Hunting & Fishing  Federal gold match for hunting

Bubb

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Well to make a long story short I learned a lesson. I had apa build my rifle around federal gold match 168 ammo. Yes the gun is black magic accurate. I shot a 5 round clip and covered it with a foam ear plug! Any way I really wanted to hunt with this rig took it out and a relly nice 6 point came out. about 120 yards slight quarter away shot fliped over bully up. I thought wow, got my dad and started over. To my surpise the buck jumped up and ran of with out getting a shot off. No blood no where I really looked. found fresh track and a few pieces of hair. Heared a shot and neighbor lady got him. Honestly I think she missed and he fell dead in fornt of her? No other holes but mine and the blood was drying up on wound so it was my shot? Anyway I hit just where cross hairs where but only a 50 cent piece exit? I dont think much bone was hit but couldn't look inside? I need a bullet that shoots like fed gold metal but is a better hunting bullet? Lesson learned.
 

JSTARSZ

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    Re: Federal gold match for hunting

    I always hate to hear these stories. You will get all kinds of stories on how SMK's kill deer and they can; however, I choose to use bonded bullets as that is what they are made specifically for. I always love the Barnes TTSX or the Nosler Accubonds. They are very accurate and bonded for killing but shot placement is still key in all conditions. Sorry you had to learn the lesson but that is just life sometimes and in the end the deer was harvested...better than losing him altogether.
     

    Niles Coyote

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    Re: Federal gold match for hunting

    168 grain Berger VLD works for me. But look at how you hunt. If you are mostly hunting under 300y any of the traditional "hunting bullets" will work well. If you are want more distance the Bergers and Hornady A-max are the way to go until the impact velocity drops below the 1700-1800fps range. Then they may or may not completely expand.
     

    CoCaDoRi

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    Re: Federal gold match for hunting

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Anyway I hit just where cross hairs where but only a 50 cent piece exit?</div></div>

    that doesn't say much... Belly up then it gets up?

    Me thinks there is much more to this.
     

    Bubb

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    Re: Federal gold match for hunting

    Saying there is more to this? The bullet didn't give the
    Wound channel? The impact knocked him over probably
    And he made it 200 yard till falling in front of the neighbor.
    It wasn't her shot that killed him. I couldn't find another hole !
    And the blood was drying on the place I shot! I just used the
    Wrong bullet! Ever hear of people loosing archery deer with
    The rage broad head? I'm sure these bullets can kill deer but
    A hunting bullet would of expanded better faster and had more
    Hemraging inside. This isn't rocket science, just wrong bullet, it
    Won't happen to me again. What you care to us it up to you
    Till this happenes to you!
     

    CoCaDoRi

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    Re: Federal gold match for hunting

    Blood drying up..on the east coast where it is very humid? Just minutes after a shot has passed through a deer?

    Exactly where did the shot pass though the animal. Hell if I ( to quote you ) place the bullet where the cross hairs were.. but was aiming at the tail..the deer would still be running.

    Where did you hit the animal..exactly?

    Been doing this a long time with many many folks Bubb.. We hardly ever not use a match bullet.

    Go to some hunting boards.. you see even the might TSX fails too... jus' sayin'
     

    coldboremiracle

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    Re: Federal gold match for hunting

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cocadori</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
    <span style="font-weight: bold">Where did you hit the animal..exactly?</span>

    Been doing this a long time with many many folks Bubb.. We hardly ever not use a match bullet.

    Go to some hunting boards.. you see even the might TSX fails too... jus' sayin' </div></div>

    ^this, EVERY kind of bullet can and will fail at some point. There are plenty of instances in this forum of Barnes,bonded,super bullets,ect. failing to expand, and or kill the animal as quickly as we would have liked. Like cocadori, I use match bullets exclusively, and in the past few years have shot 2elk,4mulies,and 4 pronghorn antelope, all with the 175 match king. If you hit them right, even if the bullet doesn't expand they will die. Thats just the way things go. Who knows what happened in this particular circumstance, but it could have happened the exact same way if you had been shooting partitions,accubonds,bearclaws,ect.

