Suppressors Exit hole on .22 can?
- Thread starter rrdstarr
- Start date
Re: Exit hole on .22 can?
for what purpose? leave that to the manufacturers
for what purpose? leave that to the manufacturers
Re: Exit hole on .22 can?
Isn't it illegal to be making your own?
Isn't it illegal to be making your own?
G
Guest
Guest
Re: Exit hole on .22 can?
22lr works best w/a 0.238-0.240 exit. Remember you, can not, silence supersonic flight. Best to used subsonic ammo.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: matt700</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Isn't it illegal to be making your own?</div></div>
Not as long has he complies with his state regs, an it's on a form 1, for uncle. If he side steps either, an gets caught it's free lodging an meals for quite a while.
However voting is slightly over rated anyway.
22lr works best w/a 0.238-0.240 exit. Remember you, can not, silence supersonic flight. Best to used subsonic ammo.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: matt700</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Isn't it illegal to be making your own?</div></div>
Not as long has he complies with his state regs, an it's on a form 1, for uncle. If he side steps either, an gets caught it's free lodging an meals for quite a while.
However voting is slightly over rated anyway.
Re: Exit hole on .22 can?
Ours is .274".
It's a lot easier to make a quiet suppressor with a .240 bore, and if everything is just perfect that can work, but a little leading of the bore which will happen, and suddenly a bullet touches that lead, destabilizes, and a baffle strike ruins the can.
It is better to do the extra work, and get a design that will perform very well without a tight bore. At .274 the can will tolerate a lot of less than ideal factory barrel threads with no trouble, or more leading than will ever realistically occur, and that best serves the customer.
Ours is .274".
It's a lot easier to make a quiet suppressor with a .240 bore, and if everything is just perfect that can work, but a little leading of the bore which will happen, and suddenly a bullet touches that lead, destabilizes, and a baffle strike ruins the can.
It is better to do the extra work, and get a design that will perform very well without a tight bore. At .274 the can will tolerate a lot of less than ideal factory barrel threads with no trouble, or more leading than will ever realistically occur, and that best serves the customer.
Re: Exit hole on .22 can?
If the question is the end cap exit, I am more in the Gunfighter camp as leading issues are real but in the earlier stages.
If the question is the end cap exit, I am more in the Gunfighter camp as leading issues are real but in the earlier stages.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: Exit hole on .22 can?
Blast, baffle stack, or mono-core openings, are different than end cap opening, on many issued cans.
Best can I ever built was 0.240 exit, baffles at 0.250 with, blast at 0.260, 0.650 deep. OD of 1" x 4.75" long, it rocked on a High Standard HD. Interrupter threaded it only required 60* of lockup, very fast on/off.
Blast, baffle stack, or mono-core openings, are different than end cap opening, on many issued cans.
Best can I ever built was 0.240 exit, baffles at 0.250 with, blast at 0.260, 0.650 deep. OD of 1" x 4.75" long, it rocked on a High Standard HD. Interrupter threaded it only required 60* of lockup, very fast on/off.
Re: Exit hole on .22 can?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Blast, baffle stack, or mono-core openings, are different than end cap opening, on many issued cans.
Best can I ever built was 0.240 exit, baffles at 0.250 with, blast at 0.260, 0.650 deep. OD of 1" x 4.75" long, it rocked on a High Standard HD. Interrupter threaded it only required 60* of lockup, very fast on/off.
</div></div>
That kind of stuff will work on one gun specifically built to work with it and even then you might easily have endcap strikes at some point- definitely if the can ever broke loose at the thread for even one round.
In retail sale, you'd have most of them coming back with shot up front caps, some with shot up baffles. The reputation would hit the garbage in short order.
.260 is probably a good threshold for a safe bore on a thread mount that will be going on properly threaded barrels.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Blast, baffle stack, or mono-core openings, are different than end cap opening, on many issued cans.
Best can I ever built was 0.240 exit, baffles at 0.250 with, blast at 0.260, 0.650 deep. OD of 1" x 4.75" long, it rocked on a High Standard HD. Interrupter threaded it only required 60* of lockup, very fast on/off.
