I'm looking at getting my first custom action (well kinda... traded for a badger 2008 but never shot or had it in a stock before I traded it.) I'm mostly looking at surgeon defiance or bighorn and wanted to see what most people are using and what your reviews and thoughts are about the action. It'll be used for prs matches.
First custom action
- Thread starter 6.5creedmoor
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Stiller makes a hard product to argue with if you ask me. The couple hundred you save can go into a trigger or glass. Personally if you aren't concerned with a couple hundred buck Id go with a defiance. They are well known and reliable. If I build another bolt gun it will be on a defiance action.
Was thinking stiller to but have heard a lot of good and bad things about them and am on the fence about getting one.
Those three are all good actions. And your rifle will shoot all the same with any of 'em. I personally like Defiance because you can custom spec the action in any number of ways and Defiance will do their best to accommodate you. I've never shot the newer Bighorn TL3, but it looks nice. I personally have no need for changeable bolt heads, and I've never had a problem with a typical push-feed or typical mini-16 extractor. So while the innovations Bighorn brings to the table are nice, they don't really solve any problems for me. So I'm sticking to Defiance. Surgeon is nice, too. But I'd rather get the action spec'd exactly how I want it, and again... Defiance lets me.
I like and use the Bighorn TL3's. If you do want to use as a switch barrel, it takes 10min to do. I have a 6.5SAUM that uses the mag bolt head, and I've got a 223 Wylde and small bolt head to use for practice.
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I have two Surgeon and two Defiance. Both incredibly nice actions. I honestly couldn't choose one or the other. I don't think you can go wrong. Defiance gives you ability to customize, but Surgeon is in a great configuration out of the box. Defiance runs very tight, so just keep that in mind when it comes to finishing.
I love Defiance (I'm building a rifle on a Deviant right now) but I'm going to build a SwitchLug rifle on a TL3 next time. That's exactly the setup I'd like to have! I'm jealous! Lol!
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I'm running a Bighorn tl-3. Its a dang nice action. I've ran defiance, surgeons, m2008, m2013, templar, and a lot of high end mfg and I feel that the Bighorn has it all in one package. You won't be disappointed.
Xdeano
Xdeano
A buddy of mine can get me a pretty good deal on a surgeon but I like that the bighorn has the interchangeable bolt heads so I could set it up for a trainer rifle and my main match rifle. Question is will the bighorn work with a chassis that has a Rem 700 inlet
Yeah some chassis allow it to drop right in (I think MPA does this) but Cadex and XLR requires minor modifications, XLR offers a Bighorn specific inlet, and Cadex requires you to mod the action I believe.
I personally am having a hard time choosing between Defiance and Bighorn, but I think I'm going to choose Bighorn because I've used a Defiance before, and while I liked it alot, I want to see what else is out there. I hear good things about the TL3. To me, the TL3 is the most "future-proof" of the choices due to its features (the changing bolt heads, the ability to reliably cycle short cases, interchangeable scope rail etc...), strong materials used, reinforced bolt stop, etc...
Other options include the Impact Precision's new 737R, that new Ultimatum Action, and the Cadex Sheepdog/Shepherd.
With places like PVA and others being able to chamber replacement/extra barrels that spin right on to your TL3, what is the advantage of the switchlug setup? Does it prevent you from removing the action from the rifle?
I heard that the handles sometimes break off like the 700s do but I don't know if that's true. I just haven't heard a whole lot about stiller actions but to me they do look well made.
The WTO (West Texas Ordnance) Switchlug allows you to switch barrels out within seconds using an allen wrench, just like an Accuracy International rifle.
Otherwise you would have to take the action out of the stock/chassis, clamp the barrel into a vice, unscrew barrel, re-torque new barrel, loosen vice and place barreled action back into stock/chassis.
Basically it just saves you some time and tools.
All of the above is good advice. Out of all the top actions, you really can't make a bad choice. Personally, I run three Bighorn TL2A's (.223R, 6 x 47 Lapua and .308W). I am not a fan of controlled round feed for the type of shooting I do, so I'm not really looking at the TL3. Don't get me wrong, if you are into CRF, the TL3 is probably the top of the heap.
When I chambered my TL2's, they were all so close dimensionally that for giggles, I moved barrels to adjacent actions. Didn't matter which barrel was on which action, they always headspaced the same. That tells me that Bighorn starts the trunion thread in the exact same spot for every action. I was very, very impressed. When I received my first TL2, I very closely inspected it. It was G/D perfect..
I was originally going to go the switch barrel route, but it ended up being more of a pain in the ass than I thought it was worth. Now, I have three barreled actions that I am moving in and out of a Manners T2A and a KRG W3. That will change too, I think I am going to standardize on the Manners T2A. All actions are Jewell triggered. I may try out some of the newer, higher end triggers, but I need to spend less on optics in order to do so.
When I chambered my TL2's, they were all so close dimensionally that for giggles, I moved barrels to adjacent actions. Didn't matter which barrel was on which action, they always headspaced the same. That tells me that Bighorn starts the trunion thread in the exact same spot for every action. I was very, very impressed. When I received my first TL2, I very closely inspected it. It was G/D perfect..
