Is anyone familiar with this story? I've read several articles, but what I've read the orders he gave seem justified in the situation he and his platoon were in. The Government hung him out to dry and sentenced him to 20 years. I am speechless on what has happened to him. Any thoughts?
First Lt. Clint Lorance sentenced 20 years
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Don't understand ?
Working in a combat / free fire zone . What was the evidence that convicted him ???
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Not having been in theater for many years perhaps someone can update me on the SOP for when a commander on the ground makes a call to engage. Does a legal team comb through the after-action-reports or does that only happen when someone in the unit or a civilian file some kind of protest? Was it his CO that looked at the action and said he violated ROE? This looks like a poor kid just trying to do his job and make sure his team rides the plane home sitting upright...
Can someone please remind me why we are there again?
I feel terrible for this man and his family…...
I feel terrible for this man and his family…...
The LY did what he or any other leader in a combat zone would do. He removed the threat of a enemy surveillance unit. You all think we are fine and dandy here, but the fact is we are looking at the pargest attempt to dismantle our freedom, removal of threats to the dismantlers at the highest levels and if we do not do something drastic to stop it, it will mean an end to the American Way and a beginning to the USSA
First Lt. Clint Lorance sentenced 20 years
Seven years ago snipers shot an 8 year old boy who was actively signaling an attack on a convoy. The instructions given prior were: Use your discretion as to whether the shot meets ROEs. ROEs were met. No war crime.
Having civilians in charge and a system of rules for our military is a big part of what makes us a free country. We should not have to apologize for having one of very few militaries that take great pains, even at the expense of risk to its soldiers, to minimize civilian casualties and unnecessary death and suffering in a war zone.
I'm not saying that I was there, nor am I defending the enemy, but I am saying that if you are a soldier (or Marine) you don't have the luxury of deciding which rules to obey.
Switch, the kind of "Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out" that you are proposing is neither an American value nor is it the antidote to socialism.
ROEs bind.
Seven years ago snipers shot an 8 year old boy who was actively signaling an attack on a convoy. The instructions given prior were: Use your discretion as to whether the shot meets ROEs. ROEs were met. No war crime.
Having civilians in charge and a system of rules for our military is a big part of what makes us a free country. We should not have to apologize for having one of very few militaries that take great pains, even at the expense of risk to its soldiers, to minimize civilian casualties and unnecessary death and suffering in a war zone.
I'm not saying that I was there, nor am I defending the enemy, but I am saying that if you are a soldier (or Marine) you don't have the luxury of deciding which rules to obey.
Switch, the kind of "Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out" that you are proposing is neither an American value nor is it the antidote to socialism.
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From what I read, Clint used his discretion to guard against what he felt were enemy spotters. Sometimes lawyers go after good guys just to get a feather in their cap. This might be the case, I hope the publicity helps Clint out.
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Do you know this for certain about the JAG corps, or did you make that up? If it's based on your experience, please share. If the opinion is completely fabricated, please say so. Because I see no advantage here for any military lawyer.
I think that this story is important. However some disclosures have to be made. The author of the story is a ex-republican senator currently employed by Fox News. Contrary to the OP representations there has been alot of news coverage including Army Times, Fox News, ABC News and several Washington Post stories made by real news reporters not by "poli%%%%ans".
From a story in the Fayetteville Observer:
"A 10-member jury of military officers convicted 1st Lt. Clint Lorance on two counts of murder and other charges related to a pattern of threatening and intimidating actions toward Afghans...
Lorance was convicted of committing at least one crime every day he was with his unit at a small outpost in the Kandahar province of Afghanistan last summer.
On June 30, as soon as he arrived at the outpost two days after being tapped as the platoon leader, Lorance threatened to have a man and his family killed if the man moved concertina wire near the outpost or if any soldiers were ever injured on his land.
On July 1, he ordered a marksman in the platoon into a guard tower to harass civilians by shooting close enough to scare them. The soldier who shot said during the court-martial that he eventually refused to fire when Lorance ordered him to shoot near a group of children. Lorance also asked another soldier to file a false report saying villagers shot at the outpost to provoke the attack.
On July 2, Lorance threatened to kill villagers who showed up at the base to complain about the shots into the village the day before. Lorance was acquitted of making a false official statement, a charge related to his allegedly telling his men before a foot patrol that morning to immediately shoot anyone they saw on a motorcycle.
During the July 2 patrol, Lorance ordered a soldier who reported seeing three Afghans on a motorcycle to open fire. The men stopped and got off the motorcycle. Shortly after that, Lorance ordered a soldier manning the turret of a gun truck to shoot them. Two of the men died. The third escaped.
The two soldiers who fired at the Afghans said they never felt threatened and would not have shot had Lorance not ordered it. They said they didn't see any hostile action or hostile intent from the men, a requirement before U.S. forces can fire their weapons in Afghanistan....
Lorance also was convicted of obstruction of justice for working to cover up the murder immediately after it happened, lying about several details of the incident. He reported the bodies couldn't be searched because the family had retrieved them so quickly. Multiple soldiers testified that the bodies already had been searched when Lorance made that report. Cucumbers, scissors and other personal items were found, but no weapons or items such as cellphones or hand-held radios that could have been evidence of insurgent activity. Lorance also said a support helicopter pilot had seen the men on the motorcycle carrying weapons. The pilot, Capt. Katherine McNair, testified Wednesday that she didn't arrive as air support for Lorance's platoon until after the two Afghans were shot."
Army first lieutenant found guilty of murder, other charges for actions in Afghanistan
Because of the "pol%%%%" overtones of this thread I'm not going to add any personal comments.
I agree with Graham.
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