F T/R Competition First focal plane and second focal plane

[Curt Nemo]

I realize this will seem off topic, but I put it in the F-Class forum because this is the discipline I'm interested in participating in.

Also, forgive me if I make any technical mistakes in asking this question, but what types of shooting/shooters tend to prefer first and second focal planes for scopes.

I understand the difference in the two. Is the first focal plane style primarily for tactical style competition? Is it primarily for use when using the scope as a range-finding tool?

And now the F-Class connection: Should I consider a first focal plane model if I am shopping for a scope for an F-Class rifle? What if I want to assemble a combo rifle for 600 yards and less F-Class and long-range varmint hunting?

Thanks for the advice ahead of time.

I realize this is

 

[gstaylorg]

Re: First focal plane and second focal plane

Although there may be some exceptions, in general the reticles in FFP scopes are quite a bit thicker than would be ideal for F-Class, such that they may obscure part of the target. That doesn't mean you absolutely couldn't use one, but most prefer SFP for that reason. It's also generally easier to find scopes with the higher mag ranges common in F-Class (25X-50X for upper range).

 

[turbo54]

Re: First focal plane and second focal plane

FFP is absolutely not required for Fclass. It works fine with some reticles - such as tge Gen2XR and P4F, but it is certainly no advantage.

FFP is essential for ranging targets and, as a spotter, calling out unit-based corrections quickly and easily - for example: "Come .3 mils down and .2 left!"...

 

[SNAFU_]

Re: First focal plane and second focal plane

word of advice....if you are trying to put together a "dual purpose" rifle....for tactical matches and long range f-class....your rifle will probably not be competitive in either....been there, done that. They are two totally different sports.
F-Class = heavy single shot rifles with long ass bbls and big ass optics w/ 1/8 adjustments
Tactical = lighter weight mag fed rifles with short maneuverable bbls and ranging type reticles, usually under 25x and 1/4 MOA clicks or Mils
just my 2 cents worth

 

[Denys]

Re: First focal plane and second focal plane

As usual, SNAFUBAR is correct. Dual purpose is fine, as long as LR F-class is not one of the purposes and you want to be competitive.

 

[SNAFU_]

Re: First focal plane and second focal plane

Denys agrees with me ? I am marking this on the calendar...might not happen again for a loooong time - lol

 

[223ai]

Re: First focal plane and second focal plane

I'm shooting my 223 at Bayou one of these 600 or 1000 yard weekends, mag fed 82 gr bthp's @2900...ffp, 21x mil/mil. I'm interested to see if a honest to goodness tac rifle is competitive.

Honestly, I'm used to shooting tac matches, not on my belly, holding for wind, and being slammed under time constraints. Rules are pretty simple: show up, be safe, hit or miss, get your points on steel or paper, drink cold beer at the end of the day...no classes of rifles, braked/suppressed/nada all on the line together. These palma/f-class/f-tr/f-tac classes seem to be rather confusing comparatively speaking.

 

[Denys]

Re: First focal plane and second focal plane

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SNAFUBAR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Denys agrees with me ? I am marking this on the calendar...<span style="font-weight: bold">might not happen again for a loooong time - lol </span></div></div>

I agree with that also.

 

[Denys]

Re: First focal plane and second focal plane

2900FPS with maglength 82gr bullets? Wow, did you have to stand on the handle of your press to seat the bullet?

I look forward to seeing you at a 1000 yard match. I will squad you at the extreme end of the line so there will be nobody hurt when you fire that thing.

 

[coulthard_west]

Re: First focal plane and second focal plane

there are those shooters out there who dont care because they use fine crosshairs and they just hold off the target rings or there shot locator.i personally enjoy mp ffp uso for holding for wind changes. i know different strokes for diff folks but i personally zero for wind then hold for changes which could be little to alot. it just makes it a little bit easier if your arent that experienced,(like me).

 

[223ai]

Re: First focal plane and second focal plane

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Denys</div><div class="ubbcode-body">2900FPS with maglength 82gr bullets? Wow, did you have to stand on the handle of your press to seat the bullet?

I look forward to seeing you at a 1000 yard match. I will squad you at the extreme end of the line so there will be nobody hurt when you fire that thing.</div></div>

27" barrel that was long throated and 8208 xbr is a beautiful thing. no pressure other than semi-flat primers....2.490" OAL with a .030 jump.

 

[Tx_Flyboy]

Re: First focal plane and second focal plane

Jpipes,

What magazines are you using that allow a 2.49OAL? This has to be a bolt gun no?

