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"Fast" 30 cal. barrels?

kombayotch

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Sep 20, 2007
1,887
85
What brands and types of rifling supposedly give higher velocities again? Broughton 5C is supposed to be one... others?

Any input form builders or others who see a lot of different barrels would be appreciated.
 
Re: "Fast" 30 cal. barrels?

There is supposed to be some type of ratchet twist thing out there to speed up a barrel, and also Lawton is making a 3-groove that is supposed to be giving some increased velocities
 
Re: "Fast" 30 cal. barrels?

What length are you running? 26" if I recall correctly?


Just looked up my data for two different lots of 168 FGMM., they were was 2780 and 2800 fps out of my 26" Schneider 5P 1-11". Different lots, environmental conditions and chronos though... Chrono was a CED Millenium with IR.
 
Re: "Fast" 30 cal. barrels?

Had a 22" rock barreled 308 that would run 155's at 2925 with varget and 185 berger's at 2715 with R15.
 
Re: "Fast" 30 cal. barrels?

I've a 22" Pac-Nor that runs, same, same, as my last 26" Rock. Both went/go to 1K at HardRock in 34.5 MOA w/a 175smk, an 45 grs of Varget.
 
Re: "Fast" 30 cal. barrels?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rock's are fast as hell... </div></div>



x 2
 
Re: "Fast" 30 cal. barrels?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kombayotch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What length are you running? 26" if I recall correctly?
</div></div>

Its right around 26, about 25.5 from boltface.
 
Re: "Fast" 30 cal. barrels?

I've got a 26" 10 twist Krieger running 175 SMK's @ 2840 with 44 grains of Varget, Lapua brass, WLR primers.
 
Re: "Fast" 30 cal. barrels?

It has been my experience that any of the custom barrels are way faster than the average factory production barrel.

Until I stopped taking customer spec parts in about 2 years ago, I had the opportunity to put on a lot of Rocks, Broughtons, Obermeyers, Bartleins, Schneiders and of course Kriegers.

I have always read where X brand 5-R barrel is way faster than a normal barrel.

What I have been seeing over the years is that just about any of the above barrels with just about any of their bore profiles are faster than the typical factory barrel.

5-R is no faster, accurate or longer lasting than conventional bore profiles on other custom barrel blanks. Looks better on paper and theory but we haven't seen the difference.

Typical 26" R700 PSS barrels are running GM308M around 2600. Typical 24" Kriegers are running the same load at or over 2700. Several 24" Kriegers are running 43.3Varget/175MK loads over 2700.

My own 308 is a 18.75" Krieger and runs the 168 GM factory at 2600 fps. No tight bore, no magic. Just fast compared to factory barrels. . . just like most other custom tubes.

I know sometimes you will see a freak barrel that is way fast or even way slow for no reason, but looking over a large sample of barrels, has anyone observed different that what I have?

TC
 
Re: "Fast" 30 cal. barrels?

Terry, I have noticed the same thing in a few of the 308 rifles I've done. The same exact load (same brass, same powder charge, 175 VLD bullet, same primer) has varied 125 fps from factory rifles to the custom rifles. The factory rifles running slower than the custom. I thought it was very strange that there was this much velocity difference, and was puzzled about it. So, it's good to know it's not just me noticing this!
 
Re: "Fast" 30 cal. barrels?

i spent some time on a private range with a fellow Hide member that is published....he can tell after shooting a NEW barrel, just by looking at the vertical groupings at say 1000yd weather the barrel is fast or slow or.....just average.....we were not using a chronograph.
 
Re: "Fast" 30 cal. barrels?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kombayotch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What brands and types of rifling supposedly give higher velocities again? Broughton 5C is supposed to be one... others?

Any input form builders or others who see a lot of different barrels would be appreciated. </div></div>

I've instaleld several different makers barrels to include Rock, Shilen, Hart, Brux, Krieger, Bartlien and Lilja. I've personally owned 3 of the ones listed and can tell you this, not a single one stands out in the way of superior velocity. My primary barrel of choice is Krieger with Bartlien being my second choice. Everyone I've owned/installed has been exactly where I thought they should have been with respect to velocity and accuracy.

Dont choose your barrel by the one you think is going to be the fastest. Choose a top of the line barrel maker with a twist to match your bullet and a chamber/throat to match your seating depth and you'll be fine. Accuracy first, velocity second, the rest will follow.
 
Re: "Fast" 30 cal. barrels?

Terry,

I think its a given that custom barrels perform better than factory barrels. My question was really directed at the differences between custom barrels. Have you noticed any one in particular that stands as usually being faster than the others? How about that Broughton 5C?
 
Re: "Fast" 30 cal. barrels?

Is there any truth to support the theory that tighter barrels run faster?
 
Re: "Fast" 30 cal. barrels?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Dont choose your barrel by the one you think is going to be the fastest. Choose a top of the line barrel maker with a twist to match your bullet and a chamber/throat to match your seating depth and you'll be fine. Accuracy first, velocity second, the rest will follow. </div></div>

Any of the top custom barrels is going to provide great accuracy. Choosing a proper chamber/throat and twist is a given. So accuracy is covered as far as I'm concerned.

