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Ever train without earpro?

slowkota

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Mar 9, 2010
686
10
Eau Claire, Wisconsin
Do you ever shoot without ear protection?

I'm talking about getting familiar with shooting your primary firearm/firearms, or CCW without ear protection.

Personally I shoot 4-5 rounds out of any firearm I own without ear protection... Just so I know what I can expect in a real-life situation.

Not advocating shootin without "ears"... But IMHO it's vital for a CCW carrier!

Thoughts, Opinions?
 
Re: Ever train without earpro?

When I was younger, we never wore ear protection. As a result, I have constant ringing in my ears. It was a poor decision on my part.

In my opinion, the dynamics of a personal defense situation are going to be so different than shooting at a range that noise would be only a minor factor.
 
Re: Ever train without earpro?

You need to do some reading up about the physiological effects on the human body in a traumatic situation, and something called auditory exclusion.

Wear your earpro and you'll be thankful later. Training without is is not necessary, you'll never notice the volume of your gunfire in a life and death situation anyhow, and is VERY hazardous to your health and well being to train without it.
 
Re: Ever train without earpro?

I find that i dont really notice the noise when firing under stress. But in saying that i have lost at least 1/2 the hearing from my right ear from times when the task just didnt facilitate earpro.

When situation permits, its smart to conserve a finite attribute like your hearing.
 
Re: Ever train without earpro?

If you are faced with a shooting, auditory exclusion will take over MOST of the time. In tight spaces such as a car or extremely small room you will still have auditory exclusion but you will definitely notice concussion more.

I WOULD never train without hearing protection. I would highly advise you though to train in tighter spaces and low light as much as you possibly can. Those will be the most beneficial IMHO
 
Re: Ever train without earpro?

I have done a fare bit of shooting without ear protection and after twenty years of shooting I wish I had use ear protection a bit more.

I still shoot without it from time to time when hunting or when something needs to be shot but if I can help it I will be wearing ear protection.
 
Re: Ever train without earpro?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Redmanss</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You need to do some reading up about the physiological effects on the human body in a traumatic situation, and something called auditory exclusion.

Wear your earpro and you'll be thankful later. Training without is is not necessary, you'll never notice the volume of your gunfire in a life and death situation anyhow, and is VERY hazardous to your health and well being to train without it. </div></div>

Ah, I've never heard of auditory exclusion before... I've got some reading to do!
 
Re: Ever train without earpro?

I'm 30 and have noticeable hearing loss, not nearly as bad as some older folks I've known, but it really sucks, and the docs say it will get worse.

Mine's not all from firearms, mostly occupational, but some surely is, wear earpro when training.
With the new tech allowing you to hear or even amplify low level sounds there's no reason not to wear it hunting either really, or supress if that's an option.

I doubt you will never notice the sound in the moment if you have to make a shot in defense of your life. Most hunters don't and the stakes aren't nearly as high.
 
Re: Ever train without earpro?

I guess I shouldn't have used the word "train"... More like knowing what to expect if/when the time comes.

But ya'll already answered.

I'm 27 and do yearly OSHA hearing tests, and my test results show that I have excellent hearing... Even though I think my hearing sucks! lol
 
Re: Ever train without earpro?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MJY65</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When I was younger, we never wore ear protection. As a result, I have constant ringing in my ears. It was a poor decision on my part </div></div>

Same here

cool.gif
buy a suppressor if ear pros not for you :3
 
Re: Ever train without earpro?

Two years ago, I had to loan my earpro to a child. Just that one session resulted in permanant and very significant hearing loss. I was in pain afterward for nearly two weeks after a ported 12ga slug gun was fired unexpectedly about 6 ft away. I now need hearing assistance most of the time.

If I were to arrive at the range and discover I was without hearing protecion, I'd pack right back up and leave. It's that important, and there is no such thing as 'getting away with it just this once'.

Actually, that's unlikely because I now maintain several sets of backup earplugs in my cars' glove compartments. They're cheap and it never hurts to have a little insurance along.