 

[Triple D]

Re: First focal plane and second focal plane

F-class- SFP
Tactical- FFP
Hunting- Either

For a dual purpose (tactical matches/600F class) I would say go FFP. You may not have as fine adjustment for F class, but you'll be somewhat competitive if you can accurately adjust for a minute hold off. For tactical, you'll want the FFP for ranging, and that may be more difficult based on time/speed/calculations etc... with a SFP.

If its solely for 600 F/ F-TR and varmints, I don't see why a SFP wouldn't work great, while saving some money for ammo.

 

[Denys]

Re: First focal plane and second focal plane

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tx_Flyboy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jpipes,

What magazines are you using that allow a 2.49OAL? This has to be a bolt gun no? </div></div>

Beat me to it. So let me just say: +1.

 

[223ai]

Re: First focal plane and second focal plane

Bolt gun, AICS .223 mags, PTG bottom metal. Doped it out today to 1000 yards, and at a DA of 2500 in outside of Hunstville, I was 8.5 mils on the 2 moa plate and 1.0-1.2 mils in a light 5mph wind. At 700, I had 5 shots in a 4 inch group, high and right. I'm not convinced that I can shoot that well again...

Pointing the 82gr BTHP's significantly increased my actual BC, to the point of being surprising of the results. 10 shots over the pvm-21 gave me a 2904 fps average, and the G1 calc equated to .490, spot on.

 

[Denys]

Re: First focal plane and second focal plane

Ok. Now I understand how you can get that velocity with that bullet. I thought you where talking about an AR-15 magazines, the one with which I am familiar. When I was using my F-T/R AR-15 for the 1000 yard game, my 80gr bullets were going right around 2900 out of the 26 inch tube and I use a carrier weight insert to help tame the pressures. That was with 25.5grains of varget and the cartridge was about 2.45 inch COAL.


Since I now only use the .223 for MR, I backed off a full grain of powder and the velocity is 2850. I kept the same COAL, but now it's not such a compressed charge.

I have been told that pointing only increases BC by a couple of percentage points, can you quantify "significantly increased my actual BC" ?

I may have to rethink my reluctance to point my bullets; it's not really the cost of the Whidden die, it's the added work.

 

[223ai]

Re: First focal plane and second focal plane

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Denys</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I have been told that pointing only increases BC by a couple of percentage points, can you quantify "significantly increased my actual BC" ?

I may have to rethink my reluctance to point my bullets; it's not really the cost of the Whidden die, it's the added work.</div></div>

The listed G1, according to the box of bullets is .450, while the Berger website lists it as .444. The bullets are of a very old lot that I bought from a very good friend and well respected shooter, so I cannot speak to whether Berger has changed any of the bullet design. I use "Shooter" as my ballistic app in the field, and there is an option to input Litz tested bullets in the ammo selection. I loaded two bullet profiles, the Litz tested 82gr BT, and the 82gr BT in which I can manipulate variables...most notably BC.

I pointed the bullets right away, and did not do any testing/load development on an unpointed 82gr bthp. I developed my load at 100, looking for the magic pressure/speed/accuracy combo. I settled on 24.4 grains of 8208, LC 2011 brass, wolf SRM primers, and the 82gr bullets at 2.490". It shoots consistently in the .3-.5 range, and 10 shots over the PVM-21 gave me an average velocity of 2904 with a low ES.

Yesterday, using the "litz tested profile" as my baseline my data was as follows (first data point being what Shooter called for, the second data point being what my actual was):

300 - unpointed call - 1.0 mils/pointed actual - 1.0
500 - unpointed call - 2.7/ pointed actual - 2.6
700 - unpointed call - 4.8/ pointed actual - 4.6 (very noticeable here, and this is where I started tweaking my bc adjustments. I had a nice 4 inch group high and right)
900 (DA change to 2500 from 1500-ish)- unpointed call - 7.4/ pointed actual - 7.0
1000 - unpointed call - 9.1/ pointed actual - 8.5 (wind, for reference was shifting quite a bit from 5-10mph, and was swirling quite a bit, but the wind difference between pointed vs non pointed is not quite as significant...differing by only .1 mil at 1k)

The actual BC of the pointed bullet, out of my 27" 6.5 twist Brux, at 2900fps equates to a G1 of .490 perfectly, which surprised me greatly....a gain of approximately 10% over the listed BC of .444. I'll be the first to say that I might have done some calculating wrong, but I highly doubt it. For the type of competing that I regularly take part in, specifically tac matches in the PRS, it is most definitely worth it to point this bullet in this rifle.

