• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

First Bolt Action Rifle Purchase Advice

tggman

Private
Minuteman
Feb 25, 2021
4
0
Illinois
Looking to purchase my first bolt action rifle for the range and would like your thoughts on Browning's X-Bolt Max Long Range.

I'm a lefty and plan to use it at the range only.

Thanks in advance!
 
Tikka T3x TAC A1 ... in 6.5 Creedmoor. I believe they make a lefty version. It's my most accurate rifle ... and I have some VERY nice rifles.
 
  • Like
Reactions: diverdon
Thanks all for the feedback.
My son also recommended the Tikka T3x and as a result it was #2 on my list. As an engineer, I preferred the design and feature set of x-bolt over the Tikka T3x and was willing to spend "a bit" extra ... but I don't want to throw away money either. Can you folks explain why one might be better then the other - and for that matter - what design features are most important for a (bolt action rifle) novice like myself?
 
For around the same price, I'd look at Tikka and Bergara before that Browning

Just for the options with after market
 
Thanks all for the feedback.
My son also recommended the Tikka T3x and as a result it was #2 on my list. As an engineer, I preferred the design and feature set of x-bolt over the Tikka T3x and was willing to spend "a bit" extra ... but I don't want to throw away money either. Can you folks explain why one might be better then the other - and for that matter - what design features are most important for a (bolt action rifle) novice like myself?
The overwhelming support for Tikka by industry professionals in the space this forum caters to is huge. For production rifles, @lowlight (owner of this site) and @velayo_0317 are fans of Tikka. As professional instructors, they see a lot of rifles come through their classes. Their feedback is based on what they know works, because they’ve seen it personally.

For what it’s worth (and I’m a nobody), I don’t know any “shooters” that use browning rifles. I know some “hunters” that use browning, but they probably shoot less than a box of ammo in a year.
 
Last edited:
Thanks all for the feedback.
My son also recommended the Tikka T3x and as a result it was #2 on my list. As an engineer, I preferred the design and feature set of x-bolt over the Tikka T3x and was willing to spend "a bit" extra ... but I don't want to throw away money either. Can you folks explain why one might be better then the other - and for that matter - what design features are most important for a (bolt action rifle) novice like myself?

First, I've never really looked at the xbolt and haven't seen on in person, but from reading through the link that you posted....

Some of those "features" don't seem to be good in my opinion.

That X Lock scope mounting system... does that require x lock rings only? I'd rather have a good rail and good rings from known providers

And that bolt unlock button? No thanks. That also would limit you on your choices for bolt handles/knobs

And I've never had a rotary mag that actually worked well
 
I’d find a Remington 700 of any flavor on sale. One with a round barrel. I’ve seen crazy cheap sales on them. Under $400. Ditch the factory stock and drop it in a manners or McMillan and have it bedded. You’ll be under $1000 and will have a gun that hammers better than a Tikka. I did this exact thing for my brother.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BigRed308
I’d find a Remington 700 of any flavor on sale. One with a round barrel. I’ve seen crazy cheap sales on them. Under $400. Ditch the factory stock and drop it in a manners or McMillan and have it bedded. You’ll be under $1000 and will have a gun that hammers better than a Tikka. I did this exact thing for my brother.
You didn’t mention the factory trigger, which is absolute dog shit.
 
  • Like
Reactions: slickalaus12
Tikka's barrel quality is far superior to browning.
 
Tikka or Howa
Tikka has better aftermarket support
 
As an engineer, I preferred the design and feature set of x-bolt over the Tikka T3x
As an engineer myself, you have to filter what you see through experience as a user.

If this is your first bolt action rifle, what you think might be useful or preferable may not really be so.

What about the X bolt caught your attention so much?
 
  • Like
Reactions: spife7980
I’d find a Remington 700 of any flavor on sale. One with a round barrel. I’ve seen crazy cheap sales on them. Under $400. Ditch the factory stock and drop it in a manners or McMillan and have it bedded. You’ll be under $1000 and will have a gun that hammers better than a Tikka. I did this exact thing for my brother.

I did this... found a nice 700 varmint used for a good price... put it in an MPA chassis and it shoots great for less money than I have in my Tikkas.

I'm not sure I'd say it hammers better than Tikka, but it's just as good.

I think if you plan to tinker on your own, then Tikka may be the better option because of it's tighter tolerances

But if you have the necessary tools/skills to work on the Rem or are sending to a good smith, then it's probably all equal.
 
if at all possible, try to find a friend or friends who have rifles in your choices and actually sit down at a bench and get down prone and shoot them. (if the rifles belong to a friend, help him clean it, be sure you pay for the ammo and then take him out for a nice meal).

