Unless taking barrel on and off, what is the point of a pinned recoil lug?
Gunsmithing Enlighten me on why pin the recoil lug
- Thread starter summitsitter
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Re: Enlighten me on why pin the recoil lug
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: summitsitter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Unless taking barrel on and off, what is the point of a pinned recoil lug? </div></div>
None.
When changing barrels, the lug will remain in the same place and you MAY not have to re-bed the lug area.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: summitsitter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Unless taking barrel on and off, what is the point of a pinned recoil lug? </div></div>
None.
When changing barrels, the lug will remain in the same place and you MAY not have to re-bed the lug area.
Re: Enlighten me on why pin the recoil lug
also, having a pinned lug eliminates the need for a jig or 'eye-balling' it when installing a barrel to make sure the lug is timed properly.
also, having a pinned lug eliminates the need for a jig or 'eye-balling' it when installing a barrel to make sure the lug is timed properly.
Re: Enlighten me on why pin the recoil lug
Uhhh, little more to it than that.
Unless your a supah badd azz gunsmith who never makes a mess or puts a nick in a receiver/barrel when bedding to a stock your likely to have the pull the thing apart to clean stuff up. least I do anyways and I like to think my bedding jobs come out pretty dern nice.
A pinned lug ensures the clock position repeats perfectly. This is important as how it all fits in the stock after the work is done contributes to how well it'll shoot.
Just something else to consider. FWIW every Remmy I tune up here in the shop gets a pinned lug. I loath the "tool" that keys off the lower guard screw. Who says the screw is square to the raceway? As my blueprinting often shows THEY AREN'T. I use the front guard screw hole to "rough in" the raceway prior to actually indicating it. Typically they are off by anywhere from zero to .015" in terms of squareness to the lower receiver raceway.
Have a great weekend.
C.
Uhhh, little more to it than that.
Unless your a supah badd azz gunsmith who never makes a mess or puts a nick in a receiver/barrel when bedding to a stock your likely to have the pull the thing apart to clean stuff up. least I do anyways and I like to think my bedding jobs come out pretty dern nice.
A pinned lug ensures the clock position repeats perfectly. This is important as how it all fits in the stock after the work is done contributes to how well it'll shoot.
Just something else to consider. FWIW every Remmy I tune up here in the shop gets a pinned lug. I loath the "tool" that keys off the lower guard screw. Who says the screw is square to the raceway? As my blueprinting often shows THEY AREN'T. I use the front guard screw hole to "rough in" the raceway prior to actually indicating it. Typically they are off by anywhere from zero to .015" in terms of squareness to the lower receiver raceway.
Have a great weekend.
C.
Re: Enlighten me on why pin the recoil lug
That's why the Surgeon 591 is so badass...
That's why the Surgeon 591 is so badass...
Re: Enlighten me on why pin the recoil lug
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FWIW every Remmy I tune up here in the shop gets a pinned lug.</div></div>
When you pin the lug, do you center the pin? All the pinned lugs I've ever seen were symmetrical, and I always thought it should be put in at 20 degrees or something so that the lug has to be put in facing the right way too. If everything is straight and square it shouldn't matter, but if we're trying to have the lug stay in the exact same spot after changing barrels then why not have it face the same way too.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FWIW every Remmy I tune up here in the shop gets a pinned lug.</div></div>
When you pin the lug, do you center the pin? All the pinned lugs I've ever seen were symmetrical, and I always thought it should be put in at 20 degrees or something so that the lug has to be put in facing the right way too. If everything is straight and square it shouldn't matter, but if we're trying to have the lug stay in the exact same spot after changing barrels then why not have it face the same way too.
Re: Enlighten me on why pin the recoil lug
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: McFred</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If everything is straight and square it shouldn't matter, but if we're trying to have the lug stay in the exact same spot after changing barrels then why not have it face the same way too. </div></div>
Its easy to tell which side is the front and back. For me anyways. I chamfer edges and put a nice radius on the front of my lugs so it sorta rolls into the barrel OD more. Its not much but I can easily tell which side is front and back. Plus some lugs like PTGs have writing on them which I assume people always face forward away from the lug bedding.
So even without the pin hole being offset, its easy to see which side was your front and back. I guess if you dont do any chamfering or anything to your lugs it may be hard to tell. But I think significant chambering should be done to certain edges.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: McFred</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If everything is straight and square it shouldn't matter, but if we're trying to have the lug stay in the exact same spot after changing barrels then why not have it face the same way too. </div></div>
Its easy to tell which side is the front and back. For me anyways. I chamfer edges and put a nice radius on the front of my lugs so it sorta rolls into the barrel OD more. Its not much but I can easily tell which side is front and back. Plus some lugs like PTGs have writing on them which I assume people always face forward away from the lug bedding.
So even without the pin hole being offset, its easy to see which side was your front and back. I guess if you dont do any chamfering or anything to your lugs it may be hard to tell. But I think significant chambering should be done to certain edges.
Re: Enlighten me on why pin the recoil lug
A single pinned lug can still shift and most likely will during a barrel change, albeit minimal.
For me a double pinned lug is where it's at. Done right it won't shift and affect bedding fit if one was set up as a switch barrel.
A single pinned lug can still shift and most likely will during a barrel change, albeit minimal.
For me a double pinned lug is where it's at. Done right it won't shift and affect bedding fit if one was set up as a switch barrel.
Re: Enlighten me on why pin the recoil lug
Why not do like at least some of the custom action makers do and make the lug part of the action.
Why not do like at least some of the custom action makers do and make the lug part of the action.
Re: Enlighten me on why pin the recoil lug
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BBeyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why not do like at least some of the custom action makers do and make the lug part of the action. </div></div>
The answer to that question for me, is its not worth it.