I was originally going to go the switch barrel route, but it ended up being more of a pain in the ass than I thought it was worth. Now, I have three barreled actions that I am moving in and out of a Manners T2A and a KRG W3. That will change too, I think I am going to standardize on the Manners T2A. All actions are Jewell triggered. I may try out some of the newer, higher end triggers, but I need to spend less on optics in order to do so.
I lined a bunch of TL3's up side by side at SHOT and the thread start was spot on identical for all of them. Like you, I thought that was pretty cool! Interested to see how the CRF function works on my TL3.
I'm thinking of running either a dasher or a 6x47 lapua would the control round feed work better than the push feed
Will you ever be laying on your back on the ground (or in a hole) with your rifle upside down on your chest, working the action to chamber a round from the magazine ? That is what CRF was designed to accomplish. Just my opinion, but I don't need it. I also feel that the large size of the extractor could potentially exert uneven/lateral pressure on the case head, possibly affecting accuracy/consistency. The extractor cut that has to be made in the barrel trunion is not popular with me either.
Having said all that..........The Bighorn TL3 has so many new innovations that it's a really, really nice action. In particular, I really like the bayonet style striker assembly release. No tools needed. Oh, and the built in recoil lug is the shizzle. I really detest screwing around with all the various profiles and thicknesses of the recoil lugs for R700 out there. I probably have a half dozen different lug alignment tools. Bighorn ? No issue.........
Having said all that..........The Bighorn TL3 has so many new innovations that it's a really, really nice action. In particular, I really like the bayonet style striker assembly release. No tools needed. Oh, and the built in recoil lug is the shizzle. I really detest screwing around with all the various profiles and thicknesses of the recoil lugs for R700 out there. I probably have a half dozen different lug alignment tools. Bighorn ? No issue.........
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That's pretty convienent. Would you have to stick with WTO for one of these and send them your action every time you wanted a different barrel made?
I like the way they tackle the crf function. It's all contained in the bolt head, with no extractor cut needed.
Yeah, I will admit that I haven't paid extremely close attention to how they are set up. In looking at pictures just now, it may be that my concerns are unfounded (at least with the TL3). Nice that the barrel doesn't have to have the extractor cut in it.
From my limited bench testing, looks like the extractor will snap over the rim of a round tossed in the port for single feeding as well. I'll be barreling mine in 6cm in the near future.
The swtichlug isn't permanent, but if you're using an action w/ an integral lug they have to drill a couple small permanent holes into the front of your action in order to pin it. They pin it to your receiver with a pair of dowel pins I believe. If you have a non-integral lug action, like a factory 700 or Stiller etc... You can swap between the lugs, doesn't really matter.
But yeah if you have an integral lug, like a Bighorn or Mausingfield, the Switchlug gets placed on top of your integral lug, and to remove it, you just take it off, you'll just have two little holes in the front, can't see these holes when a barrel is on it though.
Do note though, that a barrel made for a switchlug setup and a regular barrel are NOT compatible. They can modify a regular barrel to be used for the switchlug, but after that, the barrel cannot be used without the switchlug.
Now that I'm not sure about how often you'd have to send the action in though, you would probably have to ask them about that. I thiiiiink you don't have to send it in if the cartridge is of the same family, but I'm not sure about say going from .308 to .223. Don't quote me on this though lol, probably best to ask em' yourself about that.
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My Shilen DGR is a danged nice action at any price, for $1000 with a pinned lug and pinned 20MOA rail it is an absolute steal. I set mine up as a Switch Barrel and with my Criterion 6.5x47 barrel, I have shot 2" groups at 500 yards. Definitely worth checking out.
http://www.shilen.com/productsCompleteRifles.html
John
http://www.shilen.com/productsCompleteRifles.html
John
I ended up with a 2nd Bighorn TL3 with the BugNut system on it. I got it because of the wait time on the barreled action I had ordered. While the nut system (it allows you to use standard contoured barrels) might be fine for the non-custom actions... I can't say I'd recommend it for the TL3... with this disclaimer: the wait time can be so long for a shouldered barrel, it might almost seem necessary to go that route.
But the hassle of repeating the headspace and the awkwardness of jacking with an action wrench and barrel wrench at the same time while trying to torque to 70+lbs,... more of a pain than I thought it would be.
But now that Josh (PVA) is moving toward a 4 week turn around, I see no need for the nut system on the TL3. It is a easy 10 minute job to switch shouldered barrels. That said, for a nut system, I think SPR (Greg Young) has the best there is.
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But the hassle of repeating the headspace and the awkwardness of jacking with an action wrench and barrel wrench at the same time while trying to torque to 70+lbs,... more of a pain than I thought it would be.
But now that Josh (PVA) is moving toward a 4 week turn around, I see no need for the nut system on the TL3. It is a easy 10 minute job to switch shouldered barrels. That said, for a nut system, I think SPR (Greg Young) has the best there is.
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For competition i like my Tempest and wouldn't recommend anything other than it less they could somehow integrate a mechanical ejector and make it controlled round feed or interchangeable bolt heads.
For anything else, i like the Mausingfield and Bighorn TL3/SR3. I actually am going to pick up my SR3 this saturday, well dad's SR3 that i got for him. I can't wait to see it.
For anything else, i like the Mausingfield and Bighorn TL3/SR3. I actually am going to pick up my SR3 this saturday, well dad's SR3 that i got for him. I can't wait to see it.