 

[Denys]

Re: First focal plane and second focal plane

Looks like you have done your homework. I will add that unlike our self-described Neanderthal friend from the Finger Lakes area, I am a Luddite and I have never taken much to mils; I'm an MOA guy and that's what my scopes are equiped with. I will also add that for F-class, it is my contention that an uncluttered reticle is best. I was using a fine crosshair with 1/8 target dot until I got my latest scope with the NP2DD reticle.

Everything in the scope is MOA based, which also matches the rings on the target. I like a lot of magnification and I almost never play with the windage knob, preferring to hold on target and observe conditions. It makes for faster shooting when conditions allow.

 

[Helmet]

Re: First focal plane and second focal plane

Their is no reason for you to get FFP IMHO. It will just make your crosshairs thicker and cover the target more.

 

[mbrittan]

Re: First focal plane and second focal plane

I have been using FFP for 600yd F-class, and AROS Palma the last two years. I have been doing alright for my skill level, but this year I have started looking into getting a SFP scope for competition use. The thinner reticle, and higher max magnification should be helpful in more accurate shot placement.

 

[Jarhead]

Re: First focal plane and second focal plane

Very complicated Issue.I have won and lost my share of F class matches.I like 1/8 moa for short range in Second plane scopes with any reticle that has lines instead of mildots.Reason holdovers at very long range are much eaiser.I click at short range.Some of the time you might be able to see the xring with a high power magnification and drill the xring.With the hazy humid days and with the running river holding what you think is center x with the mirage isnt.So with high magnification and the mirage can ruin a good score because the running river will kill any chance of finding center x.I have used 1/4 centimeter or 1/4 moa Ffp scopes with great successTo me the real trick is picking a six hold because the increase in magnification increases reticle thickness and again seeing center x ring is tough under certain conditions.Unless your holding on the spotter and dead center x I recommend a six hold or 12 hold or even the number board I have done that and walked it in.Due to my ageing eyes I like first focal to add to the ease of reticle focus.Really fine cross hairs tend to fade with older eyes and heavy mirage besides you will end up dialing back to get a better sight picture.I could go on but I think you understand.

 

[wIg SpLiTtEr]

Re: First focal plane and second focal plane


According to Nightforce, a common misconception is that many shooters believe that the crosshairs in the FFP line of scopes tend to be thicker than they are in SFP scopes. The particular individual I spoke with said, although the crosshairs do magnify with power in FFP, the FFP scope on full power is no larger than the reticle in an SFP scope at any given power. However, it is possible that he was only speaking with refernce to higer end/NF scopes so correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Jarhead]

Re: First focal plane and second focal plane

Yes that is true its a visual thing.With an increase in power comes an increase in reticle cross hairs to the size or proportion of the magnification.In a second plane they figure it out with math and set the reticule lines at a determined value.So the lines stay the same for the magnification and so fine cross hairs are visible at say 50x.Hope I said that clearly, again you can read on it and see why I like first focal with fine lines.Also for some conditions pulling the image right up close for that 3'' x ring at six hundred with a second focal can be quite the advantage.

 

[XTR]

Re: First focal plane and second focal plane

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ShOoTiN2KiLl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
According to Nightforce, a common misconception is that many shooters believe that the crosshairs in the FFP line of scopes tend to be thicker than they are in SFP scopes. The particular individual I spoke with said, although the crosshairs do magnify with power in FFP, the FFP scope on full power is no larger than the reticle in an SFP scope at any given power. However, it is possible that he was only speaking with refernce to higer end/NF scopes so correct me if I'm wrong.

</div></div>

Do a little research for yourself. First look at the reticle subtensions for FFP scopes. They stay the same no matter the magnification. Then look at the subtensions for a 2FP and then calculate the change as you magnify the image. It will vary from scope to scope.

That said, this is truly a pointless discussion if you look at the scopes used on a dedicated F-TR rifle, and since the question has been asked regarding F class shooting we can assume it's a dedicated rifle. Every serious F class rifle I've ever seen sports all the magnification the shooter can afford. Nightforce 8-32 and 12-42s don't come in FFP, neither do the Sightron 10-50s or that 80x March that lets you see the future.

If you are shooting with a 25x scope no mater whether it is FFP or SFP you are shooting at a disadvantage. That is not to say that if yo are a great shooter you can't do well with a FFP 25x scope, I'm sure Danny Biggs would out shoot me if he was using a 16x SS, the nut on the trigger is always the most important part of the equation.