It would either be soldered, or welded Id assume. And both involve heat that I wouldn't want to apply to an action ring.
I dont plan to pin lugs anytime soon. Not saying its not a good idea, just saying I wont be doing it.
When I put barrels on I intend for them to stay on until the rifle sees me again.
If I get a switch-barrel Benchrest customer that wants a rifle built, I sure hope he wants it done on something better than a Remy.
Like a Surgeon with integral lug and rail.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BBeyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why not do like at least some of the custom action makers do and make the lug part of the action. </div></div>
The answer to that question for me, is its not worth it.
It would either be soldered, or welded Id assume. And both involve heat that I wouldn't want to apply to an action ring.
I dont plan to pin lugs anytime soon. Not saying its not a good idea, just saying I wont be doing it.
When I put barrels on I intend for them to stay on until the rifle sees me again.
If I get a switch-barrel Benchrest customer that wants a rifle built, I sure hope he wants it done on something better than a Remy.
Like a Surgeon with integral lug and rail.
Re: Enlighten me on why pin the recoil lug
+1...agreed. i pin all rebarrels with at least 3 pins...
+1...agreed. i pin all rebarrels with at least 3 pins...
Re: Enlighten me on why pin the recoil lug
Quotes:
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">A single pinned lug can still shift and most likely will during a barrel change, albeit minimal.
When you pin the lug, do you center the pin? All the pinned lugs I've ever seen were symmetrical, and I always thought it should be put in at 20 degrees or something so that the lug has to be put in facing the right way too. If everything is straight and square it shouldn't matter, but if we're trying to have the lug stay in the exact same spot after changing barrels then why not have it face the same way too.</span></span>
As the photos illustrate there's two pins on the lug and they will only assemble one way.
I don't care for a single pin personally. Please allow me to preface this by stating that the sole purpose of any accuracy minded gunsmith is to try and improve things, however small/insignificant they may seem to the end user or others.
A recoil lug is deceptively simple. Little more than an odd shaped washer in practical terms. As simple as it is, its also easy to screw up. Every insert carbide lathe tool I've ever used has a corner radius on it. This produces a fillet when turning a cylinder with a flat face on it. The fillet is the radius in the corner where the cylinder and face intersect. By no means is this a bad thing, in fact its beneficial to enlarge it as it strengthens the joint (just look at a racing crankshaft once)
So, step one with a lug should entail machining a chamfer on the side of the lug opposite of the receiver to ensure the flats are making contact with out the lug (which is harder than the barrel) biting into the corner radius and forming a false shoulder that'll goof up the assembly when loading the tennon in the receiver.
Step two is ensuring the lug flats are parallel to one another. Not hard to do as a surface grinder makes pretty quick work of it. HOWEVER just because you have two surfaces parallel it does not mean the hole in the middle is at a perfect right angle to them. If it's off even a few 10ths of a degree it'll make itself known during assembly. An action should have very, very little "squish" as it clams up to a barrel. If it's right it'll go literally from nothing to a firm "snap" as it's snugged up. Because of this the hole should (in my opinion) be enlarged so that the tennon never contacts it. On my lugs the bore is big enough so that only the receiver face and shoulder of the barrel tennon contact the lug. This then presents a challenge as you again have no way of ensuring the clock position of the lug will repeat. -unless you use at least two pins.
Splitting hairs? Perhaps. Isn't that what an accuracy minded gunsmith does though?
Decide for yourself.
Have a great day germs.
C.
Quotes:
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">A single pinned lug can still shift and most likely will during a barrel change, albeit minimal.
When you pin the lug, do you center the pin? All the pinned lugs I've ever seen were symmetrical, and I always thought it should be put in at 20 degrees or something so that the lug has to be put in facing the right way too. If everything is straight and square it shouldn't matter, but if we're trying to have the lug stay in the exact same spot after changing barrels then why not have it face the same way too.</span></span>
As the photos illustrate there's two pins on the lug and they will only assemble one way.
I don't care for a single pin personally. Please allow me to preface this by stating that the sole purpose of any accuracy minded gunsmith is to try and improve things, however small/insignificant they may seem to the end user or others.
A recoil lug is deceptively simple. Little more than an odd shaped washer in practical terms. As simple as it is, its also easy to screw up. Every insert carbide lathe tool I've ever used has a corner radius on it. This produces a fillet when turning a cylinder with a flat face on it. The fillet is the radius in the corner where the cylinder and face intersect. By no means is this a bad thing, in fact its beneficial to enlarge it as it strengthens the joint (just look at a racing crankshaft once)
So, step one with a lug should entail machining a chamfer on the side of the lug opposite of the receiver to ensure the flats are making contact with out the lug (which is harder than the barrel) biting into the corner radius and forming a false shoulder that'll goof up the assembly when loading the tennon in the receiver.
Step two is ensuring the lug flats are parallel to one another. Not hard to do as a surface grinder makes pretty quick work of it. HOWEVER just because you have two surfaces parallel it does not mean the hole in the middle is at a perfect right angle to them. If it's off even a few 10ths of a degree it'll make itself known during assembly. An action should have very, very little "squish" as it clams up to a barrel. If it's right it'll go literally from nothing to a firm "snap" as it's snugged up. Because of this the hole should (in my opinion) be enlarged so that the tennon never contacts it. On my lugs the bore is big enough so that only the receiver face and shoulder of the barrel tennon contact the lug. This then presents a challenge as you again have no way of ensuring the clock position of the lug will repeat. -unless you use at least two pins.
Splitting hairs? Perhaps. Isn't that what an accuracy minded gunsmith does though?
Decide for yourself.
Have a great day germs.
C.
