Hunting & Fishing Favorite hunting bullet?
- Thread starter CarbonOne
- Start date
Re: Favorite hunting bullet?
I've killed deer with all kinds of bullets. I am currently using Berger VLD's. in my .308, but a Barnes TSX is hard to beat IMHO.
I've killed deer with all kinds of bullets. I am currently using Berger VLD's. in my .308, but a Barnes TSX is hard to beat IMHO.
Re: Favorite hunting bullet?
I used to use the Accubonds. They're a fine bullet but i switched to Bergers and have not looked back.
I used to use the Accubonds. They're a fine bullet but i switched to Bergers and have not looked back.
Re: Favorite hunting bullet?
Hornaday Interlocks have killed plenty of deer and antelope for me, the 150 .308's and 100 .257's I like 'em because they're cheap. I've also used the SST's and they worked great too, 180's in the .308 and 117 in the .257. I also have used the 175 and 190 match king (.308) quite a bit on antelope deer and Elk, they have also worked fantastic. the benefit of all these bullets is that they are all pretty cheap( compared to Bergers, TSX'x, and all those others) and they all have performed perfectly. With the added benefit of being my everyday bullet. Bottom line is, a hole in the right spot works every time. Whether its a boat tailed trophy bonded accuslayer with tungsten, polymer and a gyroscope guidance system, or just a lead ball.
Hornaday Interlocks have killed plenty of deer and antelope for me, the 150 .308's and 100 .257's I like 'em because they're cheap. I've also used the SST's and they worked great too, 180's in the .308 and 117 in the .257. I also have used the 175 and 190 match king (.308) quite a bit on antelope deer and Elk, they have also worked fantastic. the benefit of all these bullets is that they are all pretty cheap( compared to Bergers, TSX'x, and all those others) and they all have performed perfectly. With the added benefit of being my everyday bullet. Bottom line is, a hole in the right spot works every time. Whether its a boat tailed trophy bonded accuslayer with tungsten, polymer and a gyroscope guidance system, or just a lead ball.
Re: Favorite hunting bullet?
Amax/Bergers
Amax/Bergers
Re: Favorite hunting bullet?
When shooting game that will meet the meat grinder, I like the Hornday GMX in-case some of the bullet doesn't get recovered and gets eaten by the family/friends.
When shooting game that will meet the meat grinder, I like the Hornday GMX in-case some of the bullet doesn't get recovered and gets eaten by the family/friends.
Re: Favorite hunting bullet?
amax here gunna try the berger this fall
amax here gunna try the berger this fall
Re: Favorite hunting bullet?
178 AMax this year
178 AMax this year
Re: Favorite hunting bullet?
T-TSX for deer sized and bigger and Scenars for the smaller critters.
T-TSX for deer sized and bigger and Scenars for the smaller critters.
Re: Favorite hunting bullet?
Deer and Hog I use Horaday 150gr SST in my 308. They turn the insides to mush... I have also used the SST 154 gr in 7mm RM.
with good results.
Thank you,
George of the jungle
Deer and Hog I use Horaday 150gr SST in my 308. They turn the insides to mush... I have also used the SST 154 gr in 7mm RM.
with good results.
Thank you,
George of the jungle
Re: Favorite hunting bullet?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CarbonOne</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have to wonder how much difference there really is between the SMK and Berger VLD? </div></div>
BC ive shot deer and such with both and the results were very similar, the vld just has better chart in the ballistic software. fyi the bergers like to touch the lands, ive found the smk's are a little more forgiving as far as jumping to the lands goes.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CarbonOne</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have to wonder how much difference there really is between the SMK and Berger VLD? </div></div>
BC ive shot deer and such with both and the results were very similar, the vld just has better chart in the ballistic software. fyi the bergers like to touch the lands, ive found the smk's are a little more forgiving as far as jumping to the lands goes.
Re: Favorite hunting bullet?
Barns & Swift.
I'm sure an Amax or two will land in some meat this fall by chance.
Barns & Swift.
I'm sure an Amax or two will land in some meat this fall by chance.
Re: Favorite hunting bullet?
amax 178 so far, great soft tissue damage on woodchucks, looking forward to putting some through some deer this summer when the permits come in.
amax 178 so far, great soft tissue damage on woodchucks, looking forward to putting some through some deer this summer when the permits come in.