Meanwile, I've upgraded my standard protection to Peltor Tactical 6S Electronic muffs. At $60 in Wal-Mart, it's not a bad compromise. They're cheap enough to buy pairs for my Grandkids, which makes coaching them less intrusive to the other shooters while we're on the line at one of our club matches.

Greg
 
Re: Ever train without earpro?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: slowkota</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm 27 and do yearly OSHA hearing tests, and my test results show that I have excellent hearing... Even though I think my hearing sucks! lol </div></div>

I got those too, always excellent, then one year they had to test me three times before I was able to barely pass. And the next year I only did because the loss was "acceptable" from the previous year. Its a terrible feeling sitting in that booth knowing you should be hitting the button, but not hearing any beeps.

You only get to lose it once.
 
Re: Ever train without earpro?

Trust me, if you are shooting at someone or being shot at, you won't even notice the sound of your weapon firing. Hell, I've seen guys who could barely walk due to a broken ankle from jumping off a bird during an insert completely forget that their ankle even hurt and ran around during the fight like it was 100%.

Do not hurt your hearing during training on something that will give you no benefit in an actual fight.

There was one time that I did notice how loud it was and did something about it. We took fire, and I maneuvered in between two of my guys that were talking their mk48 machine guns. So one was to my left about 10 feet and another was about 1 foot to my right. I started directing their fire on targets and was overwhelmed by the high intensity of gunfire and had to plug my ears when I wasn't pointing out targets. There is nothing I could have done to help me prepare for that and I know they probably didn't even notice the sound because they were focused on what I was directing them onto and actually killing the bad guys.

So once again, don't do it.
 
Re: Ever train without earpro?

Shooting without hearing protection is just plain stupid. No reason for it unless you want to be deaf later in life or have a constant ringing.
 
Re: Ever train without earpro?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: slowkota</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you ever shoot without ear protection?

I'm talking about getting familiar with shooting your primary firearm/firearms, or CCW without ear protection....

Thoughts, Opinions?</div></div>Waste of time: No training value.

I don't shoot myself with my Glock, either.
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Re: Ever train without earpro?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I don't shoot myself with my Glock, either.
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</div></div>

But shouldn't you to see what it would be like in a real life situation?
wink.gif
 
Re: Ever train without earpro?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't shoot myself with my Glock, either.
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</div></div> But shouldn't you to see what it would be like in a real life situation?
wink.gif
</div></div>After my department insisted that we all get sprayed with OC pepper spray, then tasered, I refused to sign-up for Glock training.
grin.gif
 
Re: Ever train without earpro?

Back when I was a kid I never wore ear protection whether i was shooting rifles or shotguns. I probably shot 20,000+ targets since I shot registered trap for about 5 years, not once did I wear ear plugs. I am now 31 with a constant ringing but some of that is due to working around heavy equipment and air tools.
 
Re: Ever train without earpro?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Niles Coyote</div><div class="ubbcode-body">add knife training to that list, Graham. </div></div>They tried that; with mixed results.
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Re: Ever train without earpro?

W H A T? I C A N ' T H E A R Y O U!

Realistically, I have shot shotguns since about 6 years old, that was almost 50 years ago. Yes, I can't hear shit; just ask anyone who shoots with me. Buy the best ear muffs you can get and wear foamies under them. Your hearing is a once in a life time gift. Enjoy shooting, but don't be stupid like many of us.
 
Re: Ever train without earpro?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I were to arrive at the range and discover I was without hearing protecion, I'd pack right back up and leave. It's that important, and there is no such thing as 'getting away with it just this once'.</div></div>

^This

I won't even take a shot at game without ears on. I've passed on some great deer because I didn't have earpro.

A deuchebag RO at a tactical match earlier this year got impatient with me because he felt I was taking too long to get my earplugs in. He started the clock before I had it in. So, I was forced to get it in "on the clock".

Your hearing is a commodity, treat it right.
 
Re: Ever train without earpro?

In the 28 or so years I've been shooting I never wore hearing protection unless I was at a public range, but now that I'm a little older and wiser I always have my muffs on when shooting.
 
