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Fieldcraft EMP: Worth worrying about?

zenbiker

zenbiker

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Nov 15, 2009
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The topic of High Altitude Electromagnetic Pulse (HEMP) effects on electronics equipment came to my attention today. To make a long story short and not come off like a tin hatter, a high altitude nuclear burst would essentially fry anything electronic, from calculators to the GPS system to the electrical grid to your car. Think for a second: your GPS is useless; your calculator is UT. No radio/commo at all. Practically everything electronic we rely for everyday life, not to mention fieldcraft, is toast. Just a thought to ponder over a pint.
 
Re: EMP: Worth worrying about?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1ZNUF</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The topic of High Altitude Electromagnetic Pulse (HEMP) effects on electronics equipment came to my attention today. To make a long story short and not come off like a tin hatter, a high altitude nuclear burst would essentially fry anything electronic, from calculators to the GPS system to the electrical grid to your car. Think for a second: your GPS is useless; your calculator is UT. No radio/commo at all. Practically everything electronic we rely for everyday life, not to mention fieldcraft, is toast. Just a thought to ponder over a pint. </div></div>

An atmospheric discharge of HEMP would wreck the lives of most people. Thankfully I learned how to use a compass, read a map and can do range math without the use of a calculator.

If you are so reliant on technology to do your job, when your job takes you to the 6th century to fight, and your tech fails...well then the dude's who are training with 6th century tech and mindset will fuck you up.

Just sayin'
 
Re: EMP: Worth worrying about?

While the nuclear club ain't huge, I figure if anyone decides to light up the night sky with an EMP then I've got bigger fish to fry.
 
Re: EMP: Worth worrying about?

Your late to the party, lots of us that don't wear tin hats, have everything required to operate, inside of ungrounded, fully enclosed an over lapping steel boxs. Uncle is not the only one that will be up an running shortly thereafter.

Other things to remember, a compass and map, certain compression ignition engines, with manual transmissions, and the ability to do for yourself will trump all of the last 40 years of unlearning whats real vs dependent fluff.
 
Re: EMP: Worth worrying about?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: El Shavewa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">While the nuclear club ain't huge, I figure if anyone decides to light up the night sky with an EMP then I've got bigger fish to fry. </div></div>

After working for a government contractor almost 30 years, I stopped worrying about things I can't change. I just try to prepare the best I can and go on. If you read everything printed and take even half of it to heart, you'll loose your mind. As close as I am to big facilities I probably won't suffer long if it happens.
 
Re: EMP: Worth worrying about?

damn i thought i had found a forum where this stuff wasnt discussed.
 
Re: EMP: Worth worrying about?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Think for a second: your GPS is useless; your calculator is UT. No radio/commo at all. Practically everything electronic we rely for everyday life, not to mention fieldcraft, is toast.</div></div>

I disagree. First off I think people rely to heavily on modern technology. Our forefathers fought wars with out all the latest toys and they still kicked ass. If one had real "Field craft Skills" IMHO one would be able to navigate using a map, (in olden days this was called orienteering). Also EMP's will screw with the bad guys non shielded equipment as well. Meaning no IR/Night vision stuff to spot you with, no communication, no fun modern toys. This post made me think of a few weeks ago we were bitchin' in class (electrical Engineering) about some math equations. Our teacher went and pulled out a slide rule calculator and stated we were lucky to have modern scientific calculators. When he was in school they had to use those slide rules to figure out equations. These would be awesome for long range shooting with out the modern niceties of an artificial brain.

http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/tools/be12/
 
Re: EMP: Worth worrying about?

emp not worth worrying about. if i were more electronically savy i would link "a country boy can survive" hank jr. right here..............<span style="font-size: 20pt">X</span>
 
Re: EMP: Worth worrying about?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1ZNUF</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> not to mention fieldcraft, is toast.</div></div>

Please clue me, as to how my fieldcraft will suffer from a EMP?
 
Re: EMP: Worth worrying about?

Not to rain on anyones parade; but EMP can be generated by non-nuclear devices of fairly moderate cost and complexity as well. Not sure of the issue, but it was detailed in an edition of I believe 'Popular Science' roughly a year ago or so. The impact, not on a few individuals that may be somewhat prepared; but on our society which clearly is not prepared for such an event, would be huge. Having said that, I am one of the ancient ones described above that did use a slide rule throughout my undergraduate university calculus, physics, chemistry, optics and stellar structure courses and still have it just in case.
 
