I thought that might be it (and I did leave it in standby overnight the first night). Seems to drain when confirmed off. Even if you insert batteries with the unit turned off.
Night Vision EOTECH CLIP ON THERMALS ( Full details)
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The demo ELR I’ve had my hands on for the last week or so is still on the first set of 4x CR123s and is at like 2/3 power after 3 different hunting outings. I scan with a handheld and leave the ELR off unless I need a closer look or to take a shot. It boots up so fast it’s not a pain shutting it off in between. But definitely no parasitic drain on this one.
Ditto.
I bet mine ran 6+ hours with 30 startups over the course of a few weeks on the set that came with it. I never took them out during that period. I forgot I had shut it off for the night when the red "low batt" warning came on and the next time out it ran another half hour before the warning came up again.
Definitely no battery issues here.
I keep lithium batteries in my LR 24/7 and zero drain issues since I bought it right when they came out.
It is possible I accidentally left it on again, I don’t have a crystal clear memory of shutting it down after I took those neighbor pics I posted above. 
I could be in the same boat. I turn 55 next month, so I plead senility.It is possible I accidentally left it on again, I don’t have a crystal clear memory of shutting it down after I took those neighbor pics I posted above.
You probably didn't. Two of my buddies both have drain and only one battery out of the 4 dies. No they are not in standby.It is possible I accidentally left it on again, I don’t have a crystal clear memory of shutting it down after I took those neighbor pics I posted above.
My question is who thought it would be a good idea to leave batteries in their device during storage? Lol 
I mean in SHTF pop the battery pack back in… it’s not rocket science, and this isn’t a self defense close range thermal for your AR lol
I mean in SHTF pop the battery pack back in… it’s not rocket science, and this isn’t a self defense close range thermal for your AR lol With that said ; it shouldn’t be draining batteries. That’s a no-no
The first night I got mine the included batteries were dead the next morning. I thought perhaps I left it in standby. The next set was alkaline batteries again and they lasted almost a week with dozens of startups and probably about 4 hours of total run time. Those batteries never really ran out as I changed them to Lithium when the indicator turned red. The Li have been in since and I have maybe 1/2 hour on it, batteries are left in it and I just checked to see I have a full bar on the indicator. Seems good to me.
My question is who thought it would be a good idea to leave batteries in their device during storage? Lol
Some of us use them constantly or frequently at unexpected intervals. Mine rides in the truck within reach of the driver, batteries in 24/7. My days aren’t predictable enough to know which ones and what time I’ll be somewhere worth scanning a field. NOX35 is the same so I just fire it up to scan. If I see something in the NOX, I don’t need the extra delay of adding batteries to the LR.
NOX gets turned on a few times a day. Battery out would be a poor idea. LR not as much, but when I need it I need it now.
No drain from either for me.
Do you have these yet? Would be much appreciated if you did!
They are posted over on Wig's Night Ops thread. It wasn't a very good night for thermals and I'm a shitty photographer so they aren't "breathtaking".
They are back to back to back in a short period of time so they are a fair comparison though.
ELR arrives tomorrow . Stay tuned for some pics!
DownRangeThermal
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I'll preface all of the following by saying I think the voodoo s is a bad ass little device for it's intended purposes.
Wanna pick your brain there Horta...Curious, aside from size what would make it better? Warranty...?, Price...? Recoil Rating...?, (ultra fast) Auto NUC...?, from off to mission ready in under 2 seconds...? Eye piece....??. Image quality....could be but that is very subjective so I'll never argue that.
Actually in my opinion the biggest question I have with the POT is the adjustable diopter. I have wondered why an engineer would incorporate that into a LR optic with a tiny display (im sure they have their reasons) . Can potentially introduce non unity conditions from end user and induce POI shift. Ok, if you always make sure to go back to the tick mark on the eyepiece ( in your pic its off btw) then theoretically you should be at factory unity setting but what happens if you forget...or it gets rotated in your bag....or its night time and you don't see that its off......... or the friction of eye-piece rotation loosens over time?
Here is a list of mil clip-on units that have won nato contracts or at least gone after that business. Which list has long range optics on it? I know the skeet and utmx were always thought of as a hand-held first ( IED detection) and short range clip-on second. If you have an optic that was designed primarily as a handheld optic then an adjustable eye-piece would be an important attribute. Generally you only see adjustable diopter on short range multi-use optics.