    Here is a mule heart removed (as is), hit by a 175 smk.
    DSCF5475.jpg


    Here is the kind of holes they make for me:
    DSCF5480.jpg


    Here is one I recovered from a cow elk last year:
    DSCF5442.jpg


    Here is a mule deer I shot couple years back, shot entered inside his right shoulder, passed through vitals and exited just in front of the gut, as visible in the pics. Pieces of lung and liver were found on the blood trail, which looked like someone had dumped a 5 gallon bucket down the hill. he only left a trail because it was steep and he fell that far.
    DSCF4653.jpg

    here is some of the soup:
    DSCF4654.jpg

    here is a spike bull I shot also, 560 yds when he went down, I put another between his horns as he lay there swaying his head back and forth.
    elkunt09014.jpg


    Here is the first antelope I ever shot, 190gr SMK out of a 300WSM, that is the exit wound from 850 yds away.
    FH000006.jpg


    Anyways, they will work just fine, I am just one of the many that have had excellent results. I'm sure there are those that haven't, as with any bullet.
     

    redirt78

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    Re: Federal gold match for hunting

    Like folks are saying, it has everything to do with where you put it. You are going to have to track some deer and not track others, depending on where it is hit. Hit one high in the vitals and you never know, he might go half a mile and not bleed a drop until his chest cavity fills up with enough blood to reach the level of the hole you put in him. High shoulder bone, right where it meets the spine/ shoulder blade with anything over a 22 and its usually game over.

    Here is a great example of where <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">not</span></span> to put a bullet and an even better example of what to <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">not</span></span> say afterwards.

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: anonymous</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
    Shot at 225 yards on LRF. 15mph wind from 4 o'clock.

    280 Ackely pushing a <span style="font-weight: bold">150 Nosler BT</span> at 2700.

    <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 11pt">Last time I will use a Nosler for hunting</span></span>. Its all I had loaded for this rifle and really wanted to get a kill with it. Every other rifle I have a SGK load for but not this one.

    photo205.JPG



    </div></div>

    W...T...F... Is all that comes to mind for me.

    Needless to say, Nosler ballistic tips work great as long as you place them where you should. I have taken at least two dozen deer, with five being large bodied bucks and a few wild hogs with 140 grain Nosler b tips. All shot in the heart/vitals or high shoulder. The only one I lost was a buck that I grazed by snatching the trigger. Also had to trail one with a dog but both times it was my fault. If its a doe and I know I can make the shot, its to the head.

    Its not always the bullets fault, in fact it rarely is.
     

    krw

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    Re: Federal gold match for hunting

    This SMK debate on hunting bullets will just never die? There are literally 100's of better options on a hunting bullet besides SMK's. Hell, even Sierra says they are not hunting bullets! Some of ya'll can show all the pics of game taken with SMK's you want. How many of those animals could have been taken with a 223 with FMJ bullets? Do ya'll realize how many deer are killed each yr in Ark with a lowly 22LR? Go with a bullet that will expand properly and EXIT the far side so you have a good blood trail to follow.
     

    redirt78

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    Re: Federal gold match for hunting

    Just made this. Whenever it presents itself as the best shot, this is my favorite. I have never had to track a deer when its been hit here.

    whitetailvitals_bones-1.jpg
     

    CoCaDoRi

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    Re: Federal gold match for hunting

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: krw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This SMK debate on hunting bullets will just never die? There are literally 100's of better options on a hunting bullet besides SMK's. Hell, even Sierra says they are not hunting bullets! Some of ya'll can show all the pics of game taken with SMK's you want. How many of those animals could have been taken with a 223 with FMJ bullets? Do ya'll realize how many deer are killed each yr in Ark with a lowly 22LR? Go with a bullet that will expand properly and EXIT the far side so you have a good blood trail to follow. </div></div>

    OMG... really?
     

    coldboremiracle

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    Re: Federal gold match for hunting

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: krw</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> How many of those animals could have been taken with a 223 with FMJ bullets? </div></div>
    All of them could be, if they were shot in the head.

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: krw</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Do ya'll realize how many deer are killed each yr in Ark with a lowly 22LR? </div></div>
    If so that proves the point, it matters where you hit them more than what you hit them with. And Im sure that the loss rate using .22's is probably double or triple that of center fire cartridges. Which is probably why they are illegal in most places.

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: krw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
    Go with a bullet that will expand properly and EXIT the far side so you have a good blood trail to follow. </div></div>

    Or you could shoot what you shoot best and not have to follow any trail.
    Every one of the animals I posted above either dropped in its tracks, or stumbled a few yds. Didn't need to follow any blood trail.
    Every one should use what they think is best for their scenario, I shoot SMK's, if you wanna shoot something else, great. There is far too much evidence showing that any and all bullets are susceptible to failure, so we can only rely on where we place them and hope for the best. As long as we are all doing our best making ethical kills I dont see a problem.
     

