Night Vision EOTECH CLIP ON THERMALS ( Full details)

Ksracer

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. Where the UTC basically ends at 10-12x the xELR doesn’t lose its gas until 18-20x.

Speaking of image and pixelation, did anybody else zoom in tight and notice the difference between the pixel spacing of the LR and the xELR in the images I posted in the other thread?
Way back in this thread there was conversation about how much of the 1280 screens were being utilized. I don't remember what the consensus was, but I believe my ELR is using 640 because I can see static around the margins. Looking at these two pics, I'm guessing the LR is using the full 1280, in effect giving a smoother image.
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brodband8

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If you go into the dead pixel fixer menu of the ELR, it allows you to choose any one of the 640x480 pixels to excite/fix.

As far as the LR and ELR photo you just posted, have you tried playing with the parallax? LR looks out of focus but I don't own one to know.
 

stefan73

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    For sure this would be better. I have an Atilla that while isn't as bright as the VSLIM will light up a hog at a mile easily.

    As soon as I get my PVS-30 back from Jay I say we should give it a try.
    I'd like to see what one of Jay's hot rodded PVS-30's look like.
     
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    brodband8

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    Does the EXLR really hang with the UTCxii?
    Having both, what I noticed was that the UTCxii can certainly hang with the ELR up until the higher magnification.

    The thing I like more about the ELR (weight/size aside) is that it has much more fine adjustment features with sharpness/contrast as well as quick presets that for me make it a much better unit. Being feature rich can be a detriment if not done right, but the ELR handles it well. Very easy to learn the menu and use it blind after only playing with it for a short period of time. I can obtain a much nicer/contrasty image or I can quickly preset between settings to have the more important areas showing contrast that I need. This is a generation thing as I would not expect it to under perform the UTC given the same basic specs. Also, having used BAE/Trijicon units going to a unit that has internal shutter and a quick press standby feature is a game changer.
     

    Conqueror

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    It’s true their FOV is “close to the same” but when you’re dealing with small numbers, small differences become large. Dropping from 6° to 5.3° FOV is a small absolute change but also a 13% decrease, which is very meaningful for pixel density.
     
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    TheHorta

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    Pluses for xELR:

    1) Readily Available.
    2) Not an entirely unreasonable price.
    3) Legit UTC-Xii performance, or better.
    4) 10-Year Warranty through EOTech
    5) Internal mechanical NUC shutter

    Minuses (compared to UTC):

    1) Overall size.
    2) No TracIR support (no future support possible)
    3) Collimation seems to vary by unit
    4) QD mount feels much cheaper.
    5) Fit/Finish not as good as UTC

    Any others you can think of?
     

    TheHorta

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    I wouldn’t say the fit/finish are an issue on the ELR. The whole thing is supposedly DLC coated and it’s built like a tank. And although the QD feels cheaper I’m glad they didn’t go with LaRue, I’m tired of those tearing up the finish on my shit. Double ADM levers would have been better.
    I think the cheesy plastic focus fins make it feel cheaper. UTC-Xii is definitely more “elegant” — if a thermal optic can be elegant.

    Mount swing arm just feels like it’ll be a problem in the future.

    Neither of these things are deal breakers. The 10-year warranty help quell any fears.
     

    Eliteuas

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    The more I juggle it back and forth; the more I want a ELR. Lol 😂 placed a reservation yesterday on one. Now it’s go time. Will probably run a clipirNVG soon also. Why limit myself to just one?! 😆😩

    The cool thing will be switching between both on the rifle and spotter and being able to use both on both platforms.

    Eotech really knocked it out of the park with these new releases … I’m excited 🤩


    Unless your dying to try TracIR the utcXii lost all its sex appeal. I’ve owned a Trijicon utmx , UTBx (2 of them actually) and a few skeetIrX.. theyre nice don’t get me wrong.. but the premium isn’t justified by TracIR when you can literally buy a steiner IFS scope and run it with the ELR for less then the price of a USED UTCXii . Just my humble opinion
     
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    RickyRodney

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    The more I juggle it back and forth; the more I want a ELR. Lol 😂 placed a reservation yesterday on one. Now it’s go time. Will probably run a clipirNVG soon also. Why limit myself to just one?! 😆😩

    The cool thing will be switching between both on the rifle and spotter and being able to use both on both platforms.