 

[tylerw02]

Re: First focal plane and second focal plane

I've run FFP in F-Class before. I actually prefer it. On sunny mornings, as the air heats up there's lot of mirage. I found myself turning my NF down to 12x-18x or so, rendering the subtensions on the reticle inaccurate.

I'm now running a 5-25x H2CMR reticle and love it. I can turn it down when the mirage comes into play and still use the reticle for wind holds. The reticle is actually thinner than the NF MLR on all but the NF's highest setting (22x). As you turn down, the SFP takes up more of the target and the FFP remains constant.

I use the same rifle/scope for multiple uses, so it isn't a "dedicated" F-Class scope like the guys running the ultra-magnification Nightforce/March/Bushnell/Sightron

I will also disagree with the above post, at least for where I shoot. I've been next to guys running 42x scopes and they end up turning them down most of the time. Rarely do conditions afford super-high magnification. Best bet is show up at a few matches with what you have and see how you can do. You'll quickly learn where your equipment doesn't meet your requirements.

 

[XTR]

Re: First focal plane and second focal plane

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> rendering the subtensions on the reticle inaccurate.

I'm now running a 5-25x H2CMR reticle and love it. I can turn it down when the mirage comes into play and still use the reticle for wind holds....

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...I will also disagree with the above post, at least for where I shoot. I've been next to guys running 42x scopes and they end up turning them down most of the time. Rarely do conditions afford super-high magnification. Best bet is show up at a few matches with what you have and see how you can do. You'll quickly learn where your equipment doesn't meet your requirements. </div></div>

I'll address two portions of the above quoted text.

First, in F class you have a target with rings that are laid out in 1 MOA intervals, why would you ever need to use a reticle to do wind holds? If you hold on the outside of the 9 ring you are holding off 1MOA, if you hold on the edge of the 10 you are holding off .5, why do you need a reticle. (and before we get into the "it's not exact" conversation, 1" of precision in a hold is not significant at 1000 yards, nobody has that wind reading skill) Typically I don't hold outside of the 10 ring. I will fudge inside of the 10 from time to time but in general I dial my corrections and hold center. I know there are those who like to hold everything, that's a preference thing.

If you don't understand the target layout you should try a plot sheet.



Second, regarding mirage, I agree that there are times when i dial down, but the fist relay I've always used all the magnification I have.

 

[Jarhead]

Re: First focal plane and second focal plane

Look in heavy wind at 1000 if your clicking your in trouble.Hold off's are the way to go.With a 308 you'll be holding off at some ranges I have shot at at least 3 to 4 moa maybe more.This can become confusing especially with switching and gusting conditions.Or you could be 1 moa with a light breeze but Id rather hold off than click.Magnification can be a killer, mirage is always present just how much atmospheric aberrations does one want to see.I have used both high fixed and variable in 2nd fp.As stated by xtr dialing down helps you see less and focus on the conditions and scope lines.Shooting center x or what you think is center x with the spotter blocking the center at 1000 with a running river mirage and clouds at a 5''x ring good luck at high power.The S&B company makes different variations in both 1st and 2nd FP for long range. I prefer 1/4 centimeter,I would think it would be less corder than moa and be more accurate when clicking than moa JMHO.

 

[tylerw02]

Re: First focal plane and second focal plane

XTR, have you never needed to hold more than .5 MOA or 1 MOA of wind?

 

[Denys]

Re: First focal plane and second focal plane

He did say that he dials when he gets outside the 10 ring. I hold for everything and eschew the windage knobs. As XTR said, it's a preference thing. Also, at our range the wind can and does change directions or drops of or does whatever it wants to do, dialing can quickly become a nightmare.

 

[XTR]

Re: First focal plane and second focal plane

Like I said, I won't hold that much, I'll dial it. As I said above, I dont hold out side of the 10 ring. Even if you did have to hold off that much I've got 2.5 MOA to the 6 ring.


If it's gusty, switchy then I'm looking for a set of conditions that I can shoot in. The first match I ever shot a popup storm blew over, that's the only time I've ever missed the target completely. It was a good experience for me. Some times you just have to sit up, take a break, and watch for a minute. (the shot I missed did hold way off, the guy next to me held off on the target next to him and hit a 9 on his target)

You've got 33 minutes, you don't have to put them all down range in 5 min. I'm not saying I'm good at it but a lot of this game is knowing when not to shoot, and being able to identify 20 opportunities to get in the middle w/i the allotted time. There is no bonus for speed. I've set up for minutes at a time to wait out a shift. If time gets short, well, I'd have had to crank on the knobs and let them fly, sometimes the dragon wins.