Re: Ever train without earpro?

The surprise here is that anyone needs to be convinced of having a need for hearing protection. It makes me wonder if folks learned anything during their public school experience. Seems a lot of folks can't figure their way out of a wet paper bag these days.
 
Re: Ever train without earpro?

I've always wondered do people in the military have ear protection?
 
Re: Ever train without earpro?

I shot a pistol once without earpro (in a basement) when I was younger, I won't do it again unless the alternative is worse than being deaf.
 
Re: Ever train without earpro?

I get a kick out of the Home Defense Advocati who get all stoked up about 12ga buckshot and magnum handguns, and never make a peep about hearing protection while doing their planning to unleash those things within close confines. Mine are electronic Peltor Tactical 6S's, about $60 at Wal-Mart's sporting goods wall rack. They work fine at the range, I imagine they'd be pretty OK in the home too if I needed 'em for something defensive.

If I were gonna be setting up and deciding to unleash major doses of death and damnation from my bedside, the first thing I'd be reaching for is that set of tactical hearmuffs.

My only real home defense problem is the presence of Grandkids (one's 3 and she's an insomniac.) likely to be over here at our house any time of day or night (visiting our home from their home, a half a block walk away). That's no small problem.

I'm not a big fan of dogs, but I may have to consider one anyway. Right now, it's a very peaceful neighborhood. If that changes, I'll be needing to make some decisions. So will our two housecats.

I don't know what to say about what passes for public school education these days, or what folks do in the military today either.

Most schools these days go all ballistic at a mention of anything bordering on the subject of firearms, but their student body would do well to at least consider hearing protection in connection with the subject. If the schools are ignoring passing along that sort of info, they're cutting off their students' noses to spite their own administrations' bigoted faces.

When I was in the service, we were regularly exposed to training gunfire without hearing protection. Once or twice the DI's would give some half hearted advice about stuffing cigarette filters in our outer ear canals, but that's worse than just a joke. Hearing loss was considered an occupational norm.

At one point during a training march/ambush, some jacko even started blasting away with blanks in an M14, resting the fifle's forearm on my shoulder.

When on patrol out in Indian Country in 'Nam, hearing protection was not an option, and if you were caught in an ambush firefight, everybody was trying to recover from being deaf as stumps for hours afterward. That's assuming you survived in the first place. Hearing loss was not a high priority consideration.

Same-same when we were running nearly completely unmuffled Detroit Diesel 4-71 Supercharged 60KW field generator sets 24/7, which was my primary assignment over there for 13 months. This was in addition to night interdiction patrols, twice weekly ambush ops, and night perimeter guard duty; no time off from our day jobs. A fun time was had by all.

I seriously doubt anyone came out of Boot Camp and/or back home from 'Nam with the same degree of hearing acuity they went incountry with.

Greg
 
Re: Ever train without earpro?

I am not an advocate of wearing non-electronic hearing protection in a defensive situation, and few people have a $300 set of ear pro at their bedside. If I have to shoot without hearing protection I will (and I have). But there's absolutely no sense in training that way.

 
Re: Ever train without earpro?

Graham, I've personally seen/heard so little mention of defensive hearing protection that I'm actually quite interested in your view about it.

Do you think it's a bad thing, and if so, why? My comment referred to electronic protection, so I'm pretty sure you're not naysaying that.

I'm truly interested in your ideas on this. If my thinking is faulty, it would geneuinely help me to know the how and why of it.

Greg
 
Re: Ever train without earpro?

It's not a bad thing; like everything, it has advantages and disadvantages.

Regular muffs reduce your situational awareness. You need to be able to hear what is going-on around you and you need to be able to hear someone on the other end of a telephone.

The problem with electronic ear pro is that a cell phone signal will interfere with the electronics, so you can't use the ear cup of the muffs to hold a phone in place while you walk around.
 
Re: Ever train without earpro?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's not a bad thing; like everything, it has advantages and disadvantages.

Regular muffs reduce your situational awareness. You need to be able to hear what is going-on around you and you need to be able to hear someone on the other end of a telephone.