    Eotech really knocked it out of the park with these new releases … I’m excited 🤩


    Unless your dying to try TracIR the utcXii lost all its sex appeal. I’ve owned a Trijicon utmx , UTBx (2 of them actually) and a few skeetIrX.. theyre nice don’t get me wrong.. but the premium isn’t justified by TracIR when you can literally buy a steiner IFS scope and run it with the ELR for less then the price of a USED UTCXii . Just my humble opinion
    Yeah thats true but that still requires a spotter and shooter to gather ranges to know how much to spin the turrets on a Steiner IFS, plus that eats up the margin between the ExLR and UTCxii. 2 shooters both with TracIR can simultaneously work through a group of targets at unknown distances ranging and working. Another benefit you can put a buddy on a gun thats unfamiliar with the range data for the rifle and get right to work.

    I'm really disappointed Eotech didnt provide some provision for ranging. The Raptar pricing is excessive and it's surprising nothing has come about to challenge it.
     

    EWS6

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    The more I juggle it back and forth; the more I want a ELR. Lol 😂 placed a reservation yesterday on one. Now it’s go time. Will probably run a clipirNVG soon also. Why limit myself to just one?! 😆😩

    The cool thing will be switching between both on the rifle and spotter and being able to use both on both platforms.

    Eotech really knocked it out of the park with these new releases … I’m excited 🤩


    Unless your dying to try TracIR the utcXii lost all its sex appeal. I’ve owned a Trijicon utmx , UTBx (2 of them actually) and a few skeetIrX.. theyre nice don’t get me wrong.. but the premium isn’t justified by TracIR when you can literally buy a steiner IFS scope and run it with the ELR for less then the price of a USED UTCXii . Just my humble opinion
    Sounds like you need a hiss and recon v
     
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    TheHorta

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    I know they come with not nice people dressed in nice suites. I prefer not to be put into the position where the struggle involves picking up the powdered soap in the showers :eek: , just saying
    That’s part of the experience. It’s a package. Unobtanium without visits is a fail.
     
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    stefan73

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    I feel bad for the unsuspecting people along with the chain of command in units whose equipment it was stolen from! Everybody gets hammered, people loose their livelihood among other things. It's just a bad deal all around!
     
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    DownRangeThermal

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    Speaking of image and pixelation, did anybody else zoom in tight and notice the difference between the pixel spacing of the LR and the xELR in the images I posted in the other thread?
    Way back in this thread there was conversation about how much of the 1280 screens were being utilized. I don't remember what the consensus was, but I believe my ELR is using 640 because I can see static around the margins. Looking at these two pics, I'm guessing the LR is using the full 1280, in effect giving a smoother image.
    View attachment 7980205View attachment 7980206
    Not sure on the images above....maybe lr pic is out of focus? The LR and the 12 degree "m" have 640 displays. I have confirmed it. The ELR has a 1280 display but only utilizes 640 of the pixels. I was told that this display config allowed an advantage (cost?) in rear optics. If you look in eyepiece with naked eye you can see the full display. Display config/size can allow for some different Mag/demag. Think about the steiner c35 vs s35. Same lens...same fov but one is 1x and one is 2x..... a lot of that is via the display. 800 vs 1024 Pulsar does that on a bunch of models too by tinkering with display size.
     
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    stefan73

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    Not sure on the images above....maybe lr pic is out of focus? The LR and the 12 degree "m" have 640 displays. I have confirmed it. The ELR has a 1280 display but only utilizes 640 of the pixels. I was told that this display config allowed an advantage (cost?) in rear optics.
    That's weird but I'm not an optical engineer.
     

    Conqueror

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    LR and the 12 degree "m" have 640 displays. I have confirmed it. The ELR has a 1280 display but only utilizes 640 of the pixels. I was told that this display config allowed an advantage (cost?) in rear optics.
    This was discussed in previous pages and I suspected it might have to do with the pixel size. I suspect the rear half of the units is basically identical, and the stuff that makes them MR/LR/ELR is all on the front side with the microbolometer and the objective assembly. If they have a 1/2" screen in the back and they bump it from 640 to 1280 pixels, the pixels will be a lot smaller on the 1280 screen, which will allow the unit to take more magnification. So maybe for the UK/CANSOF trials they used the same back half design with the same size screen in back but sourced one with higher resolution so it would have half the pixel size.
     