If not possible and I know finding rifles to try out is hard, I would recommend getting something really inexpensive. A Ruger American or a Weatherby Vanguard are good examples but there are others. Shoot them and get a feel for what it is like to shoot a bolt action. With those rifles, if it isn’t your cup of tea, you’ve lost $500.00, much of which you can gain back by selling the rifle on a site like gunbroker or our own PX if you are eligible. (Or keep it as a spare when you decide you need something much better)

Nothing like spending a huge amount, only to find that they firearm just does not work for you or, you can’t upgrade it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 308pirate
My opinion - the stock design on most rifles, regardless of make and material, is pretty terrible for me. It's probably getting thrown out, so I don't sweat it too much. If it DOES work, that's a nice bonus. If I had it to do over again knowing that, I'd look really hard at a barreled action from Howa or Bergara (or a Tikka if I could find one at comparable cost) and then buy a stock of my choosing if I were gonna put together a 6.5 CM for the range.

Howa from Brownells:
https://www.brownells.com/rifle-par...hreaded-heavy-barreled-action-prod103531.aspx

Bergara from Sports South:

If you wanted to but it outright, no muss, no fuss, sourcing parts and ordering stocks, you could also do a hell of a lot worse than a Howa 1500 Bravo (which is basically the above dropped into a KRG Bravo chassis).
 
My opinion - the stock design on most rifles, regardless of make and material, is pretty terrible for me. It's probably getting thrown out, so I don't sweat it too much. If it DOES work, that's a nice bonus. If I had it to do over again knowing that, I'd look really hard at a barreled action from Howa or Bergara (or a Tikka if I could find one at comparable cost) and then buy a stock of my choosing if I were gonna put together a 6.5 CM for the range.

Howa from Brownells:
https://www.brownells.com/rifle-par...hreaded-heavy-barreled-action-prod103531.aspx

Bergara from Sports South:

If you wanted to but it outright, no muss, no fuss, sourcing parts and ordering stocks, you could also do a hell of a lot worse than a Howa 1500 Bravo (which is basically the above dropped into a KRG Bravo chassis).

Have you tried the Tikka tac?

I swapped a MPA grip on and it’s pretty solid, not that the slanted more AR style grip was that bad
 
I’d find a Remington 700 of any flavor on sale. One with a round barrel. I’ve seen crazy cheap sales on them. Under $400. Ditch the factory stock and drop it in a manners or McMillan and have it bedded. You’ll be under $1000 and will have a gun that hammers better than a Tikka. I did this exact thing for my brother.
tenor.gif
 
Once upon a time, Browning was top-shelf stuff. I have a '60s-vintage A5 shotgun whose fit & finish are amazing. But times change - the A5 is a kick-like-mule dinosaur and newer Browning shotguns... meh. You did well to check in here.

I'm not quite four years into this precision rifle stuff after a few decades of shotgun competition and a lifetime of shooting. I started off with a pair of Tikkas and moved to Remington 700 footprint customs. I'm retired and have spent a lot of time and $ learning the stuff that you're looking at now.

You said this will be a range toy. What range? For 500 yards or under, a .223 is superbly accurate and cheaper to shoot than larger calibers, and has great barrel life. For 200 yards or under... [shrug] I'd get a nice .22 and feed it good ammo and screw the centerfires unless you just want one. That's just me, because I'm so addicted to this silliness that shooting centerfire at under 500 yards just seems pointless unless you're into F-class and such. Also, if you don't intend to shoot more than a few boxes of ammo a year, maybe a sub-$750 rifle will work just fine for you.

With that said...

If you want a top-shelf factory-built range toy that has ample aftermarket support at a sub-$2000 price point for the ready-to-go rifle sans optic - it's extremely hard to beat a Tikka.

If you go $2000 and up, you can look into the "factory customs" from MPA, Defiance/Badrock, etc. which all have Remington 700 footprint actions, which means you get easily swappable bits to upgrade, resell, etc. Example: Let's say you buy a Badrock Southfork rifle, which I believe is based on the Defiance Tenacity action, for $1995 fitted with the MDT LSS-XL Gen-2 chassis. You decide to get into PRS... the LSS-XL chassis is nice (I had one), but it's an older, entry-level design. So you can upgrade to any other R700 chassis (or stock) and swap it in in 20 minutes tops by removing/replacing two screws. Same with triggers.

Tikka absolutely has lots of aftermarket support - just keep in mind the bits are Tikka-specific. Building on the above example: Buy a Tikka T3X in whatever flavor, ditch the horrid rubber stock, and replace with MDT, MPA, KRG, whatever. Plenty of stock/chassis options. Not quite as many options for trigger upgrade, but Tikka triggers are quite good out of the box. You'll also need a good picatinny rail for scope mounting on many Tikka models. But the barreled actions are great.