</div></div>
That kind of stuff will work on one gun specifically built to work with it and even then you might easily have endcap strikes at some point- definitely if the can ever broke loose at the thread for even one round.
In retail sale, you'd have most of them coming back with shot up front caps, some with shot up baffles. The reputation would hit the garbage in short order.
.260 is probably a good threshold for a safe bore on a thread mount that will be going on properly threaded barrels.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: Exit hole on .22 can?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Griffin Armament</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
That kind of stuff will work on one gun specifically built to work with it and even then you might easily have endcap strikes at some point- definitely if the can ever broke loose at the thread for even one round.
In retail sale, you'd have most of them coming back with shot up front caps, some with shot up baffles. The reputation would hit the garbage in short order.
.260 is probably a good threshold for a safe bore on a thread mount that will be going on properly threaded barrels. </div></div>
That is the nice thing about being able to roll your own, you don't have to have it like Micky-D's, or off the shelf. Nor do others, once they are up to speed.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Griffin Armament</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
That kind of stuff will work on one gun specifically built to work with it and even then you might easily have endcap strikes at some point- definitely if the can ever broke loose at the thread for even one round.
In retail sale, you'd have most of them coming back with shot up front caps, some with shot up baffles. The reputation would hit the garbage in short order.
.260 is probably a good threshold for a safe bore on a thread mount that will be going on properly threaded barrels. </div></div>
That is the nice thing about being able to roll your own, you don't have to have it like Micky-D's, or off the shelf. Nor do others, once they are up to speed.
Re: Exit hole on .22 can?
Damn, I got it wrong again, apprently the number is zero...
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3287978#Post3287978
Damn, I got it wrong again, apprently the number is zero...
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3287978#Post3287978
Re: Exit hole on .22 can?
Remember guys, making a suppressor for a air rifle in the US is a no-no , without the form 1 stamp.
Remember guys, making a suppressor for a air rifle in the US is a no-no , without the form 1 stamp.
Re: Exit hole on .22 can?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pat M</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Remember guys, making a suppressor for a air rifle in the US is a no-no , without the form 1 stamp. </div></div>
Can't you do so as long as the suppressor is permanently attached to the air rifle? Or would the suppressor then be illegal for at least a brief period if not built on the barrel? The local Cabelas sells a couple air rifles with integral suppressors, for example.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pat M</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Remember guys, making a suppressor for a air rifle in the US is a no-no , without the form 1 stamp. </div></div>
Can't you do so as long as the suppressor is permanently attached to the air rifle? Or would the suppressor then be illegal for at least a brief period if not built on the barrel? The local Cabelas sells a couple air rifles with integral suppressors, for example.
Re: Exit hole on .22 can?
We sure have a lot of guessers on here. You might want to read the law.
We sure have a lot of guessers on here. You might want to read the law.
Re: Exit hole on .22 can?
When I made my first 22lr can I used a bore of .300" throughout, it works ok. My second 22lr can was made of steel and varied the baffle bore from .250" to .300"; it works much better.
Ranb
When I made my first 22lr can I used a bore of .300" throughout, it works ok. My second 22lr can was made of steel and varied the baffle bore from .250" to .300"; it works much better.
Ranb
Re: Exit hole on .22 can?
Here is the law;
18 U.S.C. 921(a)(3)(C).
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The definition of “firearm silencer” and “firearm muffler” in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(24) provides as follows: The terms “firearm silencer” and “firearm muffler” mean any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.</div></div>
And an ATF ruling (not a law) about a paintball gun silencer;
http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2005-4.pdf
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Noteworthy, the definition of “firearm silencer” and “firearm muffler” requires that the device be one for diminishing the report of a portable firearm. The device under consideration is permanently attached to and an integral part of a paintball gun, which is not a firearm as defined in the GCA or NFA. The device cannot be removed from the paintball gun without destroying the barrel and rendering the paintball gun unusable. Under these circumstances, the integral device is not a firearm muffler or firearm silencer.</div></div>
While this ruling says that an integral silencer attached to something that is not a fiream is not a silencer, if it is removed than it would construed to be intent to make a silencer. It would be a good idea to read the entire ruling.