    TheHorta

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    This was discussed in previous pages and I suspected it might have to do with the pixel size. I suspect the rear half of the units is basically identical, and the stuff that makes them MR/LR/ELR is all on the front side with the microbolometer and the objective assembly. If they have a 1/2" screen in the back and they bump it from 640 to 1280 pixels, the pixels will be a lot smaller on the 1280 screen, which will allow the unit to take more magnification. So maybe for the UK/CANSOF trials they used the same back half design with the same size screen in back but sourced one with higher resolution so it would have half the pixel size.
    The new breed of thermal clipons submitted for MIL evaluation seems to run dual mode — big screen for dedicated scope use, reduced size for clipon. Since there is a reticle on the ELR, I would guess is has an optional dedicated mode that uses the full screen size.

    Just a guess, but that’s the way my FWS-Snipe works.
     

    Conqueror

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    That dates back to the CNVD-LR or earlier, doesn't it? IMO there's too much demag on the ELR to use as a stand-alone even if you used the full 1280 screen but maybe not. I can't imagine why they would disable that feature for civilian sales when they have left everything else enabled, and Dan said they told him there is no stand-alone mode...
     

    TheHorta

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    That dates back to the CNVD-LR or earlier, doesn't it? IMO there's too much demag on the ELR to use as a stand-alone even if you used the full 1280 screen but maybe not. I can't imagine why they would disable that feature for civilian sales when they have left everything else enabled, and Dan said they told him there is no stand-alone mode...
    Dan would know. I was able to visit Theon Sensors in Greece while there back in October 2021. They had the xELR there to play with, but it didn’t have the plastic focus fins, and I swear the eyepiece was bigger/different.

    They had zero idea what TracIR was back then.
     

    brodband8

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    Not sure on the images above....maybe lr pic is out of focus? The LR and the 12 degree "m" have 640 displays. I have confirmed it. The ELR has a 1280 display but only utilizes 640 of the pixels. I was told that this display config allowed an advantage (cost?) in rear optics. If you look in eyepiece with naked eye you can see the full display. Display config/size can allow for some different Mag/demag. Think about the steiner c35 vs s35. Same lens...same fov but one is 1x and one is 2x..... a lot of that is via the display. 800 vs 1024 Pulsar does that on a bunch of models too by tinkering with display size.
    This is true. Also, sometimes on boot or after a long NUC you can see the extra part of the screen at the bottom that does not get used. Shows up for a few seconds until it fades away.
     
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    Ksracer

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    Not sure on the images above....maybe lr pic is out of focus? The LR and the 12 degree "m" have 640 displays. I have confirmed it. The ELR has a 1280 display but only utilizes 640 of the pixels. I was told that this display config allowed an advantage (cost?) in rear optics. If you look in eyepiece with naked eye you can see the full display. Display config/size can allow for some different Mag/demag. Think about the steiner c35 vs s35. Same lens...same fov but one is 1x and one is 2x..... a lot of that is via the display. 800 vs 1024 Pulsar does that on a bunch of models too by tinkering with display size.
    Ya, that LR pic was a bad example. Try these two. Why does there appear to be as many pixels per Mil on the reticle with the MR as there are on the ELR? With a wider FOV spread out on the same pixel count, there should be fewer per MIL for the MR.

    The more I look at it, maybe those vertical lines aren't the pixel borders. There appear to be 3 vertical spacings all lit up together to make 1 larger square. Hell if I know. I just thought it was interesting.

    I'm not sure why the LR pics appear out of focus. I have the best parallax setting for my ELR marked on my scope. That night I put the MR on, confirmed that it liked the same setting, and then snapped all 3 series of pics without adjusting it for the Theon units.
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    cantankerous

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    Yeah thats true but that still requires a spotter and shooter to gather ranges to know how much to spin the turrets on a Steiner IFS, plus that eats up the margin between the ExLR and UTCxii. 2 shooters both with TracIR can simultaneously work through a group of targets at unknown distances ranging and working. Another benefit you can put a buddy on a gun thats unfamiliar with the range data for the rifle and get right to work.

    I'm really disappointed Eotech didnt provide some provision for ranging. The Raptar pricing is excessive and it's surprising nothing has come about to challenge it.
    The smart scopes can be used with the ELR quickly without a spotter with some practice.
    I enable the digital crosshairs and zero them to my day reticle (Revic smart scope). When I dial for my target my digital crosshairs are still zeroed at 100 with the Radius.

    it's not as smooth as the TracIR but it didn't cost >$30k to get into either.
     

    4O6shootist

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    I'm starting to deeply regret not waiting for thr elr, impulse bought the lr. I'm still happy with its performance.
     
