(370+ B&C) It was good to have some help along that day! Big mature bulls will weigh over 800 lbs on the hoof!

 

[ToddM]

Re: Elk Hunting Newbie - book recommendations?

Very nice PGS!!! I can't even fathom the experience of an elk hunt that would end in such a trophy.

Honestly I guess I'm luck in that I've always enjoyed the hard work and experience of hunting even if I don't fill my tag. Of course I want to do everything I'm able in the hopes of filling it.

Here's a few questions.

(1) What are your guys feelings on shooting rests/sticks?

I've never used them before and it seems to be a love/hate thing.
I've also heard many of them don't work well in the wet/cold (the leg locks won't hold etc). My hunt will be late Nov / early dec. so it's going to be cold and snowy. There's also the desire to keep things to a min. and go as light as possible.

(2) Just out of more curiosity, how much meat do you end up with from a bull that's say 800lbs on the hoof? Obviously if you quater it you have to carry bone as well, but just curious how much meat you end up with.

(3) Boots....I have a couple pair of cabelas meindl boots I've used for years a uninsulated set and a 400gr insulated pair. Since it's obviously going to be very cold in Nov/Dec at altitude is it better to get a pair of like 800-1200gr insulted hunting boots, I believe meindl makes a set or kenetrek. Or is better to go for a set of felt lined rubber/leather boots, like a higher quality sorel boot? It would seem the 800-1200gr hunting boots would be better for hiking but probably not as warm, especially since usually the toe box is not well insulated. The felt type sorel boot would be warmer, but probably less support for hiking.


Thanks again, I'll keep the questions coming as I come up with them.

 

[psinclair]

Re: Elk Hunting Newbie - book recommendations?

The North Face Hilton...grin. My VE 25 has served me well for many years. This was a solo hunt for elk in the Absaroka-Beartooth wilderness in Montana a few years back. I was 18 miles from the parking lot...never killed a bull but had a ball trying for 12 days!!

A guy wants to go light but you want a few creature comforts as well.

You may want to go in on an early scouting trip and cache a few provisions.

It sounds like you have quite a bit of backpacking-climbing experience so you know what to bring for an extended stay in the back country.

I'm not a big fan of shooting sticks but I have a set in my pack if I need to take a shot from a steep side hill. There is almost always a place to get prone when you need to...in my mind prone trumps everything else.

On a big mature herd bull from this part of the world you will get about 400 lbs of boned meat, plus the antlers and cape will be another 75 lbs. When backpacking meat I recommend not taking any bone(quarters) Completely de-bone it where you kill it. Take lots of game bags along. To save even more weight bring a light bone saw and remove the antlers from the skull. Of course dont forget the ivories! If you have a long haul, dont over do it! you will be better off to make an extra trip than risk getting injured carrying too much. I forgot to say, before you get the knives out take a crap load of pictures..savor the moment. Sometimes it takes 50 or 60 pics to get one "keeper".

As far as boots wear what is less likely to sore you up. And something you can get dry each night.More than likely you will moving around quite a bit during the day and your feet will probably stay warm from that.

 

[psinclair]

Re: Elk Hunting Newbie - book recommendations?

This pic maybe doesnt belong in an elk hunting thread but I thought I would throw it in to show that anything is possible if you want it bad enough. Made this hunt in Canada's Northwest Territories with another friend who was also guiding. It was an exploritory hunt, meaning this region had never been hunted....ever!! It took us 3 days to get above timberline with fully loaded backpacks. We killed rams on the 6th day. Also took a nice Mountain Goat. From the river where the float plane dropped us off we climbed up over 7500 vertical feet to where the sheep were.

My backpack is an old Dana designs Terraplane that I've had since 1987...its still great equipment today. The VE 25 kept the rain off us for 58 nights that year!

Taking the correct gear with you on an extreme hunt will be the difference. And will give you the edge!!

ToddM, What kind of optics are taking on your elk hunt?

 

[CoCaDoRi]

Re: Elk Hunting Newbie - book recommendations?

In addition to PGS' comments.

Find a place to build a cache. Be discrete.
Mountain House, MRE's, visqueen, and necessities that keep well.
Pack in pre-hunt, pack out left overs post hunt.

Wyoming saw:
collapses to 10" has a wood saw and a bone saw.
Expands to 15-16" when in use.
learn to debone +100
Small very sharp hatchet is a good idea.
A good knife or 2. Elk hide is thick.

If there's one thing I was sorry I didn't do more was take pictures. I never took enough.

your feet... if they arn't happy you are not happy. I changes socks twice daily. Sometimes 3 times. bio degradable soap and heat from the fire will keep them rotating nicely.

Schnee's pack boots. best I've ever owned
Meindle boots. Best boots I've ever owned.
BREAK YOUR BOOTS IN LONG BEFORE THE HUNT.

Find a water sorce to set camp near.

 

[ToddM]

Re: Elk Hunting Newbie - book recommendations?

PGS:

Optics that's a good ?.

Right now I have a set of swarovski 8.5x42 EL's and a STS80HD scope, and a leica CRF1200. In fact they are at swarovski right now being inspected/calibrated for this season. They actually recommend it yearly and cover it under warranty, but it's been 3 years since I sent mine in, gotta love em.