Sure, you can absolutely buy rifles for $500-600 or even less and put time, money, and effort into making it what a Tikka would be when you take it out of the box. And it will still resell like a $500-600 rifle regardless of $$ you put into it, and unless you pay $$ to a good smith, compared to a Tikka it's going to cycle like dragging a crowbar through a keg of nails.

If all you're going to do is shoot half a dozen boxes of ammo a year at 100-200 yard range, spending more than $1000 for a centerfire rifle would be like buying an Audi A4 to drive to the grocery store once a month. Nothing wrong with it, but a stripped Ford Escape would be more than enough to get the job done.

Welcome to SH. There's a gold mine of info here, and for someone new to precision rifle, it can be overwhelming. Take your time to learn, accept that you'll buy and sell a bunch of stuff, and enjoy the ride.
 
Have you tried the Tikka tac?

I swapped a MPA grip on and it’s pretty solid, not that the slanted more AR style grip was that bad

If you mean the factory Tikka chassis rifle, no. I'm definitely not a chassis guy in a general sense. As a rule, if the butt stock has a pronounced hook or a significant amount of "hollow" space, I'm out. You can see where that leaves me...even when the LOP range goes down to 12.5" or so where I want it to be.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TurboTrout
LOL Thanks to all for the thought provoking, stimulatingly discussion! Tikka is obviously the "known quantity" with an excellent reputation and cost-performance ratio. Now it's going to come down to what I can actually get my hands on during this COVID crap.
 
Now it's going to come down to what I can actually get my hands on
Here's another thought... check into some of the outfits that will build a custom rifle for you with parts they stock, especially the SH supporting vendors like Altus. I've been pleased with service from Southern Precision Rifles (online at Bugholes.com); I learned about them from my longtime friend and gunsmith who orders components from them. Give Greg or Russ a call (leave a message if no one picks up) and describe what you want to do. If you check out their site, you can get an idea of what things cost and what's available Right Now.

Edit: Heh. Then all ya gotta do is find some kinda ammo to shoot out of it :rolleyes:
 
  • Like
Reactions: tggman
As the owner of multiple R700s, Tikka, AI, RPR, etc
(stay away from Savage... sh*t company)

Tikka makes a GREAT turnkey setup. Barrel and trigger are quality out of the box, but you're trapped in the Tikka ecosystem as opposed to the R700 clones which have tons of accessories. For low price and easy answer, I love Tikka and recommend to my friends. Toss it into a Bravo chassis by KRG (I get you prefer stocks), AICS mags and done. Just get great glass and mount.

R700. Don't bother. Seriously. Just don't bother. You'll spend more than a custom and still have a lesser rifle. Just my opinion. Still have one and wish I didn't.

Custom actions. Overall they're much better than they were 20+ years ago, but they're still somewhat finicky sometimes. A cheaper action like the newest version of Nucleus or Origin are pretty good for the $ with a quality barrel.

Don't know if the new AT-X by AI is available lefty, but a buy once cry once option. If you can afford $5k for your rifle and they make a lefty AND you plan on shooting for many years. I'd go this route. I'm not a lefty so I don't know about their lefty availability but they have them for older models.

In the end, your action needs to be reliable and you need to like using it (throw, smoothness, etc) and always a quality barrel. If not for the lefty/chassis issue I'd recommend an RPR, which some people here dislike. I loved the Gen1 I had, still recommend it and they're on Gen3 now.

Skip the Browning. the people on this forum are obsessed with bolt action rifles. Trust them when they say to skip the browning.
 
Last edited:
I would steer away from Browning due to the lack of aftermarket support. Another vote for Tikka.
This is why I regret buying a howa off the bat. If I had it to do over I’d go Rem 700 action or a clone.
However, tikka is gaining popularity and support.
I just became disappointed searching for stocks/triggers and other odds and ins for my howa. In all actuality, the add ons are necessary, but they can help mentally. Better yet, it’s fun to search what’s available for your gun.
Good luck and welcome to the rice pads. It’s a long hole you’re falling into.
 
This is why I regret buying a howa off the bat. If I had it to do over I’d go Rem 700 action or a clone.
However, tikka is gaining popularity and support.
I just became disappointed searching for stocks/triggers and other odds and ins for my howa. In all actuality, the add ons are necessary, but they can help mentally. Better yet, it’s fun to search what’s available for your gun.
Good luck and welcome to the rice pads. It’s a long hole you’re falling into.
You’ve got multiple, quality chassis options from MDT and KRG for your Howa. It couldn’t hurt to call/email Manners to see if they can inlet a stock for you. Stockys carried some Howa-inlet Manners stocks for a while. Timney triggers too.

Better off than trying to find precision rifle aftermarket stuff for an x bolt
 
  • Like
Reactions: BigRed308
You’ve got multiple, quality chassis options from MDT and KRG for your Howa. It couldn’t hurt to call/email Manners to see if they can inlet a stock for you. Stockys carried some Howa-inlet Manners stocks for a while. Timney triggers too.