Re: EMP: Worth worrying about?

I would only worry about a EMP if I had an electronic lock on my gun safe!
 
Re: EMP: Worth worrying about?

Who cares Eotechs, Aimpoints, Etc.... Thats what backup iron sights are for
smile.gif
 
Re: EMP: Worth worrying about?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bushmaster7</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not to rain on anyones parade; but EMP can be generated by non-nuclear devices of fairly moderate cost and complexity as well. Not sure of the issue, but it was detailed in an edition of I believe 'Popular Science' <span style="text-decoration: line-through">roughly a year ago or so. The impact, not on a few individuals that may be somewhat prepared; but on our society which clearly is not prepared for such an event, would be huge. Having said that, I am one of the ancient ones described above that did use a slide rule throughout my undergraduate university calculus, physics, chemistry, optics and stellar structure courses and still have it just in case. </span> </div></div>

I quit at Pop Sci unless you add details on pie-baking robots and vacations on other planets.




Robots and pie don't mix much like Pop Sci and science.
 
Re: EMP: Worth worrying about?

eotech, aimpoint, flashlight etc. would still work, it ruins circuit boards not batteries. And it is a very real threat this is why NATO stopped the law of the sea. now America owns half and so on. The US has been planning a defense plan for this for years. they were certain that Iran sent one on a satellite.Why do you think they got so mad when they sent one. We are not prepared for that. I pray that it doesn't happen it will be the end of America and yes I might could live but i couldn't keep me and my family alive to the finish. remember America isnt in the Bible
 
Re: EMP: Worth worrying about?

Holy flash-bang batman.. you mean the new 50" Plasma TV will stop working and we'll have to farm potatoes?

Come-on.. if you're on this forum or have been a boy-scout you'll probably be ok...

or?????
 
Re: EMP: Worth worrying about?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LS6TT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">damn i thought i had found a forum where this stuff wasnt discussed. </div></div>

just sayin
 
Re: EMP: Worth worrying about?

Be careful with the use of the word HEMP around here. Before you know it, Shankster will come running.
grin.gif
 
Re: EMP: Worth worrying about?

The worst part is I wont be able to get on the hide and laugh at all the funny shit you guess think up and worry about.
 
Re: EMP: Worth worrying about?

crazy.gif


Wow, what a blast - no pun intended. Got to gather my thoughts and post them when I have time - unless, of course, there is a nuclear airburst between now and then, in which case I hope everyone here knows Morse...
whistle.gif
 
Re: EMP: Worth worrying about?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XxBoomerxX</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Think for a second: your GPS is useless; your calculator is UT. No radio/commo at all. Practically everything electronic we rely for everyday life, not to mention fieldcraft, is toast.</div></div>

I disagree. First off I think people rely to heavily on modern technology. Our forefathers fought wars with out all the latest toys and they still kicked ass. If one had real "Field craft Skills" IMHO one would be able to navigate using a map, (in olden days this was called orienteering). Also EMP's will screw with the bad guys non shielded equipment as well. Meaning no IR/Night vision stuff to spot you with, no communication, no fun modern toys. This post made me think of a few weeks ago we were bitchin' in class (electrical Engineering) about some math equations. Our teacher went and pulled out a slide rule calculator and stated we were lucky to have modern scientific calculators. When he was in school they had to use those slide rules to figure out equations. These would be awesome for long range shooting with out the modern niceties of an artificial brain.

http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/tools/be12/ </div></div>


Neat link.
 
Re: EMP: Worth worrying about?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fighthard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
An atmospheric discharge of HEMP would wreck the lives of most people. </div></div>

I thought most people found atmospheric discharging of hemp to be pleasant?

In all seriousness, you don't need the nukes for an EMP, or even anything as exotic as an EMP to destroy electronics or make electricity supply centers crash and melt. Tesla already showed how to jack sh!t up long ago on a homemade budget throwing lighning out the other side of the earth. Imagine what a big energy supply with three big Tesla coils can do. It's already been researched on the basis that you can triangulate and fry anything opposite you as fast as you could make their phone ring. Was it practical? Dunno. I'd love to see video of one tested seing as I wasn't there when Nicola was powering lightbulbs in his lawn and throwing off 130ft bolts of lightning. He was one of mankind's truly big brains.
 