FIXED DIOPTER
INOD
HISS XLR
UTC X XII
IWS-LR
IWS-I/FWS-i
theon xelr/EOTECH ELR
CRATOS
BAE FWS-S ( did not win contract)
All products awarded MAS-N ( several Manf) for SOCOM
PVS 22
PVS 24
PVS 30
PVS 27
Excelitas DRAGON line
TIG-IR
LWTS
LWTS-LR
CNVD-T all series
FLIR ADUNS
ADJUSTABLE DIOPTER
Voodoo s/m
UTMx
Skeetir
Now on IBEAM LRF linking ( " tracir " is actually a BAE integration of IBEAM protocol ) I'll state the following. It is nice to have DATA right there on the thermal display. I would always rather have my solution there than not have it. I can however glance up at the led display on the back of my RAPTAR and get the exact same info in real time.....I say real time because in actual use with my now gone UTC/skeetir , tracir would often lag behind my RAPTAR by several seconds/solutions. For example if I would range 4 targets in rapid succession the display would show the second target for several seconds before giving data on the 3rd 4th and so on. The correct data would be displayed on RAPTAR but the lag was with the thermal displaying the up to date solutions. It was so bad I ditched the cable. This was more than likely an issue with the processor in the UTC and maybe the VOODOO has a much newer and usable version that makes TRACIR shine. The second bigger issue Ive had with TRACIR is that it always displays a disturbed reticle which you don't generally want on a clip-on. It is very inaccurate because of induced rail flex. Even rock solid chassis like AI will flex when you load them on a bipod or tripod. Challenge....go out and align tracir to your reticle then range at 600 yds. lets say it displays 3 mils elevation correction. Ok that should equate to roughly 3 mils on your primary reticle too. Now lean into your rifle and you'll see that entire image including the disturbed reticle shifts up as your rail flexes over the length of your rifle ( just like an IR laser on a M4). Now that disturbed reticle is at 2.5 mils on your primary reticle...so which do you use? The answer is on a unity optic you'd still be good using your primary reticle (3mils). Disturbed reticles are great in stand alone optics because you're using the thermal optic as an aiming device rather than a "looking" device. UTC were often used on machine guns with external displays as stand alone optics and that is when the TRACIR disturbed reticle would be accurate and useful. DRS uses their own version of IBEAM on the IWS-LR and when you go to clip on mode the disturbed reticle is turned off for the above reasons...in stand alone mode the disturbed reticle is reactivated. In clip on mode it only gives you data. HISS has a very unobtrusive flashing icon and then data on screen. INOD data only.
My point on all of the above is that in CLIP-ON use, the only reliably accurate TRACIR data is the solution not the disturbed reticle. That same data is available with a simple glance to an LED on your LRF....all without lag or cables. Now as you mentioned if your eyes are bad maybe the on screen display is preferred.
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DownRangeThermal
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On the topic of rail flex, If you zero your rifle prone then go to clipped into a tripod I have noticed that I get a POI shift. I leave the reticle turned on and "zeroed" to the same position as my day optic. This way when clipped into a tripod I can see if i am inducing any rail flex. Are you saying that rail flex is irrelevant and the POI should be the same from prone with the bipod on the fore end and clipped into a tripod just in front of the magwell?
If you have rail flex in the day without the clip on installed due to that scenario you described.. and it affects your POI; expect the same with the thermal clip on installed.
Riley do you get the same zero shift without the thermal when shooting prone/bipod vs tripod only?
No POI shift when prone vs tripod in the day scope. Just when thermal is clipped on.
I would get a different / more sturdy bridge or rail set depending on what type of rig it is. The thermal’s weight could be causing flex in that situation
ATX and manners CS2 with LRI bridge...
So flex in your rail is causing this when bipod loading. With clip on attached. I'm sure your day scope is on receiver rail, no flex there. Perhaps load your tripod less? Use a mlok arca rail on your hand guard that adds more rigidity to the rail to remove flex? Idk just trying to throw some ideas for a quick fix.
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I'm not sure if i'm following exactly. In a true unity clip-on then the thermal moving up and down with rail flex will not shift poi. Some long range clip on thermals like INOD have a mechanical elevator/erector built into the mount that you can activate for elr shooting. ( increses cant down of thermal by 20moa for example. That would not change your poi..... only allow for more screen to be usable/visable for your day optic erector when dialing. When a properly collimated unit is truly unity throughout the width of the eye-piece (that's key) you can literally hand hold it in front of your primary optic.
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Please tell me where I can get UTC XXii, need to upgrade from my crappy Xii.
On a side note, I believe you can at least move the TracIR reticle way off to the side so it's easier to ignore.
Has anyone yet received the software to connect via the USB cable?