    Bill Larson

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    Re: Federal gold match for hunting

    168`s SMK work for me.... 2 elk...several deer....from 225 yds.-50 yds.
    shot the biggest W.T.deer of my 40 yr. hunting career in 2008.(175#)with 180 gr. rnd.nose remington factory... 30-06... 2 bullets to the chest at 35 yds.niether bullet went thru...stopped at the oppisite side skin...???..
    bill larson
     

    Bighouse

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    Re: Federal gold match for hunting

    I shot my first mule deer this year with a 168 grain federal gold medal match at 567 yards. Only took about ten steps and dropped dead. I agree its all about shot placement.
     

    Bubb

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    Re: Federal gold match for hunting

    Well not to rehash this, cause it does upset me... Shot was around 110-120 yards WIDE open feild. Buck was coming in to a do bleat call I just did and I was hoping my dad would get the shot. He couldn't see the buck and was starting to leave. He was quarting away and I took him behind shoulder and out in front of shoulder on other side. As for the blood, it probably took close to a hour for the whole thing to unwind for me. I don't think that was too long for the blood to thicken to the point it was? If I was using a blistic tip game over! That bullet would of destroyed both lungs? I might of only got one lung, been too far front for the other? Just glad he was recovered and not go to waist? Before i my APA rechambered to 300 wsm, for more power I'll try a real hunting bullet! On a side note that was the first time I shot with out hearing protection on and the little bastard wasn't too bad on the ears? Not that I would want to do it often?
     

    coldboremiracle

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    Re: Federal gold match for hunting

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bubb</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If I was using a blistic tip game over! That bullet would of destroyed both lungs? </div></div>
    Didn't you read the quote above, it's ironic because he's saying the exact same things you are but about the type of bullet you just praised, the Nosler ballistic tip.
    quote:"Last time I will use a Nosler for hunting"
    Case in point, like has been said several times in this and other threads; any bullet can fail or succeed, therefore placement is the key to game recovery. The rest is out of our control.


    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bubb</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I'll try a real hunting bullet! </div></div>

    Good luck with that one, if using a "real hunting bullet" will make you confident that you will anchor your deer, then go for it.
     

    CoCaDoRi

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    Re: Federal gold match for hunting

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Before i my APA rechambered to 300 wsm, for more power I'll try a real hunting bullet! </div></div>

    Really more power..for shots that will typically be under 200 yards.. umm ever! Seriously, you think power is the answer?
    A real hunting bullets..hmmm you realize the Jackets of the SMK's are thicker than the NBT's right?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> He was quarting away and I took him behind shoulder and out in front of shoulder on other side.</div></div>

    That angle if true because you missed all the bone.....And there is a lot ..would damn near be dead away.

    I'm thinking there is more to this and operator error plays a roll.
     

    krw

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    Re: Federal gold match for hunting

    Well I will have to agree with coldboremiracle on any bullet can fail. I shot a very nice 8pt 4yrs ago. 19" inside with 10" G2's. Had been using Hornady 165gr BTSP's for probly 12-15yrs. Buck broadside 175yds, deadstill. No deer no blood no nothing. Aint Daniel Boone but knew I didn't miss. On the third time going back to look found him piled up 125yds. In Pine plantations it is imperitive that a deer leaves a good blood trail. That Hornady that day was like shooting a armour piercing rd. Tight behind front shoulder complete pass through with no damage. Switched to Barnes 150gr TTSX and so far very impressed. Where you hunt, how you hunt determines what you hunt with, and that should also determine what bullet you use as well. krw
     

    greyson

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    Re: Federal gold match for hunting

    I have shot two deer in my life. About two weeks ago. I used my precision rifle. My only rifle actually. I was warned not to use match ammo to hunt with, and I even think I was told it wasn't legal. Not sure.

    Anyway...we ended up working out some loads using 168 TTSX in 308. I shot a doe (my first deer ever) head on. 80 yards. I ended up hitting her a little low right (her left). She immediately starts flopping around and I think..."ooooh...I got her good". Suddenly she jumps up and runs off in the woods and I think, "Oh shit!". What I should have done was follow-up with a second shot but I was too busy holding my wee-wee thinking this was cool.