Re: Favorite hunting bullet?
In my rifle I have had good results with berger vld's but I may be trying lapua scenar's this fall. When Im hunting at home (no centerfire rifle zone)I use handguns and/or muzzleloader w/sabot with hornday xtp's
In my rifle I have had good results with berger vld's but I may be trying lapua scenar's this fall. When Im hunting at home (no centerfire rifle zone)I use handguns and/or muzzleloader w/sabot with hornday xtp's
Re: Favorite hunting bullet?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CarbonOne</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How long till one of the bullet companies comes out with a bonded bullet with BCs as high as the "target" bullets??? I bet they're working on it. </div></div>
200 grain Accubond- .588
180 grain Accubond .507
For comparision:
Sierra 175 grain Matchking and Nosler Custom Comp- .505
Hornady 178 grain AMAX- .495
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CarbonOne</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How long till one of the bullet companies comes out with a bonded bullet with BCs as high as the "target" bullets??? I bet they're working on it. </div></div>
200 grain Accubond- .588
180 grain Accubond .507
For comparision:
Sierra 175 grain Matchking and Nosler Custom Comp- .505
Hornady 178 grain AMAX- .495
Re: Favorite hunting bullet?
SMK/SGK cheap and effective for handloads. Hornady loaded ammo(7 mag) SST or 300 RUM throwing a swift scirroco 150/180.
Scot
SMK/SGK cheap and effective for handloads. Hornady loaded ammo(7 mag) SST or 300 RUM throwing a swift scirroco 150/180.
Scot
Re: Favorite hunting bullet?
This 20ga saboted slug is credited with 1MOA accuracy to 150yd, 3 1/2" accuracy at 200yd, a 6" MPBR at 165yd, and through and through penetration on a medium doe at 150yd using the new Savage 220F Bolt Action 20ga repeater rifle.
Greg
This 20ga saboted slug is credited with 1MOA accuracy to 150yd, 3 1/2" accuracy at 200yd, a 6" MPBR at 165yd, and through and through penetration on a medium doe at 150yd using the new Savage 220F Bolt Action 20ga repeater rifle.
Greg
Re: Favorite hunting bullet?
Hornady #3085 BTSP,B.C.:0.491, for .300 WM has been my. farorite
Hornady #3085 BTSP,B.C.:0.491, for .300 WM has been my. farorite
Re: Favorite hunting bullet?
hornady sst for deer or bigger, vmax for everything else.
target - hornady amax
see a pattern?
if i HAD to choose anything else, barnes x bullet.
hornady sst for deer or bigger, vmax for everything else.
target - hornady amax
see a pattern?
if i HAD to choose anything else, barnes x bullet.
Re: Favorite hunting bullet?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CarbonOne</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How are the scenars for hunting? </div></div>
Alot of people like them and use them for bigger game and have great succecss. Personally I use them for smaller game such as coyotes and ground squirels and whatnot simply because my experience with them has been that they fragment I have killed two coyotes and have had not exit wounds. I figure if there are bullets that are designed specifically for bigger game that give close to the same BC why not use them? Barnes .308 168 gr. TTSX has a BC of .470 and groups consistently at .5 MOA out to 300 yards in my rifle. That is more than adequate for everything up to elk as far as I'm concerned.
If I have a trophy of a lifetime in my sights do I want to take a chance on a bullet fragmenting and not penetrating into the vitals or breaking up on heavy bone, or going with something I know is proven and was desined for hunting? You have to make that call. Many people are perfectly comfortable hunting with target bullets like the scenars and SMKs and have been very successful and will swear by them. I just wouldn't chance it when there are bullets that fly just as well and perform better on game.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CarbonOne</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How are the scenars for hunting? </div></div>
Alot of people like them and use them for bigger game and have great succecss. Personally I use them for smaller game such as coyotes and ground squirels and whatnot simply because my experience with them has been that they fragment I have killed two coyotes and have had not exit wounds. I figure if there are bullets that are designed specifically for bigger game that give close to the same BC why not use them? Barnes .308 168 gr. TTSX has a BC of .470 and groups consistently at .5 MOA out to 300 yards in my rifle. That is more than adequate for everything up to elk as far as I'm concerned.