No @CoryT, I have heard back a couple times from the US head of Theon and their Director of Law Enforcement, they too are having issues getting it working so I have been giving them a little time to get it right. If I can get a working copy from them my plan is to give it to Dan to see if we can get it distributed to owners. The software will come with an exe file and a readme with instructions.
Update @CoryT: I was finally able to get a copy of the batch files that allow retrieval of the stored images. I am awaiting permission from Theon to share the files with other owners, once they say yes I will figure out how to spread the .rar around. Initial impressions:
1) The stored images are 640x480 to match the sensor, and about 180kB each, when captured on the highest file size setting. I was only able to store 12 images before filling the device so its internal storage must be a tiny ~2.1mB.
2) The process of retrieval is janky as fuck lol. You install a couple drivers, then look in your device manager to find out what COM port your USB is on your computer, then run a second .exe that pulls up a DOS prompt for the port number, then it takes about 3-5 minutes to download the 2.1mB of images into a folder it creates. You cannot access the device like it's a USB drive and you will still have to go back into the device and manually delete all the images from its memory after downloading.
3) The images are accurate to what the sensor sees, of course, but you don't have the benefit of an optical zoom day scope behind them. Taking a snapshot and looking at it zoomed in on your computer monitor does NOT give the same image quality as using the device in person and zooming in on the rear screen with a magnifying optic.
Here is a snapshot from 100 yards:
Here is a snapshot out to 1000 yards. If you look at the far tree line you will see a large square sign hanging in a tree about 20 feet off the ground. Directly below that is an unheated IPSC at about 980 yards.
Here is that same range as it actually appeared through my ZCO when I took the snapshot and had a magnified optic behind the ClipIR (iPhone photo through scope). The red arrow is on a 12" swinger circle at the same range and the IPSC is just to the left of that - much easier to see when you're actually using it.
1) The stored images are 640x480 to match the sensor, and about 180kB each, when captured on the highest file size setting. I was only able to store 12 images before filling the device so its internal storage must be a tiny ~2.1mB.
2) The process of retrieval is janky as fuck lol. You install a couple drivers, then look in your device manager to find out what COM port your USB is on your computer, then run a second .exe that pulls up a DOS prompt for the port number, then it takes about 3-5 minutes to download the 2.1mB of images into a folder it creates. You cannot access the device like it's a USB drive and you will still have to go back into the device and manually delete all the images from its memory after downloading.
3) The images are accurate to what the sensor sees, of course, but you don't have the benefit of an optical zoom day scope behind them. Taking a snapshot and looking at it zoomed in on your computer monitor does NOT give the same image quality as using the device in person and zooming in on the rear screen with a magnifying optic.
Here is a snapshot from 100 yards:
Here is a snapshot out to 1000 yards. If you look at the far tree line you will see a large square sign hanging in a tree about 20 feet off the ground. Directly below that is an unheated IPSC at about 980 yards.
Here is that same range as it actually appeared through my ZCO when I took the snapshot and had a magnified optic behind the ClipIR (iPhone photo through scope). The red arrow is on a 12" swinger circle at the same range and the IPSC is just to the left of that - much easier to see when you're actually using it.
Thus far I would say the best way to get general pics through a ClipIR is to A) Take a snapshot, and then B) take a through-the-scope photo of that snapshot at a later convenient time. The raw snapshots are only useful if you need images without a reticle/display info overlaid.
Impressive… is that unheated steel that is hot from the sun still or is the unit able to detect that steel under most conditions at that distance?Update @CoryT: I was finally able to get a copy of the batch files that allow retrieval of the stored images. I am awaiting permission from Theon to share the files with other owners, once they say yes I will figure out how to spread the .rar around. Initial impressions:
1) The stored images are 640x480 to match the sensor, and about 180kB each, when captured on the highest file size setting. I was only able to store 12 images before filling the device so its internal storage must be a tiny ~2.1mB.
2) The process of retrieval is janky as fuck lol. You install a couple drivers, then look in your device manager to find out what COM port your USB is on your computer, then run a second .exe that pulls up a DOS prompt for the port number, then it takes about 3-5 minutes to download the 2.1mB of images into a folder it creates. You cannot access the device like it's a USB drive and you will still have to go back into the device and manually delete all the images from its memory after downloading.
3) The images are accurate to what the sensor sees, of course, but you don't have the benefit of an optical zoom day scope behind them. Taking a snapshot and looking at it zoomed in on your computer monitor does NOT give the same image quality as using the device in person and zooming in on the rear screen with a magnifying optic.
Here is a snapshot from 100 yards:
View attachment 7995568
Here is a snapshot out to 1000 yards. If you look at the far tree line you will see a large square sign hanging in a tree about 20 feet off the ground. Directly below that is an unheated IPSC at about 980 yards.