    Luckily she ran about 100 feet. Found her dead in probably less than 5 minutes. Like I said before, I shot her cheat/front. Turns out I pulled a little low-right. Blew-up one lung. She was dead. But she didn't drop right there since I didn't place a good heart-lung shot. I thought the bullet did fine. BTW...I had all the time in the world to shoot her. I watched her for 5 minutes.

    2011hunt3.jpg

    By greyson at 2011-11-24


    Three days later, similar situation. I am seeing nothing, nearing nothing but squirrels and nobody has seen any deer since the one I shot. In a stand, I hear what sounds like hoves landing about 75 yards away. Facing me is what turns out to be a buck. But it was my last day hunting and I had already decided I would fill by second tag with a doe just for meat. Desperate to fill a tag. Bad weather, lots of wind, rough couple of days.

    Slowly turn my head to the left and see a deer in the middle of field. Bring my rifle around throw the optic on it, and think "Shit. I think it has horns". BOOM. Whole even takes MAYBE 4 seconds. Maybe.

    Drops right there. Turns out to be a nice little 8-point buck, I hit him dead center chest. Same angle as doe 3 days before. Drops like a rock. Get up close and see I hit him what I was thinking is "high". In the excitement I forgot about the .4 mils up my zero was. High shot, but I hit the deer in a vital area. The ammo is super-good, but if I don't do my part, I'm gonna be tracking a wounded deer.

    2011hunt2.jpg

    By greyson at 2011-11-24

    I mean I am literally brand-new to the hunting game. So I have not seen much about brand-x vs brand-y in this world. But I am very familiar with the SD/Tactical side of the street. I know of insurgents getting hit in the jaw with 5.56 at CQB distances still in the fight. I know of insurgents getting hit with 50BMG and still having movement in their bodies trying to operate weapons.

    And no, I am no operator or whatever either. I am a jack-ass. But it's called hunting not shooting. Tackle foot-ball is a little more involved than touch-football. You actually need to hit these Mother-F'ers to bring 'em down.

    My doe ran because I didn't get a perfect heart-lung shot. Simple as that.


    Regards,
    Greyson
     

    krw

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    Re: Federal gold match for hunting

    Greyson, I think I can enlighten you a little bit. A perfect broadside heart/lung shot will not drop a deer in its tracks. That is the great shot, more margin for error, good blood trail and you will get your deer. For a deer to drop in its track it is generally nerve related, spine, brain. Look at the diagram Redirt78 has. That high shoulder shot will make their legs just turn to jello. With you still hunting try different shot placement and watch the different results, but on your next deer try the high shoulder shot and watch em melt.
     

    coldboremiracle

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    Re: Federal gold match for hunting

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: greyson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
    My doe ran because I didn't get a perfect heart-lung shot. Simple as that.
    </div></div>

    Even if you had got a double lung shot shooting a .338 TTSX she still may have ran quite a ways. Animals can do some crazy things. We make alot of assumptions as our logic tries to make sense of things, but we are not privy to the microscopic details happening in 1/100th of a second. Until we do I think the reason some deer run and some deer dont will be a mystery. Until then we just have to do our best to put bullets in the right spot, and even then, there are no guarantees.
     

    HathcockProtege

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    Re: Federal gold match for hunting

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coldboremiracle</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: greyson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
    My doe ran because I didn't get a perfect heart-lung shot. Simple as that.
    </div></div>

    Even if you had got a double lung shot shooting a .338 TTSX she still may have ran quite a ways. Animals can do some crazy things. We make alot of assumptions as our logic tries to make sense of things, but we are not privy to the microscopic details happening in 1/100th of a second. Until we do I think the reason some deer run and some deer dont will be a mystery. Until then we just have to do our best to put bullets in the right spot, and even then, there are no guarantees. </div></div>

    This. Almost every deer I have ever double-lunged or heart shot (or seen shot) with same placement has ran 50-125 yards (sometimes farther) before dropping. I can recall 2 that dropped on the spot. I don't recall that I expected them to either. My objective was to kill the deer; not make it drop.

    When I grew up, I learned that that was just how it was supposed to be. We didn't even try to "drop" deer; we just put our bullets through the heart and lungs, watched 'em run a little ways and then tracked 'em down. Tracking was just all part of the fun. If they happened to drop in their tracks, we took that as an added bonus.

    The past few years, I have switched to high-shoulder and 4 out of 4 have been bang-flop kills. My motive for switching isn't because I'm enamored with "dropping" deer; it is just more time efficient and decreases the chance that my deer will run to another hunter before it dies when I'm hunting public land.