Re: EMP: Worth worrying about?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BugSniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tesla already showed how to jack sh!t up long ago on a homemade budget throwing lighning out the other side of the earth.</div></div>

Yeah, would have been interesting to ask the folks in Tunguska what they thought of Tesla.
 
Re: EMP: Worth worrying about?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Boomholzer</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bushmaster7</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not to rain on anyones parade; but EMP can be generated by non-nuclear devices of fairly moderate cost and complexity as well. Not sure of the issue, but it was detailed in an edition of I believe 'Popular Science' <span style="text-decoration: line-through">roughly a year ago or so. The impact, not on a few individuals that may be somewhat prepared; but on our society which clearly is not prepared for such an event, would be huge. Having said that, I am one of the ancient ones described above that did use a slide rule throughout my undergraduate university calculus, physics, chemistry, optics and stellar structure courses and still have it just in case. </span> </div></div>

I quit at Pop Sci unless you add details on pie-baking robots and vacations on other planets.

Robots and pie don't mix much like Pop Sci and science. </div></div>

Boomholzer, you have a right to any damn opinion whatsoever on Popular Science or any other news rag out there; but don't disrespect my otherwise meager accomplishments by crossing them out along with the rest of my reply. I worked hard to get through college with the kind of courses I listed, and you cross them off like so much shit. I would not do the same to you or anyone else on this site.
 
Re: EMP: Worth worrying about?

I did'nt pay much attention after Pop Sci. My apologies for the offense.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Boomholzer</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bushmaster7</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not to rain on anyones parade; but EMP can be generated by non-nuclear devices of fairly moderate cost and complexity as well. Not sure of the issue, but it was detailed in an edition of I believe 'Popular Science' <span style="text-decoration: line-through">roughly a year ago or so. The impact, not on a few individuals that may be somewhat prepared; but on our society which clearly is not prepared for such an event, would be huge. </span>Having said that, I am one of the ancient ones described above that did use a slide rule throughout my undergraduate university calculus, physics, chemistry, optics and stellar structure courses and still have it just in case. </div></div>

I quit at Pop Sci unless you add details on pie-baking robots and vacations on other planets.




Robots and pie don't mix much like Pop Sci and science. </div></div>
 
Re: EMP: Worth worrying about?

EMP is scary, but what keeps me awake at night is the zombie threat. We need to be ready fellas.
 
Re: EMP: Worth worrying about?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">is a mil dot master a modern nicety?</div></div>

No that is a modern miracle.
 
Re: EMP: Worth worrying about?

CSI is right on...the AF guys were laughing about the Russians years ago using vacuum tubes in their Migs...they were serious about the effects of EMP on their airplanes. Our modern fighters won't fly without computers to constantly tailor their airfoils.
 
Re: EMP: Worth worrying about?

A Faraday Cage i.e. an ammo can, can be used to isolate electronics. You just have to make sure the device is isolated from the can. So take your Ipod loaded with Bulletflight and your gps, put a rubber case around them and drop em in an ammo can and wait.To bad you couldn't recharge the Ipod and it doesn't take AA batteries. I agree go analog, ain't no circuit boards on a Mildot Master or a compass.
 
Re: EMP: Worth worrying about?

"eotech, aimpoint, flashlight etc. would still work, it ruins circuit boards not batteries..."
By my understanding, (I'm a cop, not an electrical engineer) an EMP actually fries semiconductor electronics. If it uses lasers, LED lights, integrated circuits or modern electronics in any way (like my LED Stinger flashlight) it will fry. My old ACOG Tritium illuminated scope will work great, though! Hey, if it fried my radio, I wouldn't hear dispatch hollering all the time! Always a silver lining ;-)
 
Re: EMP: Worth worrying about?

Read Bill Forstchen's One Second After it will give a little more insight to the everyday things you might not think about. (Newt Gingrich wrote the forward to it) It's a post-apocalyptic (post EMP) book but not far-fetched at all like most books along that theme. If for nothing else it is a good read. We just had some lectures and papers presented on this very topic, and will just say it is worth looking into if you are interested because there are a lot of industries very concerned.
 
Re: EMP: Worth worrying about?

EMP or other catastrophic event, something happens every day. the wife and i put two kits together one for the house and one for the car. the american red cross has a pretty good list although i modified it based on zombie attacks and russian invasions more hopeful than anything. anyways everyone should be prepared so they dont end up in the superdome right?