I'm shooting Camp Perry this yr, I expect I'll be cranking on some windage there, I hear that the wind off of the lake can be pretty brisk.


You do what works for you, that's the beauty of this game. There isn't really any "right" answer if you can make it work it's good. One of the first guys I ever shot with held off everything.

Do you hold everything from your no wind zero? or do you get a zero for the match with sighters then hold off for conditions?

 

[Emouse]

Re: First focal plane and second focal plane

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XTR</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> rendering the subtensions on the reticle inaccurate.

I'm now running a 5-25x H2CMR reticle and love it. I can turn it down when the mirage comes into play and still use the reticle for wind holds....

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...I will also disagree with the above post, at least for where I shoot. I've been next to guys running 42x scopes and they end up turning them down most of the time. Rarely do conditions afford super-high magnification. Best bet is show up at a few matches with what you have and see how you can do. You'll quickly learn where your equipment doesn't meet your requirements. </div></div>

I'll address two portions of the above quoted text.

First, in F class you have a target with rings that are laid out in 1 MOA intervals, why would you ever need to use a reticle to do wind holds? If you hold on the outside of the 9 ring you are holding off 1MOA, if you hold on the edge of the 10 you are holding off .5, why do you need a reticle. (and before we get into the "it's not exact" conversation, 1" of precision in a hold is not significant at 1000 yards, nobody has that wind reading skill) Typically I don't hold outside of the 10 ring. I will fudge inside of the 10 from time to time but in general I dial my corrections and hold center. I know there are those who like to hold everything, that's a preference thing.

If you don't understand the target layout you should try a plot sheet.



Second, regarding mirage, I agree that there are times when i dial down, but the fist relay I've always used all the magnification I have. </div></div>

LOL,...most in F Class have abandoned any fundamental skill to practice belly benchrest. Forget how much mag these guys need to get back to real shooting.

 

[Denys]

Re: First focal plane and second focal plane

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XTR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">(snip)
I'm shooting Camp Perry this yr, I expect I'll be cranking on some windage there, I hear that the wind off of the lake can be pretty brisk.


You do what works for you, that's the beauty of this game. There isn't really any "right" answer if you can make it work it's good. One of the first guys I ever shot with held off everything.

Do you hold everything from your no wind zero? or do you get a zero for the match with sighters then hold off for conditions?

</div></div>

It's been almost seven years since I was at Perry, but if I remember correctly, you're shooting into the lake using it as the backstop. That's why they have so many interruptions when boats get into the impact area. The wind will be coming in your face across a series of berms on Viale.

In answer to your question, I hold off virtually all the time from a no-wind zero. About the only time I will make a windage adjustment is if I have to hold on the edge of my target or into the next target. The NP 2DD reticle is very useful for holding off, but it does get weird at times.

You look at the conditions until the last second, take the shot, do a follow through and then look at the conditions on which you were relying to see if there was a change during that time. You need to do that in order to figure out if the hold was proper or if you just screwed up. This is when you end up with something like: 10, X, 10, 8, 10, X.

I found that in fast changing conditions, I could get lost with the windage knobs and I had nothing to reference to. As I said elsewhere, F-class is not sniping; you have to put together 20 shots for record, not just one or two or three and there is no one to help you figure out the conditions and keep track of your adjustments. Two different goals here.

Also, and I know you will simply not believe this, but I have dialed the wrong way a time or two; that's painful.

 

[SNAFU_]

Re: First focal plane and second focal plane

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Denys</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

(snip)
Also, and I know you will simply not believe this, but I have dialed the wrong way a time or two; that's painful. </div></div>

I have witnessed this....it is sad and funny at the same time

 

[Denys]

Re: First focal plane and second focal plane

You youngsters like to make fun of old geezers, don't you?

 

[SNAFU_]

Re: First focal plane and second focal plane

these days, its the only opportunity we have to win against you

 

[Denys]

Re: First focal plane and second focal plane

Not so loud! There are other people here and they might read you.

 

[XTR]

Re: First focal plane and second focal plane

Last match I shot I had put several in a row in the 10 and was sure there was a letoff coming, held off almost to the edge of the 10-ring, I got the let off, and shot an 8. I held off the wrong way. DOH!