If I have a trophy of a lifetime in my sights do I want to take a chance on a bullet fragmenting and not penetrating into the vitals or breaking up on heavy bone, or going with something I know is proven and was desined for hunting? You have to make that call. Many people are perfectly comfortable hunting with target bullets like the scenars and SMKs and have been very successful and will swear by them. I just wouldn't chance it when there are bullets that fly just as well and perform better on game.
Re: Favorite hunting bullet?
Barnes except in my .308 i use Gamekings.
Barnes except in my .308 i use Gamekings.
Re: Favorite hunting bullet?
I have really had good luck with 168gr Berger hunting VLD's with my 300wsm and 308. Will be trying some 95gr versions with my GAP 243 when it is done.
I have really had good luck with 168gr Berger hunting VLD's with my 300wsm and 308. Will be trying some 95gr versions with my GAP 243 when it is done.
Re: Favorite hunting bullet?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CarbonOne</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How are the scenars for hunting? </div></div>
IMO, they are on par with VLD's.....have killed a bunch of big game with them.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CarbonOne</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How are the scenars for hunting? </div></div>
IMO, they are on par with VLD's.....have killed a bunch of big game with them.
Re: Favorite hunting bullet?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CarbonOne</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone shoot an elk with a Berger under 200 yards? How'd it hold up? It seems like where we hunt the shots are either under 100 yards in the thick stuff or over 300 yards across the canyons. </div></div>
http://www.bergerbullets.com/Information/Barsness%20Article.pdf
Here is a good review of how the Berger's performed in this article. Alot of feral goats were shot. Also, red stag (although not American elk) are similar in size and were taken in this article.
Hope that helps.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CarbonOne</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone shoot an elk with a Berger under 200 yards? How'd it hold up? It seems like where we hunt the shots are either under 100 yards in the thick stuff or over 300 yards across the canyons. </div></div>
http://www.bergerbullets.com/Information/Barsness%20Article.pdf
Here is a good review of how the Berger's performed in this article. Alot of feral goats were shot. Also, red stag (although not American elk) are similar in size and were taken in this article.
Hope that helps.
Re: Favorite hunting bullet?
Depends on which gun I decide to shoot that day but mostly Accubond for deer and Vmax for the varmints.
Depends on which gun I decide to shoot that day but mostly Accubond for deer and Vmax for the varmints.
Re: Favorite hunting bullet?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CarbonOne</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How long till one of the bullet companies comes out with a bonded bullet with BCs as high as the "target" bullets??? I bet they're working on it. </div></div>
Like the 130grs .264 Swift Scirocco II with a BC of .571?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CarbonOne</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How long till one of the bullet companies comes out with a bonded bullet with BCs as high as the "target" bullets??? I bet they're working on it. </div></div>
Like the 130grs .264 Swift Scirocco II with a BC of .571?
Re: Favorite hunting bullet?
300 RUM Scirroco 150gr.
300 RUM Scirroco 150gr.
Re: Favorite hunting bullet?
BC ive shot deer and such with both and the results were very similar, the vld just has better chart in the ballistic software. fyi the bergers like to touch the lands, ive found the smk's are a little more forgiving as far as jumping to the lands goes. [/quote]
That is not always true I am jumping .088 out of my 308 and the Berger’s (185s) shoot better jumped then jammed. I read about it on here called BS tried it and it worked. FWIW
BC ive shot deer and such with both and the results were very similar, the vld just has better chart in the ballistic software. fyi the bergers like to touch the lands, ive found the smk's are a little more forgiving as far as jumping to the lands goes. [/quote]
That is not always true I am jumping .088 out of my 308 and the Berger’s (185s) shoot better jumped then jammed. I read about it on here called BS tried it and it worked. FWIW
Re: Favorite hunting bullet?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone shoot an elk with a Berger under 200 yards?</div></div> Yes, 2 cows and a bull with 168 VLDs out of a 7mm Rem Mag. Switched back to Accubond.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone shoot an elk with a Berger under 200 yards?</div></div> Yes, 2 cows and a bull with 168 VLDs out of a 7mm Rem Mag. Switched back to Accubond.