View attachment 7995569
Here is that same range as it actually appeared through my ZCO when I took the snapshot and had a magnified optic behind the ClipIR (iPhone photo through scope). The red arrow is on a 12" swinger circle at the same range and the IPSC is just to the left of that - much easier to see when you're actually using it.
That was early morning in the daylight; I don’t have access to Altus at midnight (I can dream though). Hard for me to give firsthand report at that distance in pitch black or cold conditions. With its different enhancement modes I suspect one could get a similar view on a cool night on the Dynamic or Wide Range settings which really improve contrast when the whole scene is the same temperature.
DownRangeThermal
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We have a couple of ELR units available. These are the last ones for the foreseeable future ...was expecting these to be all accounted for but had 1 dealer back off their number.
You don't expect to see a repeat run of ELR units specifically?
Or are you expecting a dropped production of all the units across the board?
Last time I was at the range it had been overcast with intermittent misting rain and a steady temp of 50* for the previous 24hrs. I was barely able to make out a few pcs of steel @400yds.
That’s about as bad as conditions get for thermal.
Bad news fellas… Theon has expressly told me I am not allowed to share the snapshot retrieval software. I told them it’s a waste of everyone’s time for each owner to have to contact customer service individually to request it, but that appears to be what they want for now. I have strongly encouraged them to get it on a website somewhere for owners to download. My best advice at this time is to reach out to EoTech CS and request it.
Bad news fellas… Theon has expressly told me I am not allowed to share the snapshot retrieval software. I told them it’s a waste of everyone’s time for each owner to have to contact customer service individually to request it, but that appears to be what they want for now. I have strongly encouraged them to get it on a website somewhere for owners to download. My best advice at this time is to reach out to EoTech CS and request it.
Not allowed? They’ll what, take away your birthday, bend your dog tags, stamp your meal card ‘no dessert’? Got a contact number/person? 3 or 4 calls a day from each owner ought to move the needle on that.
It’s their software and they own the copyright on it presumably so they would probably have some legal remedy. I also just don’t want to piss them off when they hold the warranty on a very expensive electronic device I own. I just got my Raptar back from having its main board replaced under warranty so I’m a little sensitive to that. But yes, I told them a ton of people want this and I encourage everyone to start calling them about it. Frankly my impression is that Theon isn’t used to having civilian products they have to support and they want EoTech to just be the ones getting all the calls.
So, these are images through the Voodoo M. Day optic was an NX 2.5-20x50. House 275 yards away. First image is at 2.5x, second at 6x, and the last at 20x. Horses are at 50 and 75 yards respectively. 6x optical mag. For all images, the brightness is set to 3, PID CE at 1, and contrast 1.
Weather conditions....rough. -3⁰ at the time of these pictures and it's been overcast/snowing for the last 3 days.
From what I have seen on other threads, the xELR is going to have a slight edge on magnification support due to the massive germanium lens, better warranty, longer battery life, and potentially better recoil rating. The cons are weight and profile, so it comes down to your personal use case. All in all, if you want max magnification support, the xELR is your brother in Christ. If you want something smaller that still has a ton of magnification support and is primarily going to be used on AR-type platforms, then the Voodoo M has an edge. Not trying to poo poo on the thread, just merely a comparison to add to the info placed above (I'll start a dedicated thread on this.)
Weather conditions....rough. -3⁰ at the time of these pictures and it's been overcast/snowing for the last 3 days.
From what I have seen on other threads, the xELR is going to have a slight edge on magnification support due to the massive germanium lens, better warranty, longer battery life, and potentially better recoil rating. The cons are weight and profile, so it comes down to your personal use case. All in all, if you want max magnification support, the xELR is your brother in Christ. If you want something smaller that still has a ton of magnification support and is primarily going to be used on AR-type platforms, then the Voodoo M has an edge. Not trying to poo poo on the thread, just merely a comparison to add to the info placed above (I'll start a dedicated thread on this.)
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DownRangeThermal
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Working on 2023 but i wouldn't expect any new deliveries until 2nd quarter of next yr.
TigIR 6z+ vs ClipIR-ELR. Group of cars in the dark, approximately 200 yards, roughly 6.5x magnification.
HVAC units on top of an industrial building, 600 yards, 10x mag. The bright thing in the middle is a halogen light source.
Not even a contest.
HVAC units on top of an industrial building, 600 yards, 10x mag. The bright thing in the middle is a halogen light source.
Not even a contest.
Just further reinforces that the Tig was a severe underpreformer in the LR category
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