Episode 119/120 Barreled action in Chassis vs AI

[Jeremy45]

Y'all mentioned in the podcast that Frank doesn't talk about AI as much as he used to and Mike is a huge fan of AI because that is one of the products Mile High is huge into. I understand this and their reputation is amazing and they're a system etc. But I'm curious how much someone is actually giving up if they buy a barrel action on a Bighorn and drop it in a chassis?

Is there going to be a noticable reduction in reliability, or precision etc or is in squeezing the last 2% out of a system? With the weekend "happy middle of the pack" shooter notice a difference at all?

I don't have a reason for this other than to satisfy my own curiosity.

Thanks in advance,
Jeremy

 

[Long Range 338]

There are reasons for both, for example if you wanted a 224 Valkyrie bolt gun you can't get that in an AI. But you can get the Bighorn with the changeable bolt face and drop it into the chassis.... The AX is an awesome piece of hardware barrels prefit and sitting on shelves. The only downside is if you want to wander of the beaten path and use cartridges not supported by their bolt faces and magazines. I'm sure there are many other reasons for both sides, this is just what I've been pondering myself for the last couple of weeks.

 

[PBWalsh]

With the AIs, you are definitely buying into a system. With a barreled action, you have many more options for customizing the rifle for your preferences. Any AI you get is going to be a heavier, dropping a BA in a MCS platinum or a MCM Edge is going to be lighter than an AI with their chassis. That is a plus for a field rifle. I love my AIAT, but it is a heavier rifle (15.5 pounds, 20" folder), and I haven't even added a bipod or can. That not SUPER heavy like a match rifle, but for a practical field rifle its getting heavier than I would personally like. 15.5+ pounds is hard to get into action real fast like a lighter 10 - 13 pound rifle will be.

 

[mercracing]

The AI will give you the ultimate in reliability. Everything is made by/for AI and it all works together, usually better then a Lego gun. It will be heavier then a lot of customs. You can order a barrel in lots of common calibers and have it show up at your house the next day. I have one because I wanted my rifle not to fail.

 

[Jeremy45]

So the choice really comes down to whether one values an arguably more reliable (I don't read of failures with the bighorn actions) system or the option to run any caliber that tickles your fancy on one action? I guess the weak point in assemblying your own isn't so much the action but how it and the trigger, barrel & chassis all run together?

Makes sense to me, thanks for the input.

Jeremy

 

[NateVA]

So the choice really comes down to whether one values an arguably more reliable (I don't read of failures with the bighorn actions) system or the option to run any caliber that tickles your fancy on one action?

Failures don't tend to happen very often for any of these actions either way. Comparing the AI and Bighorn on reliability isn't much of a fair comparison though. I don't think Bighorn designed their action for police/military use in extreme environments like AI did.

 

[Basher]

Most of the custom actions out there will be as reliable as any other. Each has had plenty of intelligent folks put hundreds of hours into designing and machining them.

The problems can arise when you start putting them together. Using quality components will more or less eliminate any issues. However, since we're talking about man-made components all made separate from each other, issues can come up with how they all "play" with each other.

The AI, while still man-made and thus prone to failures, has been refined, as a system, for several decades and has proven itself over and over.

It's a tough capl to make for sure! I made it myself a few days ago after several weeks of debate. I was very off and on, going so far as to pick up a KRG W3 for my Bighorn to go with the Manners I had for it. But in the end, I made a (very!) difficult call and have listed the Bighorn and it's accessories. I'll absolutely build/buy another at some point, but after having owned my AIAT, I've decided that it will be the one rifle I never sell unless I can't put food on the table or keep a roof over the family's heads.

Both will make you happy, I can guarantee you that. But if you can handle a little extra weight and the chassis "fits" you, the AI is worth the hype, IMO.

 

[Mormegil87]

It's not the action that fails in comp guns from what I see. It's the trigger. It's the sand and who know what else that gums them up. It's the guy that pulls back on a bolt and separates his projectile from his case and dumps powder into his trigger housing that causes failures more than the actual action itself. Though I have see firing pins get hung up.

Where the AI shines versus a custom and for the record I've had several of each, just ask @mercracing , is that the AI is almost entirely user serviceable in the field with a 4mm hex key and a 49in pound torque limiter. So if something does go wrong, whether it's a trigger, bolt, firing pin, barrel, chassis or action action that has problems it's a relatively easy fix with one or two tools. That's why I prefer an AI over a custom but it is a personal preference. It all depends on what you want as a shooter.

 

[mercracing]

Another thing is if push comes to shove you can use someone else’s AI parts in a match.

 

[Jeremy45]

Sharing parts could be a huge help if your shooting partners are running the same thing.

I didn't realize how few tools you need to work on an AI, that is a definite plus since I loose tools more often than I would like to admit.

 

[Mormegil87]

You can pull firing pin assembly from your bolt with nothing more than your two hands.

I watch a shooter at the 2015 SHC blow a primer in his AT, pop the barrel off quick, pulled the firing pin from the bolt, check and clean the debris out. Then reassembled the whole thing in time to shoot the whole stage.