Re: Favorite hunting bullet?
Sounds like they didn't hold up at close range or what?
I'm having a tough time with them not fitting in my magazine-they won't feed very good. I'll shorten up a bit and try again. If that doesn't work I'll load up a bunch to ring steel or sell them if anyone needs some 140gr hunting vlds.
Sounds like they didn't hold up at close range or what?
I'm having a tough time with them not fitting in my magazine-they won't feed very good. I'll shorten up a bit and try again. If that doesn't work I'll load up a bunch to ring steel or sell them if anyone needs some 140gr hunting vlds.
Re: Favorite hunting bullet?
The best one i have found for short range and up to 400 yard performance is the barnes tsx i am trying some other stuff in my 300 wm right now but 270 gr tsx in my 375 h&h is my go to round for every thing bigger than a yote.
The best one i have found for short range and up to 400 yard performance is the barnes tsx i am trying some other stuff in my 300 wm right now but 270 gr tsx in my 375 h&h is my go to round for every thing bigger than a yote.
Re: Favorite hunting bullet?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CarbonOne</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sounds like they didn't hold up at close range or what?
I'm having a tough time with them not fitting in my magazine-they won't feed very good. I'll shorten up a bit and try again. If that doesn't work I'll load up a bunch to ring steel or sell them if anyone needs some 140gr hunting vlds. </div></div>
I tried loading the VLDs for my .25-06 and had trouble with groups. I then took Berger's advise and loaded 10 at the lands, 10 0.040 off the lands, 10 0.080 off the lands, and 10 0.120 off the lands and proceded to shoot 10 shot groups at 300 yards.. The load of 0.120 off the lands easily shot the best. It shoots knots now at that seating depth. My load is an easy to magazine load load. I think you may be surprised with some OAL testing.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CarbonOne</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sounds like they didn't hold up at close range or what?
I'm having a tough time with them not fitting in my magazine-they won't feed very good. I'll shorten up a bit and try again. If that doesn't work I'll load up a bunch to ring steel or sell them if anyone needs some 140gr hunting vlds. </div></div>
I tried loading the VLDs for my .25-06 and had trouble with groups. I then took Berger's advise and loaded 10 at the lands, 10 0.040 off the lands, 10 0.080 off the lands, and 10 0.120 off the lands and proceded to shoot 10 shot groups at 300 yards.. The load of 0.120 off the lands easily shot the best. It shoots knots now at that seating depth. My load is an easy to magazine load load. I think you may be surprised with some OAL testing.
Re: Favorite hunting bullet?
Nosler Accubond. They have been extremely accurate for me in the 7mmRM.
Nosler Accubond. They have been extremely accurate for me in the 7mmRM.
Re: Favorite hunting bullet?
Scenars outdig A-Max. Bergers are a distant secondfiddle and SMK's so far back,they can't even see the leader's dust. I'm no AccuBomb fan,but the Scirocco 2's dig nice.
The X trumps all,by quite a margin.
Scenars outdig A-Max. Bergers are a distant secondfiddle and SMK's so far back,they can't even see the leader's dust. I'm no AccuBomb fan,but the Scirocco 2's dig nice.
The X trumps all,by quite a margin.
Re: Favorite hunting bullet?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FreshKills</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Scenars outdig A-Max. Bergers are a distant secondfiddle and SMK's so far back,they can't even see the leader's dust. I'm no AccuBomb fan,but the Scirocco 2's dig nice.
The X trumps all,by quite a margin. </div></div>
+1.....wish Lapua made 7MM stuff..
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FreshKills</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Scenars outdig A-Max. Bergers are a distant secondfiddle and SMK's so far back,they can't even see the leader's dust. I'm no AccuBomb fan,but the Scirocco 2's dig nice.
The X trumps all,by quite a margin. </div></div>
+1.....wish Lapua made 7MM stuff..
Re: Favorite hunting bullet?
I have ran a bunch of 155 Scenars through groundhogs. Most every time they drill a hole straight through and the GH can travel 20 30 yards before going heels up.
But Here is Heart/Lung of a 120 lb whitetail when it was holding the same space in the universe as a lapua @ 2930.