So, lets talk about velocity...
 
Re: "Fast" 30 cal. barrels?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kombayotch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Terry,
My question was really directed at the differences between custom barrels. Have you noticed any one in particular that stands as usually being faster than the others? How about that Broughton 5C?</div></div>

Sorry. My bad.

From what I've seen, No. I have installed several Broughton 5Cs supplied by customers. They are very good but no faster or more accurate than the other top 5 makers. Using equal loads, chambers and lengths they are all in a dead heat in my opinion.
 
Re: "Fast" 30 cal. barrels?

I kind of suspected as much... but, its hard to judge from data people's posted results since they have different chambers, different lots of components and are shooting them through different chronographs in different climates... which is why I asked for input from builders.

Thanks!

 
Re: "Fast" 30 cal. barrels?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is there any truth to support the theory that tighter barrels run faster?</div></div>

Again, in my opinion, No.

There have been some pretty snappy velocities reported out of some short .308s with tight bores. I don't think it was because they were "tight bores". I think they were just very, very good barrels. See my above comment about my own 18.75" with .300/.308 land to groove ratio. It is right on top of the velocities out of the tight bore shorties.

From another direction. . . . . .
I have put on a bunch of Obermeyers and a few Kriegers with .298/.308 land to groove ratios. I think those would qualify as a tight bore. Equal lenght barrels and loads run almost perfectly parrallel with the standard bore Kriegers and Rocks. My buddy has a 24" Obermeyer .298/.308 on a duty rifle. Another has a 24" Krieger .300/.308 on his duty rifle. Both rifles average 2710 fps with GM308M out of the same lot.

Again, I don't have enough samples to be statistically sound from a scientific point but the above is what is guiding my opinions and gun building.

If you are looking hard at the Broughton 5C, jump in. It will be a great barrel but nothing over any others. I have several guns on the street with their tubes and they are top notch.
 
Re: "Fast" 30 cal. barrels?

The increased velocity was the only reason I was looking at the Broughton 5C. If it holds no advantage, I will probably either go Bartlein, Kreiger or Rock.
 
Re: "Fast" 30 cal. barrels?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kombayotch</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> So, lets talk about velocity... </div></div>

Every barrel has its own personality if you will. Bore and groove diameters will vary ever so slightly as will reamers and chambering techniques. Different lots of powders and primers also add to the equation as does the ambient air temps.

Velocity is a direct product of pressure and the above mentioned variables. No one can say barrels by maker "A" are faster than barrels by maker "B". I've always found that if my velocities were slower than I expected, I needed to change powder and or primers.

An example of this is my 7/300 wsm with a Krieger barrel. With 62.0 grains of H4831, WLR primers and the 180 Bergers, accuracy was great, in the low .3's but, velocity was in the mid 2,700 fps range. When I increased the powder charge, the pressure was too high. The velocity was too slow so I changed to 67.0 grains of RL-25. The velocity jumped to 2,875-2,900 with accuracy in the high .2's. I changed yet again to 69.0 grains of H1000 with the CCIBR2's. Velocity is 2,950 fps and accuracy under .250 moa.

It's more about the ammo and not the barrel when you get to a certain point. For a 30 cal. barrel I'd choose a cut rifled, four groove, .300/.308 and run with it.
 
Re: "Fast" 30 cal. barrels?

Thank you for this topic I am learning something.

Point of reference for others like me trying to understand where their own barrel falls in - 22" Rock, Fed Brass (which I think is good for a couple extra fps), 210 primer, 175 SMK, 43.5 RE15 = 2640 fps

Here is another question - I can feel variance in the bore as I am cleaning / tighter spots verses less tight - is this common to barrels of this type and does it have an impact on velocity one way or another?


TIA


Good luck
 
Re: "Fast" 30 cal. barrels?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is another question - I can feel variance in the bore as I am cleaning / tighter spots verses less tight - is this common to barrels of this type and does it have an impact on velocity one way or another?</div></div>

Who is the manufacturer of the barrel? I only ask to see if it is a button or cut barrel. My guess is it's a button barrel.
 
Re: "Fast" 30 cal. barrels?

I have a Bartlein that is a little slow, but I don't think it's indicative of Bartlein's barrels, I think I just got a slow one. Accuracy wise it shoots amazing, so while I'm a little bummed over it being slow, I'm gonna hand load it a little hotter and see if I can get it back up to where it needs to be without getting the pressure up to much.
 
Re: "Fast" 30 cal. barrels?

Terry, William, thanks a lot for the great info
smile.gif


May I ask what are the velocity increase per inch that you see in 308, 300 WSM, 300 WM?

In each case, below what barrel lenght velocity starts to erode faster, and above what lenght gains are very small? Does this depends on the loads (powder and bullets) used?
 
Re: "Fast" 30 cal. barrels?