I'm thinking the sts80 might be too much to pack around (~56oz with eyepiece), so that is also on the list, if I want to find a compact scope or not. I know the older gold ring 20-25x leupold fixed scopes are highly regarded and are light/compact, they also have their newer 15-30x50mm gold ring. I've also heard nikon has a 13-30x50mm compact ED scope out that is supposed to be amazing. Either would drop at about 1.5lbs from my sts80, and the nikon would drop over 2 lbs. I'm sure they would also suffer in low light compared to the 80mm. So perhaps I'll take the weight penalty on the scope in favor of better optics and low light performance and get as light a tripod as possible that still offers a solid platform.

I'm also looking into lightweight tripods, I know gitzo makes a couple that end up in the 16" range folded and around 2 lbs, and tall enough to use seated on a slope without extending the center section. So with a good head still under 3lbs, and are supposed to be very stable and allow hanging weight from the center column for increased stability.

 

[psinclair]

Re: Elk Hunting Newbie - book recommendations?

Looks like you are tooled up with great optics! I would "nut up"and take that 80 with you. Thats about as fine a spotter as you can get. Your bino's are top notch as well.

What are you going to pack for a rifle?

 

[ToddM]

Re: Elk Hunting Newbie - book recommendations?

Weda:

I agree the Meindl's are the best boots I've found for my feet, I actually wear them hiking as well, there are lighter hiking options for sure, but the meindl's fit my feet just perfect. So much so I keep a new pair around to make sure I have a spare set.

I've heard really great things about the Schnee's but have never been able to try a set, everyone says they are the best compromise with pac boot warmth but enough support and fit to hike/hunt in.

PGS:

Yep I'm leaning toward just dealing with the weight of the 80 and getting a lighter tripod, If there is anything worth packing the weight optics is probably it.

Right now I'm working on finding a 180gr load my Browning A-bolt 30-06 synthetic likes, has a 2.5-8x VIII leupold on it, been my only deer and antelope gun for over 20 years. Normally it shoots the 150gr BTSP hornady/federal premium 150gr BTSP loads really well, 3/4" 5 shot groups or so, but the 180gr loads I've tried have not been shooting well at all. Not sure if I haven't found the right load yet, or if the twist rate just isn't going to like heavier bullets.

So far I've tried:

Hornady 180gr light mag BTSP's (it's fav 150gr load)
Hornady 180gr SST
Fed prem 180 nosler accubond and partitions

I also have a box of Remington Scirocco 180's to try as well on the next range trip.

The accubond's shot the best around 1.25-1.5" but the others were around 2". I swapped back to the 150gr hornady thinking it was me or just a bad day, but they again shot well under 1". I think I may also try a couple 165gr loads see if they do better at a lighter weight.

So if I don't find a load for the 06' I'm thinking of trying a Tikka T3 or Sako 85 finnlight in 300 win mag.

 

[psinclair]

Re: Elk Hunting Newbie - book recommendations?

ToddM, you're well on you're way!!

I've seen big bulls shot with all of the bullets you are testing and you wont go wrong with any of them. I'm sure the right load will come along.

I'll bet you're getting fired up! I've hunted Nevada 3 times...twice for Antelope and once for Mule Deer. I really like the way it is managed for quality animals. I hope you find the one you're after.

Good luck and keep us posted! Pat

 

[CoCaDoRi]

Re: Elk Hunting Newbie - book recommendations?

Your '06 probably has a 12 twist. With a 180 your on the edge. There's nothing wrong with the 150-175 class of .30 cal bullets

Give the tipped 150 or 168 TSX a whirl.

I've used the AB's a lot. The 150 gr might work better in your case.

I tried something the past few years as far as a spotter and it worked well.

I bought the doublers for the SLC's I had. I noticed that 20X ( in my case ) was plenty for Elk hunting. In your case 17X should be plenty as well. They are light and easily put on and removed. It take less time than unpacking and repacking the spotter.

Have you learned to bugle yet? Sounds silly but. You can chase a nice bull far far away from you if you don't learn to bugle correctly.
For new guys the Primos system is by far the easiest and is what I used more often than not. Especially in rifle season.

 

[ToddM]

Re: Elk Hunting Newbie - book recommendations?

Weda:

Also a good tip, I've looked at the doublers for the swarvoski's before but never tried one out. I should get one anyway, I'm sure I have the binocular tripod mount or my EL's as well around here somewhere. I know a couple places here carry them so I'll have to check them out.

I picked up a couple cow calls and a couple tapes/cd's of sounds. Most of the reading/research I've done so far seemed to indicate that bugling after the rut tends to spook animals more than not. So I had planned not to mess with bugling and just work on my cow calling. Maybe that's a mistake and I should work on the bugling as well?

 

[CoCaDoRi]

Re: Elk Hunting Newbie - book recommendations?

Learn to Bugle.

I've heard bulls wailing away long after the rut.

Where will the rut be in relation to your hunting time?

In my experience I seldom heart the perfect bugle the 2,3,4 tier bugles with the perfect chuckle to end it...

more often than not... it was a 1- 2 tier bugle or scream and sometimes a chuckle...

listening to real cinematographers footage of Elk in the wild will help.

Also the DVD from Brothers of the Bow "Primal Dreams" is an excellent one to listen for real Elk sounds.

 

[ToddM]

Re: Elk Hunting Newbie - book recommendations?

I'm guessing it will be well after the rut, but not exactly sure how far after, I suppose that varies a bit year to year. My hunt is late season last 10 days of Nov and first week of Dec.

I'll post that question to the wildlife bio. when I chat with him this week.