The deer ran about 70 yards
I have ran a bunch of 155 Scenars through groundhogs. Most every time they drill a hole straight through and the GH can travel 20 30 yards before going heels up.
But Here is Heart/Lung of a 120 lb whitetail when it was holding the same space in the universe as a lapua @ 2930.
The deer ran about 70 yards
Re: Favorite hunting bullet?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PGS</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FreshKills</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Scenars outdig A-Max. Bergers are a distant secondfiddle and SMK's so far back,they can't even see the leader's dust. I'm no AccuBomb fan,but the Scirocco 2's dig nice.
The X trumps all,by quite a margin. </div></div>
+1.....wish Lapua made 7MM stuff.. </div></div>
I wish Lapua made 25's and 284's. Wish Hornady made a 25 and 338 A-Max too.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PGS</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FreshKills</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Scenars outdig A-Max. Bergers are a distant secondfiddle and SMK's so far back,they can't even see the leader's dust. I'm no AccuBomb fan,but the Scirocco 2's dig nice.
The X trumps all,by quite a margin. </div></div>
+1.....wish Lapua made 7MM stuff.. </div></div>
I wish Lapua made 25's and 284's. Wish Hornady made a 25 and 338 A-Max too.
Re: Favorite hunting bullet?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kyreloader</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CarbonOne</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sounds like they didn't hold up at close range or what?
I'm having a tough time with them not fitting in my magazine-they won't feed very good. I'll shorten up a bit and try again. If that doesn't work I'll load up a bunch to ring steel or sell them if anyone needs some 140gr hunting vlds. </div></div>
I tried loading the VLDs for my .25-06 and had trouble with groups. I then took Berger's advise and loaded 10 at the lands, 10 0.040 off the lands, 10 0.080 off the lands, and 10 0.120 off the lands and proceded to shoot 10 shot groups at 300 yards.. The load of 0.120 off the lands easily shot the best. It shoots knots now at that seating depth. My load is an easy to magazine load load. I think you may be surprised with some OAL testing. </div></div>
Here is some info I received in an email this morning, from Walt Berger, as I was inquiring about the VLD's....Ended up ordering a couple hundred of the 155's for my 308.
Getting the Best Precision and Accuracy from VLD bullets in Your Rifle
Background
VLD bullets are designed with a secant ogive. This ogive shape allows bullets to be more efficient in flight (retain more velocity = less drop and wind deflection). While this result is desirable for many rifle shooters the secant ogive on the VLD bullets produces another result in many rifle. It can be difficult to get the VLD to group well (poor accuracy).
For years we encouraged shooters to use a base of cartridge to end of bearing surface OAL (I will use the term COAL to represent this dimension) which allows the VLD to touch the rifling or to be jammed in the rifling. This provided excellent results for many shooters but there were others who did not achieve top performance with the VLD jammed in their rifling. These shooters were left with the belief that the VLD bullets just won’t shoot in their rifle.
Other groups of shooters were discouraged by our recommendation to touch the rifling. Some of these shooters knew that at some point during a target competition they will be asked to remove a live round. With the bullet jammed in the rifling there was a good chance the bullet will stick in the barrel which could result in an action full of powder. This is hard on a shooter during a match.
Yet another group of shooters who were discouraged by our recommendation to touch the rifling are those who feed through magazines or have long throats. Magazine length rounds loaded with VLDs could not touch the lands in most rifles (this is the specific reason that for years we said VLD bullets do not work well in a magazine). When a rifle could be single fed but was chambered with a long throat a loaded round that was as long as possible still would not touch the rifling.
Until recently, shooters who suffered from these realities were believed to be unable to achieve success with VLD bullets. Admittedly, we would receive the occasional report that a rifle shot very well when jumping the VLD bullets but we discounted these reports as anomalies. It was not until the VLD became very popular as a game hunting bullet that we were then able to learn the truth about getting the VLD bullets to shoot well in a large majority of rifles.
After we proved that the Berger VLD bullets are consistently and exceptionally capable of putting game down quickly we started promoting the VLD to hunters. We were nervous at first as we believe the VLD needed to be in the rifling to shoot well and we also knew that most hunters use a magazine and SAMMI chambers. Our ears were wide open as the feedback was received. It was surprising to hear that most shooters described precision results by saying “this is the best my rifle has ever shot.”