    Shoot whatever you shoot most accurately, then hit 'em high shoulder and watch the vast majority drop (but accept that you might have a freakin' tough tracking job if they don't drop).

    Or...
    keep on punch 'em through the heart/lungs and learn to enjoy tracking. Shoot, sometimes I almost miss tracking deer since I switched to high-shoulder hits!
    laugh.gif


    If you decide to stick with heart-lung shots, take some quartering shots that give you the chance to break shoulders as well as demolish the heart/lungs. When you see how nicely they go down, you will eventually convert to being an exclusively high-shoulder shooter.
    smile.gif


    I strongly suggest that you don't switch bullets if your current choice is giving you good accuracy. Instead, learn how to kill things with the tools you have.

    "Ain't no magic involved..."

    -The Kid.
     

    greyson

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    Re: Federal gold match for hunting

    I agree with the the above statements. I am popping off a bit. Admittidly I don't have much expierence hunting. And I don't mean to state animals just drop with a perfect shot. It's much more compliacted and chaotic. I just am not much of a believer in the whole, "It was my ammo" thing.

    As stated above, first deer. Large doe. Shot her chest-forward. She flopped around like a fish and then ran. My first instinct wasn't, "This TTSX stuff doesn't work". Far from it. But someone more susceptible to the whims of advertising might.
    cool.gif



    Regards,
    Greyson
     

    -=boone=-

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    Re: Federal gold match for hunting

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: redirt78</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just made this. Whenever it presents itself as the best shot, this is my favorite. I have never had to track a deer when its been hit here.

    whitetailvitals_bones-1.jpg
    </div></div>

    175 SMK DRT...
    7point.jpg
     

    Killer Spade 13

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    Re: Federal gold match for hunting

    Another for Boone's selected shot placement.
    Whenever I can I'll take a center neck shot
    Longer ranges, I go for Boone's location.
     

    leprechaun

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    Those rounds WORK there is no reason NOT to hunt with them
     

    GardDog

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    Re: Federal gold match for hunting

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: redirt78</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just made this. Whenever it presents itself as the best shot, this is my favorite. I have never had to track a deer when its been hit here.

    whitetailvitals_bones-1.jpg
    </div></div>

    TN20086pt.jpg


    SMK can do the job, but placement is key.
     

    JCH

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    Re: Federal gold match for hunting

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elkhuntinguide</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A match boolit for hunting???
    nanmaisla.gif
    </div></div>

    NO WAY! Those bullets will just bounce right off!
     

    Jackson/Charvelfan1

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    Re: Federal gold match for hunting

    I have been shooting just to the rear and low to the off switch spot lately and the furthest I have tracked is 50yds. I lost the fist deer I shot when I was 21 with my 243win. We tracked it for 100yds and I hear a boom about 75yds away. Never used my 243win to hunt with again but it was more than likely shot placement.
     

    coldboremiracle

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    Re: Federal gold match for hunting

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tlp1968</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Never used my 243win to hunt with again but it was more than likely shot placement. </div></div>

    It was more than likely shot placement.
     

    5RWill

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    Re: Federal gold match for hunting

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GardDog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

    SMK can do the job, but placement is key.</div></div>

    Agreed, while i'm not running the SMK, i'm running Berger 175gr BT LRs in my .308. Shot this one at 253yds with that bullet @ 2618fps he didn't move. A great alternative to having a match round thats made for hunting is the berger VLD hunting bullets. I plan on using those when i get this rifle rebarrelled in 6.5x47L. Since berger doesn't make a 175gr BT LR hunting version (as they do with the VLDs) I'm just sticking with it.

    Hell i took a doe with the SPR using a 77gr SMK she didn't move either. Every deer i've shot in the neck now hasn't moved, idk maybe i'm lucky.
    375462_2205407616465_1285620147_31871976_1944084489_n.jpg
     

    Drifter

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    Aug 16, 2002
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    Alaska
    Re: Federal gold match for hunting


    I have had great luck with the 165 g Game kings from sierra. They shoot just as well as the 165 match kings out of my LTR.

    Yeah man, Game bullet for game, match bullet for steel/paper. yes it will kill, but why screw with it when they make bullets designed for the purpose of killing game.

    Try the 165s Im betting you will be happy.
     

    RemingtonSPS

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    Nov 1, 2008
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    Tri-Cities, WA
    Re: Federal gold match for hunting

    A wise benchrester told me once that its not a good idea to force feed my rifle but find the bullet that IT likes the best, the most accurate. Accuracy final, if your gun shoots GMM more accurately than anything else than roll with it.

