- Thread starter MarkCZ
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The tuners are nice, they look nicer than the Harrell's and such. I find the Harrell's to be more precise in tuning, but the EC tuner will still work.
I have the EC Tuner on a Shilen Ratchet 24.5" barrel that is tapered and not a thick barrel like every seems to buy for rimfires. It shoots ok without it , but once the tuner is on there is a big improvement, even with a suppressor. On my Mullen thicker barrel , I think it is a M24 there is a slight improvement.
Explain.
A lot of methods of tuning but a common one is around harmonic frequencies and that is a factor of the barrel length and adding additional length to the end of the barrel. The Purdy method for example on a 22" barrel and the 7th harmonic puts the extended length to somewhere around 24.5". So 2.5" past the muzzle. An ec tuner doesn't do that.
Ignoring that - We have general tuning like the Harrell's tuner. It has 500 settings and each revolution is 25 clicks. So 20 revolutions. The EC tuner only allows for about 5 revolutions.
Also those tuners will allow for further extensions and weight attachments to find that perfect tune. The EC tuner doesn't.
EC tuner gives you a rough PRS tune. I wouldn't say it compares to the benchrest tuning.
Ignoring that - We have general tuning like the Harrell's tuner. It has 500 settings and each revolution is 25 clicks. So 20 revolutions. The EC tuner only allows for about 5 revolutions.
Also those tuners will allow for further extensions and weight attachments to find that perfect tune. The EC tuner doesn't.
EC tuner gives you a rough PRS tune. I wouldn't say it compares to the benchrest tuning.
There is insignificant numerical data to scientifically prove you have one coming for Christmas.
If it sucks, you got a fancy thread protector for Christmas.
Do any of these tuners have detents? If not they all are infinitely adjustable. You really only need 360* to get the weight dialed in. That's why a tuner is a tuner. Some look cooler or are easier to adjust and some require a barrel to be profiled but they all do the same fucking thing in essentialy the same way.
The Harrell adjusts by thousandths of an inch. What does a click on the EC equal?
In my experience 80 percent of the range (half inch) of a Harrell is not needed to find a tune. The ability to alter the weight is valuable depending on barrel length/profile.
Yes, they all do the same thing essentially the same way but not equally well depending on the application.
In my experience 80 percent of the range (half inch) of a Harrell is not needed to find a tune. The ability to alter the weight is valuable depending on barrel length/profile.
Yes, they all do the same thing essentially the same way but not equally well depending on the application.
I don't buy that all you need is one rotation to find the best tune. Killoughs has been tuning rimfire rifles in their tunnel and they test out the 5 revolutions that EC supports or the 20 for Harrell
EC tuner extends out by about .5"
Harrell's I think goes out 1"
Tangent Theta should make one
In the 3 rifles I've tuned with the EC tuner. In one is out 2 revolutions. 1 is at 3.5. And another is at 4.5
What distance out do these settings correspond to? IE. One click on a Harrell is a thous, a revolution is 25 clicks/thous.
I suppose if you wanted you could measure the rotation as finely as you like, nothing stopping you but a $5 flexible ruler. (or use a calipers for an OAL measurement)
The point being made is unless there is a detent for each marking, they are Infinitely adjustable. Just because there is no marking doesn't mean you can set it to where it's best in tune. It's a mass of weight on the end of the gun that will favor in one direction 360 to get the harmonics in line. If you can't find the tune in one revolution, you are skipping over an optimal setting most likely.
Correct me if I misunderstood your statement, you could find the optimum tune in one complete revolution of a tuner? IE a Harrell would be 25 clicks or 0.025 from the zero mark.
Lee
That is true. I am hoping it is coming. I have been good.
Its simple. You are rotating mass around the barrel until that mass minimizes the harmonic wave or frequency or whatever the fuck it is. Having the mass in the same spot on the barrel but being 1/8th of inch or less down the barrel is insignificant.
Having more than a full rotation in pointless. You have 0-360* to figure out where that mass needs to be to optimize group size.
A tuner is a fucking tuner is a fucking tuner. They all do the same thing. Thats why there are like a dozen plus different brands and everyone claims theirs works. They do.
And unless you are shooting benchrest or the other nerd disciplines, they aren't even needed. For PRS22/NRL22/X just about any quality match ammo will shoot accurate enough to win. I threw an ATS tuner on my vudoo and haven't even touched it. Still winning matches. Everything I have shot through it is a ragged hole and easy to get hits out past 400. Its just extra mass on the end of the barrel now to help with balance.
Having more than a full rotation in pointless. You have 0-360* to figure out where that mass needs to be to optimize group size.
A tuner is a fucking tuner is a fucking tuner. They all do the same thing. Thats why there are like a dozen plus different brands and everyone claims theirs works. They do.
And unless you are shooting benchrest or the other nerd disciplines, they aren't even needed. For PRS22/NRL22/X just about any quality match ammo will shoot accurate enough to win. I threw an ATS tuner on my vudoo and haven't even touched it. Still winning matches. Everything I have shot through it is a ragged hole and easy to get hits out past 400. Its just extra mass on the end of the barrel now to help with balance.