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    TheHorta

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    Of course, the “formerly known as xELR” ELR has a much tighter FoV, and should be able to punch past the Voodoo-M on optics alone, thanks to that gargantuan planetoid of Germanium we call an “objective.” When I look at the ELR, all the Trekkie inside me sees is the planet-killer from the original series episode “Doomsday Machine”.

    1667685189596.jpeg


    But… and this is still very preliminary… the Voodoo seems to hang very well with the ELR and both are easily usable to 20x optical magnification. In front of a S&B 3-27, I find the entire zoom range to be usable. Sure, 27x doesn’t get you much, if anything, over 20x but I’m pleasantly surprised at how well they both hold-up at extreme optical magnifications.

    Between the two, the Voodoo is the better unit *overall*, but in terms of pure reach the ELR has the edge. The rest of the package pushes the Voodoo ahead of the EOTech/Theon. The most obvious are the size and weight advantages of the Voodoo, which are non-trivial to say the least. I have the TracIR cable for the Voodoo as well, and my preliminary tinkering shows it to work just like it does on the Trij/BAE units, provided you have a Wilcox AB Raptar. I know many don’t care about TracIR, but I’m a big fan because I don’t do this for a living and I’m always swapping guns and optics and rarely have enough time to learn my dope on anything, so TracIR makes a handicapped retard like me look like Carlos Hathcock.

    I’ve seen many others mention this, but the ELR has *serious* parasitic drain issues and some weird battery thing that it’ll drain one battery completely and won’t turn on, even if the other 3 batteries are fresh.

    Internal mechanical shutter on the ELR rocks. It should be a standard feature on every thermal since 2010.

    Whaddup with dat, PoT?!

    Gonna run a Red-I on both and see how it looks.
     

    Eliteuas

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    Of course, the “formerly known as xELR” ELR has a much tighter FoV, and should be able to punch past the Voodoo-M on optics alone, thanks to that gargantuan planetoid of Germanium we call an “objective.” When I look at the ELR, all the Trekkie inside me sees is the planet-killer from the original series episode “Doomsday Machine”.

    View attachment 7992177

    But… and this is still very preliminary… the Voodoo seems to hang very well with the ELR and both are easily usable to 20x optical magnification. In front of a S&B 3-27, I find the entire zoom range to be usable. Sure, 27x doesn’t get you much, if anything, over 20x but I’m pleasantly surprised at how well they both hold-up at extreme optical magnifications.

    Between the two, the Voodoo is the better unit *overall*, but in terms of pure reach the ELR has the edge. The rest of the package pushes the Voodoo ahead of the EOTech/Theon. The most obvious are the size and weight advantages of the Voodoo, which are non-trivial to say the least. I have the TracIR cable for the Voodoo as well, and my preliminary tinkering shows it to work just like it does on the Trij/BAE units, provided you have a Wilcox AB Raptar. I know many don’t care about TracIR, but I’m a big fan because I don’t do this for a living and I’m always swapping guns and optics and rarely have enough time to learn my dope on anything, so TracIR makes a handicapped retard like me look like Carlos Hathcock.

    I’ve seen many others mention this, but the ELR has *serious* parasitic drain issues and some weird battery thing that it’ll drain one battery completely and won’t turn on, even if the other 3 batteries are fresh.

    Internal mechanical shutter on the ELR rocks. It should be a standard feature on every thermal since 2010.

    Whaddup with dat, PoT?!

    Gonna run a Red-I on both and see how it looks.
    Horta, where does one acquire the POT TracIR cable sensei?
     

    Conqueror

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    Where are “many others” discussing parasitic drain on the ELRs? This is the first mention of it I’ve seen anywhere on the series of tubes. I haven’t yet marked it as a big issue with mine but I haven’t used it in a few weeks, maybe I’ll go check the battery.
     

    TheHorta

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    Where are “many others” discussing parasitic drain on the ELRs? This is the first mention of it I’ve seen anywhere on the series of tubes. I haven’t yet marked it as a big issue with mine but I haven’t used it in a few weeks, maybe I’ll go check the battery.
    It’s been a topic of discussion in some other groups I’m in. Most don’t leave batteries in their devices, and I usually don’t either, but I left mine in overnight and the ELR was dead the next day.

    SOK can elaborate. It’s weird. Seems to only affect one battery, but unit won’t run even if other 3 are full.
     

    Conqueror

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    Part of me wonders slightly if anyone is leaving it in standby by accident. I left mine in standby for like 3 hours the day I got it because I didn’t hold the power-off button quite long enough, and unless you look through it at the right time you could miss the standby indication on the screen since it only flashes intermittently.
     
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