    Bullets put holes in things, it's your job to put it in the right place.

    I don't care what bullet it is, if you put a hole where its supposed to be the critters gonna die.
     

    RemingtonSPS

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    Re: Federal gold match for hunting

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Drifter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
    yes it will kill, but why screw with it when they make bullets designed for the purpose of killing game.
    </div></div>

    Marketing. A poorly placed shot will not become a good one just because you use a "Hunting" bullet.

    I don't care what those Beer commercials say either, i haven't found a brand yet that got a bunch of super models to show up at my house when i opened one.
    smile.gif
     

    KJMOC

    Private
    Minuteman
    May 6, 2011
    0
    0
    37
    TN
    Re: Federal gold match for hunting

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MuleHunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Drifter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
    yes it will kill, but why screw with it when they make bullets designed for the purpose of killing game.
    </div></div>

    Marketing. A poorly placed shot will not become a good one just because you use a "Hunting" bullet.

    I don't care what those Beer commercials say either, i haven't found a brand yet that got a bunch of super models to show up at my house when i opened one.
    smile.gif
    </div></div>

    Quoted for truth.
     

    swampgas2012

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    Dec 24, 2011
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    36
    Re: Federal gold match for hunting

    I shot a doe this season with a 168 gr Berger VLD and it got away only to be found a week later by the neighbor. The hole was in lower left of vitals, hit the lungs and passed through. I've been kicking myself for not using 168 gr SMK, with which my rifle is most accurate. I can get .25MOA groups with those, but the questionable ethics of using a non-expanding hollowpoint (why we can take them to war but shouldn't hunt with them is beyond me)on game made me go with Berger. After seeing pics on this thread, I think I'll try my SMKs. I'm not saying Bergers aren't good, they just aren't as accurate out of my rifle.
     

    jasonahull

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    Nov 9, 2009
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    everett washington
    Re: Federal gold match for hunting

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cocadori</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
    Anyway I hit just where cross hairs where but only a 50 cent piece exit?</div></div>



    I would have shot him again and got a buck.
    laugh.gif


    Bad shots happen. It sucks but that is how it goes sometimes.
     

    jasonahull

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    Re: Federal gold match for hunting

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: slowkota</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Aren't "Match" bullets FMJ? </div></div>

    Some may be. Not usually. At least not the ones I have used.
     

    Greg Langelius *

    Resident Elder Fart
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    Aug 10, 2001
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    Re: Federal gold match for hunting

    I have used the 180SGK in matches when my local supply of 175SMK's dried up and time was short. Aside from somewhat increased copper fouling, no appreciable difference.

    IMHO, there's no great upside to using non-hunting-purposed ammunition for hunting. Further, unless you're shooting a seriously significant number of hunting rounds on a regular basis, I doubt the effort, cost, time, and bore wear associated with developing an effective hunting load can be easily justified. Meanwhile, the shelves overflow with practical, effective hunting loads.

    In addition to being accurate, a hunting load needs dependable terminal performance, which target projectiles do not provide <span style="font-style: italic">reliably</span>. The consequence of bull headed determination to ignore such advice is usually paid by the game, too many who suffer needlessly.

    Combine this with equally hard headed determination to prove I know not what, many hunters insist on stretching the envelope regarding both their own marksmanship and the bullet's terminal performance by attempting to take game at distances few others would consider practical.

    The lucky animals get missed cleanly, others are not so lucky. Whatever it is that's getting 'proved' is bought at the price of needlessly wounded animals escaping to die slowly.

    I think that as hunters, we owe them more than that. I pass up perhaps as many shots as I take when conditions dictate too low a likelihood of a clean kill; or when safety toward others sharing the field may be questionable. Bad shots do not need to be inevitible, wise shots do.

    Greg
     

    HathcockProtege

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    Feb 20, 2010
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    Central PA
    Re: Federal gold match for hunting

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have used the 180SGK in matches when my local supply of 175SMK's dried up and time was short. Aside from somewhat increased copper fouling, no appreciable difference.

    IMHO, there's no great upside to using non-hunting-purposed ammunition for hunting. Further, unless you're shooting a seriously significant number of hunting rounds on a regular basis, I doubt the effort, cost, time, and bore wear associated with developing an effective hunting load can be easily justified. Meanwhile, the shelves overflow with practical, effective hunting loads.