The problem with electronic ear pro is that a cell phone signal will interfere with the electronics, so you can't use the ear cup of the muffs to hold a phone in place while you walk around. </div></div>

True, but most of them seem to have an audio jack in them too. If it's not available for $15, it should be very easy to alter a cell phones plug in mic/earbuds to plug into your earpro. Then you can just drop the phone into a shirt pocket or something.
 
Re: Ever train without earpro?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The surprise here is that anyone needs to be convinced of having a need for hearing protection. It makes me wonder if folks learned anything during their public school experience. Seems a lot of folks can't figure their way out of a wet paper bag these days. </div></div>

Spot on.

To the OP, there is absolutely no reason to train without hearing protection. Stop doing that while you're still ahead and have some hearing left.
 
Re: Ever train without earpro?

Graham, I do keep a set of electronic ear pro next to the bed. I think having the option to use them is worth it. Time may not allow to get them on, and if that is the case so be it. Likewise, you can always pull one side off your year to get on the phone. It may not be a perfect solution, but I think it is worth the option.


Greg, be sure to dry out your ear muffs after using them. Mine never saw rain, but yet rusted/corroded just from perspiration when wearing them. They failed just after the warranty ran out. I upgraded after that, but always take the cups off and let them air out for a day or so after wearing them.
 
Re: Ever train without earpro?

Again, I shouldn't have used the term "Train"

I'm not retarded, I wear earpro while shooting.

I just thought that shooting a round or two without earpro would let me know just what to expect if I had to fire in a self defense situation w/o earpro... Now I know about the auditory exclusion.
 
Re: Ever train without earpro?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: slowkota</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just thought that shooting a round or two without earpro would let me know just what to expect if I had to fire in a self defense situation w/o earpro... Now I know about the auditory exclusion. </div></div>Auditory exclusion is not temporary deafness due to hearing a loud sound. Auditory exclusion is temporary hearing loss which occurs under high stress; it is yet another reason why there is no need to train without ear protection.
 
Re: Ever train without earpro?

When I have fired in self defense-I can't recall hearing more than a pop.Auditory exclusion 100%. Time was compressed-at least for me.

NO way can you possibly induce that much mental stress in training to duplicate a real tactical encounter.

Train to fight and you'll fight like you trained. Not protecting your hearing: 1)absolutely stupid-really. 2)you WILL damage your hearing. 3)You are purposely and knowingly risking ruining your life.

Hearing well,can SAVE your or others life. I shoot ALOT of 338LM and 50BMG and use earplugs and 30db cancelling ear muffs AT THE SAME TIME.
 
Re: Ever train without earpro?

Excellent question and most of the responses surprise me. You asked a question based on what you did not know versus what you already knew. When and if you have to discharge your weapon in defense of your life, hearing loss will not be the greater concern but surviving the encounter will take precedence. The benefit versus the risk is what you have to consider. Sometimes one exposure to a loud noise is sufficient to cause hearing loss, temporary or permanent. Often times, it's the repeated exposure to loud noise that will result in hearing loss. I wonder how many people listen to loud music, routinely operate power tools or lawn equipment without the benefit of hearing protection.
 
Re: Ever train without earpro?

Yes, I will, and thank you, I'd never thought about that.
 
Re: Ever train without earpro?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: slowkota</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thoughts, Opinions?</div></div>
Just a quick comment on a topic brought up in this thread:

Auditory exclusion is not hearing protection.

There is NO physiologic mechanism to prevent or damp the sound wave from reaching the inner ear, being conducted through the fluid, and killing the sensory hair cells in the cochlea.

In the stress of the moment, it may SEEM like the sound is dampened, and painful stimuli may not be perceived as painful. But the damage is being done.

Again, auditory exclusion does not prevent, or even reduce, hearing damage caused by loud noises in stressful situations.


Always wear hearing protection when training, even when shooting suppressed because most suppressed firearms aren't actually hearing safe. If the law permits, use a suppressor with your home defense weapon.