To whom it may concern ...
This is the first time I have ever seen reference to the idea that a 'tune' is the optimal axial position of the rotating mass that is the tuner.
The rest of us misguided souls believe that some combination of mass and position of that mass in the axis of the barrel, usually beyond the muzzle, will in fact provide the optimal tune. Pity us, if only we had known.
I for one have mistakenly been a disciple, nay, a follower, even a sheep, fooled by the alleged expertise of the practitioners of the nerd disciplines. That unwashed horde of national level benchrest shooters who have led me astray. I hang my head in shame that I have been so foolish.
This is the first time I have ever seen reference to the idea that a 'tune' is the optimal axial position of the rotating mass that is the tuner.
The rest of us misguided souls believe that some combination of mass and position of that mass in the axis of the barrel, usually beyond the muzzle, will in fact provide the optimal tune. Pity us, if only we had known.
I for one have mistakenly been a disciple, nay, a follower, even a sheep, fooled by the alleged expertise of the practitioners of the nerd disciplines. That unwashed horde of national level benchrest shooters who have led me astray. I hang my head in shame that I have been so foolish.
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The thread pitch on the EC tuners is 20, so one revolution equals .050"....
Winning matches???
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I will throw in my 2 cents. I have both styles of EC tuners. The original and the V2 new style. Both of them are actually threaded onto the barrels by the gunsmith no adapters. The V2 I have is actually a prototype made for a M24 contour barrel.
The original is I believe 4 turns out at 0. It was tuned by Joeseph at Killoughs using his method and I have never touched it since. The gun hammers with just about any decent match ammo.
My second rifle with the V2 was just tuned by Joseph last week and it ended up 2 turns in on 0. The V2 starts at the very end of the barrel and the turns screw it onto the threads.
I had always heard and even from reading what Eric Cortina had put out that 1 revolution was all that was needed. Simply not true. You are leaving some on the table if you stop at one rev imo. I have read or watched on YouTube where Eric actually states that his new tuner (V2) was designed so it could be screwed onto the barrel more that one revolution and not have the threads showing like on the original version.
Hope this helps add to the confusion
The original is I believe 4 turns out at 0. It was tuned by Joeseph at Killoughs using his method and I have never touched it since. The gun hammers with just about any decent match ammo.
My second rifle with the V2 was just tuned by Joseph last week and it ended up 2 turns in on 0. The V2 starts at the very end of the barrel and the turns screw it onto the threads.
I had always heard and even from reading what Eric Cortina had put out that 1 revolution was all that was needed. Simply not true. You are leaving some on the table if you stop at one rev imo. I have read or watched on YouTube where Eric actually states that his new tuner (V2) was designed so it could be screwed onto the barrel more that one revolution and not have the threads showing like on the original version.
Hope this helps add to the confusion
I will throw in my 2 cents. I have both styles of EC tuners. The original and the V2 new style. Both of them are actually threaded onto the barrels by the gunsmith no adapters. The V2 I have is actually a prototype made for a M24 contour barrel.
The original is I believe 4 turns out at 0. It was tuned by Joeseph at Killoughs using his method and I have never touched it since. The gun hammers with just about any decent match ammo.
My second rifle with the V2 was just tuned by Joseph last week and it ended up 2 turns in on 0. The V2 starts at the very end of the barrel and the turns screw it onto the threads.
I had always heard and even from reading what Eric Cortina had put out that 1 revolution was all that was needed. Simply not true. You are leaving some on the table if you stop at one rev imo. I have read or watched on YouTube where Eric actually states that his new tuner (V2) was designed so it could be screwed onto the barrel more that one revolution and not have the threads showing like on the original version.
Hope this helps add to the confusion
Sounds like you found the magical frequency where all projectiles leave the barrel at the exact same location.
Hey Will, you think you have been fooled in believing all that RFBR stuff. look at me I been using as little mass as possible. no wonder I couldn't put all 50 shots inside the quarter at 100yds.
Lee
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Hey Sam, I guess John has it wrong too, no wonder he finished 5th at the indoor nationals! and tied a 3-year-old record.
I have been well.
Lee
Can’t tell if that’s sarcasm or sarcasm lol. I don’t pretend to know it all just stating what I have found.Sounds like you found the magical frequency where all projectiles leave the barrel at the exact same location.
That is the correct way to tune you have to shoot and adjust and not use some perceived notion you only have to go to a certain spot.I will throw in my 2 cents. I have both styles of EC tuners. The original and the V2 new style. Both of them are actually threaded onto the barrels by the gunsmith no adapters. The V2 I have is actually a prototype made for a M24 contour barrel.
The original is I believe 4 turns out at 0. It was tuned by Joeseph at Killoughs using his method and I have never touched it since. The gun hammers with just about any decent match ammo.
My second rifle with the V2 was just tuned by Joseph last week and it ended up 2 turns in on 0. The V2 starts at the very end of the barrel and the turns screw it onto the threads.
I had always heard and even from reading what Eric Cortina had put out that 1 revolution was all that was needed. Simply not true. You are leaving some on the table if you stop at one rev imo. I have read or watched on YouTube where Eric actually states that his new tuner (V2) was designed so it could be screwed onto the barrel more that one revolution and not have the threads showing like on the original version.