    In addition to being accurate, a hunting load needs dependable terminal performance, which target projectiles do not provide <span style="font-style: italic">reliably</span>. The consequence of bull headed determination to ignore such advice is usually paid by the game, too many who suffer needlessly.

    Combine this with equally hard headed determination to prove I know not what, many hunters insist on stretching the envelope regarding both their own marksmanship and the bullet's terminal performance by attempting to take game at distances few others would consider practical.

    The lucky animals get missed cleanly, others are not so lucky. Whatever it is that's getting 'proved' is bought at the price of needlessly wounded animals escaping to die slowly.

    I think that as hunters, we owe them more than that. I pass up perhaps as many shots as I take when conditions dictate too low a likelihood of a clean kill; or when safety toward others sharing the field may be questionable. Bad shots do not need to be inevitible, wise shots do.

    Greg </div></div>

    Greg, I don't doubt that you have forgotten more than some of us here will ever know about LR shooting, but...

    I would respectfully submit that you have provided the rebuttal to one of your statements @ least:

    "IMHO, there's no great upside to using non-hunting-purposed ammunition for hunting. Further, unless you're shooting a seriously significant number of hunting rounds on a regular basis, I doubt the effort, cost, time, and bore wear associated with developing an effective hunting load can be easily justified. Meanwhile, the shelves overflow with practical, effective hunting loads."

    Most of us don't want to develop another load for hunting after we put so much work into a target load. Since most of us believe that shot placement trumps bullet selection every time, why switch bullets (and go through load development all over) for those three or four shots you will take on game every year? Further, isn't there some merit to shooting that load with which we are most familiar? Isn't it providing the greatest chance of a solid hit to the vitals to hunt with that load that we know like the back of our hand? Seems like the greater disservice to the animal is to hunt with an unfamiliar load.

    I believe that you are promoting factory hunting loads since you believe that a long range shot is impractical and unethical to begin with. I can respect that. But, for the great number of shooters on here that will continue to shoot farther than you approve of, they definitely won't be satisfied with the accuracy of factory hunting loads, and I believe accuracy is their first priority.

    If I understand correctly, you are basically saying: "Forget about shooting long range just because you do it all the time with match bullets; switch to factory loadings and limit yourself to short range for hunting." That's your approach...and one that most of us don't share.

    When did we start talking about shot distance anyway?

    Please don't take this as a personal attack; I appreciate your viewpoint. You are a Grandfatherly pragmatic sort of wet-blanket to us here on the Hide. And I mean that kindly.
    smile.gif


    -The Kid.
     

    Greg Langelius *

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    Aug 10, 2001
    8,994
    5,147
    AZ
    Re: Federal gold match for hunting

    No I don't take it as anythig like an attack, and I sincerely appreciate the thought you've given to your reply.

    Part of my philosphy comes from my location, the Northeast, where long distance shots top out at around 300yd. Obviously none of this holds true for the Sothwest, and I should make it clear that I consider that a different case entirely.

    Another part comes from my belief that the 'hunt' part of hunting involves being able to close the distance during the stalk. IMHO, LR marksmanship does not trump good stalking skills. Again, for the Southwest, such stalks could be nigh impossible, but that fact in itself does not make long range marksmanship any simpler or more effective.

    Yet another part comes from encountering wounded deer in the woods. They are clearly suffering, and in at least half the instances I've encountered, too badly riddled with infection to be more then even partially edible.

    Two examples, a deer I harvested which had a broad point stuck head on into its sternum. Too badly infected to eat without discarding a sizeable portion. Another deer found wandering aimleslessly, crashing into trees and such. It had been shot in the head, one eye destroyed, the other damaged beyond use. The infection was so bad the stench had me gagging 20 feet away.

    There were more, but I don't wish to turn this topic into a gross-out. It can be amazing how resilient deer can be, and the sorts of injuries they can overcome long enough to escape and die slowly

    I consider the deer harvest to be a humane alternative to having many deer die of slow starvation as Winter Kills. IMHO, it increases the rest of the herd's chances of survival. Taking a significant chance of increasing, rather than decreasing the misery factor runs counter to my intent.

    As I've said, we owe the animals more than some of us are willing to devote on their behalf.

    If one must handload hunting loads, Sierra makes very valid hunting bullet choices that are essentially interchangeable with their own similar weight match bullets, so load development needn't be an issue.

    But even that's unnecessary, with all the reasonably priced, and surprisingly effective hunting loads that are commercially available.