We scratched our heads about this for awhile until we started getting feedback from hunters who were competition shooters as well. Many were the same guys who were telling us for years that the VLDs shoot great when jumped. Since a much larger number of shooters were using the VLD bullets with a jump we started comparing all the feedback and have discovered the common characteristics in successful reports which gave us the information needed to get VLD working in your rifle. We were able to relay these characteristics to several shooters who were struggling with VLD bullets. Each shooter reported success after applying our recommendation.
Getting the Best Precision and Accuracy from VLD bullets in Your Rifle
Solution
The following has been verified by numerous shooters in many rifles using bullets of different calibers and weights. It is consistent for all VLD bullets. What has been discovered is that VLD bullets shoot best when loaded to a COAL that puts the bullet in a “sweet spot”. This sweet spot is a band .030 to .040 wide and is located anywhere between jamming the bullets into the lands and .150 jump off the lands.
Note: When discussing jam and jump I am referring to the distance from the area of the bearing surface that engages the rifling and the rifling itself. There are many products that allow you to measure these critical dimensions. Some are better than others. I won’t be going into the methods of measuring jam and jump. If you are not familiar with this aspect of reloading it is critically important that you understand this concept before you attempt this test.
Many reloaders feel (and I tend to agree) that meaningful COAL adjustments are .002 to .005. Every once in a while I might adjust the COAL by .010 but this seems like I am moving the bullet the length of a football field. The only way a shooter will be able to benefit from this situation is to let go of this opinion that more than .010 change is too much (me included).
Trying to find the COAL that puts you in the sweet spot by moving .002 to .010 will take so long the barrel may be worn out by the time you sort it out if you don’t give up first. Since the sweet spot is .030 to .040 wide we recommend that you conduct the following test to find your rifles VLD sweet spot.
Load 24 rounds at the following COAL if you are a target competition shooter who does not worry about jamming a bullet:
.010 into (touching) the lands (jam) 6 rounds
.040 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
.080 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
.120 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
Load 24 rounds at the following COAL if you are a hunter (pulling a bullet out of the case with your rifling while in the field can be a hunt ending event which must be avoided) or a competition shooter who worries about pulling a bullet during a match:
.010 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
.050 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
.090 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
.130 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
Shoot 2 (separate) 3 shot groups in fair conditions to see how they group. The remarkable reality of this test is that one of these 4 COALs will outperform the other three by a considerable margin. Once you know which one of these 4 COAL shoots best then you can tweak the COAL towards or away from the lands .002 or .005. Taking the time to set this test up will pay off when you find that your rifle is capable of shooting the VLD bullets very well (even at 100 yards).
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kyreloader</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CarbonOne</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sounds like they didn't hold up at close range or what?
I'm having a tough time with them not fitting in my magazine-they won't feed very good. I'll shorten up a bit and try again. If that doesn't work I'll load up a bunch to ring steel or sell them if anyone needs some 140gr hunting vlds. </div></div>
I tried loading the VLDs for my .25-06 and had trouble with groups. I then took Berger's advise and loaded 10 at the lands, 10 0.040 off the lands, 10 0.080 off the lands, and 10 0.120 off the lands and proceded to shoot 10 shot groups at 300 yards.. The load of 0.120 off the lands easily shot the best. It shoots knots now at that seating depth. My load is an easy to magazine load load. I think you may be surprised with some OAL testing. </div></div>
Here is some info I received in an email this morning, from Walt Berger, as I was inquiring about the VLD's....Ended up ordering a couple hundred of the 155's for my 308.
Getting the Best Precision and Accuracy from VLD bullets in Your Rifle
Background
VLD bullets are designed with a secant ogive. This ogive shape allows bullets to be more efficient in flight (retain more velocity = less drop and wind deflection). While this result is desirable for many rifle shooters the secant ogive on the VLD bullets produces another result in many rifle. It can be difficult to get the VLD to group well (poor accuracy).
For years we encouraged shooters to use a base of cartridge to end of bearing surface OAL (I will use the term COAL to represent this dimension) which allows the VLD to touch the rifling or to be jammed in the rifling. This provided excellent results for many shooters but there were others who did not achieve top performance with the VLD jammed in their rifling. These shooters were left with the belief that the VLD bullets just won’t shoot in their rifle.