Water—one gallon per person, per day (3 day supply for evacuation, 2 week supply for home)
Food—non perishable, easy to prepare items (3 day supply for evacuation, 2 week supply for home)
Flashlight
Battery powered or hand crank radio (NOAA Weather Radio, if possible)
Extra batteries
First aid kit
Medications (7 day supply) and medical items
Multi purpose tool
Sanitation and personal hygiene items
Copies of personal documents (medication list and pertinent medical information, proof of address, deed/lease to home, passports, birth certificates, insurance policies)
Cell phone with chargers
Family and emergency contact information
Extra cash
Emergency blanket
Map(s) of the area
Consider the needs of all family members and add supplies to your kit. Suggested items to help meet additional needs are:

Medical supplies (hearing aids with extra batteries, glasses, contact lenses, syringes, cane)
Baby supplies (bottles, formula, baby food, diapers)
Games and activities for children
Pet supplies (collar, leash, ID, food, carrier, bowl)
Two way radios
Extra set of car keys and house keys
Manual can opener
Additional supplies to keep at home or in your kit based on the types of disasters common to your area:

Whistle
N95 or surgical masks
Matches
Rain gear
Towels
Work gloves
Tools/supplies for securing your home
Extra clothing, hat and sturdy shoes
Plastic sheeting
Duct tape
Scissors
Household liquid bleach
Entertainment items
Blankets or sleeping bags
 
Re: EMP: Worth worrying about?

While it doesn't hurt being prepared, the event of an EMP destroying EVERYTHING electrical is highly unlikely. It will knock out power grids but most small electronics in your house have enough RF shielding (either in the device itself, or by the maze of wiring in our homes) or do not have the ability to recieve enough RF energy to make it inoperable. The two biggest factors that will save your electrical stuff is distance and obstacles between you and the EMP.
 
Re: EMP: Worth worrying about?

WTF guys? if someone detonated an emp on america, our gov would nuke te shit out of their land within a matter of hours if not minutes, EMPs are not going to affect our subs that have nuclear missiles and shit. Everyone who believes this shit is retarded, its good to be prepareded for natural disasters and terrorist attacks but this shit is rediculous. This thread is like a "do you believe in 2012" type thread.
 
Re: EMP: Worth worrying about?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Savage110</div><div class="ubbcode-body">WTF guys? if someone detonated an emp on america, our gov would nuke te shit out of their land within a matter of hours if not minutes, EMPs are not going to affect our subs that have nuclear missiles and shit. Everyone who believes this shit is retarded, its good to be prepareded for natural disasters and terrorist attacks but this shit is rediculous. This thread is like a "do you believe in 2012" type thread. </div></div>

LOL HA HA an EMP would be a Terrorist attack!!!!!!
 
Re: EMP: Worth worrying about?

you know what i mean, I meant all SHTF Iraqi terrorist running around with ak's and c4 and shit.
 
Re: EMP: Worth worrying about?

You need to read rmfield's link above. EMP is a very effective force multiplier for any nation who has nuclear air burst capability. I agree that this is "probably" out of the reach of most of the terrorist groups that are assembled today. However, if Pakistan was taken over by dis-quieting types or if some other state player decided, for whatever reason, to use this tactic, it would be very effective. It would be a great way to defeat our technological advantage. To compare this threat with the "2012" lunacy is lunacy. You will be hard pressed to find a Federal 2012 Response Report.
 
Re: EMP: Worth worrying about?

I'd worry more about an EMP generated by the sun than an attack.

If things were to go down like in One Second After, no matter how well prepared you were, everyone would be in a world of hurt. I worry most about other people. You can't stop thousands upon thousands of people that will be on the move looking for food, shelter, etc.
 
Re: EMP: Worth worrying about?

Food for thought.
The grid is the big danger. If you're out in the field it's unlikely even the best equipped sniper team will be paying out a 120 volt extension cable behind them.

Batteries are not effected.

Portable electronics can easily be protected by a Faraday cage.
A GI Ammo can is perfect protection. A bit to heavy and large for practical field use.

Same idea only smaller & lighter will work. Don't forget to "rattle" proof it.

You can even cut a hole in both sides, cover it with screen and get the wind speed from your Kestrel. External antenna for the GPS. Small hole for the laser range finder...(yuk, yuk, yuk)
crazy.gif



John


smile.gif
 
Re: EMP: Worth worrying about?

Shit, where the hell did I put my armadillo helmet? I can't go out to start digging my bunker without it.
 
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