    For example, I'd suggest this as a viable alternative to FGMM. ...And yes, I do notice it's Out-of-Stock. Maybe (after the close of deer season) that means it's a pretty popular choice.

    Some may denigrate the commercial offerings, believing it's a slam dunk to produce a better hunting load themselves, but maybe that's just pride talking. Few have the resources to rival the commercial producers' ability to develop <span style="font-style: italic">proven</span> terminal performance, especially at extended distances, and not just the accuracy they consider paramount.

    That's why I'm willing to buy several boxes of Hornady Superformance and Custom hunting loads at upwards of $2 a shot. They work, period, end of story. I trust them to be accurate and effective to distances well beyond what I consider to be my own reliable marksmanship limits. That's my contribution to ethical hunting.

    I consider the price for all that, all of it just sitting there on the shelf in a neat box, to be a reasonable and wise investment. Spending some extra for the premium stiff allays many of the more conventional arguments. It's not just the cartrdges we're buying, its the develoment that went into them.

    In the instances of dangerous game, I suspect some guides won't allow handloads. If something goes wrong, it's tough to obtain damage compensation from a dead client, or pay damages to one who survives, crippled for life and sueing everything in sight with a heartbeat because the guide agreed to allow ammunition what may or may not have contributed to the disaster.

    I read the accounts of hunting mishaps and mentally visualize the subsequent court proceedings. It is at times like those that I relish not having to anticipate explaining why I eschewed the conventional approach to providing my hunting ammunition, and why my handloading skills had no bearing on a victim's plight.

    Liability is out there, just waiting patiently for times we seldom think to regret in advance. I'd like to be able to say that's just the paranoia talking. I can't.

    I'm not trying to dictate to others how they should hunt. I'm trying to enlighten them to the alternatives and some of their implications. I see a lot fo people come out of hunter education who clearly haven't thought out how a hunt can be ethical, or why it should.

    My approval is the very last thing folks should be concerning themselves about. But I <span style="font-style: italic">do</span> want them to consider a few of the things I believe to be pretty important.

    Greg
     

    coldboremiracle

    Freelance Sharpshooter
    Full Member
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  • Jul 7, 2009
    5,063
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    Utah, north
    www.coldboremiracle.com
    Re: Federal gold match for hunting

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
    Part of my philosphy comes from my location, the Northeast, where long distance shots top out at around 300yd. Obviously none of this holds true for the Sothwest, and I should make it clear that I consider that a different case entirely.

    Another part comes from my belief that the 'hunt' part of hunting involves being able to close the distance during the stalk. IMHO, LR marksmanship does not trump good stalking skills. Again, for the Southwest, such stalks could be nigh impossible, but that fact in itself does not make long range marksmanship any simpler or more effective.

    Yet another part comes from encountering wounded deer in the woods. They are clearly suffering, and in at least half the instances I've encountered, too badly riddled with infection to be more then even partially edible.


    My approval is the very last thing folks should be concerning themselves about. But I <span style="font-style: italic">do</span> want them to consider a few of the things I believe to be pretty important.

    Greg </div></div>

    You make some very good points Greg, and I have no problem with a philosophy such as yours. I think that everyone needs to do what they can to execute the best possible shot on an animal. Whether it be factory,handload,match,hunting,ect. I agree with the kid here, I shoot a hundred or so rounds a month out each of my rifles, each gun has <span style="font-style: italic">ONE</span> load, and they shoot it very well. That is what I shoot best as well, and together we make a pretty good team. My best effort would include match bullets, and so far I have not had any disappointments.

    I also wanted to say something else, about what you said about passing on less than good shots. I haven't been around the block as many times as you, I'm still in that "young fella needs a big trophy deer to tell stories about" that older gentlemen like yourself probably left behind years ago. The last couple deer/elk hunts have proved to be quite elusive for my hunting group, and I have had the good fortune to luck into some animals. I assume that most people would have passed on some of the shots I have taken in the past, (like:560yd running shot on an elk, 904yd shot on a mulie,or a 850yd shot on an antelope) But had it not been for my taking those shots, I would definitely not have gotten one. I didn't feel that I was pushing my envelope, nor was I uncomfortable with the shot, and two of the three shots were with SMK's that performed perfectly, the other was a 180sst. I guess what I'm saying is that some of us cant afford to pass some shots, and the practice we get shooting our matches so often pays off heavily when we are in a hunting pinch. And for alot of us, that includes using match bullets.