Personally I would not suppress any air rifle uless it was a pre-charged model (3000 psi) and then it would be with a registered silencer.
Ranb
Here is the law;
18 U.S.C. 921(a)(3)(C).
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The definition of “firearm silencer” and “firearm muffler” in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(24) provides as follows: The terms “firearm silencer” and “firearm muffler” mean any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.</div></div>
And an ATF ruling (not a law) about a paintball gun silencer;
http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2005-4.pdf
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Noteworthy, the definition of “firearm silencer” and “firearm muffler” requires that the device be one for diminishing the report of a portable firearm. The device under consideration is permanently attached to and an integral part of a paintball gun, which is not a firearm as defined in the GCA or NFA. The device cannot be removed from the paintball gun without destroying the barrel and rendering the paintball gun unusable. Under these circumstances, the integral device is not a firearm muffler or firearm silencer.</div></div>
While this ruling says that an integral silencer attached to something that is not a fiream is not a silencer, if it is removed than it would construed to be intent to make a silencer. It would be a good idea to read the entire ruling.
Personally I would not suppress any air rifle uless it was a pre-charged model (3000 psi) and then it would be with a registered silencer.
Ranb
Re: Exit hole on .22 can?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Griffin Armament</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
That kind of stuff will work on one gun specifically built to work with it and even then you might easily have endcap strikes at some point- definitely if the can ever broke loose at the thread for even one round.
In retail sale, you'd have most of them coming back with shot up front caps, some with shot up baffles. The reputation would hit the garbage in short order.
.260 is probably a good threshold for a safe bore on a thread mount that will be going on properly threaded barrels. </div></div>
That is the nice thing about being able to roll your own, you don't have to have it like Micky-D's, or off the shelf. Nor do others, once they are up to speed. </div></div>
Good luck with that .24" exit aperture in the long term. The drop in 5" is aproximately .002" at 900 FPS. that's 1/4 of your one side bore tolerance if the aperture is aligned perfectly. If the pistol groups 0.5" at 25 yards that's another .003" of random deviation inside 5", eating another .0015 so now you've removed almost half of your theoretically perfect condition one side bore tolerance leaving .0045"- or slightly less than the thickness of two sheets of paper for minimum clearance with theoretically perfect alignment.
It's just not an intelligent design feature when you consider squib rounds, bullet yaw, or other potential issues like machining accuracy for which .003" at 6" would be considered pretty good perpendicularity.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Of course you can make a new cap if you damage one, but contact with the existing cap, could cause dramatic bullet deviation from the intended flight path that could potentially be hazardous. </span>
I really doubt most guys have the machining skill to hold the kind of tolerances that will make that possible- even in the short term.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Griffin Armament</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
That kind of stuff will work on one gun specifically built to work with it and even then you might easily have endcap strikes at some point- definitely if the can ever broke loose at the thread for even one round.
In retail sale, you'd have most of them coming back with shot up front caps, some with shot up baffles. The reputation would hit the garbage in short order.
.260 is probably a good threshold for a safe bore on a thread mount that will be going on properly threaded barrels. </div></div>
That is the nice thing about being able to roll your own, you don't have to have it like Micky-D's, or off the shelf. Nor do others, once they are up to speed. </div></div>
Good luck with that .24" exit aperture in the long term. The drop in 5" is aproximately .002" at 900 FPS. that's 1/4 of your one side bore tolerance if the aperture is aligned perfectly. If the pistol groups 0.5" at 25 yards that's another .003" of random deviation inside 5", eating another .0015 so now you've removed almost half of your theoretically perfect condition one side bore tolerance leaving .0045"- or slightly less than the thickness of two sheets of paper for minimum clearance with theoretically perfect alignment.
It's just not an intelligent design feature when you consider squib rounds, bullet yaw, or other potential issues like machining accuracy for which .003" at 6" would be considered pretty good perpendicularity.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Of course you can make a new cap if you damage one, but contact with the existing cap, could cause dramatic bullet deviation from the intended flight path that could potentially be hazardous. </span>
I really doubt most guys have the machining skill to hold the kind of tolerances that will make that possible- even in the short term.
Re: Exit hole on .22 can?