Better off than trying to find precision rifle aftermarket stuff for an x bolt
100% correct but still not the love for the 700s. I’ve since move away from the howa and leave it as is. I occasionally slip back to it as a reminder of my roots. Options have certainly become available recently, just not the abundance of possibilities. Just something the OP should keep in mind-sometimes it’s cheaper entry but it may cut you short of your end goal.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JC0352
Tikka or Sako💯
My favourite rifle is my AI .338 Lapua Magnum.
However my everyday feral smacker, is My Tikka Super Varmint in 6.5 Creedmoor.
It is very reliable and accurate.
I have a Vortex Razor scope on it, a devastating combination.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rabbitseason
See ANSI Y14.5 for what they mean to me

I thought ANSI tolerance stuff was B4.X? Do you mean ASME Y14.5?

Also what @LuvDog said can make sense, Tikkas generally have tight enough tolerance that you can buy shouldered pre-fit barrels. Using tolerance in that context makes sense.

OP: Howa or Tikka gets my vote
 
I thought ANSI tolerance stuff was B4.X? Do you mean ASME Y14.5?

Also what @LuvDog said can make sense, Tikkas generally have tight enough tolerance that you can buy shouldered pre-fit barrels. Using tolerance in that context makes sense.

OP: Howa or Tikka gets my vote
Yes, ASME. Some specs are joint which is why I though this one was.

People, including you, confuse tolerances with fits and with process capability all the time. They are not synonyms.

None of you know what tolerances Sako uses for its Tikka products. None of you know because the only way you would know is if you had access to Sako blueprints and I know that none of us do.

Even measuring parts doesn't tell you what the dimensional allowance is. It only tells you what the mfg process capability is.

Anyway it doesn't matter. People will keep on making nonsense statements pretending to know they understand this no matter what.
 
Yes, ASME. Some specs are joint which is why I though this one was.

People, including you, confuse tolerances with fits and with process capability all the time. They are not synonyms.

None of you know what tolerances Sako uses for its Tikka products. None of you know because the only way you would know is if you had access to Sako blueprints and I know that none of us do.

Even measuring parts doesn't tell you what the dimensional allowance is. It only tells you what the mfg process capability is.

Anyway it doesn't matter. People will keep on making nonsense statements pretending to know they understand this no matter what.

Better call up all the custom action manufacturers and tell them when they guarantee headspace tolerance that they're using the term incorrectly.
 
It really comes down to personal preference. Browning doesn't make a bad rifle if you don't really want to change anything. If you ever want to change stocks, triggers, or barrels I would looks for a rifle with a larger aftermarket aupport.
Tika, Howa, Begara, Remington, even Savage and Ruger all make good rifles for the money with more support than the browning.
Savage, Howa and Ruger and a lot of Remingtons will give you decent performance at a reasonable price at the cost of fit and finish. Howa and Begara benefit from sharing a Remington 700 foot print so a lot of parts are interchangeable (Except Begara's barrels because they have a coned bolt face). This make trigger and stock options nearly endless. Tikas are the more expensive option but are typically considered one of the better options for out of the box performance with out jumping to a semi custom or custom rifle.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tggman
Better call up all the custom action manufacturers and tell them when they guarantee headspace tolerance that they're using the term incorrectly.

Dude, you don't know what the hell you're talking about.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Harman117
Dude, you don't know what the hell you're talking about.
Nothing I said was wrong!

Like you said: None of us know what tolerances Tikka has for headspace, they could be tight enough for the pre-fits
 
Last edited:
Just an FYI, the thread was for buying a rifle, not tolerances, clearances, fits, etc.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tggman
Just an FYI, the thread was for buying a rifle, not tolerances, clearances, fits, etc.
Very true, my apologies OP for my hand in it.

I've had a couple of Tikkas and Howas both, and they are great. Can't go wrong with either (also Howa does not share foot print with Rem 700 FYI)
 
Browning sells a really nice hunting type rifle.
That being said, for your stated purpose, buy a Tikka CTR and go home happy.
If you're shooting 600 yards or less, keep the factory Scope Rail on it. More than 600 yards, put a 20MOA Rail on it.
If you like single stage triggers, lighten the adjustment on the OEM trigger with an allen wrench.
Want it even lighter ? Change a $ 10 spring.
Want a two stage trigger ? Buy a KRG Midas or a Timney. I have no experience with the Timney, but I have 2 KRG Midas Triggers.
Don't like the bolt handle ? @cannoncrossfire is Sterk and bolt handles / knobs and and bolt shrouds are his area of expertise.
Don't like the stock ? KRG Bravo is the gateway chassis and they go on from there.
Nearly everyone inlets for a Tikka now and used parts don't last long on the EE.