Federal brass not full length resizing!

[Domestique]

I'm having a terrible time resizing my Federal .308 brass. Its on its 4 loading from just neck sizing, but its gotten a little hard to chamber so I thought I would full length size it. Ok, so no matter where I set the die, from just touching the shellholder to as far in as it will go, it wont chamber worth a damn! It actually becomes MUCH harder to chamber after full length sizing compared to chambering a fired case that I'm starting with.

I read another thread where it was suggested to shorten the shellholder to improve camming. Well, heres the kicker...no matter where I set the die or how hard I pull, the shellholder will never touch the bottom of the die!

Help!

 

[mdesign]

Re: Federal brass not full length resizing!

mmmmmm.... care to describe how you set up your die in your press for the sizing operation? Also, are you using enough lube?

The most likely reason that it is harder to chamber is that you are not bumping the shoulders back but squeezing them forward with an incomplete size. Does not sound like you have your die set up correctly.

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: Federal brass not full length resizing!

"..heres the kicker...no matter where I set the die or how hard I pull, the shellholder will never touch the bottom of the die!"

And there's the key; until you do make the die and shell holder touch you haven't moved the shoulder back enough. With the shoulder too far forward, you won't be able to close the action the ammo, that's what FL sizing is all about.

Use more, or a better, case lube, especially on the lower, thicker part of the case and screw the die down until it touches the shell holder with the ram fully up. It will go.

Well, I see Mr. mdesign and I agree even tho he types faster than me. In fact, I've reached an age in which everbody does everthing faster than me!

 

[Domestique]

Re: Federal brass not full length resizing!

Fuzzball, I've done just what you said. Lubed the case good and plenty, screwed the die down until it touches with the ram fully up but it still doesnt touch at the top of the stroke. I'm putting pretty much my entire body weight into the press too!

 

[308sako]

Re: Federal brass not full length resizing!

deleted in protest!

 

[Swan]

Re: Federal brass not full length resizing!

Do yourself a favor, order this: http://www.sinclairintl.com/product/11264/Case-Gauges-Headspace-Tools

along with their comparator/bump guage tool: http://www.sinclairintl.com/product/5574/Case-Gauges-Headspace-Tools and you will be good to go... after you read n follow the instructions.

 

[427Cobra]

Re: Federal brass not full length resizing!

Isn't reloading fun, as long as you have the correct die for the caliber your reloading, and threads above the lock nut you can turn the die more, throw away the instructions that came with the die, headspace measuring tools make life so much easier, measure a fired case, adjust the die until a sized case measures .001-.002 less, keep in mind that the case will get longer before it gets shorter.

 

[mdesign]

Re: Federal brass not full length resizing!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EdZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Fuzzball, I've done just what you said. Lubed the case good and plenty, screwed the die down until it touches with the ram fully up but it still doesnt touch at the top of the stroke. I'm putting pretty much my entire body weight into the press too!

</div></div>

When you screw the die down so it touches the ram there must be some pressure (cam over) when the ram is cycled. If you just screw it down until it touches lightly, you will have a space between the shell holder and the die when you size a cartridge.

This space is caused by the resistant pressure of sizing the cartridge which takes up all the play or flex in the mechanics if the ram. You will have this gap, maybe .003 to .007, no matter how hard you press on the handle. The amount of gap depends on the age and quality of the press. Its not a show stopper, just needs to be accounted for.

Its very important to have the pressure of a solid cam over when you cycle the ram with not cartridge in the die.

 

[michaeltx]

Re: Federal brass not full length resizing!

I've had that happen, where I couldn't get the die to touch the shell holder. I think mine happened with a Hornady press and a Lee die, not 100% sure on that though. I switched the lock ring with another die, used a Hornady lock ring I think, a thinner lock ring and that let me get the die down far enough. What press and die are you using?

 

[Austan]

Re: Federal brass not full length resizing!

Is the decapping rod still in the die. Try removing that and just use it as a body die and try it that way.

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: Federal brass not full length resizing!

"Fuzzball, I've done just what you said. Lubed the case good and plenty, screwed the die down until it touches with the ram fully up but it still doesnt touch at the top of the stroke. I'm putting pretty much my entire body weight into the press too!"

Okay, I presumed too much and poorly worded what I said.

What we have to do is turn the die down, in small increments, like 1/16th turns, until we obtain contact when actually doing the sizing. My bet would be that another 1/8th turn down will fix your problem. Don't over do it; going down more than is needed to close the die-shell holder gap only stresses your press without doing a thing to the cases.

Attempts to turn a die down any semi-magic amount passed intital contact without a case is virtually meaningless. How far we really have to go beyond a dry touch is determined by the individual press, not magic. Each press has some "spring" under heavy sizing pressure and so does the lever linkages so our die adjustments really need to be done to achieve the desired results. It's NOT a simple 1-2-3 process where "So much of this will always equal exactly that", etc.

The decapper rod/expander normally has no contact with the case during sizing so removing it won't help anything. If you have it screwed down too far the end of the rod can make hard contact with the web but if that was the situation the massive amount of force you're applying would bend it and push it out of the way. (Don't ask how I learned that, I ain't telling.)

 

[Domestique]

Re: Federal brass not full length resizing!

Ok, update: I got the die set to where it cams over and touches the shellholder. My brass now chambers great. However, I'm now getting a neck tension of about .005. I worked the die down in about 1/16 increments until the brass chambered easily. Once this point was reached I stopped but discovered the above problem. Backing the die out any more will result in the shoulder not being bumped enough. Is .005 acceptable? I have a lot of brass thats been neck sized to about .002. Will I notice any velocity differences between the two?

 

[427Cobra]

Re: Federal brass not full length resizing!

Any change in the cycle will produce different results, you can either have the FL die neck area opened up to match your neck die, swtich to a body only die or a bushing die, also invest is a headspace measuring tool, your most likely over working your brass.

 

[Domestique]

Re: Federal brass not full length resizing!

Thanks guys, I'm going to try a body die.

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: Federal brass not full length resizing!

The finished inside diameter of a sized neck is determined by the expander, not the die. And, yes, in my opinion being 5 thou too small is too much by at least 3 thou.

I prefer expander plugs to be the same size or barely less than the bullets. Any smaller simply leaves the necks too small and makes the seating effort greater by forcing the bullet itself serve as an expander. A smaller neck ID does NOT make for any increase in actual bullet pull/tension, the bullet only stretches the brass beyond its elastic limits of some 1 to 1.5 thou.

That means I have to lathe turn my own expanders because ALL of my conventional expander buttons are much too small. With my own expanders, my average loaded ammo run-out is reduced quite a bit by percentage.

Ed, if you do get a body die, also get a Lee Collet Neck Sizer and take the time to learn to use it. The Lee collet die is excellant for making straight case necks without making them too small. With the two, you will have the option of "FL" sizing or neck sizing. Then get a BR seater from Forster so you can seat bullets straight in your well resized cases.