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-firearms.html#paintball-airgun-suppressers
Q: Are Paintball and/or Airgun Sound Suppressers NFA firearms?
The terms “firearm silencer” and “firearm muffler” mean any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.
Numerous paintball and airgun silencers tested by ATF’s Firearms Technology Branch have been determined to be, by nature of their design and function, firearm silencers. Because silencers are NFA weapons, an individual wishing to manufacture or transfer such a silencer must receive prior approval from ATF and pay the required tax. See also “What are the required transfer procedures for an individual who is not qualified as a manufacturer, importer, or dealer of NFA firearms?” and “How does an individual obtain authorization to make an NFA firearm?” for application details.
If you have any further questions as to the classification of a paintball or airgun silencer, please send a written request to ATF’s Firearms Technology Branch.
[18 U.S.C. 921(a)(24), 26 U.S.C. 5845(a), 27 CFR 479.11]
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-firearms.html#paintball-airgun-suppressers
Q: Are Paintball and/or Airgun Sound Suppressers NFA firearms?
The terms “firearm silencer” and “firearm muffler” mean any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.
Numerous paintball and airgun silencers tested by ATF’s Firearms Technology Branch have been determined to be, by nature of their design and function, firearm silencers. Because silencers are NFA weapons, an individual wishing to manufacture or transfer such a silencer must receive prior approval from ATF and pay the required tax. See also “What are the required transfer procedures for an individual who is not qualified as a manufacturer, importer, or dealer of NFA firearms?” and “How does an individual obtain authorization to make an NFA firearm?” for application details.
If you have any further questions as to the classification of a paintball or airgun silencer, please send a written request to ATF’s Firearms Technology Branch.
[18 U.S.C. 921(a)(24), 26 U.S.C. 5845(a), 27 CFR 479.11]
Re: Exit hole on .22 can?
That sounds about like what I understood. Note it's pretty easy to find mainstream manufacturers of airguns selling suppressed airguns (with no tax stamp):
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Gamo-Whisper-Classic-177-Cal-Air-Rifle/1089622.uts?
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Stoeger_Arms_X20S_Suppressor_Air_Rifle/2406
plus air rifles with shrouded barrels configured to reduce sound:
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Air_Arms_TX200_MkIII_air_rifle/174
Note Pyramyd Air has a nice article on the subject themselves, which lays out the rules with all due murkiness:
http://www.pyramydair.com/article/Airgun_silencers_What_s_the_big_deal_August_2006/32
That sounds about like what I understood. Note it's pretty easy to find mainstream manufacturers of airguns selling suppressed airguns (with no tax stamp):
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Gamo-Whisper-Classic-177-Cal-Air-Rifle/1089622.uts?
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Stoeger_Arms_X20S_Suppressor_Air_Rifle/2406
plus air rifles with shrouded barrels configured to reduce sound:
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Air_Arms_TX200_MkIII_air_rifle/174
Note Pyramyd Air has a nice article on the subject themselves, which lays out the rules with all due murkiness:
http://www.pyramydair.com/article/Airgun_silencers_What_s_the_big_deal_August_2006/32
G
Guest
Guest
Re: Exit hole on .22 can?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Griffin Armament</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's just not an intelligent design feature when you consider squib rounds, bullet yaw, or other potential issues like machining accuracy for which .003" at 6" would be considered pretty good perpendicularity. </div></div>
Can designs an usage, are similar to race cars an the different type of tracks they run on. I would never try to win a NASCAR race using anything set up for NHRA but, that is just, me. Then again, a mini-van drove by grandma would get down or around either track, as well. But even here the mfg voids the warranty, as soon as the tires hit the starting line an the light turns green, or the flag drops.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Griffin Armament</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's just not an intelligent design feature when you consider squib rounds, bullet yaw, or other potential issues like machining accuracy for which .003" at 6" would be considered pretty good perpendicularity. </div></div>
Can designs an usage, are similar to race cars an the different type of tracks they run on. I would never try to win a NASCAR race using anything set up for NHRA but, that is just, me. Then again, a mini-van drove by grandma would get down or around either track, as well. But even here the mfg voids the warranty, as soon as the tires hit the starting line an the light turns green, or the flag drops.
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