My 28" .260 barrel produces roughly 120fps more for a given bullet and charge than published velocities in 24" barrels.
 
Re: "Fast" 30 cal. barrels?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's more about the ammo and not the barrel when you get to a certain point. </div></div>

Amen on that one!
 
Re: "Fast" 30 cal. barrels?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My 28" .260 barrel produces roughly 120fps more for a given bullet and charge than published velocities in 24" barrels. </div></div>

Has anyone also seen velocities increase from a new barrel to 300-400 rounds down the tube? I gained about 130 fps from when my 260 barrel was brand new to now, about 800 rounds later.
 
Re: "Fast" 30 cal. barrels?

Just because you have more "drag" in certain areas of your barrel w/ your patch doesn't neccesarily mean you have bore diameter variances; does it?
 
Re: "Fast" 30 cal. barrels?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is there any truth to support the theory that tighter barrels run faster? </div></div>

I've been talking to Bartlein and was told that the tighter bores don't really do much, but that the tighter groves (0.3065 vs. 0.308) definitely do increase velocity (along with pressure). Makes sense.

Since I don't see much, if anything, that really distinguishes any of the top barrel makers from the other, I may give this a try in a 22" barrel just to try something different. I hate conforming to the crowd...
 
Re: "Fast" 30 cal. barrels?

Do you have any observations about the Schneider P5 or Lilja 3-groove or same observation as other top barrel mfg.
 
Re: "Fast" 30 cal. barrels?

My Lilja is a .22LR, not a 308. My 26" P5 seems to be faster than anyone else's 308 that I know, even longer ones. This is based on numbers for the same chrono that belongs to the range. That is only one sample though.

I did compile some data people posted in the forums. There are so many variable (differences in chronographs, chambers, component lots, environment, etc...) that its probably meaningless, but was I bored at work, so... meh! Here's that data if anyones interested:

--------------------------------------------------------------
Obermeyer 1-11" 24" 175 SMK 42.6 RL15 Lapua 2670

Rock ? 22" 175 SMK 43.5 RL15 FGMM 2640
Kreiger 1-11" 24" 175 SMK 43.2 RL15 Lapua 2653
Rock 1-11.27" 24" 175 SMK 43.5 RL15 Lapua 2720
Rock 1-11.27" 22" 175 SMK 43.5 RL15 Lapua 2725
Shilen 1-12" 26" 175 SMK 43.3 RL15 Win 2740
Schneider 1-11" 20" 175 SMK 43.5 RL15 FGMM 2750

Schneider 1-11" 26" 175 SMK 43 Varget Lapua 2660
Schneider 1-12" 25" 175 SMK 43.5 Varget BHM 2670
Obermeyer 1-11" 24" 175 SMK 43.4 Varget Lapua 2709
Kreiger 1-11" 25" 175 SMK 43.7 Varget BHM 2710

Kreiger ? 24" 175 SMK 44.9 Varget BHM 2693
Douglas ? 26" 175 SMK 44.5 Varget ? 2694
Broughton 1-10" 22" 175 SMK 44.6 Varget Lapua 2700
Bartlein ? 25" 175 SMK 44.4 Varget Lapua 2777
Kreiger 1-10" 26" 175 SMK 44 Varget Lapua 2840
Rock ? 25.5" 175 SMK 44.5 Varget Lapua 2885

Bartlein ? 23" 155 Scenar 44 RL15 RA60 2850
Bartlein 1-11.25" 22" 155 Scenar 45.9 RL15 Lapua 2940
Rock 1-11.27" 22" 155 Scenar 44.5 RL15 Lapua 2950

Bartlein ? 24" 155 Scenar 45.5 Varget ? 2830
Obermeyer 1-11.25" 22" 155 Scenar 45 Varget ? 2861
Rock 1-11.27" 25" 155 Scenar 45.8 Varget Lapua 2910
Rock 1-11.27" 24" 155 Scenar 45.5 Varget Lapua 2940
Broughton ? 22" 155 Scenar 45.5 Varget Win 2950

Bartlein 1-11.25" 22" 155 Scenar 46.7 Varget Lapua 2866
Bartlein 1-11" 24" 155 Scenar 46 Varget Lapua 2870
Kreiger ? 24" 155 Scenar 46.2 Varget Lapua 2875
Rock 1-11.27" 26" 155 Scenar 46 Varget ? 2900
Bartlein ? 24" 155 Scenar 46 Varget Lapua 2910
Schneider 1-11" 26" 155 Scenar 46 Varget Lapua 2935
Shilen 1-10" 25.5" 155 Scenar 46.1 Varget Lapua 2936
Broughton ? 26" 155 Scenar 46.2 Varget Lapua 2950

Hart 1-10" 26" 190 SMK 47.2 N550 Norma 2735
Schneider 1-11" 26" 190 SMK 47 N550 Hornady 2746

Schneider ? 20" 168 FGMM 2610
Bartlein ? 22" 168 FGMM 2650
Rock 1-10" 25.5" 168 FGMM 2726
Schneider 1-11" 26" 168 FGMM 2780