 

[Mormegil87]

I carry:

25, 49, 65 in/lbs torque limiters
Fix It sticks handles
various driver bits
NF scope tool

That's it. I really don't even need the 25 or 65lb limiters but they came in the kits and I can use the 25in/lb limiter for my scope rings.

I can get by with the 49in/lb limiter and the supplied AI 4mm hex and accomplish most of what I need.

 

[Mormegil87]

Also @Jeremy45 for reference my AXMC with steel barrel, TBAC suppressor, scope and mount comes in at 18.8 lbs. Proof barrel at 17.6 using my YHM Phantom suppressor.

A year or two a go that would have been considered too heavy and now they're almost considered too light.

 

[MarinePMI]

You can pull firing pin assembly from your bolt with nothing more than your two hands.

I watch a shooter at the 2015 SHC blow a primer in his AT, pop the barrel off quick, pulled the firing pin from the bolt, check and clean the debris out. Then reassembled the whole thing in time to shoot the whole stage.

This^^^^

I was in this squad (in fact, I was the one holding the action while the shooter unscrewed the barrel to clear the action (primer was caught in the bolt lug recess, and had resulted from rain getting on the ammo that caused a pressure spike). I watched him screw the barrel back in, and engage the next set of targets that began at 600yds, and went out after that.

I had just gotten my AI-AT before SHC15, so was new to the platform. After watching the above event I was friggin' sold (and grateful) to have made the decision to go with AI.

 

[Lowlight]

it's not always "Failures'

• It's Issues Feeding Magazines
• It's Triggers that Fail
• It's Bolt Stop Pins that Break
• It's Galling
• It's Dirt and Debris fouling it up

Shit does break in the pure form of the term, stuff "messes up" and then gets fixed fast and overlooked

I have seen plenty of actions not works as advertised and Competition Dynamic put a video years ago of all the custom actions fouling up in the Safari Matches. It's probably still on YT.

Accuracy International is bulletproof... I said I don't talk about them as much but we still use them all the same. I just have access to a greater variety of rifles so I tend to talk about that vs my go to AI

 

[Lowlight]

here is the video, old and poor quality but you might get it

 

[Jeremy45]

All this is making a ton of sense. Maybe I'm not the only one who thinks this way but when I hear go with the AI because if tough or bomb proof or great for jump out of helicopters etc. I find myself thinking "I'm not in that profession or don't do that so why spend the money". But this discussion turns that around for me. I now hear "go with the AI, it's user serviceable, field repairable, rarely has issues as it is assembled in one working unit". These are all things that I like.

I have stuck with Glock pistols for the same reason. Left in factory configuration I rarely have any issues with them. I understand them and can work on them. They have the added benefit of being inexpensive but they don't take up a lot of my time tweaking minor things to get them right like some other guns do. It seems like the AI is in this category. There are limited options and they all look the same but for the most part they work and let you worry about other things.

I really appreciate the discussion and enjoy the input along with the podcast!

Thanks,
Jeremy

 

[Jeremy45]

Great video Frank! I'd seen it before but completely forgot about it.

 

[Jakerz]

The ability to call up Mile High or your favorite gunsmith and tell them you need a barrel in any caliber supported by your bolt face made to X dimensions for an AI and change the barrel yourself, with just the 4mm Allen key that's under the cheek piece on the stock, and your hands is amazing to me. Number 1 reason I want to get one now for sure.

Jake

 

[Hippy_Steve]

I have two bolt rifles: my m70 in 300winmag for backcountry hunting, and my AIAT for everything else. Snipershide members convinced me to get an AT instead of building a parts gun. I'm glad I did, the AT is an incredible rifle and will stay on my do-not-sell list for life.

 

[QuarterHorse]

I had been looking at going custom build and then realized I was in used AI territory. I then started looking into an AI. I've now been looking for a used AT Folder for reasons above and others. I have other bolt guns for backpack hunting I can use to save weight, the AI will serve all other duties.

 

[Tree]

Interesting enough I actually built a custom gun. Got it together and decided to sell it before shooting. I then purchased a used AT from a guy here on snipershide. Sold the barreled action with trigger for damn near what I paid for the AT (no barrel). Now have the Manners to unload and I will be ahead in what it cost. Personally there is absolutely nothing wrong with either option but I have a preference to AI. As others have said the ability to change out a barrel anytime anywhere is a great plus. Reliability is a big deal for me and have never had an issue with the AE Mkiii have. Now I have 2. Maybe someday I will get the AXMC.

 

[MarinePMI]

I had been looking at going custom build and then realized I was in used AI territory. I then started looking into an AI. I've now been looking for a used AT Folder for reasons above and others. I have other bolt guns for backpack hunting I can use to save weight, the AI will serve all other duties.

Don't forget to give Mile HIgh and Eurooptics a call to see what demo models they have available...usually some pretty good deals to be had. Also, IIRC, they still offer (both of them) a Sniper's Hide discount (just give them you're handle here on the Hide).

 

[QuarterHorse]

Don't forget to give Mile HIgh and Eurooptics a call to see what demo models they have available...usually some pretty good deals to be had. Also, IIRC, they still offer (both of them) a Sniper's Hide discount (just give them you're handle here on the Hide).

I had no idea thanks for the heads up!