Hope this helps add to the confusion
once you find the correct setting you're done. I have one rifle that the tuner hasn't been touched in about 7 years and like your rifle it shoots just about anything.
Lee
There are more leagues than PRS but you know that. Won another match last weekend. If you want to try and doxx someone you are going to get banned so keep it up homey.Winning matches???
If they want to ban me for showing you don’t really have a clue what you are talking about and not you for just being the way you are it would be their loss. Have a nice night and keep up the winning 
Tied? If he can't beat a 3 year old he should hang it up. How do their little fingers even reach the trigger?
Correction he didn't tie the record, he tied with 4th place but lost the tie breaker by 2X
Sapling sniper does that mean you always miss on the first shot?
Lee
To the OP Mark CZ I apologize for going off subject. if you use the same method as Shayne Ward did to tune you will be fine.
I would add go by no more than 5 marks or clicks when adjusting anything more and you could pass over the setting you are looking for.
good luck with the tuning.
Lee
I would add go by no more than 5 marks or clicks when adjusting anything more and you could pass over the setting you are looking for.
good luck with the tuning.
Lee
No I always hit, no matter how small the tree branch is.Sapling sniper does that mean you always miss on the first shot?
What is his tuning method?I will throw in my 2 cents. I have both styles of EC tuners. The original and the V2 new style. Both of them are actually threaded onto the barrels by the gunsmith no adapters. The V2 I have is actually a prototype made for a M24 contour barrel.
The original is I believe 4 turns out at 0. It was tuned by Joeseph at Killoughs using his method and I have never touched it since. The gun hammers with just about any decent match ammo.
My second rifle with the V2 was just tuned by Joseph last week and it ended up 2 turns in on 0. The V2 starts at the very end of the barrel and the turns screw it onto the threads.
I had always heard and even from reading what Eric Cortina had put out that 1 revolution was all that was needed. Simply not true. You are leaving some on the table if you stop at one rev imo. I have read or watched on YouTube where Eric actually states that his new tuner (V2) was designed so it could be screwed onto the barrel more that one revolution and not have the threads showing like on the original version.
Hope this helps add to the confusion
Picked 5 random lots and fired 2 shots from each lot for a 10 shot group at each revolution. Found the revolution that grouped the best and then tested all around that area until narrowing it down to the final setting. That’s the short and sweet version anyway…
Attached pic is 10 shots from 5 random lots. Lot speeds ranged from 1050-1085 but if you know Eley ammo that doesn’t mean anything. He isn’t the only person that tunes like this as I have read elsewhere of this method. I like having him do the tuning because it takes a lot of the variables out of the equation.
Without a doubt it works. I had a baseline on some Tenex that had before going there and was totally unimpressed with the lot in this rifle. What was a great lot in another rifle wasn’t even a player for practice ammo in this rifle imo. After him tuning the rifle the same lot is printing .75 average 5 shot groups at 100 yards.
For what it’s worth I have 2 Vudoo rifles chambered by MCR with Krieger barrels. One at 25.5” long and one at 27” long. They both shoot the same lots of ammo equally well. Really tough to pick the best rifle. The 27” shoots some of the lots from the 25.5” better than it did. But…. The lot that was tested at Eley for the 27” the 25.5” shoots better.
Both rifles are exactly the same otherwise and both wear a 7x35 ATACR. The pic with the 4x20 was just when I slapped it together.
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Bought one today so having my barrel threaded for it while it’s getting chambered.
I've got 2 of them. Once they are tuned, LEAVE THEM WHERE THEY ARE.... Have found that they aren't repeatable when taking the barrel out of tune and going back to the original setting.
Have seen some good improvement from them on my LW 1:12, 24" though. Dropped about 1/2 MOA out of my group at 100.
Have another on a Proof prefit carbon (1:16, 20") that's on my daughter's Rim-x. It "helped" but didn't see much improvement with a range of ammo/lots.
Have seen some good improvement from them on my LW 1:12, 24" though. Dropped about 1/2 MOA out of my group at 100.
Have another on a Proof prefit carbon (1:16, 20") that's on my daughter's Rim-x. It "helped" but didn't see much improvement with a range of ammo/lots.
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V1 or V2? With adapters?
V2's.
My LW 1-12 uses a 3/4-24 that's been modified so that face of the tuner is at the muzzle. My daughter's Proof is using an out of the box 1/2-28 adapter.
I wondered about how repeatable they were. Would you find you were close to the tune or required a lot of adjustment?
I retune with each lot anyway so as long as you stick with a setting that works for a particular lot, you’re good. Just don’t move off of that setting with a large adjustment.
Help me out here, I have a voodoo 360 with a 20 inch MTU barrel. I only shoot PRS with it. I see the process of the tune at 50yds then fine tune out to 200. Do you find that the fine tune holds good for 50-350yds? Or are guys changing the tune for known farther/closer targets? Im essentially trying to sort out if a tuner is beneficial also to PRS/Mars stuff
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