 

[Denys]

Re: First focal plane and second focal plane

Yeah, there's always the case where you are holding on the 8 ring at 3:15 o'clock and the wind drops and that's where your shot goes instead of the X.

 

[memilanuk]

Re: First focal plane and second focal plane

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Denys</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
In answer to your question, I hold off virtually all the time from a no-wind zero. About the only time I will make a windage adjustment is if I have to hold on the edge of my target or into the next target. </div></div>

I hold off all the time also. Difference is, I usually dial on a base windage adjustment, and then hold off smaller amounts as needed. Generally, if I'm holding outside the 9-ring... I use the knobs to get back to center. The hold-off marks start getting awful far and few between much further out. Definitely a personal preference thing, though.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I found that in fast changing conditions, I could get lost with the windage knobs and I had nothing to reference to. As I said elsewhere, F-class is not sniping; you have to put together 20 shots for record, not just one or two or three and there is no one to help you figure out the conditions and keep track of your adjustments. Two different goals here.

Also, and I know you will simply not believe this, but I have dialed the wrong way a time or two; that's painful. </div></div>

...which is what plot sheets are for, in my experience. If the conditions are holding and I'm centered up, yeah I'll put the pen down and pound 'em down there while the opportunity exists, but on ranges with big changes in speed and value... I generally find the plot sheet helps prevent the simpler mistakes.

 

[Denys]

Re: First focal plane and second focal plane

You misunderstood. I dialed the windage knob in the wrong direction from what I wanted. The plot sheet does not provide help with that.

 

[coulthard_west]

Re: First focal plane and second focal plane

im kinda in the middle on this one. hteres a lot of scope makes out there whos reticals on ffp are indeed a little thick at max magnifaction, but there are other reticals that arent bad at all. im running a us optic sn3- 3.8-22x44 with a cmg moa retical aqnd at 22 power the retical is still very workable.

this is 22 power at 1000 yards

and here is 22 power at a electrical box just under 100 yards

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArmchairElite</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Their is no reason for you to get FFP IMHO. It will just make your crosshairs thicker and cover the target more.</div></div>

 

[memilanuk]

Re: First focal plane and second focal plane

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Denys</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You misunderstood. I dialed the windage knob in the wrong direction from what I wanted. The plot sheet does not provide help with that. </div></div>

True... but in switching conditions, it does help with keeping track of which direction, how much, and whether it worked or not

 

[Denys]

Re: First focal plane and second focal plane

Exactly, and I did that. But when you put in 1.5 minute left instead of the 1.5 minute right you wanted in the first place. Oh, well. (Age and mileage are my excuses.)

 

[DBailey]

Re: First focal plane and second focal plane

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: s.i.t.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">im kinda in the middle on this one. hteres a lot of scope makes out there whos reticals on ffp are indeed a little thick at max magnifaction, but there are other reticals that arent bad at all. im running a us optic sn3- 3.8-22x44 with a cmg moa retical aqnd at 22 power the retical is still very workable.

this is 22 power at 1000 yards

</div></div>

If you don't mind my asking, what is the name of that rifle range? It looks very familiar.

 

[Denys]

Re: First focal plane and second focal plane

It does look very familiar and I think that picture is a couple years old, at least.

 

[coulthard_west]

Re: First focal plane and second focal plane

thats bayou rifles thaken in 09 when i went to shoot a 1000 yard f class match

 

[Denys]

Re: First focal plane and second focal plane

Ok. However, that looks very much like the view from the 600 yard line for some reason.

 

[coulthard_west]

Re: First focal plane and second focal plane

i can assure you sir that those targets were at 1000 yards. i wouldnt have drove 350 mile to shoot a 600 yard match when i can do that here. now, if a bunch of hide member were gonna get together out there for an 1000 yard f class match i would think about it. it was definetly a fun time. the only thing i didnt like about it was that every shooter is responsible for scoring his own target. that just opens the door for those few extra points one might need.

 

[Denys]

Re: First focal plane and second focal plane

I just find it strange that we do not see the range flags in your picture. Perhaps it's the camera angle.

And there you go again, casting aspersions on people.

 

[coulthard_west]

Re: First focal plane and second focal plane

sorry about that. its just so easy to not be honest when someone isnt behind u taking your score for you. where we shoot down here we run 3 strings instead of 2. so someone is shooting, someone is pulling targets, and someone is scoring. im not saying that it is going to happen, im just saying the oppurtunity is there. please dont take this as me beating down on anyone. im not trying to say the way they do things is wrong. different clubs do things differently and thasts understandable. you get what im saying right.