Other groups of shooters were discouraged by our recommendation to touch the rifling. Some of these shooters knew that at some point during a target competition they will be asked to remove a live round. With the bullet jammed in the rifling there was a good chance the bullet will stick in the barrel which could result in an action full of powder. This is hard on a shooter during a match.
Yet another group of shooters who were discouraged by our recommendation to touch the rifling are those who feed through magazines or have long throats. Magazine length rounds loaded with VLDs could not touch the lands in most rifles (this is the specific reason that for years we said VLD bullets do not work well in a magazine). When a rifle could be single fed but was chambered with a long throat a loaded round that was as long as possible still would not touch the rifling.
Until recently, shooters who suffered from these realities were believed to be unable to achieve success with VLD bullets. Admittedly, we would receive the occasional report that a rifle shot very well when jumping the VLD bullets but we discounted these reports as anomalies. It was not until the VLD became very popular as a game hunting bullet that we were then able to learn the truth about getting the VLD bullets to shoot well in a large majority of rifles.
After we proved that the Berger VLD bullets are consistently and exceptionally capable of putting game down quickly we started promoting the VLD to hunters. We were nervous at first as we believe the VLD needed to be in the rifling to shoot well and we also knew that most hunters use a magazine and SAMMI chambers. Our ears were wide open as the feedback was received. It was surprising to hear that most shooters described precision results by saying “this is the best my rifle has ever shot.”
We scratched our heads about this for awhile until we started getting feedback from hunters who were competition shooters as well. Many were the same guys who were telling us for years that the VLDs shoot great when jumped. Since a much larger number of shooters were using the VLD bullets with a jump we started comparing all the feedback and have discovered the common characteristics in successful reports which gave us the information needed to get VLD working in your rifle. We were able to relay these characteristics to several shooters who were struggling with VLD bullets. Each shooter reported success after applying our recommendation.
Getting the Best Precision and Accuracy from VLD bullets in Your Rifle
Solution
The following has been verified by numerous shooters in many rifles using bullets of different calibers and weights. It is consistent for all VLD bullets. What has been discovered is that VLD bullets shoot best when loaded to a COAL that puts the bullet in a “sweet spot”. This sweet spot is a band .030 to .040 wide and is located anywhere between jamming the bullets into the lands and .150 jump off the lands.
Note: When discussing jam and jump I am referring to the distance from the area of the bearing surface that engages the rifling and the rifling itself. There are many products that allow you to measure these critical dimensions. Some are better than others. I won’t be going into the methods of measuring jam and jump. If you are not familiar with this aspect of reloading it is critically important that you understand this concept before you attempt this test.
Many reloaders feel (and I tend to agree) that meaningful COAL adjustments are .002 to .005. Every once in a while I might adjust the COAL by .010 but this seems like I am moving the bullet the length of a football field. The only way a shooter will be able to benefit from this situation is to let go of this opinion that more than .010 change is too much (me included).
Trying to find the COAL that puts you in the sweet spot by moving .002 to .010 will take so long the barrel may be worn out by the time you sort it out if you don’t give up first. Since the sweet spot is .030 to .040 wide we recommend that you conduct the following test to find your rifles VLD sweet spot.
Load 24 rounds at the following COAL if you are a target competition shooter who does not worry about jamming a bullet:
.010 into (touching) the lands (jam) 6 rounds
.040 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
.080 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
.120 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
Load 24 rounds at the following COAL if you are a hunter (pulling a bullet out of the case with your rifling while in the field can be a hunt ending event which must be avoided) or a competition shooter who worries about pulling a bullet during a match:
.010 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
.050 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
.090 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
.130 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
Shoot 2 (separate) 3 shot groups in fair conditions to see how they group. The remarkable reality of this test is that one of these 4 COALs will outperform the other three by a considerable margin. Once you know which one of these 4 COAL shoots best then you can tweak the COAL towards or away from the lands .002 or .005. Taking the time to set this test up will pay off when you find that your rifle is capable of shooting the VLD bullets very well (even at 100 yards).
